Pea and Hordenine together, Safe, semi concerned, concerned

  1. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Pea and Hordenine together, Safe, semi concerned, concerned


    First Off, would like to say if it sounds like Im frustrated its because I am. The reason is conflicting informations has entered my mind about this compound and whenever this happens I have questions.=) Im being realistic because we all want the best for our bodies , correct?

    Is Pea and Hordenine safe to use?

    Ive read in the recent Iron Man(with the huge Italian bodybuilder on the front with two girls kneeling touching his legs)No it wasnt an article pimping a product it was natural compunds that assist in weightloss. The article says, Pea is a good fat-burner compound. In the article on Pea it also said not to use with a MOI, antidepressant.

    Is hordinene an anti-depressant? I havnt seen any research that says it is but I havnt really gone after this one because Ive been busy. anyone, so maybe you can save me some research.

    A few facts about Hordenine

    Bodybuilding.com - Hordenine Information and Product Listing! Hordenine FAQ!

    so it appears Hordenine alone is safe.(Of course youll want to cycle off of it as it releases Norephin. and use something else. I think its a good idea to use one main Stim at a time, but thats just me..lets get to the main point)

    We all know what PEA is. The love molecule.Makes you feel good. The chemical when your in love or eat choclate.

    Without an MOA INHIBITOR Pea doesnt work nearly as well.

    Now sure You can use Pea/Hord on occasion and be safe; however, who is Interested if you can use it for say a month strait with being safe?

    Raises Hand

    Im a curious person and want to know how safe the body is with this combo and also if it has any long-term effects.

    If I do use this combo Will be using it for a fatloss stack ..cutting down ...cutting farther than Ive ever cut.IMHO this combo is for serious cutting only.

    so Summerizing Is The Pea/Hord Combo safe to use, ad possibly have positive effects for one month or possibly longer term use?

  2. Registered User
    Zombie's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    31
    Posts
    5,584
    Rep Power
    2921
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    42.01%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    well i took 1 pea/hord cap and 3 leviathan with 400gm raspberry ketones and 900mg beta alanine for the first time today and im still alive so i guess is safe.


    talking serious now, im really intrested on looking at the fat burning effects of pea and and leviathan fisrt time i used them also im new to beta alanine
    maybe i turn this question/suggestion thread in to a log Leviathan +Pea-Hordenine +RK
  3. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Thanks for your input. Looking for everything available. Research and test subjects. brain scans if possible or chemical tests on dopamine levels before, during, and after use. Everything available on this subject
    •   
       

  4. Registered User
    Zombie's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Age
    31
    Posts
    5,584
    Rep Power
    2921
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    42.01%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting ProPosting Authority

    i was looking info on those subjects also but i figured out that the best thing i could do is experiment on me, since not everybody respond the same. i have noticed that i build a tolerance to some supps really fast. tomorrow im going to start with that dosage posted on my thread, im going to put some stats and start some kind of log
  5. Advanced Member
    djremix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    39
    Posts
    502
    Rep Power
    2849
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    31.61%

    first time i saw hordenine in any appreciable amounts was in Avant Labs' H.E.A.T a great mood lifter and decent non stim fatburner.

    as i remember it, hordenine did not interact with anything like regular maoi's its a lot less powerfull than selegiline. no cheese effect, no noticable overstimulation when combined with a whole host of other stims, even at 3 times heat dosage.

    mood lift was wicked though. happy times

    so if anything, id GUESS that hordenine's maoi effects are localised in the stomach at regular dosings.

    take it slow and dont mix too many things...just in case
  6. Advanced Member
    djremix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    39
    Posts
    502
    Rep Power
    2849
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    31.61%

    well what do you know. my pea/hord just arrived. took a pill late last night after my WO shake.

    nada... even after 3 fyre pills thoughout the day.

    ill try again on an empty stomach today and see.

  7. New Member
    RexGrandis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    219
    Rep Power
    342
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    3.35%

    I don't think Hordenine is much of a MAO inhibitor, not much at all really.
  8. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Phenylethylamine & Hordenine
    Phenylethylamine (PEA) exerts a stimulatory effect in the brain through its effect on the beta-adrenergic and dopamine receptors. Through these mechanisms, PEA not only increases attention and activity but can also elevate mood significantly. And of course, significantly promote the use of fat for fuel.

    Hordenine is included in order to make PEA orally bioavailable. It does this by inhibiting the enzyme MAO-B, and as consequence, dopamine activity is also prolonged. During dieting, dopamine is of particular importance because it is generally theorized to be the body’s means of communication between the brain and the anti-starvation hormone Leptin. Additionally, dopamine is also associated with nutrient partitioning, mood, appetite and a whole host of other biochemical functions.

    so what this is saying is that when your cutting to an extreme, like low or sub body fat levels that dopamine is reduced and Pea/Hordenine can be benifical.
  9. Advanced Member
    djremix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    39
    Posts
    502
    Rep Power
    2849
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    31.61%

    Quote Originally Posted by djremix View Post
    well what do you know. my pea/hord just arrived. took a pill late last night after my WO shake.

    nada... even after 3 fyre pills thoughout the day.

    ill try again on an empty stomach today and see.

    baaah, empty stomach and two pills - nothing
    today, empty stomach, 2 pills and 1gram dl-phenelanine(sp?) and extra pea and still nothing.

