neovar and igf-2

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  1. neovar and igf-2


    has anyone herd of these supplements? Do you know if they are safe, and is if-2 a steroid?


  2. You sit tight kind sir.... all the info on these supplements will be coming your way in the very near future. (wink)

    The company, Applied Nutriceuticals, has a website that is full of info on their products, complete with labels, and condensed and technical writeups.

    Short answer: The products are safe. NeoVar is a CEE product, and IGF-2 is an herbal supplement... nothing illegal there: Quality supplement, quality ingredient profile.

    (Trying to walk the line Bobo... no links or anything...)

    EDIT: Appreciated
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  3. sorry for asking so many questions...but is there any side effects? Is it legal for highschool sports?

  4. No need to apologize man.
    The ingredients in both products you mentioned, as well as the rest of the line, are completely safe for use, with none of the bad sides that come along with PH's, Steroids, etc.

    To say that there are no side effects at all would misleading though. A supplement manufacturer would be reeeeally going out on a limb to make a flat out statement like there are no side effects.

    Examples of some side effects would be increased increased oiliness from the boost in test, possibly some zits resulting from the piliness. But these are side effects you will see with any testosterone boosting supplement.

    With that being said, I guess I should ask your age? The high school comment was a giveaway.

    These products are completely LEGAL for use by people in high school, however, your specific school may have regulations on supplement use of any kind. It'd be a good idea to check with a coach on this. Most supplements (other than proteins, etc.) carry a warning that they are not for use by people under 21 or 18. This is due to the fact that your body is already accomplishing enough on it's own.
    Also, of course it's always a good idea to check with your medical care provider before beginning use of any supplement regimen. If you have more in-depth questions, google the company and see what you can find.

  5. since I'm only 17 will the igf-2 mess with my body??
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by patc12303
    since I'm only 17 will the igf-2 mess with my body??
    "Mess with your body" sounds so negative.............

    At your age, your main focus should be food, sleep, maybe a multivitamin and some protein. A creatine product maybe.

    The IGF-2 isn't necessarily needed right now, as your body should be running full speed on it's own. Save the Test boosters for a few more years down the road. For now, focus on fundamentals: Learn as much as you can, eat well, get started on true weightlifting.

    This will sound like someone talking down... but it is simply the truth man. You can probably find someone that will say, "Hey take this (fill in the blank)..... it'll get you going fast! That guy on AM.com doesn't know what he's talking about". But keep in mind, anyone worth their weight won't be recommending their test boosting type products to a 17 year old.

    Summary:
    1) Research.
    2) Eat.

  7. ok thanks for all the advice. I will be going with kre alkalyn pills,animal pack for multi vitamin,protein,and is there anything else necessary?

  8. Some EFA's wouldn't hurt you either. Good for anyone's health.
    As for creatine... if you're going to give it a go, the NeoVar will most likely outperform Kre-Alkalyn.

  9. Do you have a sn?

  10. Pardon my igorance here.... sn stands for?

  11. screen name.. aol instant messanger

  12. I was wondering if you could help me create a bulking diet.

  13. Easier said than done my friend.... to do it right would be a big commitment.
    Do some searching for Beverly International. When you find their site, there are tons of articles there detailing diets, etc. they have constructed for others. A valuable resource.
    Applied Nutriceuticals also has some articles of value on their site. Hope this helps you out.

  14. Thanks... I found the site,but I just need someone to help me create a plan because I want to be deicated to this

  15. Look like very good products from a well researched up and coming company.

    I will be testing these two starting from next week.
    IGF-2 30 days.
    Neovar 14 days.

    I will put a review on here but my Log will be on another Forum.

  16. I do not wish to cause trouble, but may I pose a question about the product? The actual profile looks sick, but it seems redundant to combine a HGH and Insulin formula within the same product. As I see it, lowering serum glucose levels before sleep would cause the Liver to release glycogen once REM is induced. As I understand it, this would induce gluconeogenesis, which is not the greatest state to be in. Once again, I think this could be an amazing product, just wondering on the dose and timing..

