increasing natural hgh
- 05-27-2006, 04:06 PM
increasing natural hgh
hear if u take 1200mg of both arginine and lysine, hgh should increase by 700% . but arent arginine intakes way low considering some people are saying to have any effects u must take @ least 20 grams of arginine to see results.
am i missing something?
also, i hear L-glutamine is better with arginine.
any better combination or recceomendations ?
any thoughts, thanx.
" There are a number of substances that increase the natural secretion of HGH. Most of them are amino acids. The most effective and economical way of causing this HGH release seems to be taking 2 grams of the amino acid L-glutamine in the morning and taking 10 to 30 grams of the amino acid L-arginine before bedtime. Both of these amino acids must be taken on an empty stomach. "
from w w w . futurescience.com/hgh.html
- 05-27-2006, 05:54 PM
From what I've read a good arginine to lysine ratio is 3:2, with 3000mg of arginine. Also, IMO, glutamine is a waste. Try an AAKG/lysine stack for awhile and see how it works for you. Take one dose 3000mg Arg/2000mg @ 90 minutes before workout, and then also take it before bed.
- 05-27-2006, 05:57 PM
I take 7 grams of arg with 5 of lysine before bedtime.
Along with NOXidant (it's on clearance at Nutraplanet for $7).
I've had arg. base for a while - a kilo seems to last FOREVER - but I found this "heart health" orange mix with 5 grams of arg. per scoop for like $4 at Wal-mart. I just add 2 grams of base arg along with 5 of lysine (I buy the NOW brand of lysine as no one sells it by the kilo that I can see - hear that Custom?????).
05-28-2006, 05:20 PM
thanx for the reponses guys, but is arginine pyroglutamate and lysine a better combo or is arginine and ornithine better suitable and effective.
also, if i take arginine and ornithine combo, does it matter what form arginine is in, such as arginine pyroglutamate , arginine hydrochloride etc.
also, i get arginine in 500 mg here in canada, how many capsules must i eat a day top get the most effective use for hgh release ?
05-28-2006, 06:06 PM
GABA is awesome aswell for GH increase.
Some Studies Show 500% Increase In Growth Hormone with 5g of GABA
I got like 20 references to this if anyone wants
05-28-2006, 10:19 PM
Im not sure what form of arginine would be the most effective in this incident.Originally Posted by oasis2005
As for the dosage question, if you have 500mg pills and you want a 3000mg dose, then you would need 6 pills.
05-29-2006, 03:18 AM
There has been a patent filed for an ALCAR/Ornithine combo to release GH. (Or course, one can easily buy Ornithine and ALCAR separately and not violate any patent). The patent application references a study to support the claim, as follows:
Measurements of GH release occurring at 1.5 hours post sleep were performed on serum samples from a healthy 52 year old male volunteer. Controls and serum analysis for GH were measured by standard commercially avialable antibody capture technique. Experiments and measurement of results occurred between June and October 2000. Each single night experimental serum collection was separated from any other experiments by 1 week. All determinations represent averaged value of triple determinations. Acetyl-l-carnitine and l-ornithine values are in milligrams (mg). Measurements were each performed on serum collected 1.5 hours post night time sleep. Choice of 1.5 hours post sleep represents one complete sleep cycle with slow wave sleep during which GH is released. Oral ingestions of stated substances occurred just before night sleep. . The normal range of serum GH at 1.5 hours post sleep is in the 1-10 nanograms per milliliter (ng/ml) range. The variance in measurement precision is given by the second value. All experiments were preceded by a period of 3-4 hours since the last meal.