    i am, a little less hungry but wtf?
  10. Registered User
    Rivet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,700
    Rep Power
    969
    Level
    30
    Lv. Percent
    43.8%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    2 caps should be WAY more then enough if its going to "hit" you.
    I guess there is a lot of non-responders out there. That or perhaps people expect much more then it can deliver? For me its not stim but a mild mood booster. I feel it more when I'm doing something I like (hearing a song I really like etc). I guess I'm going to add these liquibolic caps to my next order to compare them to what I'm used to.
  11. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet View Post
    2 caps should be WAY more then enough if its going to "hit" you.
    I guess there is a lot of non-responders out there. That or perhaps people expect much more then it can deliver? For me its not stim but a mild mood booster. I feel it more when I'm doing something I like (hearing a song I really like etc). I guess I'm going to add these liquibolic caps to my next order to compare them to what I'm used to.
    I have Pea/Hord , Pea from Np and Hord Custom, right now I might do the next eight weeks of my cut with the goal from going to thirteen percent to ten percent. ILL use nothing else but these two.(might use some Clear edge , but perhaps save it for after Pea/Hord) This is just speculation, if any research comes up that says something I think is to be researched more this stack halts. How long did you do basic cuts Rivet?
  12. Registered User
    Rivet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,700
    Rep Power
    969
    Level
    30
    Lv. Percent
    43.8%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    I have Pea/Hord , Pea from Np and Hord Custom, right now I might do the next eight weeks of my cut with the goal from going to thirteen percent to ten percent. ILL use nothing else but these two.(might use some Clear edge , but perhaps save it for after Pea/Hord) This is just speculation, if any research comes up that says something I think is to be researched more this stack halts. How long did you do basic cuts Rivet?
    Basic cuts straight? Hmmm quite a few months. I still use it just not quite as much.
  13. Recovering AXoholic
    thesinner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    29
    Posts
    10,063
    Rep Power
    11892
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    27.17%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    I don't believe hordenine holds a candle to prescription monoamine oxidase inhibitors like selegiline. Yeah, hordenine has some MAO-B inhibition properties, but nothing to be concerned about.

    Hordenine is weak enough to lengthen PEA's already short half-life. Prescription MAOI's are too strong, and will cause your body not to metabolize PEA quick enough.

    Think of it like when a dog eats chocolate. Dogs do not have the same body chemistry as humans, and cannot remove theobromine from their system nearly as fast. Because of this, they can get what's called 'chocolate poisoning'. In essence, prescription MAOI's will greatly decrease the amount of PEA your body can safely tolerate.
    Athletic Xtreme Rep
    Bob@athleticxtreme.com
    IFFI
    Ask me about the Athletic Xtreme Product Line
  14. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    yeah the plan is 100 pea, 50 hordenine per day. Somedays might go higher on pea but generally the recommended dose

    Pharm Pharmacol. 1989 Jun;41(6):421-3.
    Deamination of hordenine by monoamine oxidase and its action on vasa deferentia of the rat.

    Barwell CJ, Basma AN, Lafi MA, Leake LD.

    School of Pharmacy, Portsmouth Polytechnic, Hampshire, UK.

    The selectivity of the naturally occurring amine, N,N-dimethyltyramine (hordenine) for monoamine oxidase (MAO) and its action upon isolated vasa deferentia of the rat was investigated. Hordenine was deaminated by rat liver MAO with a Michaelis constant of 479 microM and maximum velocity of 128 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 compared with 144 microM and 482 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 for tyramine. Studies, with selective irreversible inhibitors of MAO, showed that hordenine was a highly selective substrate for MAO-B of liver and that it was not deaminated by the MAO-A of intestinal epithelium. In contrast to tyramine, hordenine did not produce contractions of isolated vasa deferentia. However, 25 microM hordenine potentiated contractile responses of vasa, from control animals, to submaximal doses of noradrenaline and inhibited responses to tyramine. It did not alter responses, to noradrenaline, of vasa denervated by chronic pretreatment of rats with guanethidine. Therefore, it appears that hordenine acted as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake, in isolated vasa deferentia. These results indicate that dietary-hordenine is unlikely to be deaminated by intestinal MAO as this is predominantly MAO-A. Consequently, it is likely to be absorbed and could affect the sympathetic nervous system, by virtue of its action as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake.



    Hordenine is obviously not a very well reserched compound, as their are only 33 studies overall that are indexed in pubmed. Selegiline (Deprenyl) is a much more thoroughly researched compound with known MAO-B inhibiting properties

    Deprenyl (also known as Jumex, Juprenil, Selegiline) is a derivative of the amino acid L-Phenylalanine. It is a prescription drug wordwide for over a dozen health conditions and is used in pet medicine.

    Deprenyl Wite-up(brand name Juprenil) 5 mg 50 tablets 1 Box

    -Neurochemical Effects-

    - Inhibits the human brain enzyme MAO-B. MAO B increases with age and breaks down the vitally important neurotransmitter Dopamine. (Boosts Dopamine levels, Mood/Mental Energy/Motivation Enhancer)

    -Boosts PhenylEthylAmine levels 1300-3500%. (Helps maintain focus, concentration, alertness and effortful attention.)

    - Has Potent NeuroAntioxidant & NeuroProtective effects by raising Brain SOD levels.

    -Dose-

    1-40 mg daily with meals.

    -When can I feel it?-

    Works within an hour to a few days.

    -What works best with it?-

    Piracetam, Oxiracetam, Pea,Hydergine, Centrophenoxine, L-Huperzine A, Idebenone, Pyritinol,

    So In conclusion, Deprenyl could work better with Pea since is it boosts PhenylEthylAmine levels 1300-3500%. Right now though I have some Hordenine to use.

    has anyone took both for a significant amount of time and can compare clearness of effects?
  15. New Member
    RexGrandis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    219
    Rep Power
    342
    Level
    13
    Lv. Percent
    3.35%

    Hmm, don't like where you're going with this, MAO inhibitors are very dangerous, to the point of killing you. Doctor's only prescribe them as a last effort against depression.
  16. rollin' on dubs!
    WannaBeHulk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  178 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    30
    Posts
    923
    Rep Power
    571
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    53.33%

    Quote Originally Posted by RexGrandis View Post
    Hmm, don't like where you're going with this, MAO inhibitors are very dangerous, to the point of killing you. Doctor's only prescribe them as a last effort against depression.
    i have a similar stance on the issue.

    smeton, we have discussed this before so you know why i wouldnt condone its use everyday. its hard to justify changing the bodies natural biochemistry to allow a substance to cross the BBB. every body function serves a purpose and monamine oxidase plays its role to break down some harmful substances so it doesnt reach the brain.
  17. rollin' on dubs!
    WannaBeHulk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  178 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    30
    Posts
    923
    Rep Power
    571
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    53.33%

    this might help...