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    I do not wish to cause trouble, but may I pose a question about the product? The actual profile looks sick, but it seems redundant to combine a HGH and Insulin formula within the same product. As I see it, lowering serum glucose levels before sleep would cause the Liver to release glycogen once REM is induced. As I understand it, this would induce gluconeogenesis, which is not the greatest state to be in. Once again, I think this could be an amazing product, just wondering on the dose and timing..
    Mullet, no trouble caused.
    Please bear with me as I type this without checking any references.........
    I assume you're referring to the IGF-2: but which specific ingredients?

    Edit: LMAO to the quote in your sig

  18. On the website it doesn't say to dose at bedtime, rather morning, afternoon, and evening. Maybe before sleep wasn't how it's recommended to be taken I don't know. On the flip side, taking it at night would produce gluconeagenesis in the liver but also facilitate Ketosis, which if your low carbing would be a benefit.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!



  19. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier
    I do not wish to cause trouble, but may I pose a question about the product? The actual profile looks sick, but it seems redundant to combine a HGH and Insulin formula within the same product. As I see it, lowering serum glucose levels before sleep would cause the Liver to release glycogen once REM is induced. As I understand it, this would induce gluconeogenesis, which is not the greatest state to be in. Once again, I think this could be an amazing product, just wondering on the dose and timing..
    I asked the owner of AN this question and here is what he replied:

    I'm not really understanding what you are trying to ask- but here is what I can tell you:

    1. IGF-2 is not a GH and insulin product- it promotes GH release, along with testosterone enhancement and a cortisol-lowering effect in a synergistic manner.

    2. IGF-2 raises GH levels prior/during the first part of sleep, resulting in higher blood glucose levels, not lower- thus preserving the amino acid pool during the "nutritional dead time" of sleep- this has an actual muscle-sparing effect.

    3. The night-time dose is meant to be taken on an empty stomach 30 minutes before bed time.

    Does this answer your questions? If not, let us know.

    D
  20. For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  21. Safe assumption that you have your answer, Mullet?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Lanbane
    Safe assumption that you have your answer, Mullet?
    No, I was referring to Lipotrophin PM. Let me ask you this: Do you not find it contradictory to include ingredients which raise natural HGH production, while simultaneously modulating Insulin? Though at the applied dosage no real health concern is present, HGH blunts Insulin response at the Skeletal Mucle Delivery stage; conversely, Corosolic Acid exerts its blood glucose regulatory effect at the Plasma Membrane stage of regulation. IMO, at least, it would seem contradictory to increase membrane permeability while subtracting the delivery system. No?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    No, I was referring to Lipotrophin PM. Let me ask you this: Do you not find it contradictory to include ingredients which raise natural HGH production, while simultaneously modulating Insulin? Though at the applied dosage no real health concern is present, HGH blunts Insulin response at the Skeletal Mucle Delivery stage; conversely, Corosolic Acid exerts its blood glucose regulatory effect at the Plasma Membrane stage of regulation. IMO, at least, it would seem contradictory to increase membrane permeability while subtracting the delivery system. No?
    I see.

    Please pardon my confusion yet again, as Lipotrophin never came up in the previous discussion until you mentioned it above.
    Give us a few, and we'll get you an answer to that question.
  24. Cool


    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    No, I was referring to Lipotrophin PM. Let me ask you this: Do you not find it contradictory to include ingredients which raise natural HGH production, while simultaneously modulating Insulin? Though at the applied dosage no real health concern is present, HGH blunts Insulin response at the Skeletal Mucle Delivery stage; conversely, Corosolic Acid exerts its blood glucose regulatory effect at the Plasma Membrane stage of regulation. IMO, at least, it would seem contradictory to increase membrane permeability while subtracting the delivery system. No?
    Mullet-
    No- definitely not contradictory- we are one step ahead of you- we are trying to cover ALL our bases A concern in any GH-boosting product is insulin insensitivity, and banaba (through the tannic acid component) is excellent at preventing this from happening through GLUT4 translocation and alteration of the PPAR gene (which is required for adipogenesis) (1).

