L-Glutamine and what else

[srt4miller]

With me becoming a LE officer i decied that i don't want to be the smallest guy on the force. So i have been lifting for a while now and pretty much just eatting right and taking 100% Whey Pro. Shakes. I have been doing some reading and i belive that L-Glutamine is what i am going to add in next. In my reading i have found that you should take some in the moring and right after you work out Correct?? Also that any more then 10 to 15 grams aday is enought, and could cause a upset stomach. Not a big deal. Also what else is good to stack with that. I red that Creatine and L glutamine should not be taken together. Is this true? So in a nut shell just wondering what else should be taken to help build muscle?

Side note: This is what i have right now at my house:
Creatine Powder
L Glutamine 3000 caps
ON 100% Whey Protein
Omgea 3 Fish body Oils 1000

Please Help!!!!! Thanks for your time

 

[bLacKjAck.]

Hey bud, good to have you here at AM, welcome! It looks like you have a solid plan going there, I think you have your priorities right and in line. A lot of guys come on here and wanna swallow the whole kitchen sink the first day they decide to lift in hopes of becoming huge. For now I would say just eat a lot of food, lift heavy, and take in about 1-1/2g to 2g of protein per lb of body weight and you will grow, no doubt about it. Also make sure that you don't overtrain. I recommend taking AT LEAST 2-3 days off per week, especially for a new guy. Anyways, looks like you have a great plan set up and always know that you have all the help you need here at AM.

 

[Australian made]

Good advice blackjack.

Definitely keep up the protein and clean carbs and throw in the creatine you have. Keep things simple. For some reason i've seen glutamine get bagged out a lot on this site. I always thought it was meant to be a great recovery supp but personally it didn't sit well in my stomach so i woudln't know first hand. I'd say you will find plenty of info on it if you search the site.

Remember to eat as much protein as possible before relying on the shakes.

BTW FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal might come in handy if you want to really know how much cals, grams of protein etc you are consuming.

 

[bLacKjAck.]

To comment on the L-Glutamine. I have been supplementing Glutamine in addition to my whey shakes(which already have some in it), seemingly forever and have never noticed any ill effects. But, everyone is different man, if it is upsetting your stomach don't sweat it. It just helps me recover so much faster.

 

[vision]

i've been taking glutamine for about 4 years now and it definitely helps me with recovery. look at your ON 100% Whey if its the same as mine it probably has 4g of glutamine per serving so there is no need to take any more when you use whey. I take 5-6g at night before i go to sleep and i wake up a lot easier and more refreshed.

Also, whenever I am using glutamine I never get sick. I noticed this because sometimes I cycle off and if I cycle off during the winter I ALWAYS get sick less than 1 week after coming off of it.

Make sure to eat well and get a lot of sleep and you grow quickly.

 

[srt4miller]

Thanks guys for all your help! Glade to see that i am on the right track. I want to get huge but i know it takes time. I work out 4 or 5 days a week right now. Well I hope to learn alot about my body, and the things it needs to help heal faster, and improve on lift weights. Thanks again!

 

[vince spider]

good to see im not the only one who rates glutamine. proberly wont be long before the glutamine haters invade this thread quoteing pubmed studies and all that other stuff they have read out of a text book.:fool2:
personally i beleave in applied kwowledge , trying different sups and finding out what works for you:thumbsup:

 

[strester]

good to see im not the only one who rates glutamine. proberly wont be long before the glutamine haters invade this thread quoteing pubmed studies and all that other stuff they have read out of a text book.:fool2:
personally i beleave in applied kwowledge , trying different sups and finding out what works for you:thumbsup:

amen to that ... another glutamine user here as well

 

[live4fitness]

Also, whenever I am using glutamine I never get sick. I noticed this because sometimes I cycle off and if I cycle off during the winter I ALWAYS get sick less than 1 week after coming off of it.

Great info.