    1: J Neurochem. 1996 Oct;67(4):1532-9.Click here to read Links
    Effect of long-term treatment with selective monoamine oxidase A and B inhibitors on dopamine release from rat striatum in vivo.

    * Lamensdorf I,
    * Youdim MB,
    * Finberg JP.

    Pharmacology Unit, Rappaport Faculty of Medicine, Technion, Haifa, Israel.

    Acute inhibition of monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B) in the rat does not affect striatal dopamine (DA) metabolism, but chronic MAO-B inhibition with deprenyl has been reported to increase the release of striatal DA, as shown using in vitro techniques. To see whether chronic MAO-B inhibition also causes an increase in DA release in vivo, rats were treated for 21 days with either deprenyl (0.25 mg/kg), TVP-1012 [R(+)-N-propargyl-1-aminoindan mesylate; 0.05 mg/kg], an irreversible inhibitor of MAO-B that is not metabolized to amphetamines, clorgyline (0.2 mg/kg), or saline (all doses once daily by subcutaneous injection). Concentric 4-mm-long microdialysis probes were implanted in the left striatum under pentobarbital/chloral hydrate anesthesia on day 21, and microdialysate DA, 3,4, dihydroxyacetic acid (DOPAC), and 4-hydroxy-3-methoxyphenyl acetic acid (HVA) were determined in the conscious animals on day 22. Baseline levels of DA were as follows: control, 0.34 +/- 0.04 (n = 13); deprenyl, 0.88 +/- 0.10 (n = 8, p < 0.01); TVP-1012, 0.94 +/- 0.20 (n = 7, p < 0.01); clorgyline, 0.90 +/- 0.12 (n = 7, p < 0.01) pmol/20 min. Levels of DOPAC and HVA were reduced only in the clorgyline-treated group. The incremental release of DA induced by depolarizing concentration of K+ (100 mM bolus of KCl in perfusate) was significantly greater in clorgyline- and deprenyl-treated rats and elevated (nonsignificantly) in TVP-1012-treated rats. Chronic treatment with the MAO-B inhibitors reduced striatal MAO-B activity by 90%, with 15% (TVP-1012) or 40% (deprenyl) inhibition of MAO-A. Clorgyline inhibited MAO-A by 95%, with 30% inhibition of MAO-B. A single dose of deprenyl (0.25 mg/kg, 24 h before microdialysis) had no significant effect on striatal efflux of DA. The results show that DA metabolism was reduced only by clorgyline, whereas neuronal release of DA was enhanced by both MAO-A and MAO-B inhibitors on chronic administration. The enhanced DA release by chronic MAO-B inhibition does not appear to be dependent on production of amphetamine-like metabolites of the inhibitor. Possible mechanisms for the release-enhancing effect of the MAO-B inhibitors include elevation in levels of endogenous beta-phenylethylamine, or an inhibition of DA reuptake, which develops only on chronic administration, because both deprenyl and TVP-1012 have only very weak effects on amine uptake in acute experiments.

    PMID: 8858937 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    so, it looks like long term use of an MAO-B inhibitor enhances DA release and acts as an dopamine reuptake inhibitor. from what i understand, cocaine and meth act in this pattern so abuse potential is high. a DA reuptake inhibitor that also inhibits DA release have slight stimulation effects and little abuse potential (sounds more like PEA/MAOI-B effects to me).

    hmm, that doesnt sound right. i think i either misinterpreted the study or have my facts reversed. ive been known to do that

    any help?
  18. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Hordenine
    The Monoamine Oxidases, MAO-A and MAO-B, are two enzymes principally involved in catalyzing the oxidation (metabolism) of the monoamines. MAO-A is commonly thought to break down the neurochemicals serotonin and norepinephrine while MAO-B generally catalyzes the break down of dopamine and PEA (as stated above). Hordenine is included in with PEA due to its ability to inhibit MAO-B and thereby make PEA orally bioavailable thus allowing all the intriguing effects of stimulation and mood enhancement mentioned above to become a reality. As a consequence of hordenine’s MAO-B inhibition, dopamine activity is also prolonged. During dieting, dopamine is of particular importance because it is generally theorized to be the body’s means of communication between the brain and the anti-starvation hormone Leptin. Additionally, dopamine is also associated with nutrient partitioning (where the calories you consume go), mood, appetite and a whole host of other biochemical functions. Unfortunately, when you diet, dopamine also happens to decrease quite significantly, thus some means of ensuring adequate dopamine output should be paramount (hint: hordenine helps).

    As if its efficacy in increasing PEA availability and dopaminergic tone weren’t enough, there is also credible evidence that hordenine not only “liberates” norepinephrine, but also inhibits its metabolism, leading to increased stimulation. As many know, norepinephrine and epinephrine collectively form the catecholamines – the means through which the popular supplement ephedrine indirectly exerts its stimulatory effect on the central nervous system and improves lipolysis (fat burning).

    so from my understanding Hordenine inhibits Mao B at low rate, taking in high doses it inhibits both. it is not near as potent as Selegiline. Actually I would do Selegiline (Deprenyl) because I think it is safe and studies show it expands life-span. Ive been researching this compounds the last month or so. So In not going to come to a conclusion because more research could be done on Hordenine but it looks weak enough to get an effect but not no way strong as Selegiline (Deprenyl).

