- 03-24-2006, 12:07 PM
I haven't been using supplementation for very long, well outside of protein - even that was sparse. Last year my training partner introduced me to M1T and the results were great. However, I stopped using it because of the 'under the counter' nature of the product.
My question is what is on the market right now, legal, that comes close to or even exceeds M1T?
Thanks and I look forward to your responses.
- 03-24-2006, 12:30 PM
Did you do PCT (Post Cycle Therapy) when you ended the M1T?
It sounds like if all you have been taking is protein and you yourself admitted to not taking very much, maybe to be made up in whole foods?
You should probably look at the training and nutrition forums before wanting something that "exceeds" M1T.
Speaking of Exceed... that is a great idea. Start with a protein powder and a good creatine product. Haven't tried Exceed from Designer Supps but CreEthyl Thunder by Omega Sports is awesome.
Stay away from the oral AAS for a while.
- 03-24-2006, 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by flytrapcan
03-24-2006, 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by JonesersRX7
I have really stepped up my protein intake lately and the benefits are of course noticable. I've never been too much for those things but with my newest training partner the intensity of the workouts are unbelievable compared to my usual couple times a week if I felt like it.
My reason for this post is that I have always enjoyed being a naturally big guy and after trying M1T it highlighted the possibilities of what supplementation could do for a body.
03-24-2006, 01:03 PM
The problem that you fail to realize is that M1T is not a supplement, it's an oral steroid.Originally Posted by flytrapcan
03-24-2006, 01:04 PM
not natural any more after taking M1T though.... its a steroid after all..Originally Posted by flytrapcan
03-24-2006, 01:09 PM
Yeah I knew and accepted any risks for the chance to try it. I saw all these guys using juice around the gym and they still barely got to my size, so I wanted to see what something like M1T, which is not as potent as a steroid for sure, could do for me.Originally Posted by Old Guy
I enjoyed the strength boost, I was maxing out just about every machine and weight rack for big reps. It was the coolest to bang off 12 reps with the 150s on the flat press. I can use them anyway but 6 or 7 is my max. I've been accused of being a juicer for as long as I've been in a gym, but I didn't feel so honest when I was taking M1T. That's why I have been trying Gakic - good product for stamina so far but not so much on the increase in power.
I've been hearing about Leukic and ErgoMax lately.
03-24-2006, 01:12 PM
It's one of the most potent (side effect wise) orals there is.Originally Posted by flytrapcan
.... n/m Good Luck to you!
03-24-2006, 01:13 PM
Exactly, and a very potent one.Originally Posted by JonesersRX7
03-24-2006, 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by nick500
Well it's the grey area that bounds steroid and PH.
03-24-2006, 01:25 PM
Well you came to the right place to get the information you need. But to answer your question, nothing that is actually a "supplement" will give you anywhere near the results of M-1-T and some of the newer products that are out now.Originally Posted by flytrapcan
You will need to spend a lot of time researching and learning what these products actually are, and the proper way to use them. Just search and browse the Anabolics, Post Cycle Therapy, and Cycle sections, and you will see that this stuff is not to be taken lightly.
Welcome and enjoy the board.
03-24-2006, 01:30 PM
M1T is one of the most potent and borderline pisonous oral steroids available, legal or illegal.Originally Posted by flytrapcan
I've never used Leukic. ErgoMax is another steroid, not as powerful as M1T and not as bad with sides. No offense, but you should back off using these things until you do a lot more research. Steroids are not as horrible as many make them out to be, you're not likely to die from use, but they can **** you up in ways that can dramatically affect your quality of life for a while, perhaps even permanently. I've you've gotten as big and strong as you claim without steroids, why use them to begin with? Unless you're competing or have a clear goal for strength or mass gain/fat loss or body recomposition in mind, there's no point in using them.I've been hearing about Leukic and ErgoMax lately.
03-24-2006, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by CDB
These responses are a real eye opener for me and I'm grateful to be getting them.
03-24-2006, 04:52 PM
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Back down South for the minute
- Rep Power
I love to say, M1T is Anabolic Rat poison. You got turned onto the heroin of oral steriods and didn't even know it. I'd encourage you to hang out and read for the next few months. When the pupil is ready, the answer will be there.
My The 1 LOG: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/254164-my-one-log.html
03-24-2006, 06:15 PM
Steroids are misunderstood in the end, as are many of the people who use them. As such you'll get a lot of replies you might not have expected. Personally I'd recommend you hang out here, there's plenty to read and learn here about everything related to working out.Originally Posted by flytrapcan
Also, if you haven't done this since your M1T cycle, I'd say go to a doctor for a physical just to make sure everything's working good. One cycle is not likely to do much of anything to you, but M1T is harsh as people have said. There's blood work out there from people showing natural testosterone production dropping to near nothing in as little as 3 days on that stuff, and liver values blowing through the roof into Mars territory too. Always good to be sure.
03-24-2006, 08:30 PM
so if your main goal was to gain size and strength and to keep your gains after [also not to kill your liver] and you could choose between M1t ,ergo max, or PP whats the best?
