Caffeine equals five times cortisol release Posttraining - AnabolicMinds.com

Caffeine equals five times cortisol release Posttraining

  1. John Smeton's Avatar
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    Caffeine equals five times cortisol release Posttraining


    I dotn know how true this is but on myspace account a research company doing Bodybuilding studies sent this.







    Effects of caffeine on muscle glycogen utilization and the neuroendocrine axis during exercise.
    Category: Life






    J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Jun;85(6):2170-5

    To examine the effect of caffeine ingestion on muscle glycogen utilization and the neuroendocrine axis during exercise, we studied 20 muscle glycogen-loaded subjects who were given placebo or caffeine (6 mg/kg) in a double blinded fashion 90 min before cycling for 2 h at 65% of their maximal oxygen consumption. Exercise-induced glycogen depletion in the thigh muscle was noninvasively measured by means of 13C nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy (NMR) spectroscopy, and plasma concentrations of substrates and neuroendocrine hormones, including beta-endorphins, were also assessed. Muscle glycogen content was increased 140% above normal values on the caffeine trial day (P < 0.001). After cycling for 2 h, caffeine ingestion was associated with a greater increase in plasma lactate (caffeine: +1.0 +/- 0.2 mmol/L; placebo, +0.1 +/- 0.2 mmol/L; P < 0.005), epinephrine (caffeine, +223 +/- 82 pg/mL; placebo, +56 +/- 26 pg/mL; P < 0.05), and cortisol (caffeine, +12 +/- 3 mg/mL; placebo, +2 +/- 2 mg/mL; P < 0.001) levels. However, plasma free fatty acid concentrations increased (caffeine, +814 +/- 133 mmol/L; placebo, +785 +/- 85 mmol/L; P = NS), and muscle glycogen content decreased (caffeine, -57 +/- 6 mmol/L muscle; placebo, -53 +/- 5 mmol/L muscle; P = NS) to the same extent in both groups. At the same time, plasma beta-endorphin levels almost doubled (from 30 +/- 5 to 53 +/- 13 pg/mL; P < 0.05) in the caffeine-treated group, whereas no change occurred in the placebo group. We conclude that caffeine ingestion 90 min before prolonged exercise does not exert a muscle glycogen-sparing effect in athletes with high muscle glycogen content. However, these data suggest that caffeine lowers the threshold for exercise-induced beta-endorphin and cortisol release, which may contribute to the reported benefits of caffeine on exercise endurance.






    so what does this study mean? Well the people who ingested caffeine before workout released 5x more cortisol than the placebo group who did not ingest caffeine. How many of you take caffeine for a product that contains caffeine? If you do, then you NEED to recognize the cortisol increasing effects and do something to minimize that. There is only one ingredient with studies on wight lifters, not rats, on decreasing cortisol. That ingredient is Phosphatidylserine. The minimum dose for cortisol supression is 400 mg. Our Preload is the only product to have PS and at an effective dose.


    For those who don't know, cortisol release increases muscle breakdown. Cortisol is neccessary but you want oavoid high amounts. In studies it has been shown to increase abdominal fat in men. Interestingly, caffeine intake increases cortisol release in men, more so than women, under psychological stress and well as physical stress.

  2. Rivet's Avatar
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    I don't know anything about the research itself but this line "Our Preload is the only product to have PS and at an effective dose."
    Makes it seems like they are just spammers (who can't spell).
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    It's probably good to note that 6 mg/kg is quite a bit of caffeine. For me - that's like 460 mgs. I don't know many pre-WO formulas that have that level of caffeine (maybe NO Xplode - I think it's in the 350 to 400 range for 2 scoops - but that's just how I feel on it).

    I'd say many guys take 200 mgs. pre-WO (or so).
    Just not sure if the cort. response is linear with respect to caffeine ingestion. That would be important to know (i.e. does 200 mgs only release 2X as much cort).
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80 View Post
    It's probably good to note that 6 mg/kg is quite a bit of caffeine. For me - that's like 460 mgs. I don't know many pre-WO formulas that have that level of caffeine (maybe NO Xplode - I think it's in the 350 to 400 range for 2 scoops - but that's just how I feel on it).