    As I said numberous time I only recommend this when you are doing a serious cut, whatever a serious cut means to you, because dopamine goes down , and goes down drastically when your seriously cutting.
  19. New Member
    TRDE59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    36
    Rep Power
    113
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    80.85%

    Yeah, I'm seriously considering deprenyl. Pea + hord is cool, but it still doesn't prolong the effects to any degree to make it worth it. pea lasts about 30 minutes without anything else, but it lasts about 90 minutes with hordenine. And it's stronger. It's better than 30, but still not enough for my liking. To me, since the effects are only noticable for an hour and a half, I wouldn't think it would be a very potent fat burning stack. Especially since I'm using it while bulking and I'm not having problems gaining weight. (or, at least I wouldn't be if school weren't such a ***** ). That said, it would work very well in addition to some other fat burners.

    It's relatively cheap, though, so that's nice. Weird thing about PEA, though, is that it's not much of a stimulant at all, at least for me. And I've dosed up to 500 g. Great mood elevation (for the 90 minutes that it worked) but actually, it chills me out. No "stim" effects for me, although I am more alert.

    It is fantastic for libido, however. I mean, it doesn't make you think about sex or give you random boners, but if you see a hot girl or look at porn, you get turned on a hell of a lot more for some reason. Maybe just cause you're in a good mood

    Anyway,

    I have ADD, and I'm thinking deprenyl would help me. Using amphetamines/methylphenidate every day is no way to go through life. It dehydrates me and makes it nearly impossible to gain weight (not to mention the worst limp **** syndrome of your life), so I rarely use it unless I have important school work to do. Thus, leaving me with nothing except my slow-processing, unable to concentrate brain on the days that I don't use them, which is most of the time.

    I'd just like something to make me feel more or less normal during my "off" days. You guys think deprenyl would be a good fit for me? Perhaps in low doses, like a gram or less per day.
  20. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Personally havnt research deprenyl enough, and really dont plan to. Its very time consuming to really get deep and good information.I'd research it deeply and talk to people who have used it. You can find them on many of the Pea threads.
  21. Advanced Member
    djremix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    39
    Posts
    502
    Rep Power
    2849
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    31.61%

    Quote Originally Posted by TRDE59 View Post
    Yeah, I'm seriously considering deprenyl. Pea + hord is cool, but it still doesn't prolong the effects to any degree to make it worth it. pea lasts about 30 minutes without anything else, but it lasts about 90 minutes with hordenine. And it's stronger. It's better than 30, but still not enough for my liking. To me, since the effects are only noticable for an hour and a half, I wouldn't think it would be a very potent fat burning stack. Especially since I'm using it while bulking and I'm not having problems gaining weight. (or, at least I wouldn't be if school weren't such a ***** ). That said, it would work very well in addition to some other fat burners.

    It's relatively cheap, though, so that's nice. Weird thing about PEA, though, is that it's not much of a stimulant at all, at least for me. And I've dosed up to 500 g. Great mood elevation (for the 90 minutes that it worked) but actually, it chills me out. No "stim" effects for me, although I am more alert.

    It is fantastic for libido, however. I mean, it doesn't make you think about sex or give you random boners, but if you see a hot girl or look at porn, you get turned on a hell of a lot more for some reason. Maybe just cause you're in a good mood

    Anyway,

    I have ADD, and I'm thinking deprenyl would help me. Using amphetamines/methylphenidate every day is no way to go through life. It dehydrates me and makes it nearly impossible to gain weight (not to mention the worst limp **** syndrome of your life), so I rarely use it unless I have important school work to do. Thus, leaving me with nothing except my slow-processing, unable to concentrate brain on the days that I don't use them, which is most of the time.

    I'd just like something to make me feel more or less normal during my "off" days. You guys think deprenyl would be a good fit for me? Perhaps in low doses, like a gram or less per day.
    im trying some 5mg deprenyl and the pea/hordenine combo thing tonight. will let you know.

    Im sorry about your situation, it must be very tough not wanting to be on stims all day but finding it tough to do any work without.

    If i may suggest something to try out before deprenyl.

    Piracetam at 2,4G to 3.2G per day
    +choline as needed (prevents headaches from constant pira use)
    USP lab's REM3G, really improves your sleep quality, something which daily stims affect badly.

    if after 2 weeks on the above you do not feel a differance, you can add deprenyl at 5 to 10mg / day.

    goos luck

    p.s. you need to be off the stims when you try the above, especially deprenyl, so pick a week or two where you dont have much focusing and work to do, a vacatoon maybe?
  22. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    General Information:

    DL-phenylalanine according to wikipedia.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wikipedia
    DL-phenylalanine is a racemic mixture of phenylalanine - it contains 50 % each of D and L enantiomers. DL-Phenylalanine is marketed as a nutritional supplement for its putative analgesic and antidepressant activities.

    The putative analgesic activity of DL-phenylalanine may be explained by the possible blockage by D-phenylalanine of enkephalin degradation by the enzyme carboxypeptidase A. The mechanism of DL-phenylalanine's putative antidepressant activity may be accounted for by the precursor role of L-phenylalanine in the synthesis of the neurotransmitters norepinephrine and dopamine. Elevated brain norepinephrine and dopamine levels are thought to be associated with antidepressant effects.

    Phenylalanine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Anti-Depressant Properties:


    Quote:
    DL-phenylalanine markedly potentiates opiate analgesia - an example of nutrient/pharmaceutical up-regulation of the endogenous analgesia system.
    Russell AL, McCarty MF.
    Brampton Pain Clinic, Bramalea, Ontario, Canada.