 

[gdbear65]

Glutamine and creatine do not compete for absorption or transport mechanisms. It is the most abundant amino in the body - it primarily supports the immune system and the digestive tract. Intense lifting can deplete your stores, so it's a good idea to supplement above and beyond what you'll get from whey protein. Yes there's a fair amount in whey, but it occurs naturally. I prefer glutamine peptides to l-glutamine - peptides release a slow steady trickle of glutamine into your system

 

[srt4miller]

Glutamine and creatine do not compete for absorption or transport mechanisms. It is the most abundant amino in the body - it primarily supports the immune system and the digestive tract. Intense lifting can deplete your stores, so it's a good idea to supplement above and beyond what you'll get from whey protein. Yes there's a fair amount in whey, but it occurs naturally. I prefer glutamine peptides to l-glutamine - peptides release a slow steady trickle of glutamine into your system

Hey thanks for the info!!! When i run out of my l-glut i will have to try what you take! Thanks again everyone!

 

[jmh80]

Glutamine is worthless.

Vince - my applied knowledge is that glutamine (be it L or peptide form) has not done sh*t for me. I took quite a bit of it - 2 kilo's or so I'd say. The PubMed Studies back that up.

Believe what you want to believe.


Bottom line - spend your hard earned cash on something else and get enough protein daily - that will take care of any glutamine needs (unless you are a burn victim).

 

[NO HYPE]

"Glutamine is worthless." "Believe what you want to believe."

.... WORD jmh80!

With the exception of sepsis, gastrointestinal disorders, and recovery from trauma/surgery....

Since glutamine is the most abundant amino acid within us (prior to supplementation), supplemental glutamine is VERY much limited in it's availability for physiological uptake, and so many people out there are simply pissing their money away.

It's already synthesized within the body in large amounts, found in food, and....

[size=+2]found in significant amounts within a protein shake.[/size]

In an average 50 gram protein shake, there's about 4.5+ grams of glutamine. So for a 150 lb individual at 2 protein shakes a day, that's around 9-10 grams of supplemental glutamine, on top of what is already being produced endogenously.

In terms of glutamine intake via diet.... in healthy adults it has been estimated to be around 5 grams per day (1). Foods such as meat, fish, dairy products, eggs, beans, cabbage, spinach, parsley, beets, ect. are all common sources. A single 3-oz serving of meat contains around 3-4 grams of glutamine. (2)

(1) Glutamine in parenteral nutrition: more food for thought -- ELIA 45 (1): 6 -- Gut

(2) glutamine: Definition and Much More from Answers.com

 

[vince spider]

the gluatamine bashers have invaded this thread:whiner:
:dump:

 

[NO HYPE]

the gluatamine bashers have invaded this thread:whiner:
:dump:

Glutamine basher?

.... nah, just speaking of the [size=+2]truth. [/size]

 

[Jayhawkk]

It comes down to making your own decision. Basically, for what it does I could either save that money or spend it elsewhere in supps that work more efficiently. Placebo works well too. What you feel vs. what is actually happening could be very two different things.

If you're happy taking glut. then by all means take it.

 

[waimoku]

Preventing getting sick

i've been taking glutamine for about 4 years now and it definitely helps me with recovery. look at your ON 100% Whey if its the same as mine it probably has 4g of glutamine per serving so there is no need to take any more when you use whey. I take 5-6g at night before i go to sleep and i wake up a lot easier and more refreshed.

Also, whenever I am using glutamine I never get sick. I noticed this because sometimes I cycle off and if I cycle off during the winter I ALWAYS get sick less than 1 week after coming off of it.

Make sure to eat well and get a lot of sleep and you grow quickly.

I have had the same problem. When I off cycle the glutamine, I have been taking XYMOGEN's IgG 2000 whenever I feel the onset of a cold/flu and I have never gotten sick.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Is the 'never get sick' statements that are being made because prior to supping you all were sick as hell, all the time? Could it be that at about the same time as glut supps you're also taking better care in regards to nutrition and training which is leading to better overall health?


I know when i'm dumping a good amount of money down my throat in the form of supps and healthy food I tend to treat myself better, so to speak, than when i'm just going about my daily business. I don't supp a glut pill at all and I almost never get sick with a cold/flu and I walk around in t-shirts and shorts damn near year-round in Maryland.

 

[Rodja]

How do you peg L-Glutamine as being the sole reason for not getting sick? I seldom get sick (maybe once a year) and I haven't taken L-Glutamine in years because I did not see any additional results from it. For recovery BCAAs are much better and as Jayhawkk said, better nutrition and exercise help the immune system.

I just have never understood why people refute the research that has been done over the years. Many studies have proven that only IV L-Glutamine has any effect and that is only in burn victims or those who had some sort of major stresser on their CNS/Immune system.