    I'd say many guys take 200 mgs. pre-WO (or so).
    Just not sure if the cort. response is linear with respect to caffeine ingestion. That would be important to know (i.e. does 200 mgs only release 2X as much cort).
    I highly doubt it's linear. I highly doubt there's a 1st order reaction relating caffeine to cortisol.
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    In Interested in finding how true this is. Bump...this studies look legit to me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet View Post
    I don't know anything about the research itself but this line "Our Preload is the only product to have PS and at an effective dose."
    Makes it seems like they are just spammers (who can't spell).
    Hmmm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet View Post
    I don't know anything about the research itself but this line "Our Preload is the only product to have PS and at an effective dose."
    Makes it seems like they are just spammers (who can't spell).
    maybe they should look at ALRI's venom which includes a much more potent anicortisol agent in mBAET. i would think this would counteract this negative effect of caffeine. the venom formula makes so much sense putting it all together. author might have been on to something
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    In Interested in finding how true this is. Bump...this studies look legit to me
    In my opinion, Nothing on Mypace is worth trusting,...
    (even the females )

    ...as I spend all freakn day there
  9. Pfunk47's Avatar
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    Take that study with a grain of salt IMO, Cortisol is the "in" word right now - Higher/lower levels of Cort affect each of us in different ways - Other hormonal levels as well as body compositions determine corts affects on the body as well. That is one study done on "overweight" but healthy people - Below is a decent explanation of it all


    Cortisol is not all bad - in the end with the caffeine it raises Cort which in turn releases more FFA into the blood stream which paired with the caffeine - it burns more free fatty acid

    of course this is not how it works with most but in the bodybuilding aspect of it with correct diet/training and such - this is how I look at it.

    I am sure if you have seen but if not there are tons of studies out there that show how caffeine burns up FFA so again IMO we as BB should be ingesting that caffeine during cutting and not worrying about it.

    Cortisol - Is NOT a Nasty Little Hormone



    Cortisol - Is NOT a Nasty Little Hormone

    There is a new television advertisement promoting a 'revolutionary' product that suppresses cortisol for weight loss. The ad refers to cortisol as a "nasty little hormone" that creates fat around the stomach and hips. By taking their 'weight-loss pill', cortisol is suppressed and weight loss occurs - just like that. Oh, but there's a catch.


    Cortisol is NOT a nasty little hormone, and by suppressing it, the body's immune system can become seriously depressed and its hormonal balance severely knocked out of balance. Before any one hormone is ever altered and/or suppressed, a hormone analysis should be performed so all hormone levels are regulated and balanced synergistically.

    Cortisol is a steroid hormone made in the adrenal glands, which are small glands adjacent to the kidneys. Cortisol is released in the body during stress; hence is called the "stress hormone." But cortisol is more than a simple marker of stress levels - it is necessary for the function of almost every part of the body.

    Cortisol is synthesized from cholesterol and acts through specific intracellular receptors to affect numerous physiologic systems including immune function, glucose counter regulation, vascular tone, and bone metabolism. A pretty important hormone, if you ask me.

    Excess production of cortisol is on the rise in today's world because the level of stress in modern society is on going and increasing. So in turn, weight gain is on the rise in part due to increasing stress. Suppressing cortisol by using drugs is not the solution, nonetheless - decreasing stress, exercising regularly, eating correctly, and balancing the entire hormonal system is the answer to a 'hormonally-related' weight gain. So, don't blame unwarranted weight gain just on this very important hormone.

    Cortisol's important functions in the body include the regulation of blood pressure and cardiovascular function as well as regulation of the body's use of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats. Cortisol secretion increases in response to any stress to the body, whether physical such as illness, trauma, surgery, or temperature extremes, or psychological. Cortisol levels in normal individuals are highest in the early morning at around 6:00 - 8:00 am and are lowest around midnight. In addition to early morning, cortisol levels may be highest after meals.

    There are thousands of weight loss programs, foods, and dietary supplements on the market today. The truth is, most pharmaceutical "controls" of weight management fail because when our bodies store excess weight, an underlying imbalance or lifestyle issue is typically at the root - even if the root is hormonal.

    That's why it is important to target weight management using a whole body approach that addresses the wide variety of factors contributing to weight such as stress management, regular exercise habits, healthy eating routines and dietary habits. If hormones are at the root of weight gain, then a hormone test is recommended and imbalances properly addressed.

    While the most common measurement of the cortisol level used to be in the blood, most practitioners now measure cortisol through saliva, as salivary cortisol levels have been shown to be a more accurate hormonal index.