    You are correct- HGH does blunt insulin in skeletal muscle, but at the same time, increased HGH (and any other hyperglycemic hormone for that matter) actually causes a concurrent increased indirect release of insulin (look it up, it is in any physiology book).

    Mucuna Pruriens (the compound responsible for L-Dopa induced GH release) causes an increase in lipolysis, while at the same time increasing blood glucose and sparing muscle protein. Bacopa monnieri is also included in the product to optimize thyroid levels, and optimal thyroid levels mean increased GH secretion and up-regulation of GH receptors(2). The combination of these two products can promote a very favorable fat-burning enviroment through thyroid and GH-level optimization.

    However, increases in HGH have a mild diabetogenic effect, meaning that it is known to mimic the high blood sugar levels typical of diabetes mellitus, a situation which we wanted to prevent. That being said, banaba is not insulin, but does have a dose dependant curve similar to it, BUT at the same time, it has some very marked differences from insulin (1). Banaba actually slows the uptake of glucose into fat cells, something that is the exact opposite of insulin- the inclusion of banaba allows the user to maintain OPTIMAL insulin sensitivity while using the product.

    Competitive bodybuilders do the same thing all the time- when injecting exogenous GH, they also take T3 to optimize GH levels, while at the same time taking injectible insulin to combat GH-induced hyperinsulemia (2). Our products are not as strong as their pharmaceutical cousins, but most pharmaceutical drugs on the market have had at least some derivation from plants .

    That being said, the comment about plasma regulation at the membrane level- insulin and corosolic acid demonstrate similar phosphorylation of protein factors in the pathway that causes GLUT4 translocation (1). This really has nothing to do with how HGH exerts its effects- the receptors for insulin (and it seems corosolic acid) are completely different from those of HGH, so there is not any type of competition for the same receptor sites between the two compounds. This means while HGH and insulin are antagonistic, they still exert their effects on different receptors and target tissues. Your comment about membrane permeability really does not have any bearing in the argument- HGH does not have any type of effect on the receptor/substrate interaction of IRS-1 and PI 3-kinase and polypeptide insulin molecules.


    1) Liu, X. Jae-kyung, K. Yunsheng, L. Jing, L, Liu, F. and Chen, X. (2005) Tannic Acid Stimulates Glucose Transport and Inhibits Adipocyte Differentiation in 3T3-L1 Cells. Bio. and Mol. Actions of Nut. 135: 165-171.
    2) Haycock, Brian. (2005) Growing Beyond What Nature Intended: Growth Factors Take us to the Next Level of Sophistication in Bodybuilding. Part 3

  25. Wow....can we just put the customer on the phone

  26. Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Mullet-
    No- definitely not contradictory- we are one step ahead of you- we are trying to cover ALL our bases A concern in any GH-boosting product is insulin insensitivity, and banaba (through the tannic acid component) is excellent at preventing this from happening through GLUT4 translocation and alteration of the PPAR gene (which is required for adipogenesis) (1).

    You are correct- HGH does blunt insulin in skeletal muscle, but at the same time, increased HGH (and any other hyperglycemic hormone for that matter) actually causes a concurrent increased indirect release of insulin (look it up, it is in any physiology book).

    Mucuna Pruriens (the compound responsible for L-Dopa induced GH release) causes an increase in lipolysis, while at the same time increasing blood glucose and sparing muscle protein. Bacopa monnieri is also included in the product to optimize thyroid levels, and optimal thyroid levels mean increased GH secretion and up-regulation of GH receptors(2). The combination of these two products can promote a very favorable fat-burning enviroment through thyroid and GH-level optimization.

    However, increases in HGH have a mild diabetogenic effect, meaning that it is known to mimic the high blood sugar levels typical of diabetes mellitus, a situation which we wanted to prevent. That being said, banaba is not insulin, but does have a dose dependant curve similar to it, BUT at the same time, it has some very marked differences from insulin (1). Banaba actually slows the uptake of glucose into fat cells, something that is the exact opposite of insulin- the inclusion of banaba allows the user to maintain OPTIMAL insulin sensitivity while using the product.