 

[NO HYPE]

Many studies have proven that only IV L-Glutamine has any effect and that is only in burn victims or those who had some sort of major stresser on their CNS/Immune system.

What people fail to realize is that exercise depletes plasma glutamine, not intracellular muscle glutamine.

In healthy adults, wether it be intravenous or oral administration.... supplemental glutamine only affects plasma glutamine concentrations.

 

[waimoku]

How do you peg L-Glutamine as being the sole reason for not getting sick? I seldom get sick (maybe once a year) and I haven't taken L-Glutamine in years because I did not see any additional results from it. For recovery BCAAs are much better and as Jayhawkk said, better nutrition and exercise help the immune system.

I just have never understood why people refute the research that has been done over the years. Many studies have proven that only IV L-Glutamine has any effect and that is only in burn victims or those who had some sort of major stresser on their CNS/Immune system.

I guess I may have made too general a statement.

I can not say for sure that the glutamine supplement I was taking before/after a workout was preventing me getting sick. However, even if it was only a mental/placebo effect, I went from getting a cold 3-4 times a year too maybe once or twice a year.

However, I can say that given that I live in Hawaii (no I really am not trying to rub that in) that I see every kind of cold/flu bug from around the world. Since I got the IgG supplement back in August 2006 (which I only take when I feel cold symptoms coming on), I have not gotten sick and that has been during the high season for cold and flus out here.

In short, I was not really trying to endorse glutamine for preventing colds, but more so for IgG supplements.

 

[vince spider]

How do you peg L-Glutamine as being the sole reason for not getting sick? I seldom get sick (maybe once a year) and I haven't taken L-Glutamine in years because I did not see any additional results from it. For recovery BCAAs are much better and as Jayhawkk said, better nutrition and exercise help the immune system.

I just have never understood why people refute the research that has been done over the years. Many studies have proven that only IV L-Glutamine has any effect and that is only in burn victims or those who had some sort of major stresser on their CNS/Immune system.

surprise, suprise its rodjo the king of gluatamine bashers:welcome:
i knew u would turn up sooner or later:cheers:

 

[b unit]

personally i say the only knowledge that counts is applied knowledge

i wanna see some photos of some of these experts who rattle of pubmed this, pubmed that or the guys who say glutamine did this, did that, to see if their physiques match the words they type, cause any fool can go around regurgitating whatever they've read or heard, the proof is in the pudding people

i don't care if you're for or against glutamine i wanna see what really counts, real time results!! not what some boffin in a lab who's never lifted anything but a beaker and a pencil!!

put up or shut up

b
:thumbsup:

 

[vince spider]

personally i say the only knowledge that counts is applied knowledge

i wanna see some photos of some of these experts who rattle of pubmed this, pubmed that or the guys who say glutamine did this, did that, to see if their physiques match the words they type, cause any fool can go around regurgitating whatever they've read or heard, the proof is in the pudding people

i don't care if you're for or against glutamine i wanna see what really counts, real time results!! not what some boffin in a lab who's never lifted anything but a beaker and a pencil!!

put up or shut up

b
:thumbsup:

:goodpost:
couldnt agree more:thumbsup:

 

[Jayhawkk]

Of course most of those guys in a lab designed the very things you use daily without being able to use their own physiques as 'proof' Also, looking at someone and what they look like does not mean a particualr product is the sole reason. Otherwise Jay Cutler won Mr. O from taking his muscletech products.

 

[NO HYPE]

personally i say the only knowledge that counts is applied knowledge

Are you suggesting that the results from peer-viewed studies on trained individuals.... isn't appliable knowledge? What, the results don't count for the simple reason that the people conducting the study are wearing lab coats?

 

[NO HYPE]

i don't care if you're for or against glutamine i wanna see what really counts, real time results!! not what some boffin in a lab who's never lifted anything but a beaker and a pencil!!

Ok, so you don't listen to people in lab coats.... so just ignore the results that have been presented, and just keep spending your money in an effort to achieve "real time results".

 

[NO HYPE]

i wanna see some photos of some of these experts who rattle of pubmed this, pubmed that or the guys who say glutamine did this, did that, to see if their physiques match the words they type, cause any fool can go around regurgitating whatever they've read or heard, the proof is in the pudding people

put up or shut up

Yeah, maybe we should all present you with pictures, so that you can tell us what products are working and what products aren't.