    Cortisol is a hormone that exerts good effects in the body. Cortisol releases glucose and amino acids for cellular energy and is associated with the "fight or flight" response. Whenever you're under stress, whenever you're sleep-deprived, or whenever you're actually dieting and restricting calories for weight loss, your body senses that it is under stress and releases its primary stress hormone, cortisol.

    Excess cortisol signals your brain to sense hunger and can increase appetite. If stress levels are not maintained and other hormonal levels are not regulated to balance the cortisol levels, then excess cortisol can stimulate water and fat cell retention, primarily in the abdominal region. Elevated cortisol can also alter metabolic signals controlling blood sugar. By bringing cortisol back into a normal range, appetite is under better control, blood sugar remains normal, and fat cells continue to release fat.

    But, lowering cortisol levels through forceful medications is not the solution to long-term, healthy weight management. The natural solutions are:

    * Lower stress.
    * Monitor all hormone levels.
    * Exercise regularly; recommended four to five times a week.
    * Eat less processed and packaged foods, processed oils and fake sugar substitutes.
    * Don't eat after five or six at night.

    A word of caution: Cortisol inhibitors can negatively react with medications. It is advisable for individuals taking aspirin or other anticoagulant substances on a daily basis to consult with a physician if taking cortisol inhibitors.

    And certain drugs can lead to increased cortisol levels. Examples include the diuretic spironolactone and estrogen hormone therapy. Low cortisol levels can be caused by drug therapies with androgens or the anti-seizure medication phenytoin .

    Highly trained athletes typically have higher-than-average cortisol levels, and women in the last trimester of pregnancy also generally have elevated cortisol levels. Recent research has even shown that drinking two to three cups of coffee per day can elevate cortisol levels. Likely due to the increased physical and psychological stresses associated with these conditions, persons suffering from depression, anxiety, panic disorder, malnutrition and alcohol abuse also often have elevated cortisol values. Rare tumors of the adrenal glands or pituitary gland can also lead to abnormally high levels of cortisol.
    When cortisol is secreted, it causes:

    1. A breakdown of muscle protein, leading to the release of amino acids (which are the "building blocks" of protein) into the bloodstream.
    2. These amino acids are then used by the liver to synthesize glucose for energy in a process called gluconeogenesis.
    3. This process raises the blood sugar level so the brain will have more glucose for energy.
    4. At the same time, the other tissues of the body decrease their use of glucose as fuel.
    5. Cortisol also leads to the release of so-called fatty acids, an energy source from fat cells, for use by the muscles.
    6. Together, these energy-directing processes prepare the individual to deal with stresses and ensures that the brain receives adequate energy supplies.

    The body naturally possesses an elaborate feedback system for controlling cortisol secretion and regulating the amount of cortisol in the bloodstream. If healthy, you should not have to depend on a medication to do this for you.

    * The pituitary gland , a small gland at the base of the brain, makes and secretes a hormone known as adrenocorticotrophin, or ACTH.
    * Secretion of ACTH signals the adrenal glands to increase cortisol production and secretion when needed.
    * The pituitary also receives signals from the hypothalamus of the brain in the form of the hormone CRH , or corticotropin-releasing hormone, which signals the pituitary to release ACTH.

    Almost immediately after a stressful event, the levels of the regulatory hormones ACTH and CRH increase, causing an immediate rise in cortisol levels. When cortisol is present in adequate (or excess) amounts, a negative feedback system operates on the pituitary gland and hypothalamus, which alerts these areas to reduce the output of ACTH and CRH, respectively, in order to reduce cortisol secretion when adequate levels are present.

    There are natural ways to reduce stress and maintain cortisol levels. Magnolia Bark, Epimedium, Theanine, Banaba leaf, green tea, Beta-sitosterols, chromium, and vanadium are natural methods to suppress cortisol and reduce the effects of stress. But be cautious if using these products often, and maintain frequent hormonal checks if doing so.

    Magnolia Bark (Magnolia officinalis) is a traditional Chinese medicine used since 100 A.D. rich in magnolol and honokiol. These two active compounds are believed to contribute to the primary anti-stress and cortisol- balancing effects of the plant. Numerous animal studies have demonstrated honokiol acts as an anti-stress agent at low doses.