1 Measured GH Experimental Conditions (ng/ml) Control (no treatment) 1.5 hour post sleep serum collection 0.55 .+-. 0.2 500 mg Acetyl-l-carnitine at sleep, 1.5 hour post sleep serum 0.55 .+-. 0.1 collection 500 mg l-ornithine at sleep, 1.5 hour post sleep serum 0.55 .+-. 0.2 collection 500 mg acetyl-l-carnitine + 25 mg l-ornithine at sleep, 1.25 .+-. 0.3 1.5 hour post sleep serum collection 500 mg acetyl-l-carnitine + 35 mg l-ornithine at sleep, 7.5 .+-. 1.2 1.5 hour post sleep serum collection 500 mg acetyl-l-carnitine + 45 mg l-ornithine at sleep, 34.5 .+-. 3.7 1.5 hour post sleep serum collection
This data shows the absence of effect of either acetyl-l-carnitine or l-ornithine alone to augment GH release at 1.5 hours post sleep. Ingestion of both acetyl-l-carnitine and l-ornithine at night sleep displays a synergy that increases GH release with the level of l-ornithine. This data also indicates a non-linear increase in GH release with increasing l-ornithine in the the active mixture of acetyl-l-carnitine and l-ornithine. This data accords with our choice of 20 to 40 milligrams of l-ornithine along with the 500 milligrams of acetyl-l-carnitine as a proper range for maintenance of young adult levels of augmented human GH release.
Only 1 52 year old test subject though ;-)
05-30-2006, 01:49 AM
Originally Posted by 1HP
Nice work digging this up.....interesting.
05-30-2006, 02:52 AM
Growth Hormone Releasing Factor (GHRF) is released from the hypothalamus, which in turn stimulates HGH secretion from the pituitary. On the other hand, the hypothalamic hormone Somatostatin inhibits HGH release. With increased stress (such as weight training) or aging, there is a widening imbalance between “good” (stimulatory GHRF) and “bad” (inhibitory Somatostatin) activity on HGH secretion.
The result is usually enhanced Somatostatin action and decreased HGH release. Part of the reason for this imbalance is a concurrent decrease in levels of the neurotransmitter Acetylcholine2, which has been shown to play an important role in the control of HGH secretion from the pituitary. Research demonstrates that drugs that decrease Acetylcholine activity diminish HGH release, while those that increase Acetylcholine transmission potentiate the stimulatory effect of GHRF.
Arginine promotes higher hGH levels by blocking the secretion of the growth-hormone inhibitor somatostatin.
Arginine causes the secretion of growth hormone, a 5 to 10 gram intravenous infusion of arginine provokes the pituitary into releasing growth hormone.
05-30-2006, 02:58 AM
L-Arginine & L-Lysine compete for the same receptors, Arginine Pyroglutamate attaches to a different receptor allowing for synergistic effect. According to a 1981 study by Italian researcher A. Isidori, M.D., and his associates at the University of Rome, the combination of L-Lysine & Arginine Pyroglutamate, in 15 male volunteers, was 10 times more effective than taking L-Arginine alone.
L-Lysine greatly increases the effect of Arginine Pyroglutamate when used together.
arginine and ornithine have synergistic effects and will raise insulin as well as HGH levels.
Sounds to me like a combination of Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Arginine Pyroglutamate, L-Lysine and L-Ornithine before bedtime should have a positive effect on HGH + possibly GABA and L-Glutamine?
05-30-2006, 05:32 AM
I know the traditional combo was arginine and ornithine. Most brands of BB supps sold a combo capsule product of those two anabolic steroids about ten years ago. I used to think TwinLab's was the best for some reason; perhaps it was the cheapest because I was a poor college student.
As I recall from my reading back then, one would have to consume massive quantities (orally) of those to make them have any noticeable effect. Thus, I stopped buying them.
My source for that was probably the misc.fitness.weights newsgroup, or Ironman or MMI magazines. Those were the only places I really read much about supplements.
I didn't have much time, but dug the following up from a discussion on MFW. ALL OF THE FOLLOWING WORDS ARE QUOTED AND NONE ARE MY OWN:
Source 1: J Sports Med Phys Fit 1988 (35).
Source 2: J Amer Coll Nutr 1990 (2-12).
