Flax Vs. EPA Fish Oil-Which one has more therapeutic value?
06-20-2003 02:15 PM
Running with the Big Boys
Cod oil is a great sorce of the active oils, but it also contains large amounts of vitamins A and D, which are fat-soluable. Geting yoo much of these m which is not hard, can have bad consequences.
06-22-2003 11:21 AM
AnabolicEffects.com- the pursuit of the anabolic life.
06-23-2003 01:49 PM
yeah , especially when the whether is hot , ure supposed to go easy on the cod liver oil caps as excessive vit D in the body isnt healthy .
a few things about fish oil though :
its better than flax becos caffine(cola, coffee) prevents the flax from converting into EPA ,fish oil is a better choice at this point .
side effects seems to be the increase in clotting time and affect the immune response (decrease it). [the side effect part was taken from haycock's site , am not too sure myself) .
06-27-2003 06:09 PM
Flax is rich in Omega 3's but also has the Omega 6 and Omega 9.
I just bought 300 capsules of fish oil at Sams for about 6 bucks
I hear Barlean's is a good brand of flax.
I would have to go with the fish-oil as a better bet, only b/c of the exclusive use of Omega-3, which we don't usually get from our diet.
Last edited by derekmac; 06-27-2003 at 06:27 PM.
02-12-2005 10:24 PM
TL makes a couple very good fish-based omega 3 products in liquid form:Emulsified Liq. Omega 3 12 oz. retail 13.95 , and Emulsified Super Max EPA , 12 oz. retail 17.95. Both are mint flavored and very tolerable. During the winter months I always use reg. TL cod liver oil liquid, then switch to one of these during warmer times of the year. I believe Barry Sears of The Zone fame was the first nutrition writer in the early- mid 90's that informed the public that using fish oil instead of flax oil was the way to go, simply put, since the fish has already done the conversion for you, why use flax, with it's complicated bio-chemical gymnastics necessary to make it usable in the first place?
02-13-2005 12:07 AM
This is an old thread, most of these folks are gone.
But, I do think that Sam's has the best deal on fish oil caps, as mentioned above. Only $6.50 for 300 caps of 300 mg dha/epa.
02-13-2005 07:56 AM
damn good price, but do they guarantee screening for heavy metals. Yeah, I see now it's an old thread, just looking around last night, great forum, I'm usually over at 1 fast 400.
02-13-2005 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by jmh80
Is that per cap? Reason I ask is that I have been buying the Kirkland brand from Costco (like $8), 300 caps of 500 mg epa/dha. But that is per serving, which is two caps. If that is per cap, it is a better deal.
02-14-2005 01:38 AM
hemp oil will test postive for marijuana.but will it actually get someone high? or have the effects of maryjane bobo?
03-14-2005 03:32 PM
Get big or die trying
I hate to bring up this old thread again but i've got a question. Hopefully Bobo can help me out here.
I've been using flax pretty much exclusively for the last year or so and had always thought that it was superior to fish oil (think i picked this up in my health psyc class). But after reading some stuff about sesathin and using fish oil b/c it's superior to flax got me interested.
So is this thread still applicable or have new studies shown that flax is a better oil. I eat a relatively low fat diet, and the majority of my fat comes from flax. Just want to know which is the best so that I can go w/that one.
03-14-2005 07:29 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe Bobo has a difference of opinion with the Avant guys on this topic. I've read posts on this board by Bobo staying people could get away with only a couple of capsules of fish oil per day. On the avant board, it is recommended to use 3 g of EPA/DHA per day when taking sesathin.
Originally Posted by Sticks
I've been running about 3g of EPA/DHA per day since I started sesathin in December (I'm no longer taking it). Recovery seems improved, decrease in soreness, and possible anti-depressant properties for me. Since I can use alot less Fish Oil (5 x 600mg EPA/DHA caps per day = 10 g of fat or much less with pharm grade) compared to Flax Seed oil (I need 14-28 g per day to feel some of the same effects), I find Fish Oil better for my diet. For a 40/40/20 diet, I have a little more room for red meat that way too.
03-14-2005 07:39 PM
I like to mix things up; I take 3-6 fish oil caps and maybe 2-3 borage oil, or maybe 1T of flax other days. I mix flax oil w/ natty PB too. I doubt that I don't get enough of the "good" fats given this regimen. I think one of the concerns with huge amounts of daily fish oil is the cumulative overdosing of vitamin D, which is present in the fish oil and not water soluble. Therefore you can't just piss it out, as you would with others like vitamin C, etc.
03-26-2005 06:41 PM
I was wondering how much Bobo suggests taking (EPA/DHA)with sesathin?
Originally Posted by biggjohn
I ask because some capsules have more epa/dha then others.
