[smeton_yea]

First Off, would like to say if it sounds like Im frustrated its because I am. The reason is conflicting informations has entered my mind about this compound and whenever this happens I have questions.=) Im being realistic because we all want the best for our bodies , correct?

Is Pea and Hordenine safe to use?

Ive read in the recent Iron Man(with the huge Italian bodybuilder on the front with two girls kneeling touching his legs)No it wasnt an article pimping a product it was natural compunds that assist in weightloss. The article says, Pea is a good fat-burner compound. In the article on Pea it also said not to use with a MOI, antidepressant.

Is hordinene an anti-depressant? I havnt seen any research that says it is but I havnt really gone after this one because Ive been busy. anyone, so maybe you can save me some research.

A few facts about Hordenine

Bodybuilding.com - Hordenine Information and Product Listing! Hordenine FAQ!

so it appears Hordenine alone is safe.(Of course youll want to cycle off of it as it releases Norephin. and use something else. I think its a good idea to use one main Stim at a time, but thats just me..lets get to the main point)

We all know what PEA is. The love molecule.Makes you feel good. The chemical when your in love or eat choclate.

Without an MOA INHIBITOR Pea doesnt work nearly as well.

Now sure You can use Pea/Hord on occasion and be safe; however, who is Interested if you can use it for say a month strait with being safe?

Raises Hand

Im a curious person and want to know how safe the body is with this combo and also if it has any long-term effects.

If I do use this combo Will be using it for a fatloss stack ..cutting down ...cutting farther than Ive ever cut.IMHO this combo is for serious cutting only.

so Summerizing Is The Pea/Hord Combo safe to use, ad possibly have positive effects for one month or possibly longer term use?

[Zombie]

well i took 1 pea/hord cap and 3 leviathan with 400gm raspberry ketones and 900mg beta alanine for the first time today and im still alive so i guess is safe.


talking serious now, im really intrested on looking at the fat burning effects of pea and and leviathan fisrt time i used them also im new to beta alanine
maybe i turn this question/suggestion thread in to a log Leviathan +Pea-Hordenine +RK

[smeton_yea]

Thanks for your input. Looking for everything available. Research and test subjects. brain scans if possible or chemical tests on dopamine levels before, during, and after use. Everything available on this subject

[Zombie]

i was looking info on those subjects also but i figured out that the best thing i could do is experiment on me, since not everybody respond the same. i have noticed that i build a tolerance to some supps really fast. tomorrow im going to start with that dosage posted on my thread, im going to put some stats and start some kind of log

[djremix]

first time i saw hordenine in any appreciable amounts was in Avant Labs' H.E.A.T a great mood lifter and decent non stim fatburner.

as i remember it, hordenine did not interact with anything like regular maoi's its a lot less powerfull than selegiline. no cheese effect, no noticable overstimulation when combined with a whole host of other stims, even at 3 times heat dosage.

mood lift was wicked though. happy times

so if anything, id GUESS that hordenine's maoi effects are localised in the stomach at regular dosings.

take it slow and dont mix too many things...just in case

[djremix]

well what do you know. my pea/hord just arrived. took a pill late last night after my WO shake.

nada... even after 3 fyre pills thoughout the day.

ill try again on an empty stomach today and see.

[RexGrandis]

I don't think Hordenine is much of a MAO inhibitor, not much at all really.

[smeton_yea]

Phenylethylamine & Hordenine
Phenylethylamine (PEA) exerts a stimulatory effect in the brain through its effect on the beta-adrenergic and dopamine receptors. Through these mechanisms, PEA not only increases attention and activity but can also elevate mood significantly. And of course, significantly promote the use of fat for fuel.

Hordenine is included in order to make PEA orally bioavailable. It does this by inhibiting the enzyme MAO-B, and as consequence, dopamine activity is also prolonged. During dieting, dopamine is of particular importance because it is generally theorized to be the body’s means of communication between the brain and the anti-starvation hormone Leptin. Additionally, dopamine is also associated with nutrient partitioning, mood, appetite and a whole host of other biochemical functions.

so what this is saying is that when your cutting to an extreme, like low or sub body fat levels that dopamine is reduced and Pea/Hordenine can be benifical.

[djremix]

Originally Posted by djremix

well what do you know. my pea/hord just arrived. took a pill late last night after my WO shake.

nada... even after 3 fyre pills thoughout the day.

ill try again on an empty stomach today and see.

baaah, empty stomach and two pills - nothing
today, empty stomach, 2 pills and 1gram dl-phenelanine(sp?) and extra pea and still nothing.

i am, a little less hungry but wtf?

[Rivet]

2 caps should be WAY more then enough if its going to "hit" you.
I guess there is a lot of non-responders out there. That or perhaps people expect much more then it can deliver? For me its not stim but a mild mood booster. I feel it more when I'm doing something I like (hearing a song I really like etc). I guess I'm going to add these liquibolic caps to my next order to compare them to what I'm used to.