Study 1: Normal subjects in weight-training program (standardized)
given 1 gram l-arginine plus 1 gram l-ornithine. Supplement group
had better fat loss over the 5 weeks than the control group.
Study 2: Male and female BB given various amounts l-ornithine hcl.
Those given 170mg/kg bodyweight showed significant serum GH increases,
as much as 4X baseline.
Both studies used ORAL supplementation. Read them and decide for
05-30-2006, 08:42 AM
umm... arginine and ornithine are amino acids... not androgens.Originally Posted by methusaleh
IMO, I wouldn't bother with the whole GH secretion thing, I did it at one time too. I didn't notice a damn thing when I was experimenting with high doses of glutamine/ornithine/arg for GH. I would have saved alot of money if I knew this earlier. You're not going to make any gains off them, maybe some good pumps, nothing else. And the GH secretion effects are very temporary.. like 1-2 hours, making it a ***** to dose.
hope that helps
05-30-2006, 02:11 PM
Yeah I know they are amino acids, obviously, someone must have gone back and edited my post...don't know if it was a moderator on this site playing a joke, or if I forgot to log out of the computer at work and someone went back and did that to try to get me in trouble...
Time to change my password, thanks for noticing that!!!
05-30-2006, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by doom3q
well i hear arginine plus lysine is a combo that has effects. infact in one article i read on the net, a girl 19 year old took arginine and she grew like one inch in couple of weeks and her feet grew.
05-30-2006, 05:46 PM
Can you please post this article please, cuz I highly doubt the source is credible.Originally Posted by oasis2005
05-30-2006, 07:02 PM
" I personally know of one 19 year-old female who took L-arginine before bedtime for one week. She stopped after one week because it was making her nauseous, which was an indication of an excessive level of HGH release. Even though she had not grown since she was 16, during the subsequent month, she grew an additional inch, and had a noticeable growth of her heel bones."Originally Posted by idunk42
05-30-2006, 07:10 PM
That article has nothing to do with the case that you are referring to at hand. As far as you knowing her personally, that still doesnt prove anything. You also say that she only took l-arginine for 1 week. I highly doubt that supplementation for 1 week would provide a sufficient amount of a GH release for her to grow an inch, or even have much of any GH at all. Im sorry to have to say this, but Im calling BS, unless you can actually prove this.Originally Posted by oasis2005
05-30-2006, 11:41 PM
Just a (maybe) interesting FYI. My father is 5ft5. My mother is 5ft5. I'm 5ft6. Back in the late 80s/early 90s, I gave my little Brother (13 at the time) GH Enhancers and he grew freakishly fast that Summer. He's 5ft11... He also has a build like no-one else in our family. Big-boned. Wider wrists than me. Just bigger...
05-30-2006, 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance
suppose u use GH enhancers in ur mid 20's, can u still grow your bones wider ?????
05-31-2006, 12:08 AM
What type of GH enhancers?Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance
05-31-2006, 01:42 AM
Actually I'm not enclined to believe in a very noticable additional growth for youngsters by means of short term natural hgh boosting. Natural levels are pretty high at their age, anyways it's our "old guys" who are looking for ways to get the amount of hgh release we once had. The pgh product of universal kits also uses an "amino acid blend" Wonder if that's alcar/arginine/ornithine/lysine maybe even glutamine netx to the listed gaba/gabob etc?
btw thanks for the reps yeahright
Edit: ........ P-GH is a blend of amino acid growth hormone peptide bonds; 4-amino butyric acid (GABA), 7-amino-8-hydroxbutyric acid (GABOB), acetylglutamine. Seems like no alcar/arginine/ornithine/lysine, only gaba/gabob/glutamine.