    In the author's clinical experience, concurrent treatment with DL-phenylalanine (DLPA) often appears to potentiate pain relief and also ease depression in patients receiving opiates for chronic non-malignant pain. An analysis of this phenomenon suggests that it may be mediated, at least in part, by up-regulation of the 'endogenous analgesia system' (EAS), a neural pathway that projects caudally from medullary nuclei to the dorsal horn of the spinal column; when stimulated by chronic pain or therapeutic measures such as opiates or acupuncture, the EAS suppresses activation of second-order pain-receptive neurons in the dorsal horn, and thereby alleviates pain. Since serotonin and enkephalins are key neurotransmitters in the EAS, it is reasonable to predict that measures which promote serotonin activity (such as 5-hydroxytryptophan and serotonin-reuptake inhibitors) as well as enkephalin activity (such as D-phenylalanine, an enkephalinase inhibitor) should potentiate EAS-mediated analgesia - a view consistent with much previous medical research. Comprehensive support of the EAS with well-tolerated nutrients and pharmaceuticals may amplify the analgesic efficacy of chronic opiate therapy, while enabling dosage reductions that minimize opiate side-effects. Analogously, this approach may complement the efficacy of acupuncture and other analgesic measures that activate the EAS. Copyright 2000 Harcourt Publishers Ltd.

    Quote:
    DL-phenylalanine versus imipramine: a double-blind controlled study.

    Beckmann H, Athen D, Olteanu M, Zimmer R.

    In a double-blind study, DL-phenylalanine (150--200 mg/24 h) or imipramine (150--200 mg/24 h) was administered to 40 depressed patients (20 patients in each group) for 30 days. Diagnoses were established according to the International Classification of Disease (ICD). The AMP system, the Hamilton Depression Scale and the Bf-S self rating questionnaire (von Zerssen et al., 1974) were used to document psychopathological, neurologic, and somatic changes. Twenty-seven patients (14 on imipramine, 13 on phenylalanine) completed the 30-day trial. No statistical difference could be found between these two drug treatment groups (Student's t-test) using the Hamilton Depression Scale and the Bf-S self rating questionnaire. Ratings for anxiety were significantly lower in the imipramine group on days 10 and 20, but not on day 30; in addition, sleep disturbances were more influenced by imipramine on days 1, 5, and 10, but not on days 20 and 30. Separate analysis of psychopathological syndromes as somatic depressive syndrome and retarded depressive syndrome did not show a group difference (0.05 level of significance using a two-way analysis of variance). It is concluded that DL-phenylalanine might have substantial antidepresant properties. However, certain methodological considerations still warrant a careful interpretation.


    ADD/ADHD Treatment:


    Quote:
    Treatment of attention deficit disorder with DL-phenylalanine.

    Wood DR, Reimherr FW, Wender PH.

    Nineteen patients meeting the criteria for attention deficit disorder, residual type (adult hyperactivity), were given a 2-week double-blind crossover of DL-phenylalanine versus placebo. Thirteen subjects completed the study; the mean global rating of improvement approached significance as compared with placebo. A significant improvement was noted on mood and mood lability. The phenylalanine responders were then continued on open drug, but lost all positive benefits within 3 months. A later open trial of L-phenylalanine produced no clinical effect.


    Deamination of hordenine by monoamine oxidase and its action on vasa deferentia of the rat.

    Barwell CJ, Basma AN, Lafi MA, Leake LD.

    School of Pharmacy, Portsmouth Polytechnic, Hampshire, UK.

    The selectivity of the naturally occurring amine, N,N-dimethyltyramine (hordenine) for monoamine oxidase (MAO) and its action upon isolated vasa deferentia of the rat was investigated. Hordenine was deaminated by rat liver MAO with a Michaelis constant of 479 microM and maximum velocity of 128 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 compared with 144 microM and 482 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 for tyramine. Studies, with selective irreversible inhibitors of MAO, showed that hordenine was a highly selective substrate for MAO-B of liver and that it was not deaminated by the MAO-A of intestinal epithelium. In contrast to tyramine, hordenine did not produce contractions of isolated vasa deferentia. However, 25 microM hordenine potentiated contractile responses of vasa, from control animals, to submaximal doses of noradrenaline and inhibited responses to tyramine. It did not alter responses, to noradrenaline, of vasa denervated by chronic pretreatment of rats with guanethidine. Therefore, it appears that hordenine acted as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake, in isolated vasa deferentia. These results indicate that dietary-hordenine is unlikely to be deaminated by intestinal MAO as this is predominantly MAO-A. Consequently, it is likely to be absorbed and could affect the sympathetic nervous system, by virtue of its action as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake.

    PMID: 2570842 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


    One trainer, on Bodybuilding dot com, claimed his trainees got good results using these two with tryosine.

    Im finding all these studies but they dont mean anything intill its expirenced. Every bodies reacts differently. Somer users report crazy euphoria. Others say it hits them for fifteen minutes then it goes. some say a few hours.The only way to know for sure how your effected by this(or any other thing for that matter) is get tested to see what is high , low, etc. This is what Chad Nichols does to his clients and every single person results are different.
  23. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Does anyone know how long Hord inhibits MAO-B?
  24. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    My purpose in this thread is to determine is Pea/Hordenine combo is safe for fatloss for about two months.Ive already gone this far I might as well keep it up. If anyone can contribute in this it is much appreciated. If I cannot find research it is safe Ill just stick with what is know intill farther research comes out on Pea/Hordenine.

    Ive found a connection.

    Check it out. This is The only study on Pubmed that states Hord Inhibits Mao-B.

