- 09-07-2006, 09:26 PM
Searched the site and net for a while trying to find some specific information, turned up nothing. I've read studies on the increase in of iron in blood, but I can't find many hard numbers on it in terms of iron chelation, along with other heavy metals, other than it is one of its properties.
Anyone know how active the substance oraly in terms of iron chelation, and its life in the body? Trying to figure out if it is worth it in terms of removing free iron from the body.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
- 09-07-2006, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by BryanFury
Would it be possible for you to clarify what your situation is?
Although inositol hexaphosphate (phytate) has significant chelating properties for doubly charged metal ions like iron, most of the studies are directly related to cancer and tumor proliferation.
09-07-2006, 10:19 PM
Ok, without going into my life story, I have a form of ataxia. The single destructive mechanism of it is iron buildup in cell mitochondria, causing cell death, which releases the iron into the body to cause more destruction. Basically, there is no "known" treatment for it for all major purposes. About 100k people in the US have it and by, well, my age, most are bound to a wheelchair.
Up until about a year ago, I was still boxing and fighting in some minor MMA fights. I have to pretty much devote all of my waking time to fighting this, because I plan to fight again, hell or highwater.
Enough of the sob story.
Sub-q chelation therapy eats up so much time, its quite hard to keep it routine and have any semblence of a life. I've been looking into other routes. From what I have heard, oral EDTA is all but useless. I may be wrong, please correct me if I am.
The first major breakthrough looks to be Exjade, but with the rate our systems in the US work, I don't think it will be available within the next 2+ years.
If anyone can offer any input, I am well prepared to run a log of sorts, just to see what happens. As of late, I hadn't frequented the site as often as I would like, due too time restrictions.
09-08-2006, 12:44 AM
Unfortunately, I really don't know much about the oral pharmaceuticals, but I do know nothing reduces high levels of tissue iron as efficiently as blood loss.Originally Posted by BryanFury
Therapeutic phlebotomies can remove about 250mgs of iron with each extraction, if your levels of hemoglobin are sufficient (if your not anemic).
For those with anemia, Desferrioxamine (Desferal) has shown good results.
Anyways, let's change the focus for a minute. You should be aware of the dangers of free radical pathology, due to your predicament. You should administer any and all antioxidants that you can afford to buy.
With your condition, the liver and heart, are in major need of protection from free radical damage. Research these products, and the truth will follow. Your quality of life has room for improvement.
(1) R-Dihydro-Lipoic Acid by Life Extention = One of the most antioxidants, due to the fact that it has the abillity to induce systemic recirculation of other antioxidants. It is also a major liver protectant. The form that I mentioned, is the form wich is naturally present in the body, and it is exclusive to Life Extention.
(2) Mega with Isosilybin B by Life Extention = Ecellent and effective with a long history.
(3) N-Acetyl Cysteine = E****lent liver detoxifier/glutithione enhancer. Used in hospitals worldwide for acetaminophen overdose.
(4) Grapeseed Extract (standardized to 20% proanthocyanadins) = Another top notch antioxidant/anti inflammatory, ect.
(5) CO Q10 = Powerfull heart protectant. Relates to mitochondrial activity.
(6) Ester C / Vitamin C = E****lent antioxidant amongst other things.
While these products won't directly assist you by means of iron chelation, they will provide significant protection against the adverse effects of free radical damage.
On a side note, do some research of your own and ask your doctor questions reguarding CO Q10, , creatine, and the importance of their role in mitochondrial activity, ATP, and Creatine Kinase.
INOSITOL HEXAPHOSPHATE http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/n...ino_0333.shtml
Well, I wish I could be of more assistance.
By the way, I am an MMA fighter as well and I just wanted to let you know, that I respect your determination.... a quality found in every good fighter.
09-08-2006, 01:02 AM
I'm using all of those you listed. My current antioxident load is as much as I can get without going into toxic levels.
My current line of thinking is that the antioxidents treat the results of the iron load, but don't effect the cause. Taking a step up the ladder, the next step would be focus on the iron surplus.
There isn't a lot available or known about frataxin function in mitochondria in respect to iron transport. Most studies date back to 96-01, so a lot of my own pursuits on the matter are self-testing.. The a good bit of journal reports say NAC treatment showed no use, while other speak of improvements and personal reports of "self-medicated" people report a lot of good things. Without more extensive study on the exact mechanisms, a lot is speculation, sadly.
As for fighting, I love it, have for a long time. I'll get back to it one day, at least thats my idea and I'm sticking to it. Thanks for the input.
09-08-2006, 01:05 AM
09-08-2006, 07:23 AM
Originally Posted by BryanFury
I see that you are taking sufficient amounts of antioxidants, but I was just wondering, how many times do you administer each day? Whenever I am adressing a more serious issue via supplementation, I divide it into 2 to 3 dosages a day. This ensures steady and continuous levels throughout the day vs. a daily spike in levels, where only a certain amount is absorbed.
Anyways, there is plenty of evidence to support NAC and it's liver protective qualities, in relation to regenerating liver stores of glutathione. Liver detox is extremely important under circumstances such as yours.
I know you stated that you take everything that I listed, but as far as ALA is concerned, when you take a dosage of let's say 500mgs, only about 250mgs is actually bioavailible. R-Dihydro-Lipoic Acid is the form wich is immediately availible to cells and it surpasses the bioavailability of ALA and K-RALA, and also greatly reduces the problem of polymerization.
Also, I had also previously suggested that you look into CO Q10, L-arginine, creatine, Creatine Kinase and their association with mitochondrial activity. Their mechanism of action is not speculative, but I am well aware that the treatment of your condition with them would be.
I'm not suggesting that you go out and start administering these supplements, but rather to truly understand their mechanism of action. Just trying to help.
Anyways, good luck.
09-08-2006, 05:55 PM
I've got the short-lived substances spread over 3 doses, the NAC upwards of 5 since it only lasts about 1hr in the body.
As for ALA, its dosing was far too high considering its lower availability and shorter life span. Ive since moved on to Na-rALA and the new RDLA from LS.
I've done my homework on mitochondrial functions and processes, in regards to what compounds further and fuel these cycles.
Like I said, just trying to take the next step.
09-08-2006, 07:00 PM
Although NAC has a low bioavailability, due to extensive first-pass metabolism in the liver, the terminal half-life of NAC is actually about 6.25 hours after oral administration.Originally Posted by BryanFury
09-08-2006, 07:02 PM
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