    Competitive bodybuilders do the same thing all the time- when injecting exogenous GH, they also take T3 to optimize GH levels, while at the same time taking injectible insulin to combat GH-induced hyperinsulemia (2). Our products are not as strong as their pharmaceutical cousins, but most pharmaceutical drugs on the market have had at least some derivation from plants .

    That being said, the comment about plasma regulation at the membrane level- insulin and corosolic acid demonstrate similar phosphorylation of protein factors in the pathway that causes GLUT4 translocation (1). This really has nothing to do with how HGH exerts its effects- the receptors for insulin (and it seems corosolic acid) are completely different from those of HGH, so there is not any type of competition for the same receptor sites between the two compounds. This means while HGH and insulin are antagonistic, they still exert their effects on different receptors and target tissues. Your comment about membrane permeability really does not have any bearing in the argument- HGH does not have any type of effect on the receptor/substrate interaction of IRS-1 and PI 3-kinase and polypeptide insulin molecules.


    1) Liu, X. Jae-kyung, K. Yunsheng, L. Jing, L, Liu, F. and Chen, X. (2005) Tannic Acid Stimulates Glucose Transport and Inhibits Adipocyte Differentiation in 3T3-L1 Cells. Bio. and Mol. Actions of Nut. 135: 165-171.
    2) Haycock, Brian. (2005) Growing Beyond What Nature Intended: Growth Factors Take us to the Next Level of Sophistication in Bodybuilding. Part 3
    Well, I'll have to be honest: I couldn't have put it better myself.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    Mullet-
    No- definitely not contradictory- we are one step ahead of you- we are trying to cover ALL our bases A concern in any GH-boosting product is insulin insensitivity, and banaba (through the tannic acid component) is excellent at preventing this from happening through GLUT4 translocation and alteration of the PPAR gene (which is required for adipogenesis) (1).

    You are correct- HGH does blunt insulin in skeletal muscle, but at the same time, increased HGH (and any other hyperglycemic hormone for that matter) actually causes a concurrent increased indirect release of insulin (look it up, it is in any physiology book).

    Mucuna Pruriens (the compound responsible for L-Dopa induced GH release) causes an increase in lipolysis, while at the same time increasing blood glucose and sparing muscle protein. Bacopa monnieri is also included in the product to optimize thyroid levels, and optimal thyroid levels mean increased GH secretion and up-regulation of GH receptors(2). The combination of these two products can promote a very favorable fat-burning enviroment through thyroid and GH-level optimization.

    However, increases in HGH have a mild diabetogenic effect, meaning that it is known to mimic the high blood sugar levels typical of diabetes mellitus, a situation which we wanted to prevent. That being said, banaba is not insulin, but does have a dose dependant curve similar to it, BUT at the same time, it has some very marked differences from insulin (1). Banaba actually slows the uptake of glucose into fat cells, something that is the exact opposite of insulin- the inclusion of banaba allows the user to maintain OPTIMAL insulin sensitivity while using the product.

    Competitive bodybuilders do the same thing all the time- when injecting exogenous GH, they also take T3 to optimize GH levels, while at the same time taking injectible insulin to combat GH-induced hyperinsulemia (2). Our products are not as strong as their pharmaceutical cousins, but most pharmaceutical drugs on the market have had at least some derivation from plants .

    That being said, the comment about plasma regulation at the membrane level- insulin and corosolic acid demonstrate similar phosphorylation of protein factors in the pathway that causes GLUT4 translocation (1). This really has nothing to do with how HGH exerts its effects- the receptors for insulin (and it seems corosolic acid) are completely different from those of HGH, so there is not any type of competition for the same receptor sites between the two compounds. This means while HGH and insulin are antagonistic, they still exert their effects on different receptors and target tissues. Your comment about membrane permeability really does not have any bearing in the argument- HGH does not have any type of effect on the receptor/substrate interaction of IRS-1 and PI 3-kinase and polypeptide insulin molecules.