    Epimedium is grown as an ornamental herb in Asia and the Mediterranean regions. Animal studies have shown that epimedium promotes healthy levels of epinephrine, norepinephrine, serotonin, and dopamine, but reduces elevated cortisol levels. Animal studies using epimedium have shown a reduction in bone breakdown, an increase in muscle mass, and a loss of body fat - each of which is linked to the observed reduction of elevated cortisol to normal levels.

    Theanine is a unique amino acid found in the leaves of green tea (Camellia sinensis) and acts as a stress reliever. As such, theanine in green tea may be effective in combating tension, stress, and anxiety-without inducing drowsiness.

    In the diet, plant oils contain the highest concentration of beta-sitosterol, nuts and seeds contain fairly high levels, and Beta-sitosterol is found in large amounts in fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds. Researchers conclude that beta-sitosterol is effective in regulating the stress response by managing cortisol levels within a normal range. Beta-sitosterol has been shown to rebuild hormones such as DHEA.

    Banaba leaf helps the body balance blood sugar and insulin levels and may help some people resist the urge to snack between meals. High sugar levels and chronic insulin levels can lead to increased storage of fats and inhibition of the pancreatic enzyme lipase. High levels of insulin and/or reduced blood sugar can promote unnecessary cravings, which may lead to bingeing. A clinical study found that Banaba leaf supplementation resulted in a mean loss of body weight of 1.25 and 2.4 pounds after 15 and 30 days, respectively.

    Chromium acts as a co-factor for insulin and is essential for normal insulin function. Insulin resistance can lead to increased weight gain. The level of insulin is proportional to body fat content and influences satiety. Insulin levels are maintained within a healthy range by both chromium and vanadium.

    Vanadium has been shown to stimulate glucose uptake and glycogen synthesis. It has also been shown to maintain normal insulin sensitivity. A hair analysis will show an individual's chromium and vanadium levels.

    There are thousands of weight loss programs, foods, and dietary supplements on the market today. The truth is, most weight management approaches fail because our bodies adapt to create defense systems to thwart unnatural attempts to loose weight. That's why it is important to target weight management with a whole body approach that addresses the wide variety of factors WHY weight gain is a problem.

    Cortisol is NOT a nasty little hormone solely responsible for unwarranted weight around the abdomen. Cortisol is not the root issue to weight gain but merely a reaction to a deeper cause, and suppressing normal cortisol levels can create immunity issues and adrenal burn-out.

    Dig deeper than quick fixes and forceful medications that temporarily patch weight symptoms. Address the 'root' cause of weight gain for a long-term healthy solution to weight gain.

    Anderson RA. Chromium, glucose intolerance and diabetes. J.Am.Coll.Nutr. 1998;17:548-55.
    Grossman SP. The role of glucose, insulin and glucagon in the regulation of food intake and body weight. Neurosci Biobehav Rev 2001;pp.295-315.
    Suzuki Y, Unno T, U****ani M, Hayashi K, Kakuda T. Antiobesity activity of extracts from Lagerstroemia speciosa L. leaves on female KK-Ay mice. J Nutr Sci Vitaminol.(Tokyo) 1999;45:791-5.
    Zhu JS, Yu H, Yin W. Tegreen Improves glucose and lipid metabolism in obese rats that have features similar to Metabolic Syndrome X. Presented at FASEB, April 2003, San Diego, CA.
    Related:

    Cortisol:
    What is cortisol?
    What is the best way to test cortisol levels?
    Do medications affect cortisol?
    How do you treat excess cortisol?
  10. drdeadlift's Avatar
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    What a great rebuttal to the cortisol confusion. Thanks pfunk.
  11. John Smeton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pfunk47 View Post
    Highly trained athletes typically have higher-than-average cortisol levels, and women in the last trimester of pregnancy also generally have elevated cortisol levels. Recent research has even shown that drinking two to three cups of coffee per day can elevate cortisol levels. Likely due to the increased physical and psychological stresses associated with these conditions, persons suffering from depression, anxiety, panic disorder, malnutrition and alcohol abuse also often have elevated cortisol values. Rare tumors of the adrenal glands or pituitary gland can also lead to abnormally high levels of cortisol.
    When cortisol is secreted, it causes:

    1. A breakdown of muscle protein, leading to the release of amino acids (which are the "building blocks" of protein) into the bloodstream.
    2. These amino acids are then used by the liver to synthesize glucose for energy in a process called gluconeogenesis.
    3. This process raises the blood sugar level so the brain will have more glucose for energy.
    4. At the same time, the other tissues of the body decrease their use of glucose as fuel.
    5. Cortisol also leads to the release of so-called fatty acids, an energy source from fat cells, for use by the muscles.
    6. Together, these energy-directing processes prepare the individual to deal with stresses and ensures that the brain receives adequate energy supplies.