    Deamination of hordenine by monoamine oxidase and its action on vasa deferentia of the rat.
    Author: Barwell CJ , Basma AN , Lafi MA , Leake LD
    Source: J Pharm Pharmacol, 41(6): 421-3 1989
    Service Fee: $12.00 ; Copyright Royalties: $24.00

    Abstract: The selectivity of the naturally occurring amine, N,N-dimethyltyramine (hordenine) for monoamine oxidase (MAO) and its action upon isolated vasa deferentia of the rat was investigated. Hordenine was deaminated by rat liver MAO with a Michaelis constant of 479 microM and maximum velocity of 128 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 compared with 144 microM and 482 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 for tyramine. Studies, with selective irreversible inhibitors of MAO, showed that hordenine was a highly selective substrate for MAO-B of liver and that it was not deaminated by the MAO-A of intestinal epithelium. In contrast to tyramine, hordenine did not produce contractions of isolated vasa deferentia. However, 25 microM hordenine potentiated contractile responses of vasa, from control animals, to submaximal doses of noradrenaline and inhibited responses to tyramine. It did not alter responses, to noradrenaline, of vasa denervated by chronic pretreatment of rats with guanethidine. Therefore, it appears that hordenine acted as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake, in isolated vasa deferentia. These results indicate that dietary-hordenine is unlikely to be deaminated by intestinal MAO as this is predominantly MAO-A. Consequently, it is likely to be absorbed and could affect the sympathetic nervous system, by virtue of its action as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake.
    Language: eng
    Unique Identifier:
    MinorMeSH Heading Alkaloids, Animals, Deamination, Male, Mitochondria, Liver, Monoamine Oxidase, Muscle, Smooth, Norepinephrine, Rats, Rats, Inbred Strains, Sympathomimetics, Tyramine, Vas Deferens,


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Publication Type: In Vitro
    ISSN: 00223573
    Country of Publication: ENGLAND



    We know it inhibits Mao-B and doesnt effect A. correct...
    well lets get deeper into the rabbit hole...Look at the last statement of the pubmed study


    "Consequently, it is likely to be absorbed and could affect the sympathetic nervous system, by virtue of its action as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake. "

    Moreover,I Think Hordenine falls into the (NRI) or (NARI) catagory. Possibly the (NDRI). but why would the study say Mao-b? When I connected it to NRI or NARI or possibly even NDRI?

    Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    NorepinephrineNorepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (NRIs), also known as noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors (NARIs), are compounds that elevate the extracellular level of the neurotransmitter norepinephrine in the central nervous system by inhibiting its reuptake from the synaptic cleft into the presynaptic neuronal terminal. The drugs inhibit the class of neurotransmitter transporters known as norepinephrine transporters. They have virtually no action at other monoamine transporters.


    [edit] List of NRIs
    Atomoxetine (Strattera®)
    Reboxetine (Edronax®)
    Viloxazine (Vivalan®)
    Maprotiline (Ludiomil®)
    Bupropion (Wellbutrin®)
    Radafaxine (A drug related to Bupropion presently in clinical trials)
    Strattera® is available in the United States and is indicated by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the treatment of ADD and ADHD. Off-label uses include the treatment of depression and anxiety.

    Reboxetine, unavailable in the United States and Canada, has been found to be effective at combating depression.

    Radafaxine, a potent metabolite of Bupropion, is currently being developed by GlaxoSmithKline.

    [hide]v • d • eAntidepressants (N06A)
    Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI) Harmaline • Iproniazid • Isocarboxazid • Nialamide • Pargyline • Phenelzine • Selegiline • Toloxatone • Tranylcypromine
    RIMAs: Brofaromine • Moclobemide
    Dopamine reuptake inhibitor (DARI) Amineptine • Phenmetrazine • Vanoxerine
    Norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitors (NDRI) Bupropion
    Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (NRI) or (NARI) Atomoxetine • Maprotiline • Reboxetine • Viloxazine
    Serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (SNRI) Desvenlafaxine • Duloxetine • Milnacipran • Nefazodone • Venlafaxine
    Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) Alaproclate • Citalopram • Escitalopram • Etoperidone • Fluoxetine • Fluvoxamine • Paroxetine • Sertraline • Zimelidine
    Serotonin-noradrenaline-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (SNDRI) Brasofensine • Tesofensine
    Selective serotonin reuptake enhancer (SSRE) Tianeptine
    Noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressant (NaSSA) Mirtazapine
    Tricyclic antidepressants (TCA) Amitriptyline • Amoxapine • Butriptyline • Clomipramine • Desipramine • Dibenzepin • Dothiepin • Doxepin • Imipramine • Iprindole • Lofepramine • Melitracen • Nortriptyline • Opipramol • Protriptyline • Trimipramine
    Tetracyclic antidepressants Maprotiline • Mianserin • Nefazodone • Trazodone
  25. Featured Author
    Patrick Arnold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Rep Power
    554327
    Level
    50
    Lv. Percent
    40.6%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    First Off, would like to say if it sounds like Im frustrated its because I am. The reason is conflicting informations has entered my mind about this compound and whenever this happens I have questions.=) Im being realistic because we all want the best for our bodies , correct?

    Is Pea and Hordenine safe to use?

    Ive read in the recent Iron Man(with the huge Italian bodybuilder on the front with two girls kneeling touching his legs)No it wasnt an article pimping a product it was natural compunds that assist in weightloss. The article says, Pea is a good fat-burner compound. In the article on Pea it also said not to use with a MOI, antidepressant.

    Is hordinene an anti-depressant? I havnt seen any research that says it is but I havnt really gone after this one because Ive been busy. anyone, so maybe you can save me some research.

    A few facts about Hordenine

    Bodybuilding.com - Hordenine Information and Product Listing! Hordenine FAQ!

    so it appears Hordenine alone is safe.(Of course youll want to cycle off of it as it releases Norephin. and use something else. I think its a good idea to use one main Stim at a time, but thats just me..lets get to the main point)

    We all know what PEA is. The love molecule.Makes you feel good. The chemical when your in love or eat choclate.

    Without an MOA INHIBITOR Pea doesnt work nearly as well.