 

[vision]

Is the 'never get sick' statements that are being made because prior to supping you all were sick as hell, all the time? Could it be that at about the same time as glut supps you're also taking better care in regards to nutrition and training which is leading to better overall health?


I know when i'm dumping a good amount of money down my throat in the form of supps and healthy food I tend to treat myself better, so to speak, than when i'm just going about my daily business. I don't supp a glut pill at all and I almost never get sick with a cold/flu and I walk around in t-shirts and shorts damn near year-round in Maryland.

I've never been a very sick person. I get the usual cold in the winter and thats about it. I've always eaten healthy since I was a kid. I actually came from a family who had sit down dinners with meat and three or four sides of vegetables and all that. I've been taking glutamine actually for about 6-7 years now (I tend to forget how old I am). There weren't too many reports out back then and those that were out were conflicting. So just going by what has happened to me over the years supplementing with 10-15 grams a day I've seen differences then when I'm not on it. If I take it before bed I sleep better. When I go visit family thats when I usually cycle off my supplements (creatine, glutamine) because I dont feel like lugging them around with me and plus I visit them every few months so it coincides with my cycling on and off patterns anyway. I noticed over the years that within a week of cycling off glutamine, usually over winter break, I would start to get sick. Its happened every year since I started taking it so I'm just going by the patterns I see. This past year I didn't cycle off and I was fine even though everyone else in the house was getting sick, I didnt.

I'm not disputing any scientific evidence, I'm just going by what has happened to me for a better part of a decade. As far as glutamine being a worthy weight training supplement I'm sure there is some controversy. But for me it works well as a daily health supplement just like a multi.

 

[rampage jackson]

What people fail to realize is that exercise depletes plasma glutamine, not intracellular muscle glutamine.

That pretty much says it all...I don't dispute that ppl feel better using glutamine, just realize what mechanisms are at play before you argue that it's a miracle supplement. IMO it may be possible that the ppl who see "results" from glutamine may have lower base levels of plasma glutamine, and supplementing with it raises them up to a healthy range...who knows? Regardless, most protein powders will supply you with plenty of glutamine. That being said, there is no harm in taking what you have already purchased.

 

[thesinner]

personally i say the only knowledge that counts is applied knowledge

i wanna see some photos of some of these experts who rattle of pubmed this, pubmed that or the guys who say glutamine did this, did that, to see if their physiques match the words they type, cause any fool can go around regurgitating whatever they've read or heard, the proof is in the pudding people

i don't care if you're for or against glutamine i wanna see what really counts, real time results!! not what some boffin in a lab who's never lifted anything but a beaker and a pencil!!

put up or shut up

b
:thumbsup:

Most of the research that makes glutamine look good is the kind of research you have just described: tests done on a bunch of nobodies with no size or strength. It's the double-blind studies with college and professional sports teams as test subjects that make things like glutamine look bad.

Now then, let's not get into the fact that taking something which has no effect alongside of things which do will always give great results. Glutamine & creatine mixed with proper diet and training will show results; though, I'm sure you'll agree that proper diet and training alone will show good results. I'm sure you'll also agree that Glutamine and Creatine without proper diet and training will not show great results at all. With the above logic you can conclude that Glutamine mixed with proper diet and training will also show great results (which would be regardless of whether glutamine works at all).


In conclusion: the #1 thing you need to get into shape is proper diet and training, and although some people swear by glutamine, the science relating it to your fitness goals is very weak and propsective users should take that in account before dropping $30 a kilo for it.