    The body naturally possesses an elaborate feedback system for controlling cortisol secretion and regulating the amount of cortisol in the bloodstream. If healthy, you should not have to depend on a medication to do this for you.
    I dont know but this article does have a point. Atheletics generally have higher cortisol levels. Also Coffee-AKA CAFFIENE USERS have higher cortisol. Doesnt it make sense that training along produces cortisol and caffeine with it would produce more...

    To me it does. Id like to find out more FACTS about this...but for now caffeine is out for me. Ill try the supplement Dsade's recommends Clear Edge. I also plan to try Hordiene. Dont mean to get off topic..let the debates begin
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    I dont know but this article does have a point. Atheletics generally have higher cortisol levels. Also Coffee-AKA CAFFIENE USERS have higher cortisol. Doesnt it make sense that training along produces cortisol and caffeine with it would produce more...

    To me it does. Id like to find out more FACTS about this...but for now caffeine is out for me. Ill try the supplement Dsade's recommends Clear Edge. I also plan to try Hordiene. Dont mean to get off topic..let the debates begin
    True. Maybe this was part of my huge muscle loss last year during cutting. I was using a lot of those.. It makes a lot of sense. I do beleive that once or twice a week when working on your weakest bodyparts would be a good strategy to keep it effective, and limit the cortisol enhancing effects of caf.
  13. Eat The Poor's Avatar
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    So would taking a thermogenic with caffeine negate the effects of a product like Retain or Lean Xtreme?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eat The Poor View Post
    So would taking a thermogenic with caffeine negate the effects of a product like Retain or Lean Xtreme?
    I think taking a cortisol blocker would be beneficial with a thermogenic. Is it worth it to use a fat burner? I don't think that the answer is clear yet.
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    I don't care if I turn into a stick man. I'm drinking coffee. LOTS of coffee. bunch a @#$%&*#$@ BS.
  16. John Smeton's Avatar
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    After testing Caffiene for one month my conclusion for Caffeine use is :
    -Low mg Caffeine use is ok.I did 125 mgs.
    -Cycle off of it for time to time. (Example after this week Im replacing Caffiene with Clear Edge) I wouldnt do it all the time; although you might can take it the body feels a need for a break. Caffiene receptors or adrenals feel worn out, like they need a break.
    - I do think Caffiene is benifical for Fatloss and going to even go as far as lifting;however many people make the mistake of taking this too far and end up over doing caffiene use which thats where it comes into excess cortisol release. My summary is to use a mild to moderate mild, Ill stick on the safe side of cortosil release and do a mild dose, and to cycle it , giving yourself a break from it.
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    Cycling stims it is the trick. Hard to do but works wonders for me. I haven't used anything stronger then caffeine since my last time however. I don't feel the need for anything stronger anymore...
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    Take it for what its worth... the Full article.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagleaso View Post
    Take it for what its worth... the Full article.
    that study looked legit to me. and lets not forget the estrogen increasing and insulin resistant effects from caffeine as well.

    hey smeton, since you like your PEA/hord combo so much it might be worth noting that caffeine may(not enitely sure) stimulate excessive dopamine release and block uptake receptors.

    caffeine has a pretty big chemical effect. it binds to adenosine, releases epinephrine and norepinephrine, inhibits GABA among other actions. its much more complicated than most people think. the adrenaline it gives has to be the cause for increased cortisol. it makes sense on paper.
  20. John Smeton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WannaBeHulk View Post
    that study looked legit to me. and lets not forget the estrogen increasing and insulin resistant effects from caffeine as well.

    hey smeton, since you like your PEA/hord combo so much it might be worth noting that caffeine may(not enitely sure) stimulate excessive dopamine release and block uptake receptors.