05-31-2006, 02:13 AM
L-Glutamine and GABA
Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in our muscle tissue. Glutamine is a key factor in muscle growth. This means that the higher the muscle glutamine levels you can maintain, the less chance you have of falling into catabolism and the faster muscle will grow. ln one study on Glutamine, they found that a single 2gr oral dose of Glutamine, elevated circulating growth hormone levels by over 430%! Of course as l have said before, Glutamine is not toxic at all and it's one of the very very few supplements that you can take almost on a yearly basis. But if you want to "stack" it with GABA, is better to follow this cycle.
GABA is an important amino acid neurotransmitter in the brain. lt is involved in the regulation of brain's nerve cells and has been referred to as "the brain's natural calming agent". But this amino acid has shown also that it can elevate your hormone levels. ln one clinical study, it showed over a 5 1/2 fold increase in plasma growth hormones levels after GABA administration. So imagine what you can achieve if you take L-Glutamine and GABA at the same time! Let's see a good cycle that you can use here. Take L-Glutamine before you sleep, and GABA first thing in the morning for better results.
Week # L-Glutamine GABA
Week 1 2gr off
Week 2 4gr 1gr
Week 3 6gr 2gr
Week 4 8gr 3gr
Week 5 10gr 4gr
Week 6 10gr 4gr
Week 7 8gr 3gr
Week 8 6gr 2gr
Week 9 4gr 1gr
Week 10 2gr off
from bb.com http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/johnstack.htm
05-31-2006, 09:09 AM
I highly doubt that GH enhancers had to do with his growth, unless it was pure HGH.Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance
Yeah, ok so he's much larger than your parents. Well Im 6'5 and my dad's 5'8 and my mom is 5'7, so does that mean they were feeding me GH enhancers when I was younger.
05-31-2006, 09:51 AM
Actually, what did you type, the letters "A" "A" together? I noticed that the site has been changed to "spell-out" certain abbreviations. When you type "S" and "D" together, it will go back and spell out "superdrol."Originally Posted by methusaleh
05-31-2006, 12:30 PM
06-01-2006, 08:36 AM
Referring back to earlier posts, wouldnt toxicity be a concern when supplementing with higher amounts of arginine?
06-02-2006, 12:43 AM
Yea, 5 grams GABA works good, but it's big bad brother PGH-T has to be at least twice as strong without the niacan like flush effect. They accused you of pimping Phera-plex, but this what I have been pimping to my friends.Originally Posted by fritzer
06-02-2006, 12:54 AM
Here's something interesting. Talking about how arginine may assist with ED. Sorta hijack, sorta not.
Nutrients and botanicals for erectile dysfunction: examining the evidence.
Thorne Research, PO Box 25, Dover, ID 83825. email@example.com
Erectile dysfunction affects 50 percent of men ages 40-70 in the United States and is considered an important public health problem by the National Institutes of Health. Consumers are exposed to a plethora of natural products claiming to restore erection and sexual vitality. A review of the available empirical evidence reveals most naturally occurring compounds lack adequate clinical trials to support efficacy. However, arginine, yohimbine, Panax ginseng, Maca, and Ginkgo biloba all have some degree of evidence they may be helpful for erectile dysfunction. Improvements in penile endothelial L-arginine-nitric oxide activity appear to be a unifying explanation for the actions of these naturally occurring agents.
PMID: 15005641 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
06-02-2006, 04:24 AM
Dose-related effects of gamma-amino beta-hydroxy butyric acid (GABOB) infusion on growth hormone secretion in normal women.
Melis GB, Paoletti AM, Mais V, Mastrapasqua NM, Strigini F, Fruzzetti F, Guarnieri G, Gambacciani M, Fioretti P.
