looking for a good testosterone increase supplement
- 11-07-2006, 06:00 PM
looking for a good testosterone increase supplement
i take BSN stack of, and along with protein... or w/e but ya...make good gains but i want to try and put in some increase in testosterone and there are so many diff products and stuff ive been researching and researching and i still am stumped on what would b a good product...i know it varies with person to person but if a lot of people have good gains with a certain product then i want to try that
so ya just help put out ideas on what supplement to try or supplements stacked
- 11-08-2006, 06:36 AM
I can strongly recomend the NHA stack from DS. Im on my
15'th day(on a bulking routine) and I make god gains and impressive Strengt-gains. Dind't feel much the first seven days but then things started to happen. My DB-press increased by 10 Ibs(each DB) and I saw increased strengt in almost all exercises. Libido is also up at the moment and sleep is good(was a bit bad the first week). No side-effects besides some increase in acne but its under control with skin-products. So this is the stack i would do if I wasnt allready;-)
- 11-08-2006, 07:08 AM
11-08-2006, 08:04 AM
11-08-2006, 09:02 PM
what would u say is the best bulking stack?? im hearing good things from all 3 of those stacks (NHA,or Diesel/R4W,or powerfull/symmetry)
11-09-2006, 03:36 AM
nha/dt/prfull really kicks. i been on prfull for about a month just added symmetry about a week ago, it has made a big difference will add either dt or nha on fri. leaning towards dt.
11-09-2006, 07:44 AM
I'm gonna try out the NHA stack for a basic stack see how it works for me.
Thanks for the insight guys
11-09-2006, 10:07 AM
dude youre 18 you should have test dripping out of your pores. other than a prohormone stack, anything non steroidal isnt going to do too much for you,....its a waste of money.. and avoid the steroids bc your too young.
your in the prime of your hormonal function, eat and lift and it will come, just work harder
11-09-2006, 02:56 PM
QUOTE(Chip Douglas @ Oct 2 2006, 04:28 PM) *
Here's an interesting article from Charles Poliquin--he's onto something there, I'm sure.
Question of Strength
Q & A with one of the world's premier strength coaches
by Charles Poliquin
When it comes to muscle and performance, Charles Poliquin is so far ahead of most of the non-Testosterone pack it's scary. He's not only on the cutting edge, he's the guy who sharpens it. We're glad to be reviving his famous Q & A column here at T-Nation.
Fat Cops and Physical Readiness Tests
Q: Charles, you mentioned in another article that you've done some consulting with the US Army about updating their physical readiness tests. Everyone knows that most of these tests for the military and law enforcement don't have much application to real life. What changes did you suggest?
A: Most of these tests are like giving someone a Japanese test to see how much Italian he can speak. A foreign language is a foreign language, but the carryover is very poor.
There are some organizations that are doing better physical readiness tests though. For example, Montreal has the best firemen and law enforcement tests around the world because they're task driven.
One of the most important things is this: It doesn't really matter how fit you are if you can't make important decisions in conditions of fatigue. In that state, your level of fitness doesn't do **** for you.
Any physical readiness test, whether it's for a S.W.A.T. team or for the military, should have you doing a series of physical tasks and then, at the end of the circuit, have you make a decision. If your lactate is really high and you either can't make a decision or you make the wrong decision, then you're endangering your teammates.
I just designed a new test for a Federal agency where the person is asked to drag a body of 90 kilos for 50 meters. The scenario is that someone on your team gets shot and you have to pull him to safety. They don't know what the test is either, so they can't practice.
Then they have to run ten flights of stairs with a 40 kilo first aid kit. At the top they have to deploy the kit and decide which mouthpiece to use on a mannequin waiting there. Then the guy has to make a decision on full lactate. It's amazing how many people can't do it.
After the mouthpiece is on, what we do is project pink triangles and green circles on the wall. Then they've got to shoot the green circles, which represent the bad guys, while avoiding the pink triangle civilians. What you'll find is that guys huffing and puffing can barely draw their guns, and when they do draw them then they start shooting the wrong stuff. We've found that these types of tests are much better predictors.
Oddly enough though, these tests are highly correlated with a caber toss. In other words, your ability to throw something backward for distance is highly correlated with that test. So what we're thinking now is to do a caber toss as a pre-screening, then only taking the top 5% for the task driven test. So with the Army, I suggested something similar.
