Hello I am new and had a very weird question
- 07-17-2006, 10:49 PM
Hello I am new and had a very weird question
Hi I wanted to say I just signed up after looking at what seemed like 50 or 60 web forums for bodybuilding, suppliments, fat loss, etc.
Most people did not seem to know what they heck they were talking about and or was selling something. This site seems to actually value science and actual human use
I am a strange duck as I am looking at this from the scientific side with a touch of body building intrest.
I have a degree in Applied physics and a list of other things that people tell me means I am smart
anyway my first question to the group would normally be a simple "look it up" and a FAQ question EXCEPT for the fact that I am talking about 7-OXO AKA 7-KETO DHEA.
I am taking ZMA/way to many vitamins to post here and I have a home gym and have worked out for 7 years.
I am 34 and 5 foot 6 and I have ALWAYS had a ***** tits and a belly no matter how hard I worked out or how little I ate.
At one point I weighed 204 pounds. I have also found that compared to even normal men I was very weak and when I first started to lift weights 75 pounds on a bench was all I could do (50% of bodyweight)
over the years thru seval years of weight training I have gotten better and my 1RM is now 175 pounds with a body weight of 165 pounds and a 33 inch waist.
I have an electronic body fat tester that says I am at 19% BF.
I have been on 7-OXO for one week at 100 mg x2/day and it is insane as while not a bigh deal to you guys who are hugh I lost 3 pounds and I am eating a ton of food!
okay the question is have any of you taken 7-OXO at these doeses or higher for longer than a week? The reason I ask is that while 7-OXO is not able to convert to Test like DHEA I am getting symptoms like if I was taking DHEA!
I know that must sound nuts but I swear to you it is the truth!
I have lost 3 pounds but my body shape has massivly changed. My man breasts are WAY down and even my watch is lose around my wrist. I have WAY WAY more aggression than I have ever had in my life. I mean I almost got into a fight in a nightclub! Again may not sound like much but I am a scientist not a boxer!
I even just started to get back acne! not much but I felt it and then confirmed it by looking in the mirror. My sex drive is up 300% and my muscle tone is crazy. Did I mention I have only been on for one WEEK?
my gut is shrinking so fast the strechmarks look like highways and I am lifting much more than I have even been able to do before but more importantly I am able to lift longer than before.
AGain since I am rambling my question is has anyone taken 7-OXO and felt like they were taking DHEA as far as anger and acne and other stuff?
Don't get me wrong I would not give this stuff up as I finally feel like a man! I even feel like women are noticeing me more!
could be I am just more apealing to women as a man without womens breasts
Thanks for any thoughts on this matter and while I am not a true bodybuilder I admire your guys desire to improve yourselves.
a reformed egg-head
- 07-17-2006, 10:52 PM
I'm going to Get Mulletsoldier, Yeahright, LakeMounted, and Skye to take a lok at your post. These guys are right up your alley. We have quite a few here actually but I follow these guys around a lot and can attest to their helpfulness and honesty.
- 07-17-2006, 11:01 PM
Those are some pretty dramatic changes for taking such a mild product for only a week. Some people have experienced good body composition changes with 7-keto but I haven't heard of anyone experiencing what you have.
I have taken it but didn't experience dramatic changes (I wasn't expecting any).
You could do some research on pubmed.org to see what the medical literature says.
BTW, did you have any bloodwork done before taking this? It may be that you have/had some underlying hormonal imbalance and that is why the 7-keto is having such dramatic effects upon you.
07-17-2006, 11:04 PM
As Jay noted - I can not really help anyone.
I merely have a chemical engineering degree. And am 26 - but going on 40.
Anyway - I've taken that dose of 7-oxo in transdermal form. I did not notice the results you are talking about.
I did notice the acne (but it was part of a PCT - and I ALWAYS get acne during that).
I also noticed increased body hair growth (and darkening of some body hair).
I say - stay on it if it's working that well.
Keep doin' what chu are doin' bruh!
Good luck - and stick around. We don't bite - hard...
