I think my dad is borderline heart attack please help
- 11-29-2006, 08:31 PM
I think my dad is borderline heart attack please help
Hey guys I just really need some fast reliable info and since this forum has proven to give me that I thought i'd come here first.
My dad is a 58 year old in fairly good shape(maybe not physical, but he runs like 4 miles a day) and he has been having blood pressure problems for a while. At first I had him taking hawthorne berries and that was REALLY helping out his blood pressure, but all of a sudden the other day I found out that he had to be put on blood pressure medication so I'm like wtf...
His medication is lisinopril 10 mg which seems pretty damn serious if you ask me, and just today he had like this wierd phase where he puked in a toilet while shopping at sams club and had to go and lay down at home immediately. I'm becoming real worried as you can tlel.
I was wondering what other things there are to bring down his blood pressure that can be bought over the counter are? I know hawthorne berries is good, but is there something extra he can take with it? Isn't vitamin D helpful or something? Please help.
- 11-29-2006, 08:39 PM
i recommend Anabolic inovations
NutraPlanet.com: Cycle Support (60 Servings) By Anabolic Innovations hit the link so that you can read some more info on the product. im currently taking it for general health, im not "ON" but it doesnt hurtto take it. Let me dig more in to this
Hope your dad gets better. Best wishes for you and your whole family
11-29-2006, 08:44 PM
11-29-2006, 08:55 PM
I strongly recommend that you support your father by ensuring that he be under the constant close care of a highly trained heath care professional. The ownership and staff of this board assume no liability for advice rendered or taken in this thread.
Life is a terminal condition.
11-29-2006, 08:58 PM
11-29-2006, 09:02 PM
Get his ass to the hospital. These supps are long term mild(compared to script) effects. Get him seen by a professional. You don't want to chance bad info here with your pops...I hope he gets better.
11-29-2006, 09:05 PM
11-29-2006, 10:21 PM
Yeah, don't waste time here. Vomiting is actually a SIGN of a heart.
Been through watching all that happen before.
Get him to a doc. Make sure they realize it is serious. Make sure they realize you are serious about it.
11-29-2006, 10:29 PM
Thanks guys and I know that you're not the "most qualified" but hell the general consensus of doctors are the ones saying steroids are bad so I figured I'd get both sides of the spectrum on this subject. The problem is that he is so damn stubborn and it is really starting to piss me off. That Cycle support and the log really looked great and I might purchase that for him... Vommiting is a sign of a heart attack? God damn.
I will sit him down and talk with him tommarow.
11-30-2006, 12:49 AM
is he having chest pain, sob, sweating, anxiety? these are more typical signs of an infarct in a male. what were his recent blood pressure readings and heart rate? how is he feeling now? you can cause ischemia to your heart but not cause damage as well, usally drawing a troponin x 2 over 8 hours will tell you how much damage if any. sometimes dr will draw ckmb as well along with ekg and cbc. the thing is if he thinks he is having an mi he should go to the hospital. if it was my dad i would call 911 and let him be pissed if i really felt something was wrong with him. the people who wait are the ones in denial and do so much more damage. tell him to take an aspirin and go to the hospital.
11-30-2006, 01:00 AM
Ok, here is your warning - a lot of what I post is just a bunch of wacky, David Letterman-esque, non-sense intended only to poke harmless fun.
That does not apply to this post.
Get your Dad to a qualified MD, and don't waste time. Plenty of male bravado - which we all have - might keep him away, but you need to work on him, and so do other family members, to overcome that. Proud and dead is worse than humbled and alive.
I lost my Dad about 12 years ago. It was due to a brain stem stroke. He had a history of heart disease. He was my best male friend. He was the best man at my wedding. You only have ONE Dad. Whatever good supps do, they might have a reaction (synergetic or otherwise) with his meds. Were it me, I would lay off the supps until he knows exactly what is going on. Well intended? Yes. Good to help with chronic problems? Yes (in many cases). The right solution for an acute problem? I say not.
Now then, do some homework before you go to the MD. Were it me, I would find a way to go with him. Ask what tests are being run. See if they've done a c-reactive protien test, read on WebMD and everywhere else you can about his condition and whatever they've prescribed.
It was a great idea to come here for help, at least as a starting point. Now there is a lot more to do.
God bless you and your family. I wish I could offer more than just generic advice - but that has to come from someone trained and qualified. All I am is well intended.