    caffeine has a pretty big chemical effect. it binds to adenosine, releases epinephrine and norepinephrine, inhibits GABA among other actions. its much more complicated than most people think. the adrenaline it gives has to be the cause for increased cortisol. it makes sense on paper.
    My Dad drinks six cups of coffee in the morning , he has been doing it ever since he was eighteen, hes fifty-three, He drinks caffiene thoughtout the day , Diet Dr Peppers, Sweet tea, Ive watched him drink strong cups of tea before bed and go to sleep. Ive saw him when he doesnt have his caffeine like when hes sick in bed, he is a zombie.If he doesnt have his coffee in the morning he isnt functioning properly, it appears. I think you may be right about caffiene stimulating dopamine so in essence if you take Pea/Hord once a week or possibily everyday its no worse than strong coffee drinkers. I dont think Pea /Hord should be taking everyday; however if you want to take it a week or two strait I think it is safe ;provided that you dont use without too long of a break...maybe like a month. And if you do you use everyday Hey...your like a strong coffee drinker, a Zombie without it. so Im not advising everday use but I think it is extremely possible to be very safe with Pea/Hord. Or you can just use it on special occisons like your Birthday, Easter,or Vacations.

    Didnt mean to get off subject because the subject is Caff and Cort release......No more Caff use for me unless its a mild dose. Once a in while if you really need a big pep up than its ok.Like say your on vacation and you want to drink some rasberry sweet tea and the tea leaves are erotic and contain five hundred mgs of caffiene. thats ok. Ok I think everyone gets the point. Too much Caffiene , esp in larger doses, breaks down muscle. and it might in smaller doses, but if it does well the research keeps on, and right now good to know larger dose cause an increase in cortisol levels that are not benifical to muscle building.
  21. WannaBeHulk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    My Dad drinks six cups of coffee in the morning , he has been doing it ever since he was eighteen, hes fifty-three, He drinks caffiene thoughtout the day , Diet Dr Peppers, Sweet tea, Ive watched him drink strong cups of tea before bed and go to sleep. Ive saw him when he doesnt have his caffeine like when hes sick in bed, he is a zombie.If he doesnt have his coffee in the morning he isnt functioning properly, it appears. I think you may be right about caffiene stimulating dopamine so in essence if you take Pea/Hord once a week or possibily everyday its no worse than strong coffee drinkers. I dont think Pea /Hord should be taking everyday; however if you want to take it a week or two strait I think it is safe ;provided that you dont use without too long of a break...maybe like a month. And if you do you use everyday Hey...your like a strong coffee drinker, a Zombie without it. so Im not advising everday use but I think it is extremely possible to be very safe with Pea/Hord. Or you can just use it on special occisons like your Birthday, Easter,or Vacations.

    Didnt mean to get off subject because the subject is Caff and Cort release......No more Caff use for me unless its a mild dose. Once a in while if you really need a big pep up than its ok.Like say your on vacation and you want to drink some rasberry sweet tea and the tea leaves are erotic and contain five hundred mgs of caffiene. thats ok. Ok I think everyone gets the point. Too much Caffiene , esp in larger doses, breaks down muscle. and it might in smaller doses, but if it does well the research keeps on, and right now good to know larger dose cause an increase in cortisol levels that are not benifical to muscle building.
    damn, your dad really takes in that much caffeine each day?! no wonder hes a zombie when he doesnt get his fix. relying on caffeine to stimulate the CNS over long time periods will result in adaptation and his body will become inefficient at producing his own hormones (in this case adrenaline). i would also think that the negative sides of caffeine would weaken and not have as much of an impact in habitual caffeine users.

    you are right on the money with your thoughts on caffeine and PEA/hord use. both of these are relatively safe but when abuse and constant stimulation occurs, it throws off brain chemistry. from what i understand though, the pathways involved with caffeine points towards evidence thats its not theoretically addictive. it seems to be a mental thing where your brain is trained to think that you need it to function properly and so withdrawal occurs. i had to overcome a similar problem with taking naps after works. if i didnt get my nap, i would feel completely lethargic because i was accustomed to this routine. after a few consistent days without, i felt fine and i no longer take naps.

    the issue with caffeine and cortisol doesnt seem that hard to counter. use it in conjunction with a cort blocker like retain in 2-4 week bursts then stop for awhile.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WannaBeHulk View Post
    maybe they should look at ALRI's venom which includes a much more potent anicortisol agent in mBAET. i would think this would counteract this negative effect of caffeine. the venom formula makes so much sense putting it all together. author might have been on to something
    Id be very hesitant to play with cortisol lowering compounds (PS excluded, although even there its a bit iffy) especially when they are hormonal and build up in the system.