    Now sure You can use Pea/Hord on occasion and be safe; however, who is Interested if you can use it for say a month strait with being safe?

    Raises Hand

    Im a curious person and want to know how safe the body is with this combo and also if it has any long-term effects.

    If I do use this combo Will be using it for a fatloss stack ..cutting down ...cutting farther than Ive ever cut.IMHO this combo is for serious cutting only.

    so Summerizing Is The Pea/Hord Combo safe to use, ad possibly have positive effects for one month or possibly longer term use?

    people have been taking PEA with MAOIs for a while now experimenting in ways to get a buzz. sometimes they use selegeline.

    i tried PEA and hordenine (SFR brand) and it made me feel nervous and anxious and unwell. headache.

    I think its a poor and unclean method of stimulation. MAOIs can raise blood pressure too easily. Plus any actual speed like effect in the brain was short lived too.

    much better choices for fat loss than this. at least that is my experience
  26. Featured Author
    Patrick Arnold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,119
    Rep Power
    554327
    Level
    50
    Lv. Percent
    40.6%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    Thanks for your input. Looking for everything available. Research and test subjects. brain scans if possible or chemical tests on dopamine levels before, during, and after use. Everything available on this subject
    just take it and see if it works for you.

    you can talk some stuff to death

    just do it!!
  27. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    My goal was not to get a buzz , only purely for fatloss because I saw an article that cleams PEA is structurally clean. Thanks for your feedback! I think my decision will be not to do this stack and do another fatloss stack.I may change my mind intill more facts are available.

    I think Ill do it a week and see how my body responds
  28. New Member
    TRDE59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    36
    Rep Power
    113
    Level
    5
    Lv. Percent
    80.85%

    I agree with PA. Just try it, man. It depends on the person, especially with neurochemical stuff. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

    But, for me, on it's own, it's not really that potent. It's a nice mood booster when I need it, as long as it's not a situation that produces anxiety.

    I think this would go great with some other stims made specifically for fat loss. Most diets give you a crappy feeling cause you're undereating, and your body doesn't like that. The PEA/hord could counteract that. That's the whole principle behind cytolean. The pea itself is not the fat burner. The pea is just a mood lifter while the other ingredients like green tea and caffeine go to work (I think it has caffeine in it). Basically the idea is just to make dieting feel better, raise your mood, cause a lot of stims make you feel like crap.

    I think that's why AMP has chocamine in it, as well.

    You never said what else you're stacking with it.
  29. rollin' on dubs!
    WannaBeHulk's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  178 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Age
    30
    Posts
    923
    Rep Power
    571
    Level
    23
    Lv. Percent
    53.33%

    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    My goal was not to get a buzz , only purely for fatloss because I saw an article that cleams PEA is structurally clean. Thanks for your feedback! I think my decision will be not to do this stack and do another fatloss stack.I may change my mind intill more facts are available.

    I think Ill do it a week and see how my body responds
    if you want to use it for fat loss purposes, there are much better options. IMO, the research with PEA and fat loss is really weak. it may provide a better benefit for you after several weeks of dieting when chemical levels drop.
  30. Board Sponsor
    rpen22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    3,702
    Rep Power
    11095
    Level
    42
    Lv. Percent
    13.38%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    i tried PEA and hordenine (SFR brand) and it made me feel nervous and anxious and unwell. headache.
    When I used the SFR brand at 1 capsule, I really didn't feel much at all. When I tried it at 2 capsules, I got the same feeling PA's talking about, like a mild headache was coming on.
  31. Advanced Member
    djremix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    39
    Posts
    502
    Rep Power
    2849
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    31.61%

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    just take it and see if it works for you.

    you can talk some stuff to death

    just do it!!

    Welcome back PA!!

    Hope everything is cool now
  32. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Well Duh like all things this is how your body responds to it. I agree with what Wannabe says that it can be useful when your dieting down to seriously low bodyfat levels and could use a raise in dopamine. only this is how I see it useful. There is no need to use it for mood-purposes unless you are really depressed.

    ~ A song just popped out of my unconcious~ I feel Good dududududu I know that I would =)

    I can say this with certainly about myself Im in a good-mood ,most always, so Pea/Hordenine isnt needed. Last time I dieted down to about 1500 cals per day I might have gotten a bit crabby, but it could have been because I wasnt used to it and next time Itll be better. I might not even want to use Pea/Hord if not needed. the more times you diet down the more you get used to it and the better you get. Know what Im saying?

    Although It has been a fun journey researching about Pea/Mai-Inhibitors and everything in between that was learned trying to learn about Hordenine. D1 receptors and really breaking it down into science. Let me save you some time if you ever want to research Hordenine, not much is known.
  33. New Member
    Neuron's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    83
    Rep Power
    123
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    5.14%

    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    My purpose in this thread is to determine is Pea/Hordenine combo is safe for fatloss for about two months.Ive already gone this far I might as well keep it up. If anyone can contribute in this it is much appreciated. If I cannot find research it is safe Ill just stick with what is know intill farther research comes out on Pea/Hordenine.

    Ive found a connection.

    Check it out. This is The only study on Pubmed that states Hord Inhibits Mao-B.