 

[b unit]

Are you suggesting that the results from peer-viewed studies on trained individuals.... isn't appliable knowledge? What, the results don't count for the simple reason that the people conducting the study are wearing lab coats?

that's not what i'm suggesting

all i'm saying is it's easy to go around regurgitating facts from whatever studies you've read from and sound like an expert that knows it all, what i refer to as applied knowledge is that if you're talking the talk like an expert, well you better be walking the walk, the proof should be in the pudding

 

[b unit]

Ok, so you don't listen to people in lab coats.... so just ignore the results that have been presented, and just keep spending your money in an effort to achieve "real time results".

where did i say i don't listen to people in lab coats???

i said "i wanna see what really counts, real time results!! not what some boffin in a lab who's never lifted anything but a beaker and a pencil!!"

nowhere in what i said did i use the word "listen"

and where did i mention anything about what i spend my money on?

my point was one from my observation, i said "i don't care if you're for or against glutamine i wanna see what really counts, real time results!! "

 

[b unit]

In conclusion: the #1 thing you need to get into shape is proper diet and training, and although some people swear by glutamine, the science relating it to your fitness goals is very weak and propsective users should take that in account before dropping $30 a kilo for it.

i agree with your call on proper diet and training, no supplement can ever replace or make up for a crap diet and crap training

 

[b unit]

Of course most of those guys in a lab designed the very things you use daily without being able to use their own physiques as 'proof' .

that's true in certain respects but guys like Dr D, Dsade and Workin from Nimbus are no slouches when it comes to lifting the steel and they're in there advising these lab coats what to do.

and because of that i have no problem purchasing from them directly or indirectly, they talk the talk and they walk the walk.

i listen to what you've got to say as well as you lift big and are big!!! your log on posidion and havoc was excellent reading and was instrumental in my purchasing of posidion!!

 

[NO HYPE]

where did i say i don't listen to people in lab coats???

You didn't.

i said "i wanna see what really counts, real time results!! not what some boffin in a lab who's never lifted anything but a beaker and a pencil!!"

Yeah, that's it.... hear only what you want to hear, and just dismiss real results because they came from pubmed.

nowhere in what i said did i use the word "listen"

Correct.... nowhere, did you mention the word listen.

and where did i mention anything about what i spend my money on?

You didn't.... Any other questions?

my point was one from my observation, i said "i don't care if you're for or against glutamine i wanna see what really counts, real time results!! "

Yes.... and based on what you've posted, you simply dismiss any "real time results" that are presented in peer-reviewed studies (on trained individuals), for the simple fact that a "boffin in a lab" is the one who is conducting the studies.

 

[NO HYPE]

all i'm saying is it's easy to go around regurgitating facts from whatever studies you've read from and sound like an expert that knows it all,

Alright ya got me.... I'm just posting hear in an effort to make myself look smart (I hope it's working!).

 

[b unit]

Alright ya got me.... I'm just posting hear in an effort to make myself look smart (I hope it's working!).

:yawn:

 

[Jayhawkk]

*here*

Just helping you look smart

 

[NO HYPE]

*here*

Just helping you look smart

Good ol' Jayhawk.... always there to lend a helping hand.

 

[NO HYPE]

In an average 50 gram protein shake, there's about 4.5+ grams of glutamine. So for a 150 lb individual at 2 protein shakes a day, that's around 9-10 grams of supplemental glutamine, [size=+2]on top of what is already being produced endogenously.[/size]


In terms of glutamine intake via diet.... in healthy adults it has been estimated to be around 5 grams per day

.... Maybe we're just not geting enough?

 

[gdbear65]

I read recently that a couple of studies have shown glutamine to have an anti-catabolic effect and there is growing body of evidence showing glutamine enhances immune cell function.

To the poster who asked people to "put up or shut up" - what are we suppsed to put up? Glutamine is not anabolic.

 

[strester]

I read recently that a couple of studies have shown glutamine to have an anti-catabolic effect and there is growing body of evidence showing glutamine enhances immune cell function.

To the poster who asked people to "put up or shut up" - what are we suppsed to put up? Glutamine is not anabolic.

do you have any links or could you provide the name of the source where you read this? i'm very interested to read more on this

 

[gdbear65]

do you have any links or could you provide the name of the source where you read this? i'm very interested to read more on this

I read it in the March issue of FitnessRx for Men, Supplement Edge column by Anssi H. Manninen, MHS. Here's the list of studies:

1. Castell L. Glutamine supplementation in vitro and in vivo, in exercise and in immunodepression. Sports Med, 2003;33:323-45.
2. Avennell A. Glutamine in critical care: current evidence form systematic reviews. Proc Nutr Soc, 2006 Aug;65(3):236-41.
3 Windle EM. Glutamine supplementation in critical illness: evidence, recommendations and implications for clinical practice in burn care. J Burn Care Res, 2006;27:764-72.
4. Welbourne TC. Increased plasma bicarbonate and growth hormone after an oral glutamine load. Am J Clin Nutr 1995;61:1058-61 (I forgot to mention that glutamine has been shown to increase blood level GH)

 

[NO HYPE]

I read recently that a couple of studies have shown glutamine to have an anti-catabolic effect and there is growing body of evidence showing glutamine enhances immune cell function.