The effect of gamma-amino beta-hydroxy butyric acid (GABOB) infusion on GH secretion has been investigated in 3 groups of 6 normal women. Different doses (100 mg/min, 20 mg/min, 3.5 mg/min) of GABOB diluted with normal saline solution were infused iv over a 20 min period and compared with control tests performed using only saline solution. The infusions with GABOB at the doses of 100 mg/min and 20 mg/min were followed by a significant rise (p less than 0.01) in GH plasma levels, in comparison to control tests. The quantitative GH secretion after 100 mg/min GABOB infusion was significantly greater (p less than 0.05) in comparison with quantitative GH secretion after 20 mg/min GABOB infusion. After 3.5 mg/min infusion, only 3 out of 6 subjects showed an increase in the hormone concentrations. The acute injection with sulpiride (5 mg iv, bolus), performed either before or after the start of GABOB infusion, failed to affect GH response to GABOB. These results show that GABOB infusion induce a dose-dependent rise in GH plasma levels in normal women. The dopaminergic system does not seem to be involved in this effect.
Gamma-amino-beta-hydroxy butyric acid stimulates prolactin and growth hormone release in normal women
P Fioretti, GB Melis, AM Paoletti, G Parodo, F Caminiti, GU Corsini and L Martini
The influence of gamma-amino-beta-hydroxy butyric acid (GABOB) treatment on pituitary function has been investigated in this study. Different doses (50 x 100 mg) of GABOB were iv injected into three and six normal women, respectively. PRL and GH plasma levels were measured before and after the injection. The treatment with 150 mg GABOB, performed in another two normal women, was interrupted because of side- effects (loss of consciousness etc.) due to the treatment. The treatment with 50 mg GABOB did not induce significant variations of the two hormones; however, significant increases of PRL (P less than 0.05) and GH (P less than 0.01) plasma levels were observed after injection with 100 mg GABOB. The present data suggest that gamma-amino butyric acid (GABA) itself of GABAergic drugs might play an important role in the control of hypothalamic-pituitary function.
06-02-2006, 06:22 AM
How is Arginine Pyroglutamate different from the other forms of Arginine ex. Ethly Ester, DI-Malate, AKG?
06-02-2006, 06:49 AM
Fritzer says what! I thought 5g of GABA is bad? I take about 1-2g before bed when I need to get to sleep. PM me brotha!Originally Posted by fritzer
06-02-2006, 07:08 AM
ARGININE PYROGLUTAMATE is a dipeptide that may more easily cross the blood/brain barrier where it releases arginine, acts as a slow release glutamine, and increases acetylcholine. It does not compete with lysine to enter the brain.Originally Posted by b_delgros
06-02-2006, 08:37 AM
Why not just use generic HGH...? I mean sheesh.. intravenous arginine drips are, from what I understand, the only real way to have a great amount of efficacy from Arginine.. but Intravenous drips? Are we doctors? drug users?
Man... hgh... just get the real stuff.
06-02-2006, 08:42 AM
lol, I think thats a lil beyond "increasing NATURAL hgh" isnt it ?Originally Posted by Pax
Anyways I think I'm going to order some pght and some arginine/ornithine/lysine in whatever form they say is best and play a little with it.
06-02-2006, 08:00 PM
10-17-2006, 10:23 PM
20 references...um interesting to say the least, do you still have them handy ? Would you post them ?Originally Posted by fritzer
11-21-2006, 01:24 PM
In the past two years I've used gaba at varying doses up to 5grams nightly. I thought it was working but, when I stopped taking it I still thought it was working.
Seriosly the only thing I can definetly attribute to the GABA is skin flush and serious shortness of breath.
The studies show results but the theory has it that it cant get past the blood brain barrier to have any effect. My question is why did I feel like I was going to suffocate if it never hit my brain?
11-21-2006, 01:42 PM
Beverly International GH Factor.
Look into their research at the Beverly Site.
11-21-2006, 02:35 PM
Just because it didn't cross the blood-brain barrier doesn't mean that it couldn't cause an inflamatory response in your lungs.Originally Posted by GO_OUTSIDE!
For a GABA product which uses a special carrier molecule to cross the blood-brain barrier, look at the Neurobalance log in my sig. It's very interesting stuff.
11-22-2006, 02:06 AM
Universal kit's PGH/PGHt is also GABA based and has tons of positive feedback.
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