    1) Liu, X. Jae-kyung, K. Yunsheng, L. Jing, L, Liu, F. and Chen, X. (2005) Tannic Acid Stimulates Glucose Transport and Inhibits Adipocyte Differentiation in 3T3-L1 Cells. Bio. and Mol. Actions of Nut. 135: 165-171.
    2) Haycock, Brian. (2005) Growing Beyond What Nature Intended: Growth Factors Take us to the Next Level of Sophistication in Bodybuilding. Part 3

    Dude! i have no idea what the hell your talking about, but damn! We only now red neck talk around here.

  28. Who typed that?

    It's obvious a true response is coming, but I think it is also obvious no one is advocating the use of HGH and insulin before bed, or anytime for that matter. One of the foundations of Applied Nutriceuticals is a line of products focused on safety and efficacy, and just as importantly, results.

    As for "You can not compare exogenous hormones to a supplement":
    Somewhere around here comparisons between the 2 are thrown around like CRAZY....... Hmmmm..... I'll see if I can find where.........

  29. Quote Originally Posted by USPLabs View Post
    In order for corosolic acid to work, you must consume carbohydrates. If you consume glucose, the release of dopamine induced HGH release is blunted.

    If glucose is not consumed, you will release glucagon. Glucagon signals glycogenolysis (releas of glucose from the liver). When the liver stores are depleted, glucagon encourages gluconeogenisis(glucose from amino acids).

    This is basic.

    If you advocoate eating carbohydrates before taking Litp PM, Glucose blunts the release of HGH induced by l-dopa.

    In 1975, Ajlouni and colleagues reported the effects of 500mg of oral L-dopa on eight normal and 8 non-obese insulin-dependent diabetic subjects. The normal subjects increased their plasma HGH from 1.5mg/ml before L-dopa, to an average 21mg/ml at 90 minutes post L-dopa, with all subjects showing at least a 10 mg/ml increase. The diabetics increased from 2.5mg/ml to 20mg/ml from 60-90 minutes post L-dopa. Giving glucose with, or 30 minutes after the drug totally suppressed the expected HGH increase (7).

    Ajlouni, K. et al (1975) “Effect of glucose on the growth hormone response to L-dopa in normal and diabetic subjects” Diabetes 24:633-36.

    This is really basic endocrinology one of my favorite courses in college.

    We both have differing opinions thats obvious.
    The key word is opinion- I took endocrinology and plenty of anatomy and physiology (both undergraduate level and at the graduate level) as well- please refer to and re-read the FAQ's on our website- we recommend taking Lipo-PM ON AN EMPTY stomach 45 minutes before bedtime- I am familiar with the study you are referencing.

    Re-read the post- corosolic acid is included in the product to boost insulin sensitivity. The reasoning behind this is that corosolic acid down-regulates PPAR, and recent research has revealed a new polypeptide hormone, resistin, that has been discerned as one of the potential link between obesity and type II diabetes. PPAR and resistin are almost chemically identical and there is evidence that b/c CA can down-regulate PPAR, it can also also down-regulate resistin, resulting in greatly increased insulin sensitivity (2).

    This finding is completely independent of the statement "In order for corosolic acid to work, you must consume carbohydrates" - this study (which you reference constantly in your write-ups), states that one of the main areas interest in CA/TA is preventing adipogenic activity via gene down-regulation and increasing insulin sensitivity, regardless of the ingestion of dietary carbohydrates- not just that corosolic acts like insulin in muscle cells and can cause GLUT4 translocation- there is a whole other half of the study that you are failing to read (2).


    CA stimulates glucose uptake through a different method than other anti-diabetic drugs on the market- that being said, the different classes on anti-diabetic drugs have different actions, but all 3 have something in common- they can still work without glucose/carbohydrates.