These effects are compliments of endogenous glutamine, rather than supplemental glutamine.

While endogenous glutamine plays a detrimental role in overall physiological homeostasis.... the majority of supplemental glutamine is just pissed away, due to consistently high plasma glutamine levels.

 

[NO HYPE]

1. Castell L. Glutamine supplementation in vitro and in vivo, in exercise and in immunodepression. Sports Med, 2003;33:323-45.
2. Avennell A. Glutamine in critical care: current evidence form systematic reviews. Proc Nutr Soc, 2006 Aug;65(3):236-41.
3 Windle EM. Glutamine supplementation in critical illness: evidence, recommendations and implications for clinical practice in burn care. J Burn Care Res, 2006;27:764-72.
4. Welbourne TC. Increased plasma bicarbonate and growth hormone after an oral glutamine load. Am J Clin Nutr 1995;61:1058-61 (I forgot to mention that glutamine has been shown to increase blood level GH)

....

Exercise-induced immunodepression- plasma glutamine is not the link -- Hiscock and Pedersen 93 (3): 813 -- Journal of Applied Physiology

Entrez PubMed

JSSM 2003 - 2, 163-168

CAT.INIST

 

[bLacKjAck.]

How did I know this thread was going to be this long?:yawn:

 

[thesinner]

How did I know this thread was going to be this long?:yawn:

1 word: glutamine

It's like the AM equivalent to debating abortion right's

 

[jmh80]

personally i say the only knowledge that counts is applied knowledge

i wanna see some photos of some of these experts who rattle of pubmed this, pubmed that or the guys who say glutamine did this, did that, to see if their physiques match the words they type, cause any fool can go around regurgitating whatever they've read or heard, the proof is in the pudding people

i don't care if you're for or against glutamine i wanna see what really counts, real time results!! not what some boffin in a lab who's never lifted anything but a beaker and a pencil!!

put up or shut up

b
:thumbsup:

If you wanna call me out - then just man the f*ck up, grow some balls, and say "hey Jmh80 - look, you've got Marzia in your av and most of your posts make you seem like a pencil-necked geek that watches Star Wars all day so I think you are really about 115 lbs with 8" arms and no d*ck and balls".
I won't get all pissy and sh*t - I'm not a woman.
But, as Ice Cube said - best check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/pics/26762-jmh80s-hormone-free.html
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/bioscience-technologies/42509-jmh80s-m-tst.html

Now - those pics are from a while ago. You could accuse me of porking up and/or losing all the mass I accumulated.
I was at 167 lbs yesterday - not sure what my measurements are. So - I'd have had to totally reverse recomp myself since the end of TST/TRN to remain at 167 (at 5'11") and be a fat azz and have no muscle.
Far cry from the 130 lbs I was at when I started lifting weights (that was at 17 years old - I say 140 lbs in the thread at 20 years old).

Biceps still have the peak that Glen liked.


If you want to dispute my abilities to asses knowledge or science - then go right ahead.
I can scan my diploma from college. It says "Jmh80 - Summa Cum Laude graduate in Chemical Engineering with a minor in Materials Science and Engineering".
I'll scan what's right beside that in a drawer in my desk - the plaque that says "Jmh80 - THE top graduate in the whole damn college in 2004" (aka out of 2500+ students).

I say bull-f*cking-sh*t on anyone's assessment of applied knowledge.
For all I know, everyone else's design and implementation of experiment is full of sh*t. You could have took M1T and 4-AD with that kilo of glutamine for all I know and said your results were from glutamine.
If you want something done right - do it yourself.


Now - I'm telling you (and everyone else) that I haven't seen sh*t from glutamine (be it peptide form or free form). That term (sh*t) is quite technical also.


Alright - I'm going to bed - I've become quite surely in my demeanor.

 

[MATSFITNESS]

:good: 10 gm glutmine a day keeps the pain away and helps natural growth production. been using for years staple part of supps.