*THE Beta-Alanine, Carnosine Thread, Brought to you by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION*
- 05-20-2007, 02:37 PM
Much like creatine, there are MANY legit health/medical applications for Beta-Alanine that go far and beyond exercise performance.
It's one of the best ingredients you could take for general health, regardless of the exercise performance benefits. We focus on the exercise performance benefits, as that alone is a huge topic that still isn't well understood by many and is most relevant to the the forum crowds we interact with. Other topics on beta-alanine and carnosine that are particularly impressive are on neuroprotection, neurodegenerative diseses, autism..ect.ect
- 05-23-2007, 03:59 PM
Are there any methods that may increase beta-alanine’s ability to increase carnosine levels?
Yes. A recent study showed that a group of subjects taking Beta-Alanine with carbohydrates increased performance gains in half the time of the group taking an equal amount of beta-alanine without carbohydrates. Carbohydrates spike insulin and one of insulin’s effects is to increase amino acid (such as beta-alanine) transport into our cells.
While not research supported as of yet, taking Beta-Alanine pre-workout and post-workout may increase the uptake of Beta-Alanine into our muscles. Amino acid nutrient timing studies have clearly shown, when amino acids are ingested Pre-Workout and Post-Workout, their rate of uptake into our muscle is increased. The improved uptake is largely due to increased blood flow during exercise.
- 05-24-2007, 09:45 PM
What is the prickling I feel when I first take Beta-Alanine?
The prickling - called parathesia - is caused by beta-alanine binding to nerve receptors, activating them and causing them to discharge/fire. Many of these nerves are below the skin, giving a prickling/pins-and-needles sensation. This sensation begins approximately 15-20 minutes after ingesting beta-alanine and usually continues for 1-1.5 hours. The intensity varies depending on dosing, individual sensitivity and potentially from activators of Ca2+ channels, such as caffeine. This sensation, though generally enjoyed, often subsides over a few weeks of continued use. Carbohydrates/food may also blunt the prickling effect from beta-alanine.
05-25-2007, 04:35 PM
If I donít feel the prickling does that mean beta alanine isnít working on me?
The prickling sensation does not occur at all in some individuals, even when taking 4-6 grams of beta-alanine at one time. Do not worry if you are in this group. The prickling is NOT a sign that beta-alanine is working or being absorbed by your muscles and converted to carnosine. If you are feeling nothing, you need not be concerned as it is still increasing your carnosine stores as research has repeatedly shown.
A good example of this phenomenon is when combining carbohydrates with beta-alanine. Not only do carbohydrates blunt much of the prickling sensations, they also increase beta-alanine's performance gains faster than beta-alanine without carbohydrates.
Another good example is comparing studies that measure carnosine concentrations using multiple small 800 mg doses of beta-alanine vs. studies using multiple doses of 1.6 g of beta-alanine. The total daily amount of beta-alanine ingested is similar and the duration of the studies using both dosage strategies is matched up as well. 800 mg is low enough to cause little to no prickling, based off feedback from both research and anecdotal, where as 1.6 g can cause quite a lot. The outcome of both studies showed carnosine concentrations were very similar.
We have an exciting announcement on Monday.
05-30-2007, 01:31 AM
05-30-2007, 08:28 AM
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06-01-2007, 04:02 PM
06-04-2007, 06:01 AM
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Good article, very informative. I'll most likely give your product a try in the next month or two when i finish using my current stash of creatyine.
I'm in London by the way.
06-07-2007, 02:55 PM
Is taking taurine at the same time as beta-alanine going to stop beta-alanine from boosting carnosine and performance levels?
While there is certainly potential for problems when taking these two together (they share the same transporter into tissues), it hasnít yet been supported in the research to any level of significance. In fact, a recent study by Dr. Harris, showed that the increase in muscle carnosine with beta-alanine was NOT reduced when taurine was taken along with it. Also, everyone bare in mind, CARN is concentrated much higher in Type 2 muscle fibers, while taurine is in much higher concentrations in Type 1. further limiting their competition issues related to muscle performance.
We could get into the biochemistry of why taking taurine with beta-alanine may not seem like a good idea but we have a more simple and conclusive explanation just in case you wanted more proof to support Dr. Harrisís study. Since there is a group of studies that used either beta-alanine by itself or beta-alanine with taurine, we examined them to determine if there were any differences in the resulting carnosine concentrations. While more research is always needed, there are quite a few beta-alanine vs. beta-alanine plus taurine studies, and their outcomes are all the same. There is little to no difference in carnosine concentrations. In other words, taurine does not inhibit beta-alanine from being absorbed to any level of significance, otherwise carnosine levels would have been lower in the beta-alanine plus taurine studies.