03-24-2006, 10:09 PM
What is the point of this post? It would seem to me like you are trolling the boards, and if that's the case take it somewhere else.Originally Posted by IblazeI
03-25-2006, 09:16 AM
I'd avoid the M1T. The EM and PP are different versions of the same thing. I think EM is generally cleaner with regard to sides, PP may have slightly better results. The latter two would be the better bet, proper PCT to keep the gains.Originally Posted by skull
03-25-2006, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by CDB
So we are settling for the lessor of the evils?
Let's get this straight guys, if you don't want to admit it I will. We are creatures of immense ego and anything to boost our standing even if in our own minds is worth just about anything.
Having said that ... what the heck is PP?
The 'Heroin' ? Come on it's not that great or powerful - I get the point though. I know the stuff gives some great results, I've seen them in my training partner. He started at 190 and now weighs 205'ish. That just does not sound like a steroid like result. Especially after he has used it for at least 6 - 7 cycles.
I guess my attempt at this post was to find a legal and heathly, non-threatening way to harden my curent weight. I've dropped from 260 to 245, and I just want to keep my mass while cutting up a little more. Right now it looks like I'll need to hit 230 to have a set of abs and vascular look, I'd love that to be 235 instead.
At this moment I am trying to consume lots of protein, not 1g/lb but I have never gotten anything close to that, although I would say I've doubled my intake. I also started trying Gakic which I will say has really raised my stamina a noticable amount, which helps with a higher rep regime.
Keep it comin guys there's a fountain of knowledge here.
03-25-2006, 10:16 PM
flytrapcan, I suggest you read/search function on m1t and steroids in general if you want alternative choices in "supps" with similar potency. Because nothing legal comes anywhere close to m1t in gains and unfortunately side-effects. PP is another oral steroid.
m1t is old hat, old news and illegal for some time now being a federally scheduled steroid. Theres a million threads on it and it a trite subject for many of us.
Anyone who has even the slightest idea of how to use steroids would not take 6-7 cycles to gain 15lbs to get to 205. Maybe your friend who took m1t wasn't aware it was a steroid and didn't eat or train.
Legal and safe supps would be some of the newer creatine esters.
03-25-2006, 11:38 PM
Depends on your risk reward ratio. If you don't mind a natural test level of zero, liver values going sky high, periodically going majorly hypoglycemic and ridiculous lower back cramps, M1T is the ****. Those are all possible side effects of all steroids, M1T in particular. The gains off M1T for people who ate and trained right were fairly impressive, so I'm guessing the friend you cited either didn't do one or both of those, did not do a proper PCT, or maybe even had an underdosed product.Originally Posted by flytrapcan
Phere Plex, one of the newer semi legal steroids. As for being a creature of ego, I'd love to be huge like I was when I was young, but the risks aren't really worth it for me at this point so it's not for me.Let's get this straight guys, if you don't want to admit it I will. We are creatures of immense ego and anything to boost our standing even if in our own minds is worth just about anything.
Having said that ... what the heck is PP?
Problem is people can do legit dbol cycles with little to no results as well. The most likely reasons are poor diet and training, in that order. Poor or no PCT is another. Steroids aren't magic pills, they need to be used properly to get gains. Otherwise you get a little anabolism and some nutrient partitioning benefits for a few weeks and then a few weeks to several months of being more catabolic than normal if you don't do a proper PCT, in which time you lose most if not all the gains you made during the cycle, which themselves are determined to a great deal by diet.The 'Heroin' ? Come on it's not that great or powerful - I get the point though. I know the stuff gives some great results, I've seen them in my training partner. He started at 190 and now weighs 205'ish. That just does not sound like a steroid like result. Especially after he has used it for at least 6 - 7 cycles.
Many people take steroids because they're not gaining weight anymore. However, if they're not gaining weight then by default they aren't eating enough. If they were, they'd be gaining something, if not muscle, because even the most ridiculous routine will give some results if done with dedication so long as a person's diet is correct. So you have someone using steroids who already has an inappropriate diet for natural training and someone who is also likely not taking proper PCT, diet and training steps after their cycle too.
There are various fat burning and body recomp stack logs here, do a search for those terms. Some use currently available steroids, some use other types of supplements that can be effective as well, and are much lower risk, like TTA in Designer Supplement's Melting Point.I guess my attempt at this post was to find a legal and heathly, non-threatening way to harden my curent weight. I've dropped from 260 to 245, and I just want to keep my mass while cutting up a little more. Right now it looks like I'll need to hit 230 to have a set of abs and vascular look, I'd love that to be 235 instead.
03-26-2006, 01:46 AM
I hope I don't come off as an *******, because that's not my intention, but don't do steroids for at least another 3 years. go to the nutrition forum or email me and I can definitely send you some good links/info about diet. You say that you're 245, and that's awesome to begin with, so a little knowledge about diet will do you really good.Originally Posted by flytrapcan
1g/lb of protein is the least you have to eat, on a bulk you should be hitting about 2g/lb.
BTW, the reason your friend has only gone up 15lbs in 6 cycles is because his diet is flawed, NO DOUBT about it.
Good luck! you've come to the right place!