[smeton_yea]

Originally Posted by Rivet

2 caps should be WAY more then enough if its going to "hit" you.
I guess there is a lot of non-responders out there. That or perhaps people expect much more then it can deliver? For me its not stim but a mild mood booster. I feel it more when I'm doing something I like (hearing a song I really like etc). I guess I'm going to add these liquibolic caps to my next order to compare them to what I'm used to.

I have Pea/Hord , Pea from Np and Hord Custom, right now I might do the next eight weeks of my cut with the goal from going to thirteen percent to ten percent. ILL use nothing else but these two.(might use some Clear edge , but perhaps save it for after Pea/Hord) This is just speculation, if any research comes up that says something I think is to be researched more this stack halts. How long did you do basic cuts Rivet?

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by smeton_yea

I have Pea/Hord , Pea from Np and Hord Custom, right now I might do the next eight weeks of my cut with the goal from going to thirteen percent to ten percent. ILL use nothing else but these two.(might use some Clear edge , but perhaps save it for after Pea/Hord) This is just speculation, if any research comes up that says something I think is to be researched more this stack halts. How long did you do basic cuts Rivet?

Basic cuts straight? Hmmm quite a few months. I still use it just not quite as much.

[thesinner]

I don't believe hordenine holds a candle to prescription monoamine oxidase inhibitors like selegiline. Yeah, hordenine has some MAO-B inhibition properties, but nothing to be concerned about.

Hordenine is weak enough to lengthen PEA's already short half-life. Prescription MAOI's are too strong, and will cause your body not to metabolize PEA quick enough.

Think of it like when a dog eats chocolate. Dogs do not have the same body chemistry as humans, and cannot remove theobromine from their system nearly as fast. Because of this, they can get what's called 'chocolate poisoning'. In essence, prescription MAOI's will greatly decrease the amount of PEA your body can safely tolerate.

[smeton_yea]

yeah the plan is 100 pea, 50 hordenine per day. Somedays might go higher on pea but generally the recommended dose

Pharm Pharmacol. 1989 Jun;41(6):421-3.
Deamination of hordenine by monoamine oxidase and its action on vasa deferentia of the rat.

Barwell CJ, Basma AN, Lafi MA, Leake LD.

School of Pharmacy, Portsmouth Polytechnic, Hampshire, UK.

The selectivity of the naturally occurring amine, N,N-dimethyltyramine (hordenine) for monoamine oxidase (MAO) and its action upon isolated vasa deferentia of the rat was investigated. Hordenine was deaminated by rat liver MAO with a Michaelis constant of 479 microM and maximum velocity of 128 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 compared with 144 microM and 482 nmol (mg protein)-1 h-1 for tyramine. Studies, with selective irreversible inhibitors of MAO, showed that hordenine was a highly selective substrate for MAO-B of liver and that it was not deaminated by the MAO-A of intestinal epithelium. In contrast to tyramine, hordenine did not produce contractions of isolated vasa deferentia. However, 25 microM hordenine potentiated contractile responses of vasa, from control animals, to submaximal doses of noradrenaline and inhibited responses to tyramine. It did not alter responses, to noradrenaline, of vasa denervated by chronic pretreatment of rats with guanethidine. Therefore, it appears that hordenine acted as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake, in isolated vasa deferentia. These results indicate that dietary-hordenine is unlikely to be deaminated by intestinal MAO as this is predominantly MAO-A. Consequently, it is likely to be absorbed and could affect the sympathetic nervous system, by virtue of its action as an inhibitor of noradrenaline uptake.



Hordenine is obviously not a very well reserched compound, as their are only 33 studies overall that are indexed in pubmed. Selegiline (Deprenyl) is a much more thoroughly researched compound with known MAO-B inhibiting properties

Deprenyl (also known as Jumex, Juprenil, Selegiline) is a derivative of the amino acid L-Phenylalanine. It is a prescription drug wordwide for over a dozen health conditions and is used in pet medicine.

Deprenyl Wite-up(brand name Juprenil) 5 mg 50 tablets 1 Box

-Neurochemical Effects-

- Inhibits the human brain enzyme MAO-B. MAO B increases with age and breaks down the vitally important neurotransmitter Dopamine. (Boosts Dopamine levels, Mood/Mental Energy/Motivation Enhancer)

-Boosts PhenylEthylAmine levels 1300-3500%. (Helps maintain focus, concentration, alertness and effortful attention.)

- Has Potent NeuroAntioxidant & NeuroProtective effects by raising Brain SOD levels.

-Dose-

1-40 mg daily with meals.

-When can I feel it?-

Works within an hour to a few days.

-What works best with it?-

Piracetam, Oxiracetam, Pea,Hydergine, Centrophenoxine, L-Huperzine A, Idebenone, Pyritinol,

So In conclusion, Deprenyl could work better with Pea since is it boosts PhenylEthylAmine levels 1300-3500%. Right now though I have some Hordenine to use.

has anyone took both for a significant amount of time and can compare clearness of effects?