07-17-2006, 11:06 PM
See, I knew i'd forget someone...But to be honest. jmh was too busy sexually pleasuring me to really be of any help to you at this time.
07-17-2006, 11:08 PM
I'm shocked! Shocked!
I never kiss and tell.
07-17-2006, 11:10 PM
I have never taken DHEA or any of it's derivatives, but there are a few possiblities as to why you may be experiencing these side effects.
The 7-Keto analogue of DHEA is specifically geared towards cortisol reduction if I am not mistaken, and the increase in thermogenisis. Meaning your body is more effieciently burning fat whilst holding onto muscle exhibiting the positive body composition changes you are experiencing.
DHEA is one of the most abundant hormones in the male body until around age 30 where it can drop significantly. Though the scientific and moreso anecdotal evidence I have seen does not lend DHEA to prominent effects on young males, it is obviously showing it's effectiveness for older gentlemen such as yourself.
What I find interesting is that the 7-Keto analogue is having such a pronounced effect on you, have you ever gotten a blood panel done to check your Test levels? I ask because some of the characteristics both physiological and cosmetic would seem you have low Test. But I am def no Doc, so I would not quote me on that.
Glad to see that it is working out for you though!
07-17-2006, 11:23 PM
I am going to have to go in and have them check me out because I think I must have had some issues I was not aware of because I really do feel diffrent.
I can tell you I have always been very sensitive to any medication even Aleve
I have to say I like the aggression though...I even got the nerve to walk up to a lady who I never met before and asked her for her phone number!
it was only afterwards when she was writing it down for me that I realized I did not think about walkingh up to her or what to say or not say or how she would react to me I just saw her and I thought she was cute and walked right up to her and started talking (that is a very big deal for a scientist)
Thanks everyone for the information I did think the way I was responding to keto was extreme but it sounds like ti need to go see the doc!
PS I am kind of cheap and I hate paying more for the 7-keto but based on the super strong effects it is having on me do you thing I can switch to DHEA or cycle betwen DHEA and 7-keto? IF I were to take DHEA would it be the same amount 200 mg a day or would I take less?
anyone have any thoughts?
Thanks for the help even if I get no other replys you have made a big diffrence in my understanding of how other people are being affected.
07-18-2006, 12:07 AM
I wouldn't change anything yet. In fact u should see him soon so he can observe your current state without any changes. Tell the Doc what your telling us and see what he comes up with. Since 7-Keto is non hormonal, and u are feeling the way that u are, I wouldn't switch to DHEA. Hey, if tests show no problems and the only issue is low test, we will surely be able to help u in that catagory!Originally Posted by Fernelias
07-18-2006, 12:25 AM
What form of 7-oxo are you taking? You can get bulk powder from some of the board sponcers here and add it to a transdermal matrix. This will allow you to not only obtain the product for less $$ but run a lower effective dose as the oral availability is moderate/low compared to transdermal.
Custom Nutrition Warehouse : 7-Hydroxy DHEA Powder [1 Gram] - $3.50
NutraPlanet.com: PENETRATE 8oz By NutraPlanet
07-18-2006, 02:09 PM
Talk to your Doc, explain what you've been taking and what you've been experiencing. Ideally, you would go off the stuff for awhile so you could get some baseline hormone measurements and then start taking it again to measure how it is effecting you.....but those are things to discuss with your Doc. Such a dramatic effect from a relatively mild compounds points to an underlying medical condition that should be identified. Unfortunately, being "on" the stuff may mask whatever the issue is and that is why I said that ideally you would get clean of exogenous hormones, take some measurements to see what your baseline values are, and then start a more mehtoidical course of treatment.Originally Posted by Fernelias
Best of luck to you.
07-18-2006, 02:54 PM
Hey yeahright. I just wanted to see what u thought about this as I might not be thinkin straight and I know u know your stuff. If 7-Keto does not convert, and is considered non hormonal, and he proceeded to go to the Doc and explain the phenomena while running some tests during supplementation, wouldn't it make it easier for the Doc to understand his current condition? Wouldn't tests still reveal an underlying issue if he was using 7-K?
