Need Help On A Gyno Reduction Stack!!!
- 04-12-2006, 03:32 PM
Need Help On A Gyno Reduction Stack!!!
Hi guys, i need some help on a gyno reduction stack. I was on Propecia for over 1 year and i got mild gyno from it which consists mostly of fatty tissue and i have a tiny little lump the size of a smallby my armpit. I can only find it when i search for it though. My left nipple was hurting to touch a few days ago and my actual nipples stick out just a little bit more than usual. My chest used to be tight and flat and know it is droopy and loose with mild gyno. Im 5'8 and a half inches tall and 160 pounds. I want to and kill this while it's still in the early stages.
I was thinking of doing a stack containg 2 of these 3 products. Nolvadex, Letro, Arimidex. I dont know which ones to stack and the dosages and cycle lenth of each. Also how would i taper off so i dont get a rebound effect of massive estrogen?
Can anybody who is experienced with this stuff help me out pelase? Thanks!
- 04-12-2006, 03:58 PM
A couple of thoughts.
During puberty I developed a very mild case of gyno. Nothing noticeable to anyone else, but there were hard discs that developed under my nipples.
Years ago when I first started playing around with tribulus I got the same symptoms, puffy itchy nipples, and the lumps got worse. This mostly resolved itself but the original "discs" remained.
A couple of years ago ALRI formulated a formestane product. I used that product after a mild HRT protocol using non-aromatizing androgens.
What amazed me was 4 weeks later I happened to check my nipples and the hard discs were totally gone. To this day they have never returned.
(It's too bad this product was "steroidal" and banned by the FDA.)
When ATD first came out I there were reports that this was resolving gyno cases quite well too.
The downside to ATD is that it seems to kill libido in most (myself included).
Methyl-ATD seems to have the same benefits without killing the libido. In fact for me it has the opposite effect.
(Methyl-ATD is the active ingredient in PCT by Anabolic Xtreme).
Keep in mind that I work with ALR who licenced this product to AX so consider my bias and do with it what you like.
Another alternative is to alternate between an aromatase inhibitor and non-aromatizing androgen (done with a doctors care of course).
The reason I like this approach is because of estrogen and aromatase action/reaction factors that many fail to consider.
Long term SERM or AI use can cause either estrogen rebound or Aromatase activity upregulation.
So the idea is to work with the body's actions and reactions rather than deal with bigger boobs than you started.
4 weeks of an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex will dry you out and *potentially* start reducing the gyno. (In many cases surgery really is the only option but this is worth talking to your doctor about)
After 4 weeks however, you need to worry about a potential aromatase rebound. Switching to a non-aromatizing androgen (oxandrolone is one of many good choices) can help counter this reaction.
When you discontinue the AI, Aromatase levels will rise for a period. however the increased androgen level will offset any estrogen increase. Oxandrolone actually has a secondary effect on reducing Estrogenic activity as well. If using a more suppressive androgen such as DHT, your natural test levels will decline and as a result your estrogen levels will also drop. However, due to exogenous administration of androgens your Androgen/Estrogen profile will be favorable.
4 weeks later, you can drop the androgens and start an AI again. (I personally like AI's better than SERMs for a couple of reasons in this case but it's a bit much to get into here)
Honestly, Methyl-ATD is probably your best bet and no prescription is required. The reason is because not only does it reduce estrogen levels (which is the goal of Nolvadex, Arimidex or anything else prescription you would take) but it also increases Testosterone production significantly. Your total androgen/estrogen profile will be greatly improved which is really a two-pronged approach to solving this problem.
Sure Nolvadex and Arimidex will increase natural testosterone production, but not to the degree of Methyl-ATD.
One final thought. Methyl-ATD could be cycled in the same fashion with a non-aromatizing androgen. I have known some who have done this and they have seen further improvement in their gyno.
- 04-12-2006, 04:08 PM
hrtguy, thanks for the reply. Im sorry im new to all of this and i really didnt understand. I should add that im predisposed to MPB so i cant take any DHT increasing products as i will shed tons of hair. Im either going to stay on Propecia or switch to Dutasteride as i think Propecia didnt really work that well for me. So im want to keep taking these to prevent hairloss while ridding of my mild gyno.
The thing that made my left nipple hurt was the Soy Isoflavanones because my nipples never hurt in over 1 year taking Propecia then 2 weeks ago i took a break from Propecia and started taking Soy Isoflavanone's and 3 days later my left nipple hurt to touch. It was the gland underneath the nipple that hurt. Also that lump that i have by my armpit is the size of a very small pea and it has stayed the same for like 6 months. My gyno isnt bad enough where i would ever consider surgery and ive read of people reversing their gyno with the drugs that i mentioned.
04-12-2006, 04:21 PM
Sure, I understand.
Honestly I think that 3 caps of PCT(methyl-ATD) per day would get you going in the right direction. You could also use plain ATD as well (follow their dosing instructions). Just keep in mind that it may significantly affect your libido.
If you want you could add in Nolvadex in the very beginning, however this actually becomes counter-productive long-term.
I would start with:
Day 1: 60mg
Day 2: 60mg
Day 3: 40mg
Day 4: 40mg
Day 5: 20mg
Day 6: 20mg
By the end of day 6 the methyl-ATD will be full swing in your system.
If you don't want to use methyl-ATD then I would replace it with a good aromatase inhibitor.
If methyl-ATD didn't exist and I was looking for the most effective option, I would use ATD and deal with the limp **** (my personal choice). I think Designer Supps still sells an ATD product.
If ATD didn't exist, I would then use an Aromatase inhibitor instead. (They work very well, just not as wel as the ATD/Methyl-ATD)
04-12-2006, 05:06 PM
Hi, thanks for the reply. Are you saying that methyl-ATD would be more effective than Letro or Nolva at reducing the fatty or growth tissue?