Also, one of the toughest things a soldier has to do is take a case of 50 caliber ammunition and put it on the back of a truck. So that's another task I suggested to the Army. No amount of push-ups will correlate with that!
But any time you do something like that you piss off a lot of people. They just like tradition because of tradition. What we're trying show is that dragging a body under fire is a lot more correlated to what happens in Iraq than how many pull-ups you can do. You can train for those kinds of tests, but it doesn't mean you're a good soldier.
Another test I suggested was wall climbing. Wall climbing with gear and weighted pull-ups are two different things. One of the first things you have to do when applying for the counter-assault team of the US Secret Service is put on 88 pounds of equipment and do four pull-ups. If you can't do that then you're not even allowed to do the other tests.
Now, 40 kilos of gear on your back isn't like using a weight belt with 40 kilos attached. The fact that the center of mass is far away from the center of gravity makes it a really different pull-up — the firing patterns are very different.
Of any organization I've ever seen, I think the Secret Service is the most clued-in about real life. I did some consulting for them last year and they're considered the gold standard. They're the ones that will set the standard for any new type of testing.
By the way, many police departments are starting to revaluate officers when it comes to body fat. The University of Montreal did a study and found that the average cop has a body fat of 23%. The average felon's body fat was 8%. The average cop's VO2Max was 37; the average felon's was 55. There is a trend toward changing this, but if you look at European cops verses North American cops, the difference is stellar.
Here's another story that you might be able to apply to athletic pursuits. During the infamous North Hollywood bank robbery in 1997, where two felons wearing Kevlar and carrying automatic weapons had an hour-long shootout with police, several of the officers were seen raising their hands in the air when their guns jammed. Why? Because during their training on the gun range, they were taught to hold up their hands when their weapons jammed so the instructor could clear them.
The lesson here is that during stress, you go back to your most basic training. This again shows why most law enforcement and military physical readiness tests need to be revamped. Hopefully the agencies I've worked with will make the needed changes.
Age, Training, and Dwindling Hormones
Q: Is there a certain age where a man has to start worrying more about overtraining or start modifying his training in general because of age? When does it all start to go downhill?
A: Your tolerance to exercise is affected by androgen levels. Interestingly enough, based on blood work collected at my own centers, the age when it all starts to go downhill is 31.
That's a lot earlier than 20 years ago. I've been doing this for 26 years, and we know for a fact that Testosterone levels are 30% lower than they were 20 years ago for any age group. And that study is five years old! I'd say that since 9/11 it's gotten worse.
One thing that we know is that we have 100 times more stress than our grandfathers. One study showed that just wearing your cell phone on your hip lowers androgen levels by 31% due to what's probably a combination of stress and low-level radiation... and cell phones weren't as popular when that study came out.
A few months ago I dropped having a cell phone. People can get a hold of me through email or by calling my office. My stress levels probably went down by 50%.
I've seen a lot of guys in pro football and hockey come in with a total Test of 110. At 110 you cry watching TV commercials. It's possible with proper supplementation to get it up to 1100 after eight weeks, which is a pretty good Testosterone level. But the point is that people who show up in gyms are castrated.
Environmental plastics lower Testosterone too. We have a test where you piss on a stick and send it to a lab to test for plastics. People who drink a lot from plastic water bottles have really high plastics. If you detoxify the plastics, their Testosterone levels go back up.
Now, I don't want to sound like a doomsday granola-head, but there's a lot of things you can control when it comes to this. It's not just one factor causing the lower androgen levels, it's a combination.
One of those things you can control is your low level of zinc. I have never seen normal levels of zinc and magnesium with my first time clients. Say what you will about Victor Conte, but when he came out with ZMA, he solved America's two greatest deficiencies: zinc and magnesium.
Restoring magnesium level is a bit more complicated than just using pure ZMA. Restoring zinc is fairly easy; it really doesn't take that long. Restoring magnesium levels can sometimes take four times longer. If you're deficient in magnesium then you can't sleep well. About 68% of the American population complains of some sort of sleep disorder, and that's due largely to magnesium levels. That's why people who start taking ZMA will sleep better.
Some studies will show that 58% of the population is zinc and magnesium deficient. Other studies show 75%. But I can tell you that with the athletic population or with anyone who exercises four or five times a week, it's 100%. Usually you can correct a zinc deficiency in a non-athlete at 30mg a day for eight weeks. With the athletic population, we sometimes need to bring the dose up to 180mg a day for two months and then start to taper.