BTW- re aspirin. I agree with the prior post, so long as he doesn't have a reson not too (e.g., allergy or ulcer). Provided he can take them, go for it - even if it is just a baby aspirin (i.e., 81 mg) rather than a full size (either 325 mg or 500 mg, but most are 325).
11-30-2006, 03:05 AM
Not necessarily see: LisinoprilOriginally Posted by Irish480
Less serious side effects may be more likely to occur, such as:
- dizziness, drowsiness, headache;
- nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, upset stomach; or
- mild skin itching or rash.
11-30-2006, 09:34 PM
maybe you can ask the doc if its ok for him to take raw garlic. And potassium supp. Both worked a bit for me. My BP is a bit on the high side. 140/70-60 mmHg
Perhaps your dad vomitted and had to lay down because of the blood pressure medication?
Some kinds of BP medication have certain side effects on ppl. Maybe you can ask the doc to switch to a different kind of meds, or to adjust the dosing.
12-01-2006, 02:09 AM
Thanks man this post was real refreshing and yes I was doing research today, then tried talking to him but he just seemed mad at me for asking. I'm gonna go real strong on him tommarow and pressure him into going with me.Originally Posted by Beau
I read some webMD on his pills today and I dont like the side effects on those either, and they might be doing more harm than good.
Sorry for the loss of your dad and thanks for the encouraging words for mine.
12-01-2006, 08:37 AM
Close follow up by his MD is importantl Lisinopril is a fantastic medication that actually helps with cardiac remodeling after having a heart attack among other things (protects kidney in diabetics) as well as the all important lowering of blood pressure.Originally Posted by Irish480
Most of the studies have been done with Altace or ramipril. We are not sure if there is a class effect with all ace inhibitors thus alot of times we start patients on ramipril unless they cannot afford it.
Without knowing anythign about your dad, his risk factors (high cholesterol, family history, diabetes?) Personbally I think it is a great choice to start the medication. Other things to consider are taking a daily aspirin as already mentioned (81mg) each day.
Seems like everyone in the future will be taking Lipitor or something similar. Again, when it comes to statins, Lipitor/atorvastatin is one of only a few in its class that has shown overall benefit. In the ER when someone comes in suspected for a heart attack, some docs are already giving patients 80mg in one shot to help. If his cholesterol is not in check, eh should probably start on that too.
Again, just some info, I don't know anything about him. Take it as you will.
12-01-2006, 02:02 PM
Re Lipitors, and others - except for those who truly cannot overcome the sensitivity to Niacin - IMO Niacin is really the way to go. Cheap, effective, and few down sides. MDs may not tout it as much because (1) naturally occurring, it cannot be patented, (2) thus - no marketing (beacuse no exclusivity via patent) by Pharm companies, and (3) it isn't a "drug".
OK - I'm off that soap box now. BTW - A really good book on ths sibject is titled "The All New 8 Week Cholesterol Cure". IMO it is WELL worth the time to read it.
I commend your concern and taking care of your Dad. It may not be an easy thing for him to face, I would expect, as you need to encroach into his "Alpha Male territory". That, with the fact that he may be facing his own mortality, may result in a less than appreciative response to your efforts - but from my perspective (for what little it is worth) you are indeed fighting the good fight.
He will appreciate it, if not now - then later.
12-01-2006, 04:44 PM
If your dad is indeed having acute heart problems (which may or may not be the case) then he needs to be diagnosed at a hospital. There's no way to run an echo or perform other necessary tests over Anabolic Minds.
12-01-2006, 10:17 PM
Hang on a sec, I Rx niacin all the time, specifically in patients with elevated Triglycerides and elevated Cholesterol. THose are the main indications, it is not made to lower LDL and increase HDL nor has it been proven to decrease cardiac events, prevent atherosclerosis. It is a helpful adjunct and is prescribed like all the time.Originally Posted by Beau
It is recommended that it be taken at night with an aspirin to prevent the sides (flushing usually). Lipitor is as well studied and well indicated in this setting. Lipitor plus niacin is a great combo in the right setting. It has been studied in a HUGE population in several countries which has accounted fo rits cost, but it works. No other statin has been able to demonstrate such efficacy, and there are several more that are more expensive, but then again, they have yet to prove a class effect. Zocor (simvastatin) is also well studied, and a worthy alternative.)
It is absolutely false to say that niacin is not Rxed enough becuase it is not marketed as aggressivley. It is more common than you think - only used in specific settings, not only because it i snot indicated, but usually because it is not well tolerated.