    From someone who used an anti-cortisol compound while dieting over the summer, lets just say its just added to the toll ive been paying for my current adrenal insufficiency....caused by.....inadequate cortisol.

    Cortisol is not the enemy.....its the stress that causes cortisol in the first place that is. lower that, and keep cortisol in check naturally.

    For those worried about working and cortisol, work out less and be more efficient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottyo View Post
    Id be very hesitant to play with cortisol lowering compounds (PS excluded, although even there its a bit iffy) especially when they are hormonal and build up in the system.

    From someone who used an anti-cortisol compound while dieting over the summer, lets just say its just added to the toll ive been paying for my current adrenal insufficiency....caused by.....inadequate cortisol.

    Cortisol is not the enemy.....its the stress that causes cortisol in the first place that is. lower that, and keep cortisol in check naturally.

    For those worried about working and cortisol, work out less and be more efficient.

    I am with you on this one, but I do feel it necessary to point out that I think anti-cortisol compounds do have their place in proper PCT administration.
  24. DaveGabe24's Avatar
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    Entrez PubMed

    Here is another study done that suggests the cortisol enhanced properties of supplementing caffeine.

    However, I am noticing a consistency amongst these studies. All the caffeine doses have been well over 400+mg. Thist study I posted was 250mg x 3. Most of us have our 200mg pre-workout. So I'm going to do some more research in the next few hours and hopefully find out that it is the excess amount of caffeine in these studies that is responsible for the enhanced production of coristol.
  25. DaveGabe24's Avatar
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    Here's a study done on Ephedrine + Caffeine supplementation:
    Entrez PubMed
    "The thermogenic effect after E+C (20 mg/200mg) was larger than that of any other combinations, and E and C exerted a supra-additive synergism on thermogenesis and systolic blood pressure, while being without effect on diastolic blood pressure. The combination also had pronounced effects on glucose metabolism by increasing plasma glucose, insulin and C-peptide concentrations. During chronic treatment the effect of E+C on energy expenditure is maintained, while side effects subside because tolerance develops to its hemodynamic and metabolic effects."

    Here is a study of a caffeine and caffeine/ephedrine mixture. They dosed it 20/200, 3x a day for 24 weeks:
    Entrez PubMed
    "In another randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled 8 week study on obese subjects we found the mentioned compound showed lean body mass conserving properties. We conclude that the ephedrine/caffeine combination is effective in improving and maintaining weight loss, further it has lean body mass saving properties. The side effects are minor and transient and no withdrawal symptoms have been found."


    It appears to have some mixed results, but I am starting to believe that it has a strong dependency on the amount dosed. Hope this helps everyone out a bit, I will be doing more and more research over the next few days to help.
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    Just some idiot logic (I have a lot of that ) but if caffeine helps you push harder, wouldn't a heightened cortisol release be expected from a more intense workout?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Just some idiot logic (I have a lot of that ) but if caffeine helps you push harder, wouldn't a heightened cortisol release be expected from a more intense workout?
    Yeah sounds like you hit the nail on the head.

    As you all may know one of the properties of cortisol is regulating blood sugar in times of stress so...maybe since caffeine leads to increased intensity, more cortisol is required to balance under the more intense stress.
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    Granted that thought process abbreviates a few hundred biochemical reactions, I would imagine whatever the cortisol increase caffeine causes is, we're probably releasing twice as much by getting our panties in a bunch worrying about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Granted that thought process abbreviates a few hundred biochemical reactions, I would imagine whatever the cortisol increase caffeine causes is, we're probably releasing twice as much by getting our panties in a bunch worrying about it.
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    Interesting studies DaveGabe. I've been taking SMASH for the last month and it has the 200mg like a bunch of other pre-WO supps. I think in the future I'm going to do caffeine-free pre-WO as my mainstay, and only some caffeine if I really need the kick though.
  31. DaveGabe24's Avatar
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    I have been putting some thought into this and here's what I came up with:

    Say you have a burning flame...and then you decide to add fuel to this flame. The flame will burn much brighter and more heat and smoke will be produced as a result. Is it then safe to say that fuel creates heat and smoke? Or is it because the flame is burning brighter that it's now hotter and more smokey.

