- 06-26-2006, 04:23 PM
I read a thread the other day about a guy who was taking fenugreek during PCT and had some nipple sensitivity. When he stopped the fenugreek, it went away.
Now I have researched a lot and I just kind of think its weird that everyone says to use it during PCT but theres no real concrete reason why.
The reason I ask is because I just finished up my PCT for a TRN/Zol cycle which went very well. I had bought some fenugreek and was going to throw it in my PCT but decided not to after reading that thread. I finished my PCT of Nolva/Retain/ / / and I just recently started an NHA stack.
I am on day 6 and I'm really liking it. My stack consists of 50mg ATD spread between the morning and night and 4 caps of bulk nettle root 95% from CNW per day. The strength is already going up and I'm liking the general sense of well-being. Workouts are wayyy more as well and I think its accelerating fatloss.
My real question is what benefit (if any) would I get from adding in Fenugreek with my NHA stack???
- 06-26-2006, 08:41 PM
- 06-26-2006, 10:22 PM
06-27-2006, 12:08 AM
Im sure the suggestion was given with good intentions, but this really doesn't help the post. The poster clearly asked for valid reasons (justification) for WHY he should or should not take it. The it works is just brologic. And the price is irrelevent to the question...especially if the poster is worried about possible negative effects. Remember, its not just a useful/waste question, but also a good vs. bad question.Originally Posted by Pitbull954
And I too am curious for an answer....especially in light of this study posted by Benson at M&M. And yes, we all know its a VERY high dose, and rabbits but still.
Contraception. 2006 Mar;73(3):301-6. Epub 2005 Nov 2.
Evaluation of the potential antifertility effect of fenugreek seeds in male and female rabbits.
Kassem A, Al-Aghbari A, AL-Habori M, Al-Mamary M.
OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to evaluate the potential antifertility activity of feeding diets containing 30% fenugreek seeds to male and female white New Zealand rabbits. RESULTS: The data presented in this study clearly demonstrate an antifertility effect of fenugreek seeds in the female rabbits and more of a toxicity effect in the male rabbits. In males, testis weight was reduced, with evident damage to the seminiferous tubules and interstitial tissues as shown by the histopathology of testis tissue sections. In addition, the plasma concentration of the androgen hormone and sperm concentrations were halved in the treated animals. In the case of the females, there was evidence of a significant reduction of developing fetuses as observed by reductions of both fetal and placental weights at 20 days of gestation and of the litter size. This was further supported histopathologically by the observed proliferative changes of the endometrial glands. The circulating plasma progesterone concentrations at 10 and 20 days of gestation significantly increased with no significant effect on the prebreeding estrogen concentrations in the treated animals.
06-27-2006, 12:16 AM
Thanks for posting that. I wondered if I was just paranoid, but at very high doses of fenugreek I noticed some very similar symptoms. I also noticed a marked reduction in speed and force of urination. I stopped using fenugreek and evertything went back to normal. All of the supposed sexual effects were just a present when I substituted Maca instead.
06-27-2006, 12:57 AM
read the bottom where it says about bodybuilding supplement
-hope this helps a bit
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Species: T. foenum-graecum
Fenugreek, also called methi, is a crop plant grown as a potherb and for the spice made from its seeds. The fenugreek plant grows wild from the eastern Mediterranean area to China; it is cultivated worldwide.
The name fenugreek or foenum-graecum is from Latin for "Greek hay".
Fenugreek is used both as an herb (the leaves) and as a spice (the seed). The yellow, rhombic fenugreek seed is frequently used in the preparation of pickles, curry powders and pastes, and is often encountered in the cuisine of the Indian subcontinent and Thailand. The young leaves and sprouts of fenugreek are eaten as greens and the fresh or dried leaves are used to flavor other dishes. The dried leaves have a bitter taste and a strong characteristic smell which means they need to be used sparingly.
In the Arabian nation of Yemen it is the main condiment and an ingredient added to the national dish called Saltah. The similarity in the Arabic word Hulba and Mandarin Chinese word Hu lu ba reveal the significance of fenugreek in history. Fenugreek is also one of four herbs used for the Iranian recipe Ghormeh Sabzi. Dried fenugreek leaves (called kasuri methi) are used in Indian and Pakistani dishes such as dahls, including in the Bengali spice mixture panch phoron.
A side effect of consuming even small amounts of fenugreek is a maple syrup or curry smell in the eater's sweat and urine which is caused by the potent aroma compound sotolone. Fenugreek is frequently used in the production of flavoring for artificial syrups. The taste of toasted fenugreek is additionally based on substituted pyrazines, as is cumin. By itself, it has a somewhat bitter taste.
Dried fenugreek seedFenugreek seed is widely used as a galactagogue (milk producing agent) by nursing mothers to increase inadequate breast milk supply. It has also been used to increase breast size. It can be found in capsule form in many health food stores.
In India it is mixed with yogurt and used as a conditioner for hair. It is also one of the ingredients in the making of injera/taita, a type of bread unique to Ethiopian and Eritrean cuisine. The word for fenugreek in Amharic is abesh, which is also often used as a natural herbal medicine in the treatment of diabetes. It is also sometimes used as an ingredient in the production of clarified butter (Amharic: qibÚ, Ethiopian and Eritrean Tigrinya: tesme), which is similar to Indian ghee. In Turkey, fenugreek gives its name, "šemen", to a hot paste used in pastirma.
Recently fenugreek has found its way into some bodybuilding supplements as it is suggested it may help stimulate testosterone production, although there is little evidence for this.
06-27-2006, 02:47 PM
I think the insulin like effect and the increased libido is the only advantages I've seen. because of the lactating issue I stopped taking it and gave it to my wife in hopes her breasts would grow.
06-27-2006, 03:24 PM
06-27-2006, 04:03 PM
OK well I have two bottles of 100 500mg caps. I'm throwing it in with my NHA. My thoughts are since some people get lowered libido with 50mg ATD/ED then perhaps it will help counter the effects.
So this brings up the question, why then do so many people use this in their PCT???
06-27-2006, 10:31 PM
06-28-2006, 12:29 AM
I think the primary reason, whether people admit it or not, is that fenugreek seems to increase the volume of ejaculate in men with high doses. I did not find that to be the case, whereas I did notice that effect with Maca.
06-28-2006, 03:33 PM
Well I ended up taking it anyway and started at 2000mg. This is day 3 and I think it is counteracting the ATD's negative impact on my libido. Sexual function does seem improved. I think the gyno effects were just exaggerated.
11-30-2006, 12:57 PM
11-30-2006, 02:19 PM
I am a little too blunt sometimes. in addition to the fen she is also taking 5htp and it seems to increase her libido. nothing else has been this effective. and its not real effective but I can tell the difference. she is cycling these. weightloss results are not that great and no breast size increase.
12-14-2006, 12:50 PM
from my ex girlfriends experience I got her a bulk supply of fenugreek and it took about 1 month before she started complaining of puberty type pains in her breasts so this is a good indication that it works!!
the phytoestrogens in it will increase fat gain in women and I guess men who have suffered from gyno in the past maybe it does tickle the receptors in that area!!
doubt if it would produce full gyno though as it is slow to work on women who have quite an advantage for growing em IMO
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