    The product incorporates banaba strictly for its effects on GLUT4 translocation and insulin-sensitizing properties (through preventing PPAR/resistin expression in adipocytes). Mucuna Pruriens also has some blood-sugar lowering properties as well, yet it still causes GH release- and subsequent increased blood glucose- the effects seem to compliment/counterbalance one another (1). If it did not, Lipo-PM would not help people sleep longer, deeper, and better (signs of increased GH activity). If the banaba and mucuna contraindicated like you state, neither would work, yet both do. There have been no reports of hypoglycemia by our testers, and almost everyone who has used it claims deeper, more restful sleep, along with decreased body fat, which indicates greater GH release.



    1. Rathi, SS. Grover, JK and Vats, V The effect of Momordica charantia and Mucuna pruriens in experimental diabetes and their effect on key metabolic enzymes involved in carbohydrate metabolism. Dept. of Pharmacology, New Delhi
    2. Liu, X. Jae-kyung, K. Yunsheng, L. Jing, L, Liu, F. and Chen, X. (2005) Tannic Acid Stimulates Glucose Transport and Inhibits Adipocyte Differentiation in 3T3-L1 Cells. Bio. and Mol. Actions of Nut. 135: 165-171.
    Dirk Tanis, BA, MSci
    Chief Operating Officer, Applied Nutriceuticals

  30. Quote Originally Posted by rms80 View Post
    The key word is opinion- I took endocrinology and plenty of anatomy and physiology (both undergraduate level and at the graduate level) as well- please refer to and re-read the FAQ's on our website- we recommend taking Lipo-PM ON AN EMPTY stomach 45 minutes before bedtime- I am familiar with the study you are referencing.

    Re-read the post- corosolic acid is included in the product to boost insulin sensitivity. The reasoning behind this is that corosolic acid down-regulates PPAR, and recent research has revealed a new polypeptide hormone, resistin, that has been discerned as one of the potential link between obesity and type II diabetes. PPAR and resistin are almost chemically identical and there is evidence that b/c CA can down-regulate PPAR, it can also also down-regulate resistin, resulting in greatly increased insulin sensitivity (2).

    This finding is completely independent of the statement "In order for corosolic acid to work, you must consume carbohydrates" - this study (which you reference constantly in your write-ups), states that one of the main areas interest in CA/TA is preventing adipogenic activity and increasing insulin sensitivity- not just that corosolic acts like insulin in muscle cells (2).


    CA stimulates glucose uptake through a different method than other anti-diabetic drugs on the market- that being said, the different classes on anti-diabetic drugs have different actions, but all 3 have something in common- they can still work without glucose/carbohydrates.

    The product incorporates banaba strictly for its effects on GLUT4 translocation and insulin-sensitizing properties (through preventing PPAR/resistin expression in adipocytes). Mucuna Pruriens also has some blood-sugar lowering properties as well, yet it still causes GH release- and subsequent increased blood glucose- the effects seem to compliment/counterbalance one another (1). If it did not, Lipo-PM would not help people sleep longer, deeper, and better (signs of increased GH activity). If the banaba and mucuna contraindicated like you state, neither would work, yet both do. There have been no reports of hypoglycemia by our testers, and almost everyone who has used it claims deeper, more restful sleep, along with decreased body fat, which indicates greater GH release.



    1. Rathi, SS. Grover, JK and Vats, V The effect of Momordica charantia and Mucuna pruriens in experimental diabetes and their effect on key metabolic enzymes involved in carbohydrate metabolism. Dept. of Pharmacology, New Delhi
    2. Liu, X. Jae-kyung, K. Yunsheng, L. Jing, L, Liu, F. and Chen, X. (2005) Tannic Acid Stimulates Glucose Transport and Inhibits Adipocyte Differentiation in 3T3-L1 Cells. Bio. and Mol. Actions of Nut. 135: 165-171.

    You guys sound like me and my ex-wife.

    But honestly, we really would rather spend our time more constructively than having to educate our competitors on how compounds they use in their own products work.

    Nice response, Dirk.
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