03-27-2006, 11:09 PM
03-28-2006, 02:14 PM
Yeah my eyes have been opened. To tell ya the truth all this stuff is scarey.
03-29-2006, 06:49 AM
I wanted to thank you guys for your help. Now I'd like to know what to suggest for a PCT for my friend. He's dead set against stopping his M1T - he's a very very hard gainer and losing even a pound would freak him out. I don't think I need anything since since I did it maybe 4 times and stopped about 5 months ago. Or do I? I was using Tribulus.
03-29-2006, 10:03 PM
If I were you I would go to a doctor and get a full blood analysis. 4 cycles of m1t with trib. as only the pct was not a very safe move. There is a great possibly that your natural hormone levles are very askew, which without correction would hinder future gains and many aspects of your overall health. I will let someone else reccomend a pct for m1t, but Nolva is a must and there are newer products out there such as Rebound XT that would not be a bad idea as well. Get your friend to come on here and search through all the material on this site and take him to the doctor to get the same blood analysis. Good luck.
03-29-2006, 10:31 PM
Good lord......4 M1T cycles with no PCT? Am I reading this right? Def get a blood panel done ASAP.Originally Posted by flytrapcan
- For future reference, and everyone else on this respected board will tell you the same thing do some research (I know..is there an echo in the room?)
- Second- Based on your max bench press of 150lbs, you haven't even come close to your natural potential, you should have held off on any anabolic aids for a couple years (after you have done the proper research of course).
-Third- If your friend thinks he can do M1T without cycling out...may god have mercy on his liver and lipid profile. He should stop NOW and get into a PCT regime (Rebound XT or Nolvadex w/ some liver protection (fish oil/Milk Thistle/NAC/ALA) which he probably hasn't done).
03-29-2006, 11:09 PM
Unitas, you read his post wrong, he said he was doing the 150lb dumbells 12 times, not maxing out 150 on bench.
03-30-2006, 07:01 AM
Thanks guys, I had blood work done a couple of weeks ago, still waiting for results. I'll jump on the PCT right away.
03-30-2006, 07:22 AM
I've been looking for Rebound XT and Nolvadex - found Nolvadex XT by Gaspari. My question is that because I'm in Canada and the order has to cross the iron border, which is more likely to make it through? don't wanna spend the money and have a customs agent holding it back.
03-30-2006, 09:40 AM
Rebound and Gaspari Novedex XT have the same active, ATD, but Gaspari's product has some additional substances in it.
Novedex XT (ATD) is not the same as Nolvadex (a SERM).
03-30-2006, 09:43 AM
The Rebound will make it through I've ordered it quite a few times. You don't want the Gaspari product you want Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) not Novedex there is a huge difference between the two Nolvadex is a SERM and Novedex is an ATD (do a search for more info on the difference of these compounds). Due to board rules I can not tell you where to get Tamoxifen but do a search and it'll probably lead you to some of our board sponsors here and you might be able to get what you need. I too live in Canada and have no problems securing the stuff that is needed to do my lab research with my ratsOriginally Posted by flytrapcan
03-30-2006, 09:44 AM
I doubt he was doing the 150 lb dumbells. That would be 300 lbs on dumbells (150x2), and I don't know many people that can do that. If that's the case though, good job bro!Originally Posted by ktw
If he mean he was benching 150 lbs in dumbells on M1T (75lbsx2) he still has a long way to go (without Hormones).
03-30-2006, 10:01 AM
Originally Posted by unitas27
Nope it was the 150's, my dumbell press has always been strong. Funny though I can't bench for ****
03-30-2006, 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by jecko29
03-30-2006, 12:58 PM
Is that your back in the avatar?
I can believe 150lbs dumb bells.
03-30-2006, 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by JonesersRX7
That's me. It's my only good angle.
03-30-2006, 01:36 PM
M1T is a bad ass steroid ,it just slipped through the cracks some how . With M1T you will see great strenght results and will probally keep 80 % of you gains but the side effects are horrible . For me it started with back trouble and that ended up being kidneys , urine turing almost brownish/redish. M1T raises your test level so high that your body just about stops producing and when you come off of the cycle your body hits a all time low , where talking depression , until your test level gets back where it needs to be . Then you have you estg. level blasting through the roof , which results in ***** tits and for me that resulted in surgrey to get rid of them . I used M1T from the time it came out until about a year ago and for strength and mass you want find quicker results but anybody that uses this product it is a must to have clomid , and nolva and i still dont think its a good idea . M1T is a bad ass steroid that will make you so big you cant get through the door at the gym and then slam your ass in the wall . When M1T was banned i orded 50 bottles and i would not give them to anybody much less sell the crap . If steriods are a must there are much safer things to use .
03-30-2006, 01:57 PM
Thanks for sharing bigballer99 - I had trouble typing that one. People need to hear the results of doing anything without proper planning and knowledge.
I can't believe the knowledge I've gained since joining this Forum, it's a must for anyone looking to get started and keep their health.
03-30-2006, 02:53 PM
Just wondering, what is your chest development like if you say regular bench is hard but you can do that much on dumbells. For me, dumbells do nothing for my chest, so I wonder if it is the same for you as you said your back is your only good angle.
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