That concludes our summary, please feel free to jump in with any questions. We will continuously update this thread as more research and information comes out on Beta-Alanine
07-19-2007, 01:26 PM
Rationale for taking beta-alanine pre&postWO timing.
While, we have explained within this thread and others, why we suggest to take advantage of the pre&postWO windows on training days whenever possible. Here is a more detailed explanation from a post of mine in a recent thread, as many are giving advice that there is no reason/benefit in taking beta-alanine, pre&postWO. They are wrong.
We do not suggest pre&postWO beta-alanine ingestion for acute performance benefits, but for the purpose of increased delivery and increased intramuscular uptake. That's not to say, there aren't possible acute benefits from pre&postWO timing of BA, but at this time there is no support one way or the other. There is however amino acid pre&postWO nutrient timing studies, that can be used as support for the rationale of suggesting BA taken pre&postWO.
The reasoning on why we have always suggested taking BA, Pre&PostWO, is actually very simple and it should make sense to anyone familiar with nutrient timing amino acid or creatine studies. In a nutshell, our body's greatly increase the delivery and uptake of amino acids/creatine ect, when taken Pre/PostWO, largely due to exercise induced increased blood flow . Beta-Alanine is an amino acid and its rate of uptake is HIGHLY likely to be increased when taken pre/postWO. We will likely also see some other benefits when taking BA pre/post, but that's for another time.
You don't have to take beta-alanine, pre/postWO(especially if you find the prickling bothersome during your workout) and the most important thing is to take it everyday, regardless of timing. But when ever possible, we will always suggest, you take advantage of the pre&postWO windows of opportunity for increased BA uptake and reap the benefits from BA as fast as possible.
We have also, always recommended BA be taken with carbs when ever possible for both uptake reasons as well as blunting the prickling sensation if you find it bothersome. The reason is, a beta-alanine study, comparing beta-alanine to beta-alanine+carbs, showed the group using Beta-alanine+carbs, had equivalent performance gains in HALF the time as the beta-alanine only group in the first month. This quite significant, especially for someone looking to get the benefits from beta-alanine as fast as possible.
Neither of these recommendations are musts, but taking advantage of the combination, should greatly increase BA uptake and bring on the performance benefits much faster, especially in the first month.
None of us, have to take advantage of nutrient timing science, be it with creatine,beta-alanine, protein/carb shakes ect. But if you are looking to maximize most of your supplements absorption and get the positive effects as fast as possible, I can't see any reason why you wouldn't want to take advantage of these windows of opportunity.
07-24-2007, 11:30 PM
One article is about pre-workout nutrition, related to central fatigue. The other is.....wait for it, you're never going to guess. Beta-Alanine!!
It's a pretty cool article, as it has a section that specifically speak about the study done on our beta-alanine product, IntraXCell.
08-23-2007, 03:23 PM
We are pleased to announce, two more articles from us are in the September issue of Muscular Development on newsstands NOW! I have scanned just the first page of our beta-alanine article and as usual will post the full articles once the issue is off the newsstands.
Thank you for your support and keep an eye out for more articles from us in other major bb/fitness magazine throughout the course of this year.
08-23-2007, 03:31 PM
I figured I would show another page of our three page beta-alanine article, where it briefly mentions the IntraXCell study. Expect to see quite a bit more press on this study.
08-24-2007, 12:29 AM
Have you (or any other subscribers) any information on the occurance of allergys with supplementation of BA? I have never had a serious allergy until this week. Had a serious skin rash that started in my feet and moved up from there. There was swelling, burning, itchy, red bumps (like hives). Couldn't walk too well for 4 days. The doc has me on an anti-histime and cortisone cream to get things back to normal. Given BA increases histidine which is the source for histimine, I now wonder if there is a cause and effect with the supplemention and the allergy I am experiencing. I started supplementing BA 3 only weeks ago at 6-8 gms per day divided in two doses pre and post workout. No other changes in diet or anything else I can think of that may have triggered the allergy.
Any comments or experiences on the subject would be appreciated.
08-27-2007, 04:58 PM
Let me start by saying, there is no data to support that ba could cuase an allergy but I could see their being a chance is could potentiate an underlying or current allergy. Mainly this could occur through beta-alanine possibly increasing histamine release, predominantly through two ways. 1. Its ability to activate nerves that release histamine 2. Beta-alanine's ability to boost carnosine. When carnosine is broken down into beta-alanine and histidine, the histidine component can then be further broken down into histamine.