How can you tell if you're deficient? Well, you most likely are! But there is a very cheap test you can do to be sure. You buy this stuff called Zinc Tally, which is basically liquid zinc. You put it in your mouth and if you're normal it tastes like a liquefied metal car bumper. But when we ask the athletes who come into my centers what it tastes like, they'll say it tastes like water. They're so deficient they can't perceive there's any zinc in the solution.
Once they rebuild their zinc level, they can barely keep the Zinc Tally in their mouth. If they have to practically spit it out after eight weeks, then we know their zinc levels are normal.
In short, although age 31 is when we see things start to "fall apart," many of these things can be prevented by maximizing androgen levels through the means discussed above.
HCl: You Are What You Assimilate!
Q: Besides zinc and magnesium, what other deficiencies do those of us seeking muscle and performance need to worry about?
A: The most common one, which actually causes zinc and magnesium deficiency, is hydrochloric acid (HCl) deficiency.
Back when I was an undergrad many moons ago, they used to tell us that you lose about 1% stomach acid per year after the age of 40. Well, that's not true anymore because our high stress levels these days decrease HCl. We did a study at our Chicago facility where we gave 160 clients an HCl test. Only two people passed it with a medium score; 158 had a horrendous score.
If there's insufficient hydrochloric acid, proteins will pass into the intestine and putrefy instead of being digested. Carbohydrates will also be left to ferment without adequate digestive enzymes from the pancreas. Fat digestion is also dependent on the acid's influence on the pancreas to secrete lipase and the gall bladder to secrete bile. Poor digestion of these macronutrients means poor absorption of our basic energy sources.
Over the last four years, I've been amazed how a correction in HCl deficiency has led to not only dramatic improvements in physique and strength, but also improvements in a variety of health parameters. Interestingly enough, in strength-trained individuals those improvements are often associated with gains of 15 to 18 pounds of lean body mass within two months! Why? They are now absorbing proteins and minerals.
Here are a few of the symptoms of low stomach acid:
belching or gas within one hour of a meal
bloating shortly after eating
loss of taste for meat
nausea after taking supplements
undigested food in stool
desire to skip meals
In the US, many experts estimate the deficiency to be in the range of 40 to 50%. Some gastroenterologists are now advancing that it is today's most under-diagnosed ailment.
There are a variety of medical tests you can get, but here's a simple test you can do at home (but I suggest you talk to a physician qualified in nutritional medicine before you try it). It requires a bottle of Betaine HCl, at 200 mg potency per capsule. Here's how it's performed:
Step 1: Have a high-protein solid meal (no shakes). Let's say for illustration purposes a 12-ounce steak and vegetables.
Step 2: Eat half the protein, roughly 6 ounces of the steak.
Step 3: Swallow a 200mg capsule of HCl.
Step 4: Eat the other half of the steak and the vegetables.
Step 5: Wait 15 minutes.
Step 6: If your stomach acid is normal, you'll feel like you just drank a hot cup of tea or feel a burn. If you feel nothing, you need HCl as a supplement.
So what do you do next? At every meal repeat steps 1 to 6, upping the dose one capsule per meal until you feel the burning sensation. So if it takes five meals to get a burning sensation, you need on average four capsules per meal. If you get to seven capsules and you have no burning, stop the test — you're achloridic, meaning you have almost no stomach acid!
At our Phoenix center alone we've been doing over 250 tests a year for the last four years, and in that time I've never seen one person not need at least one capsule; the average person tested could feel it after five capsules. You're getting better when you start feeling a burn at your initial determined dosage. For example, if you found that five capsules was your initial need, you may find that three days later it starts to burn, so then you'd cut back to four capsules with a typical high-protein solid meal, and so on.
Most people achieve normal levels within eight weeks even when they start at seven capsules, but some individuals take as much as 18 months. I have two clients who need two caps a day permanently. Why? Because neither one will ever escape their stress levels (one of them is a real estate mogul and the other is a highly accomplished author).
Make sure that your HCl product also contains the probiotic pepsin and the digestive enzymes papain and pancreatin, as they have a synergistic effect with HCl therapy. (You can acquire my version of this product by contacting Judith@CharlesPoliquin.com.)
In addition to the above HCl protocols, here are a few other suggestions to normalize your stomach acid levels. First, avoid carbonated drinks.
