TTA effects on the liver...
- 07-05-2006, 01:29 PM
TTA effects on the liver...
So sure if this is in the right forum, but I'll start here. Just took my 1st dose of Omega's Burned. I did 8 weeks on and then 3 off of the beta. The thought that crossed my mind was "what kind of stress is TTA putting on my liver?"
TTA – turns the liver into a fat burning machine. Drains FFA from the blood and burns them up in the mitochondria/peroxisomes of the liver.
Well that sounds like a fair amount to ask of my most over worked internal organ. Has there been discussion on the potential long term efects as well as short term if used concurently to methylated orals and/or alcohol???
I'm not currently in either of these scenarios, but I could see them easily happening.
- 07-05-2006, 07:34 PM
You know, good question. I'm not exactly up to date on the science, but have you checked pubmed? If I'm not mistaken, TTA itself might act as an antioxidant, as initially the thought was to take extra antioxidants with TTA to help ease strain on the liver. Don't ask for a reference for that, its been a long time since I researched TTA.
I doubt there is an answer to this yet.
- 07-05-2006, 08:42 PM
i had a blood test recently and one of the liver enzymes was borderline high (AST?). i didn't tell my doc i had used TTA but i can't think of anything else that would effect that. i haven't been using any PHs or drinking alcohol. not sure...currently doing a retest, hope it's just a fluke.
07-05-2006, 09:25 PM
Could this be why you see the new Melting Point/Sesamin stack. I know Sesamin also helps out the liver, so along with its fat loss properties it could possibly aid the liver. I don't know, but if I find anything I'll let you know. It was just a thought I had when reading your post.Originally Posted by massmonster
07-05-2006, 10:01 PM
could be. if that were the case I'd stack kr-ala with tta. I never really got much from sesamin except nose bleeds.
07-07-2006, 11:32 AM
After taking TTA I would itch all over my body and from another thread someone informed me that this is a sign of liver problems. I continued to take the TTA and was going to get a check up from my doc (in order to get the blood tests done) but ran out of TTA before I could get the tests done.
It would be great if somebody got some blood work done while on TTA.
07-07-2006, 11:41 AM
That was me... the thread was about hepatitis and I simply noted that a skin itch is a common side effect. There are a plethora of reasons for skin itches, it only came up because he and his doctor thought that he might have non-viral hepatitis... I am also interested in seeing blood work done on TTA. Anyone know what happened to the guy (Dr. liftalot) and his potential hep. problem?Originally Posted by McBurly
07-07-2006, 11:47 AM
Working out can make your liver enzymes, or at least one of them, go nutty in the short term.Originally Posted by ckohl23
07-07-2006, 12:17 PM
the retest came back and both liver enzymes are high nowOriginally Posted by CDB
07-07-2006, 12:42 PM
are you still taking TTA?Originally Posted by ckohl23
were you still on TTA when you took the retest?
07-07-2006, 07:44 PM
How high was your TTA dose when you first noticed the itching?
07-07-2006, 08:01 PM
sorry about the misunderstanding... it wasnt me with the itching I have never used TTA. Here is the general thread on Hep.
Originally Posted by reidhoch
07-08-2006, 08:58 AM
yes i was still on, but i stopped using TTA after i got the retest results and am replacing it with fish oil for now. my doc is concerned and is ordering a second retest.Originally Posted by McBurly
my TTA was burn3d (with forskolin and GTE) plus i was taking primaforce cla which i have also stopped. i have a separate GTE which i will continue to take.
so in summary:
+ fish oil
if my second retest numbers go down to normal, then the liver situation is due to TTA, forskolin, CLA or some combination of the three. all other factors (diet, exercise, supplementation) will be kept the same.
07-08-2006, 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by ckohl23
Thanks for being a guinea pig and getting the tests done, really appreciate it.
07-09-2006, 07:43 AM
07-09-2006, 08:23 AM
Originally Posted by ckohl23
How elevated are the enzymes? I know that one enzyme in particular can be raised just due to working out (I believe its AST that is found in muscles as well as the liver), and I wouldnt doubt that both could be elevated to some small degree by normal everyday fluctuations in stress due to environment/diet/exersize, etc.
Remember, "high" is just a subjective term. The "high" threshold for liver enzymes testing isnt really indicative of very big problems. Enzymes of 50-70 are high but not necessarily indicative of a condition. Enzymes of 200+ are bad, as seen with some M1T users. My own enzymes were in the 300s when I had mononucleosis. Some heptatitis patients can get their enzymes into the 1000s. Yet anything over 45 is "high". See where I'm getting with this? Not to mention that the real danger lies in chronically elevated liver enzymes, not daily fluctuations since the liver is a regenerative organ.
07-09-2006, 09:57 AM
That sucks bud but thanks for getting the tests. Like someone else asked, is there any chance that you could post the actual results?Originally Posted by ckohl23
07-09-2006, 10:51 AM
Good post bro.Originally Posted by Enigma76
07-10-2006, 04:10 PM
good post. i don't have the numbers with me right now but i'm pretty sure they were under 200 (one of them was definitely under 100). so based on your post it doesn't look serious.Originally Posted by Enigma76
however, i would argue that it's still a red flag since i've had this blood test done many times before without it coming up. furthermore, i was still working out during those times so i'm not sure that is the cause.