Im not that familiar with methyl-ATD but im leaning towards either nolva, Letro, or Arimidex, or a combo of 2 of those. I just have more faith in the drugs and mabye im wrong i'd like to get more feedback and responses if possible.
04-12-2006, 05:16 PM
I really do believe that methyl-ATD is superior for this particular purpose.
I don't want to bore you with Science Geek talk but bear with me for a moment.
An aromatase inhibitor competes with aromatase causing estrogen to drop
A SERM competes with Estrogen receptors stopping the estrogenic activity
Both of these cause an increase in testosterone production which is a good thing.
ATD and Methyl-ATD are also aromatase inhibitors which cause estrogen to drop.
This is also one way that ATD/MATD increases test production.
But ATD/MATD also selectively inhibits androgen activity in the hypothalamus.
What this really means is that there is a second mode of action that tricks the body into making even more testosterone.
So ATD/MATD have the advantages of a straight aromatase inhibitor plus this second mode of action. Increasing androgen levels will also improve your reduction of Gyno.
I can understand your skepticism as these compounds still really amaze me. You could also combine an aromatase inhibitor with ATD/MATD and while I don't think there would be a significantly added benefit (and of course greater cost) it wouldn't hurt when considering short term administration.
(Making estrogen too low for too long is never a good idea)
Hope this helps.
04-12-2006, 07:31 PM
HI hrtguy, thanks for the info i appreciate your help. Yeah i have to admit that taking Arimidex or Letro scare me a little and i dont know if taking these along side Dutasteride is a good idea. Are you familiar with Dutasteride? Its for hairloss.
So would Anabolic Xtreme PCT raise my DHT levels? I definetly dont want something that will increase DHT as i will lose hair. How does Xtreme PCT work to reduce fatty or gland gyno? Does it lower estrogen through increasing DHT or does it fight for the aromatize? I dont want my testosterone increased that much and most of all i dont want my andro levels increased either as andro is the WORST for hairloss. What would be the ideal dosage's and time frame on it and how would i taper off? Sorry for all the questions.
04-12-2006, 07:43 PM
I think the way I can be most useful to you is to give you some more background/info on gyno first.
Try reading this article that talks about the various contributors to gyno. Once you've read it feel free to send me a PM and we can go into more detail.
04-12-2006, 07:52 PM
Consider researching these and search for feedback also from users....a product called Tribuloid (which i had to stop because of being to edgy) which contains the first 2 ingredients which are also common in other formulas, ...seemed to tighten my nips up bigtime even though i had only taken it for 4 days...
04-12-2006, 08:37 PM
Hi hrtguy, i cant send you a pm for some reason. I'll give you my full story.
About a year and a half ago i was concerned about a receeding hairline and wanted to try and stop it. At this time and currently ive never really worked out i had good genetics for muscle building and i was lean and muscular naturally. I was about 20 years old. My pecks were flatter and tight. I was working afternoon shifts and my work switched me to night shift which really messed me up. I started taking Saw Palmetto and after i few months i noticed that my pecks were droppy instead of tight and it seemed like they were retaining a ton of water. There were studies showing that Saw Palmetto grew breast tissue in females so i guess its possible for a man too. I just thought mabye it was fat but i didnt really gain any weight or fat anywhere else. So i quit and started Propecia 1 year ago to prevent hairloss. I kept track of my chest and my nipples were little bit itchy a few times here and there but it was really nothing. My chest still seemed droopy and about 8 months after taking propecia i started examining my chest closer and i had to look hard but i felt this little lump in between my left nipple and armpit. It's abou the size of a very small pea and i can move it around slightly. I went to my Doctor and he said it was just fatty tissue. I dont think my Doctor knows a whole lot about stuff like gyno he only knows about stuff like cancer,flu, and diseases,ect. That small pea sized lump has stayed the same size ever since and it doesnt hurt to touch. My nipples never hurt but the point in the middle of my nipples sticks out just a little bit more than normal, id say mabye 1mm or less. So i went home from the Doctors and checked out my chest again, i let my peck loose, grabbed and twisted it, then flexed right after and i saw this type of stringy fat appear and i could move it around for a second then it would disappear back into the muscle quickly. I would only be able to see or fell it for a second doing this method. This happened in both pecks. So i read that gyno can be tissue or hard lumps. When i grab my chest i can grab ahold of a bunch of skin or fat but when i flex my chest is solid. So about 2 weeks ago i stopped Propecia and i started using taking Soy Isoflavanone pills for like 2 weeks and a few days ago my left nipple started to hurt when i touched it. I can feel the gland underneath my nipple and i read that everyman has this. But th gland hurt to touch. So i assumed it was the Soy Isoflavanone's because my nipple's didnt hurt when on Propecia. So i dropped the Soy Isoflavanone's and today myy left nipple hardly hurts to touch but the gland in my left nipple feels bigger then the gland in my right nipple. So basically i think i have a very little hard lump gyno, some fatty tissue or breast tissue, and water retention. So basically a mild case of gyno. Propecia reduces DHT so Testosterone and Estradiol are increased a bit.
So basically i need to shrink some gland tissue, fatty tissue, and water retention. I would like to shrink the glands under my nipples too. I want to switch to Dutasteride that inhibits a bit more DHT than Propecia because i never really had that great results with Propecia and i feel that with natural anti-e's i can prevent further gyno but i want to get rid of or shrink myy current mild situation.
What would be the best for me? I cant use anything that increases DHT or anything containing Androstenedione. Thanks!
04-12-2006, 08:58 PM
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