07-18-2006, 10:15 PM
Perhaps he's just a hyper-responder??
Oh - I wish I were so lucky...
07-18-2006, 10:36 PM
First, I appreciate the kind words but I'm just some stranger on the internet. Don't put stock in what I have to say just because I've got some high rep count.Originally Posted by NO HYPE
With that said, I'm of the mind that body chemistry is far more complex than we usually think of it. The body is a series of dynamic systems which all feed back upon each other. Just because Compound X isn't (on paper) supposed to convert to Compound Y or aromatise or undergoe whatever chemical reaction we're concerned about, doesn't mean that it can't happen or that it can't set in motion a chain of molecular changes which would have a substantially similar effect.
I'm taking this guy at his word that he's experiencing exactly what he says. If true, that's pretty darn weird and it would concern me that there is some underlying problem that needs to be identified.
Maybe he has some problem and he's normally walking around with 100 times normal cortisol, so the 7-Keto had such a dramatic effect because it was addressing a dramatic underlying chemical imbalance? If so, he's going to want to know what the issue is (maybe a tumor on a gland).
Maybe he's a hyper-responder to this but because the body likes to keep things in homeostasis, his hyperresponsiveness is causing an equal counter-reaction in some other biocehmcical process?
See what I'm saying?
Maybe there's nothing wrong but 7-keto is a really mild compound and he's reporting effects that are like someone on Clen and a whole bunch of serious gear. It concerns me and my advice stands that he should get checked out with a doc........self-medicating without understanding his baseline values COULD be dangerous.
07-19-2006, 05:30 PM
Well put stranger.Originally Posted by yeahright
07-19-2006, 06:52 PM
It's not a tumah!
08-08-2006, 03:23 PM
Hey I wanted to give an update on my situation.
I have not gone to the doctor yet as I could not help myself I had to run trough my supply of 7-keto.
I was taking 100 mg twice a day before breakfeast and lunch.
one week after I originally wrote in the rage went away but the acne was steady and grew so that by the last week (4 week) it was now showing up on my face.
the first 3 weeks I was lossing major inches everywhere and dropped 3 inches from my waist goping from a 36 inch waist to a 33 inch waist.
the last week I stated gaining weight. I originally weighed 167 pounds with a BF reading of 20.5% I lost 3 pounds betwen week 1 -2 and then again 3 more punds between week 2-3. I then gained 6 pounds in week 4 putting me back at 167 pounds.
The thing is at 167 pounds my body fat reading was 16%! This matches the 3 inches loss around the waist and the crazy amount of streach marks all over my body. I even have a normal looking chest now and almost all of the ***** titties are gone!
for the record I have this information to sumbit for you guys start waist 36 inches 167 pounds at 20.5 % (132 pounds lean/34 pounds fat) at the end which was four weeks later 167 pounds at 16% (140 pounds lean 26.7 pounds fat)
so a gain of 8 pounds of muscle and a loss of about 7 pounds fat in four weeks taking a daily dose of 200 mg. I have always weight lifted for 2 to 3 times a week for aboput 30 to 45 minutes a day followed by running on an incline treadmill right after weight training for an additional 20-30 mintues coverina about a mile.
This is the first time I have had any changes in bodyshape and I directly link it to the 7-keto which I agree with the previous pollsters seems to mean that maybe I was out of wack hormonally and I am trying to get enough money to pay for a doc to look at me and my hormonal picture.
Again I just wanted to giver an update on what happened in my specic case and I understand other people may not react the way I did to this substance.
08-09-2006, 03:39 AM
Welcome and congrats on the results, any before and after photos to share? I agree that you may have had high cortisol levels, which could have made both losing fat and gaining muscle difficult. If this is the case you may benefit from Lean Extreme, retain or another ALRI product containing bEAT. That being said if your current routine is working, carry on. On a side note if you wanted to post your diet for critique that would be advantageous, as your progress over the years seems to be a little slow.
p.s. One can be a scientist/egg head and have a good physique and talk to women.
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