    That is what I feel is essentially happening. The testers were given caffeine in a given doseage and then performed at an accelerated rate. Well of course cortisol was released because our body needs an X amount under Y amount of intensity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    I highly doubt it's linear. I highly doubt there's a 1st order reaction relating caffeine to cortisol.
    i dont know why you'd doubt this...it's actually pretty likely.

    i bet the cortisol stimulation of clen is astronomical. nothing fries the adrenals like clen. if it didnt work so well, i'd never use it. i just feel gripped up 24/7, like the day after a coke binge...
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    If you do too much caff then yes coritsol is an iddue and eats away hard earn muscle. Less than 400 maybe , If I do Caff I do 200 mgs or less pre-training. and its best to cycle off this stim because too much results in Adenral ***tiue. I think the best rest from AF is a break just taking it easy. No stims at all.

    Oh and maybe the new Reset AD thing works too dont know, havn't tryed it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    I dotn know how true this is but on myspace account a research company doing Bodybuilding studies sent this.



    so what does this study mean? Well the people who ingested caffeine before workout released 5x more cortisol than the placebo group who did not ingest caffeine. How many of you take caffeine for a product that contains caffeine? If you do, then you NEED to recognize the cortisol increasing effects and do something to minimize that. There is only one ingredient with studies on wight lifters, not rats, on decreasing cortisol. That ingredient is Phosphatidylserine. The minimum dose for cortisol supression is 400 mg. Our Preload is the only product to have PS and at an effective dose.


    For those who don't know, cortisol release increases muscle breakdown. Cortisol is neccessary but you want oavoid high amounts. In studies it has been shown to increase abdominal fat in men. Interestingly, caffeine intake increases cortisol release in men, more so than women, under psychological stress and well as physical stress.

    this study was done on athletes doing an endurance training session. during endurance training, cortisol is produced in abundance and is in fact necessary for maximal performance enhancement as it helps mobilize lipids and keeps the blood sugar high by increasing gluconeogenesis in the liver.

    You should not make any comparisons between this and bodybuilding training unless you are talking about intense cardio sessions. And in that case, cortisol increase actually would be somewhat desirable as long as it is accomapanied by a corresponding increase in catecholamines (i.e. epinephrine)

    catecholamines have an anti-catabolic effect on muscle which helps spare the muscle from the ravages of cortisol. Addtionally, catecholamines work in conjunction with cortisol to help lipolysis

    the caffeine here raised both epinephrine and cortisol, indicating that it is acting exactly as it should. also, caffeine is known to increase insulin levels which could further have helped protect muscle protein. would have been interesting to see what GH levels were too
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    I came to the conclusion to just dont go too high when doing and......and cycle off it to give your adrenals a rest. Tested it for one month. Highest dose gone was one gram which was too much and felt burnt. dose which seems to work for me,125 mgs

    are you saying that cortisol and the endurance atheletes, because some of us here do cardio, that it isnt recommended?

    Thanks for your Input
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    for me, the most effective energy support with the least health risks is hands down yerba mate. yes, it does contain methylxanthines, but it has more to it than caffeine. it also includes amounts of theophylline which has no PNS activity. i think this is why ive never developed a tolerance to yerba mate. 1 brewed cup equals about 80-120mg caffeine. the mood boost and mental clarity exceed the effects of caffeine alone. its good stuff and healthy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea View Post
    I came to the conclusion to just dont go too high when doing and......and cycle off it to give your adrenals a rest. Tested it for one month. Highest dose gone was one gram which was too much and felt burnt. dose which seems to work for me,125 mgs

    are you saying that cortisol and the endurance atheletes, because some of us here do cardio, that it isnt recommended?

    Thanks for your Input

    no, caffeine is a good thing for endurance athletes and when you do cardio.

    Bottom line is, acute cortisol increase in conjunction with epinephrine increase and insulin increase (all of which are seen when you drink coffee) is probably a good thing here. the other two hormones should negate any of the catabolic problems. Also, cortisol and epinephrine will work hand in hand to help liberate free fatty acids from bodyfat stores. If GH goes up as well then even better

    short term cortisol increases, when accompanied by increases in other key hormones, is sometimes desirable

    its not as simple as "cortisol is always bad"
  

  
 

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