Anyone else notice that in alot of supps they add extra niacin to add an "effect" to make oyu "feel" liek the supplement is working?
12-01-2006, 10:18 PM
E****lent point, we cna provide perspective and some objective knowledge, but it should never be taken as gospel or replace the recommendations of a PCP.Originally Posted by TeamSavage
12-01-2006, 10:28 PM
Yours are all points well taken. Please note I suggested "MDs may not tout it as much". I didn't conclusively say they didn't tout it at all, or that none of them touted it at. Those would have been grossly inaccurate; I am hopeful that many do. But in my personal, and therefore very limited, experience - the MDs I've spoken to do not seem to be Niacin (or other supp) advocates (except for a few exceptions like baby aspirin).Originally Posted by DeerDeer
I'm glad to hear that you see Niacin as part of the cholesterol arsenal.
BTW - I would be interested in your review of the book I mentioned. I found it the best cholesterol-related material I've read. Wow - that sounds pathetically nerd-like.
I wanted to add something else. I am very happy with what appears to be a very high maturity and concern level of most everyone on this forum. Here we have someone none of us knows who is concerned with his Dad. Several people have responded with very well intended information. Just a note of thanks to all. As absurd as this sounds - it provides a sort of sense of community. I think it is great.
As I warned earlier, most of my postings are just goof ball stuff - thinking most of us carry a burden that might benefit from a little levity. Honestly, I prefer postings like this.
12-01-2006, 10:35 PM
I understand where oyu are coming form man - I must admit that many MDs go right for the big HMGCoA reductase inhibitor guns (hey, Red Yeast Rice has similar properties, maybe AI should add Niacin to the Cycle Support - not a bad idea at all!)Originally Posted by Beau
I haven't come across that info you mentioned above - I have usually gone right for the studies (boring as all hell) but allows me to see who sponsored the study, how it was done adn in what population. I'll take a look for sure and give feedback.
Glad to see that you are informed about the material - Ilove it when people are proactive about there health - healthy lipid profiles, healthy management of blood pressure is fundamental!!
12-03-2006, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Irish480
There are many herbs that are very good at treating hypertention dandlion and garlic are very, But it would be better to speak to the doctor, Training is also very effective at treating mild hypertention but your dad would need a longer warm-up and cool down (Min 15). A huge problem with taking suplements or herbs along with medication from the doctors is it could lower your dads BP to much, It is also very important to monitor this and discuss what herbs/suplements with his doctor.
12-03-2006, 05:41 PM
Cardio is effective (atleast 20 min/day) at reducing systolic BP and improving overall cardiovascular health.Originally Posted by brittishbulldog
If you have proven cardiovascular risk factors would you rather take an herb or use a medication that has been used and studied in a controlled manner and proven to improve cardiovascular health and lowerhypertension?
12-03-2006, 08:27 PM
12-04-2006, 02:03 PM
My doc put me on Lisinopril to control my BP (as well as a diuretic--damn salt addiction!).
Anyway, for the first week I was on this stuff, I got pretty darn dizzy and almost vomited a couple of times. After the week was done, then it was smooth sailing. BP under control, and life is good
Best thing to do is not panic, and allow an MD to evaluate your dad. While they may not agree with a lot of people on here about steroids, which an extremely small % of the population uses, they know a good deal about heart problems, as a relatively large % of the population has heart health issues.
Originally Posted by meowmeow
12-04-2006, 05:56 PM
ACE Inhibitors for the most part are virtually free of sides. The most common things I see are either a cough, which most can tolerate or you can just switch to an ARB (angiotensin receptor blocker). I have seen a case of ACE induced angioedema (pateitn had lip swelling) which is rare. They take 2-3 weeks to really see noticeable BP lowering effects.Originally Posted by djl
Below is an image depicting th epathway these two mechanisms work. There are also direct renin inhibitor medicationso n the pipeline that alledgedly will be superior to both of these in terms of BP lowering effects, we do not know if they will have similar renoprotective effects.
When looking at this image (careful it's loaded!), focus mainly on two points: the ACE (angiotensin converting enzyme which converts angI --> angII) and AGTII which is the aactivate byproduct of the ace whose receptor is blocked with the ARB. Both block vasocontriction.
If you block the renin you block the whole pathway and do not have a buildup of angiotensin I and prevent the vasocontriction.
If you are on a diuretic (HCTZ) just make sure oyu follow your electrolytes!
12-04-2006, 11:37 PM
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