On the other side, beta-alanine can combine with histamine to form a carnosine analog called carcinine and lesson the activity of histamine(a good thing).
Since you asked and for what it's is worth. There has been NO anecdotal feedback with people telling us they have had a problem of this nature, since IntraXCell was launched back in 2006.
Lastly, if you decide to stay on ba, I would lower your dose into the 4-5g range max, as the highest dose used in the research is 6.4g's. And it's very obvious when looking at ending carnosine concentrations, even going this high only increases carnosine concentrations faster in the first month than 3.2g and just barley more so then the 4-5g range. By month 2-3 and onward, no difference when compared to the 4-5g range. We suggest people look at the 6.4g dose as a OPTIONAL 2 week loading phase, not as a optimal maintenance dose beyond the first month.
I will continue to look further for more information, but for now, all I can say is, I wouldn't rule out the potential that beta-alanine could aggravate individuals with existing allergies.
08-27-2007, 11:45 PM
09-14-2007, 12:00 AM
09-14-2007, 09:25 PM
Excellent thread. I've got some BA on the way. Not yours but just some bulk stuff. I'm looking forward to trying it out along with citrulline malate. It's probably going to taste nasty but that's why I have a capping machine
09-14-2007, 10:53 PM
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Beta-Alanine in bulk is flavourless, atleast what I have. Also cit. malate doesn't taste too bad
09-15-2007, 05:01 PM
can beta alaine be taken with turine,creatine and Citrulline Malate at same time?
09-15-2007, 05:02 PM
09-15-2007, 05:19 PM
thank you sir.
09-29-2007, 03:01 PM
I just received my electronic version of Muscular Development(Nov pg190) and saw another one of our beta-alanine articles published. They actually forgot my name on the article this time, as Anssi and I collaborated on this write-up..lol But none the less, I wrote the beta-alanine section and Anssi wrote the leucine section.
This article is a head on comparison with creatine, showing their similarities and differences. As you all know, beta-alanine consistently gets touted as the next creatine for obvious reasons.
The point of this article was to show why it is often touted this way, but at the same time, also explain how this statement can be misleading if the details are not fully understood. Hopefully the intention of this article is understood and the reader realizes that beta-alanine DOES NOT replace creatine. At the same time getting the point across, that they do share many parallels, which brings about the comparison.
You all know I love beta-alanine, but I also have huge respect for creatine and do not want beta-alanine to be known as a replacement to creatine. Not only would it be inaccurate to market beta-alanine this way, it could also stop people from properly understanding how beta-alanine works and how different it is from creatine!
Creatine is one of my all time favorite supplements and NOTHING can ever replace it. I believe both creatine and beta-alanine to be the two most effective ergogenic aids in sports nutrition by FAR.
Beta-Alanine & PreWO articles in Muscular Development!
Our beta-alanine article- science meets real world results, in Muscular Development-
Thank you for your support and we have another VERY different article that should be out in MD next month!
12-12-2007, 09:43 PM
i jus tpicked up some beta alanine to take with dymatize expand how ever i didn't fully go through this thread before i purchased my BA. The vitamin shoppe i went to didn't not carry the particualr brand discussed through out these threads. The main diffrence is the addition of 300 mg of L-Histidine to each 1500mg of BA capsule.
Will this hinder the effects of this BA. Keep in myind i will be taking two of these pills twice a day . just curious ???
12-12-2007, 11:42 PM
12-13-2007, 04:29 PM
The more important question is , how much beta-alanine a day are you getting from this product?
Lastly, you can always request your local VitaminShoppe to carry our products. VitaminWorld already do and actually sell them for a great price.
12-14-2007, 02:21 PM
thank your for your reply its nice to see a new comer is able to get a response from a seemingly well educated individual on this subject .
Each pill is 1500mg BA and 300 L-Histidine i take four pills a day
Two pills 30 min before i work out and then two 6 hours later as directed by the maker. so i get a total of 6g a day of ba and 1200mg of hitidine a day. wasn't a bad price 24.99 but I defenately will try your product the next go round. and possibly tell you the difference i have noticed.
12-14-2007, 02:26 PM
12-14-2007, 02:27 PM
12-15-2007, 07:48 AM
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Some awesome info here. Looks like I have found something to take with my Xtend. This will be in my next order at NP fo sho. Question though. I have tried creatine several times in the past and I have come to the conclusion that I do not respond to it like most others do (at all). Have you ever heard of BA non responders?