07-24-2006, 10:51 AM
update: my doc would have called me by now if my third test results were still high, so i'm assuming everything is back to normal at this point
07-24-2006, 01:39 PM
Glad to hear it, thanks for checking back.
07-24-2006, 02:10 PM
I always thought TTA was good for the liver? This thread has me confused but i remember reading somewhere, that using TTA on a cutting cycle with anabolics was smart because it kept ur liver enzymes lower then without it. Im not sure tho now haha.
E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns
07-24-2006, 02:36 PM
Yeah, it would be nice to reach a consensus on this matter. We need more people to run blood work with TTA cycles. I've run two, but never thought to test. What's worse is that there are now no labs where I can get drawn in my town anymore. None of them do the independent/online blood tests anymore.
07-24-2006, 03:59 PM
Yea id def. like to know whats up with this. I thought when it first came out DS touted it as a potent anti-oxident that would HELP the liver, not hurt it.Originally Posted by bioman
E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns
07-24-2006, 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by 3clipseGT
Tetradecylthioacetic acid and tetradecylselenoacetic acid inhibit lipid peroxidation and interact with superoxide radical.
* Muna ZA,
* Bolann BJ,
* Chen X,
* Songstad J,
* Berge RK.
Institute of Clinical Biochemistry, University of Bergen, Haukeland University Hospital, Bergen, Norway.
Reactive oxygen species are thought to induce cellular damage and to play a pathological role in several human diseases. Tetradecylthioacetic acid (TTA) was previously reported to prevent the oxidative modification of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) particles and to act as an antioxidant. In this study we present a new fatty acid analogue, namely tetradecylselenoacetic acid (TSA), in which the sulfur atom of TTA is replaced by a selenium atom. TSA was more potent than TTA in increasing the lag time before the onset of LDL oxidation and this effect was dose dependent. TTA and TSA were shown to reduce the iron-ascorbate-induced microsomal lipid peroxidation, TSA being more efficient than TTA. TTA and TSA, in the presence of iron, interacted with the superoxide radical as assessed by direct and indirect testing methods. TSA like TTA failed to scavenge 1.1-diphenyl-2-picrylhydrazyl radicals. TSA bound copper ions as shown by the wavelength spectra measurement. These results suggest that TTA and TSA exert their antioxidant capacity by interaction with copper or iron ions in radical scavenging, TSA being more potent than TTA. Nevertheless, a chelating effect resulting in chemically inactive metal ions cannot be excluded.
PMID: 10832068 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
07-24-2006, 04:56 PM
Good post Enigma.
So who's going to come out with TSA first? lol
07-24-2006, 05:16 PM
unfortunately antioxidants and liver enzymes seem loosely related, if at all. otherwise doctors could simply prescribe vitamin C and E for liver disease and the liver function panel would come back negative. an extreme example, but you get the idea.Originally Posted by 3clipseGT
i researched a bit more and learned some things about ALT and AST:
- AST is also found in the heart, muscles, kidney or brain. setting aside the weight training idea mentioned earlier, another possibility is that the kidneys might be under extra stress clearing out all the ketone bodies that are produced during all the fat oxidation going on. this is probably the reason for DS's recommendation for extra water intake and minerals like potassium that are flushed out during this process.
- the most common cause for mild elevations in ALT and AST is fatty liver. maybe the intake of lipids from the bloodstream into the liver is overcoming it's ability to oxidate them at the same rate, leading to accumulation in the liver?
just guessing here, comments welcome...
07-24-2006, 08:39 PM
Antiinflammatory effects of tetradecylthioacetic acid involve both peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor alpha-dependent and -independent pathways.
* Dyroy E,
* Yndestad A,
* Ueland T,
* Halvorsen B,
* Damas JK,
* Aukrust P,
* Berge RK.
Institute of Medicine, Section of Medical Biochemistry, University of Bergen, Haukeland University Hospital, Bergen, Norway. email@example.com
OBJECTIVE: Tetradecylthioacetic acid (TTA) is a hypolipidemic antioxidant with immunomodulating properties involving activation of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs). Human endothelial cells express PPARs. We hypothesized that TTA could modulate endothelial cell activation at least partly through PPAR-related mechanisms. METHODS AND RESULTS: We explored this hypothesis by different experimental approaches involving both in vitro studies in human endothelial cells (HUVECs) and in vivo studies in humans and PPAR-alpha-/- mice. Our main findings were as follows: (1) TTA suppressed the tumor necrosis factor alpha-induced expression of vascular cell adhesion molecule 1 (VCAM-1) and interleukin 8 (IL-8) in HUVECs. (2) No TTA-mediated attenuation of VCAM-1 and chemokine expression was seen in the liver of PPAR-alpha-/- mice. (3) Whereas TTA markedly enhanced PPAR-alpha-target genes in the liver of wild-type, but not of PPAR-alpha-/-, mice, no such effect on PPAR-alpha-target genes was seen in HUVECs. (4) The relevance of our findings to human disease was suggested by a TTA-mediated downregulation of serum levels of soluble VCAM-1 and IL-8 in psoriasis patients. CONCLUSIONS: We show that TTA has the ability to attenuate tumor necrosis factor alpha-mediated endothelial cell activation, further supporting antiinflammatory effects of this fatty acid, possibly involving both PPAR-alpha-dependent and -independent pathways.
PMID: 15920037 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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