Second, avoid all-you-can-eat buffets, as they're America's leading source of food-borne pathogens. Finally, there are numerous herbs that can contribute to raising HCl, such as gentian, peppermint, and ginger, but be aware that very few controlled studies exist on this topic.
I believe this is so important that my clients aren't given a supplement program until they get an HCl test. Remember, not only are you what you eat, you are what you assimilate!
© 1998 — 2006 Testosterone, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
THIS GUY IS DEAD ON, from my own person experience, it mirrors to my supplementation regime perfectly. I did a lot of research over the years on mitral valve prolapse and came across numerous sources that suggesting supplementing magnesium, zinc and hydrochloric acid. I've been on these three supplements for the pasts three years. I've put on 25 pounds in the past year all my lifts have gone up and my mood is much better, sex drive is very high better then ever, digestion is great, IBS is gone, skin is better, I'm 33 6'1” 182, one year ago I weighted 155 with IBS. I've lifted on and off for 18 years and made almost no gains until I started supplementing with magnesium, zinc and HCL. I used to have poor sleep, bad digestion and was skinny, but all that has changed with magnesium, zinc and HCL. But having mitral valve prolapse meant that my body was severely deficient in magnesium, zinc and HCL. But I can see how this would have a big difference to a normal male, I suggest everyone follow this guys advice it worked for me.
Supplements To Keep T Levels Up As The Years Go By - Mind and Muscle Forums
11-12-2006, 04:04 PM
Why would having MVP affect, magnesium, zinc and HCL levels?Originally Posted by badbart
I have MVP but with no leakage, so it isnt that bad. My doc says to act as if I dont even have MVP.
but I do get palpatitions sometimes....for 3-4 days every few months.
11-12-2006, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by tforms1
My MVP doesn't effect me unless I drink a lot of alcohol, but I started reading about MVP, IBS and certain other problems affected by magnesium deficiency. Below is a great link to what summarizes what I've learned. I have a lot of the symptoms listed on this chart and they all have gotten better to eliminated with my supplementation of magnesium Zinc and hyaluronic acid. Many people have MVP and no other symptoms but I have a few of the symptoms on the chart below. My vision has even improved, for the 3 years ago I needed my glasses to pass my drivers test but 3 months ago I passed with no glasses, my weight has gone up 25 – 30 pounds, my allergies are almost gone,and IBS is almost gone, my mood is great, my sex drive is very high and all my lifts are improving.
Mitral Valve Prolapse Syndrome: Symptoms and Diet Treatment
Other good info.
Foundation for Integrated Medicine - Magnesium Deficiency
Understanding Mitral Valve Prolapse Syndrome Page
11-12-2006, 05:28 PM
"My MVP doesn't effect me unless I drink a lot of alcohol"
Then what happens?
"chart below. My vision has even improved, for the 3 years ....my weight has gone up 25 – 30 pounds, my allergies are almost gone,and IBS is almost gone, my mood is great, my sex drive is very high and all my lifts are improving.
Wow, all that from just adding zinc, magnesium and HCL to your diet?
I think Im going to start taking that stuff then.
11-12-2006, 05:43 PM
I get palpitations if I drink a lot. I'm not sure which helped the most but I first noticed a difference when I took ZMA. If you don't have a lot of the symptoms listed on that web page I would start with ZMA or just buy a good brand of Zinc and Magnesium, its cheaper. I do notice a diffrence when I buy cheap Magnesium, the cheap Magnesium dosen't work as good. Also if I take too much Magnesium I get too tired during the day. I take about 550mgs of Magnesum a day and 45mg of Zinc a day.Originally Posted by tforms1
11-12-2006, 06:13 PM
How much HCL do you take a day?
I get palpatitions sometimes too....
but why would that happen from MVP?
My understanding is that MVP is just that the flap on the valve isnt fitting right.
But in my case, theres no leakage, which is good.
11-12-2006, 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by tforms1
I was confused about the HCL, I take hyaluronic acid wich helps your body produce HCL. But I just went and bougt some HCL and I'm trying it now.
I think magnesium would be best for palpitations . I don't know why but palpitations are common for people with MVP, people seem to be able to feel their heart beat and are more sensitive to a lot of things going on in their body. MVP runs in my family, the person with the worst MVP lived to be 96, to most people MVP is benign. Magnesium helps with connective tissue strength, and your heart valves are connective tissue. Also magnesium can have a calming effect which makes a person less sensitive to palpations and anxiety. I also use to drink a lot of coffee which depletes magnesium from your body.
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