    Deamination of hordenine by monoamine oxidase and its action on vasa deferentia of the rat.
    Author: Barwell CJ , Basma AN , Lafi MA , Leake LD
    Source: J Pharm Pharmacol, 41(6): 421-3 1989
    Service Fee: $12.00 ; Copyright Royalties: $24.00

    Abstract: The selectivity of the naturally occurring amine, N,N-dimethyltyramine (hordenine) for monoamine oxidase (MAO) and its action upon isolated vasa deferentia of the rat was investigated. Hordenine was deaminated by rat liver MAO with a Michaelis constant of 479 microM and maximum velocity of 128 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 compared with 144 microM and 482 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 for tyramine. Studies, with selective irreversible inhibitors of MAO, showed that hordenine was a highly selective substrate for MAO-B of liver and that it was not deaminated by the MAO-A of intestinal epithelium. In contrast to tyramine, hordenine did not produce contractions of isolated vasa deferentia. However, 25 microM hordenine potentiated contractile responses of vasa, from control animals, to submaximal doses of noradrenaline and inhibited responses to tyramine. It did not alter responses, to noradrenaline, of vasa denervated by chronic pretreatment of rats with guanethidine. Therefore, it appears that hordenine acted as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake, in isolated vasa deferentia. These results indicate that dietary-hordenine is unlikely to be deaminated by intestinal MAO as this is predominantly MAO-A. Consequently, it is likely to be absorbed and could affect the sympathetic nervous system, by virtue of its action as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake.
    Language: eng
    Unique Identifier:
    MinorMeSH Heading Alkaloids, Animals, Deamination, Male, Mitochondria, Liver, Monoamine Oxidase, Muscle, Smooth, Norepinephrine, Rats, Rats, Inbred Strains, Sympathomimetics, Tyramine, Vas Deferens,


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Publication Type: In Vitro
    ISSN: 00223573
    Country of Publication: ENGLAND



    We know it inhibits Mao-B and doesnt effect A. correct...
    well lets get deeper into the rabbit hole...Look at the last statement of the pubmed study


    "Consequently, it is likely to be absorbed and could affect the sympathetic nervous system, by virtue of its action as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake. "

    Moreover,I Think Hordenine falls into the (NRI) or (NARI) catagory. Possibly the (NDRI). but why would the study say Mao-b? When I connected it to NRI or NARI or possibly even NDRI?

    Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    NorepinephrineNorepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (NRIs), also known as noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors (NARIs), are compounds that elevate the extracellular level of the neurotransmitter norepinephrine in the central nervous system by inhibiting its reuptake from the synaptic cleft into the presynaptic neuronal terminal. The drugs inhibit the class of neurotransmitter transporters known as norepinephrine transporters. They have virtually no action at other monoamine transporters.


    [edit] List of NRIs
    Atomoxetine (Strattera®)
    Reboxetine (Edronax®)
    Viloxazine (Vivalan®)
    Maprotiline (Ludiomil®)
    Bupropion (Wellbutrin®)
    Radafaxine (A drug related to Bupropion presently in clinical trials)
    Strattera® is available in the United States and is indicated by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the treatment of ADD and ADHD. Off-label uses include the treatment of depression and anxiety.

    Reboxetine, unavailable in the United States and Canada, has been found to be effective at combating depression.

    Radafaxine, a potent metabolite of Bupropion, is currently being developed by GlaxoSmithKline.

    [hide]v • d • eAntidepressants (N06A)
    Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI) Harmaline • Iproniazid • Isocarboxazid • Nialamide • Pargyline • Phenelzine • Selegiline • Toloxatone • Tranylcypromine
    RIMAs: Brofaromine • Moclobemide
    Dopamine reuptake inhibitor (DARI) Amineptine • Phenmetrazine • Vanoxerine
    Norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitors (NDRI) Bupropion
    Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (NRI) or (NARI) Atomoxetine • Maprotiline • Reboxetine • Viloxazine
    Serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (SNRI) Desvenlafaxine • Duloxetine • Milnacipran • Nefazodone • Venlafaxine
    Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) Alaproclate • Citalopram • Escitalopram • Etoperidone • Fluoxetine • Fluvoxamine • Paroxetine • Sertraline • Zimelidine
    Serotonin-noradrenaline-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (SNDRI) Brasofensine • Tesofensine
    Selective serotonin reuptake enhancer (SSRE) Tianeptine
    Noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressant (NaSSA) Mirtazapine
    Tricyclic antidepressants (TCA) Amitriptyline • Amoxapine • Butriptyline • Clomipramine • Desipramine • Dibenzepin • Dothiepin • Doxepin • Imipramine • Iprindole • Lofepramine • Melitracen • Nortriptyline • Opipramol • Protriptyline • Trimipramine
    Tetracyclic antidepressants Maprotiline • Mianserin • Nefazodone • Trazodone

    I put in your statement in bold. Hordenine is a substrate not an inhibitor of MAO-B. Very different effect.
  34. Professional Member
    Gutterpump's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,782
    Rep Power
    270714
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    21.93%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    people have been taking PEA with MAOIs for a while now experimenting in ways to get a buzz. sometimes they use selegeline.
    This is an old thread but...

    I just discovered this by accident..totally wasn't looking for a high. I've been taking a small dose of selegeline for a while and just got some PEA + hordenine caps in recently....been trying some new nootropics after having good effects out of selegeline + piracetam + choline for extra motivation and concentration at work. I took 3 caps of PEA + hordenine and Huge body buzz for about an hour, stimulated for longer though. I think 1-2 caps on this protocol is sufficient for what I was wanting to take it for though. 3 was too much
  35. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33560
    Level
    62
    Lv. Percent
    82.04%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    together both are a waste for me

    pea is useful , I just could use a moa-inhibitor like alpha-yohimbine, without the side effects of yohimbine(raising blood pressure)
    Follow me on facebook, twitter and youtube, where I share information and videos to help you achieve your physique goals, John Smeton Ftness
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Epi and M1-4add safe together?
    By pcav89 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-14-2010, 12:20 AM
  2. Can PEA and Phenibut be taken together?
    By ndawson89 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-02-2008, 06:24 AM
  3. HCG and extreme temperatures, should I be concerned?
    By max silver in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-18-2005, 12:10 PM
  4. Transdermal and Pills together?
    By longtom74 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-12-2003, 02:45 AM
  5. T1 and 19nor together?
    By tropicana in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 04-13-2003, 06:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in