12-15-2007, 08:06 AM
01-04-2008, 09:46 PM
i think there was a mix up by me reading the lable, but i was taking muscle blast elite series which had 1500 mg per "serving" which was two pills and suggested use was 2 servings a day. i have now started taking H+ blocker though am not sure if i really enjoy the product. Could you shin some light on the differences between H+ Blocker and intraxcell ??
i am ordering the intraxcell this time around but i was curious if i could take it with noxplode ? i know the studies show it is safe to take with creatine. So far with my experince with creatine cell mass and noxplode together have probably worked the best.
though this cycle of expand i am using now for the first time is doing wonders.
Any who, i was considering taking yoru product with the two BSN products noxplode and cellmass because these products work well( and work well for mein the past) have one several awards for best muscle building product and best creatine at least on bodybuilding.com
02-21-2008, 02:33 AM
In this months issue of MD(March, pg 178), we collaborated in witting a review of a recent beta-alanine research study. Additionally, the IntraXCell study is mentioned, as both our study and the one reviewed both used 400m sprints as one of the testing protocols.
02-21-2008, 12:25 PM
Concerning Beta Alanine, Lactic Acid, and HGH
This discussion is taken from another forum and may be of interest.
02-21-2008, 01:56 PM
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02-21-2008, 02:09 PM
02-21-2008, 02:13 PM
02-25-2008, 08:49 PM
I just picked up the most recent issue of Muscular Development(Feb issue, pg 190) and was pleasantly surprised to see a picture of IntraXCell used in the supplement performance section, titled:the best of supplement research". There are a couple paragraphs about beta-alanine, with an image of IntraXCell next to it. It also appears, they used the first paragraph from a previous MD article I wrote!
02-25-2008, 11:57 PM
Adding a little from a previous post
There are two so called potential issues with beta-alanine and taurine. These two so called potential issues are the root cause of the confusion spread on the forums and even within some magazines. Of course supplement manufacturers(NOT AEN) have continued to perpetrate this myth as well
These so called potential issues are as follows:
1. Decreased beta-alanine uptake due to both beta-alanine and taurine sharing the same transporter. The rational is that competition for same transporter will decrease absorption and beta-alanine's ability to increase intramuscular CARN concentrations.
2. Taurine loss from the body,as beta-alanine causes blood plasma taurine levels to elevate. Many people jump all over a few IRRELEVANTLY dosed ANIMAL studies.
Anyway, here are the answers:
Potential so called issue #1:
The supposed taurine competition issue is also NOT an issue, as clearly shown in the research from the pioneer of beta-alanine performance research, Dr.Harris. He states in his most recent study that the increase in muscle CARN with B-Alanine supplementation did not appear to be reduced by the presence of taurine. If you do not believe his word on beta-alanine, I don't know what to tell you, as he is THE worlds authority on beta-alanine research related to exercise performance. Check MD article for our full answer. In a nutshell, intramuscular CARN concentrations are no different when supplementing with Beta-alanine alone or adding taurine into the mix as the research CLEARLY shows.
Potential so called issue #2:
This issue gained popularity on the forums based on some rat and cat studies that showed beta-alanine decreased the taurine content in the myocardium by half. These studies were using doses that are over 100 times higher than the highest Beta-alanine studies of 6.4 grams a day. These rat studies aren't even relevant to how we use Beta-Alanine in terms of dosage.
Beta-alanine does cause taurine levels to increase in the blood plasma, leading some to believe that we are actually losing alot of it from the body through excreting it in the urine. But from multiple studies now, the researchers have shown the taurine loss in the urine, is NOT at any level of significance.
Dr.Tallon who you may have seen posting in within our bb.com thread, put it into context quite nicely, when he said a glass of milk would replace the amount of taurine loss shown in the beta-alanine studies. He has his PhD in carnosine metabolism and his words on the topic hold alot of weight.
02-28-2008, 10:50 AM
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I took beta alanine (1.5g) before training last week and i can honestly say i've never felt anything like it!
The prickly sensation was almost unbearable (at times) and i have to admit it scared me because i was unaware that it did this.
But getting past that, the energy i had in the gym was unreal. I ploughed through 18 sets comfortably. I felt i could have done the workout once again straight after.
I suppose the tingling is dose related and everybody reacts slightly different to it but if you can live with it, the energy you will have in the gym will make it so worthwhile.
I actually used CNP 'pro-slam' which is a pre workout formula which contains 27g of protein, 1.5 of BA aswel as taurine.
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