03-26-2005 06:54 PM
Flax Seed Benefits vs. Fish Oil Benefits
Flax seed oil benefits are numerous, and as such flax seed has been recommended in recent years as an essential part of a healthy diet. However, new evidence has emerged that although flaxseed is important, fish oil might be an even better source of Omega-3 fatty acids.
What are flax seed oil benefits and how can it help you?
Flax seed, also known as linseed, is an ancient crop that has been harvested all over the world. Its therapeutic properties have long been touted, as ancient peoples used it to soothe abdominal pains and aid digestion.
Flax seed oil contains Omega-3 fatty acids, which have incredible immunity boosting qualities, meaning they can help your body fight off illness and disease. They also contain anti-inflammatory properties which may help manage depression, cancer and even slow the aging process.
Most people are Omega-3 deficient, which is why it is so important to supplement your diet with them. The main flax seed oil benefits lie in its ALA fatty acid content. However, in order to be optimally effective ALA must be converted to long-chain Omega-3 fats in the body, and many people, especially the elderly, do not have efficient internal mechanisms to achieve this.
What is a better source of Omega-3 Fatty Acids?
Recent studies have shown that fish oil may be a better source for the Omega-3 fatty acids that your body needs. Fish oil, harvested from cold water fish, contains the fatty acids DHA and EPA. Research points to the fact that DHA and EPA have more therapeutic value than ALA found in flax seed oil. Also, DHA and EPA do not have to be converted, as they are already long-chain Omega-3 fats and are easily absorbed in the body.
So the Omega-3 fatty acids in fish oil are better for your health than those found in flax seed oil, because they are more easily utilized by your body and are more powerful and therapeutic. You can increase flax seed oil benefits by substituting or adding fish oil to your diet.
How Can You Find A High Quality Fish Oil Product?
Only fish oils contain the special benefits of DHA and EPA Omega-3 fatty acids. So it's important that you find a high quality fish oil product so you can get the maximum health benefits.
Some things to keep in mind:
1) Natural fish oils are oftentimes contaminated with heavy metals such as mercury.
2) Most fish oil in capsule form does not come from the country where it is harvested, meaning there are often additives to make sure it stays fresh through all the extra handling and processing.
3) Many fish oils contain low levels of DHA, which is the most important component.
Therefore, you need to find a pure fish oil product that does not have any of the drawbacks mentioned above.
03-26-2005 06:59 PM
This seems like good stuff here...
Artic Cod Liver Oil
Haven't tried them yet myself, but I much prefer liquids (flax, fish oil, whatever) to gels/gelcaps, mostly due to the fact that you can get so much more for your money; plus, you can be more exacting with how much you want and how many servings per day, etc.
05-03-2005 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by biggjohn
3g of EPA/DHA or 3g of Fish oil (my bottle has 1g capsules that contain 180mg epa and 120mg dha)?
05-07-2005 12:25 PM
Is there any truth to the reported estrogen blocking properties of flax oil? If so, by what mechanism does this occur?
05-07-2005 12:31 PM
The inhibitory effect of flaxseed on the growth and metastasisof estrogen receptor negative human breast cancer xenograftsis attributed to both its lignan and oil components.
Wang L, Chen J, Thompson LU.
Department of Nutritional Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto, Toronto, ON, Canada.
Our previous studies have shown that dietary flaxseed (FS) can reduce the growth and metastasis of human estrogen receptor negative (ER-) breast cancer in nude mice. The aims of our study were to determine (i) whether the tumor inhibitory effect of FS was due to its oil (FO), lignan secoisolariciresinol diglycoside (SDG), or both components, and (ii) whether the effect on tumor growth was related to increased lipid peroxidation. Athymic nude mice were orthotopically injected with ER- breast cancer cells (MDA-MB-435) and 8 weeks later were fed either the basal diet (BD) or BD supplemented with 10% FS, SDG, FO, or combined SDG and FO (SDG + FO) for 6 weeks. The SDG and FO levels were equivalent to the amounts in the 10% FS. Compared to the BD group, the tumor growth rate was significantly lower (p < 0.05) in the FS, FO, and SDG + FO groups, in concordance with decreased cell proliferation and increased apoptosis; however, these did not significantly relate to the lipid peroxidation, indexed as malonaldehyde (MDA), in the primary tumors. Lung metastasis incidence was reduced (16-70%) by all treatments, significantly in the FS and SDG + FO groups. The distant lymph node metastasis was significantly decreased (52%) only in the FO group. Although the total metastasis incidence was lowered (42%) significantly only in the SDG + FO group, all treatment groups did not differ significantly. In conclusion, FS reduced the growth and metastasis of established ER- human breast cancer in part due to its lignan and FO components, and not to lipid peroxidation. (c) 2005 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
Dietary flaxseed enhances the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on the growth of estrogen-dependent human breast cancer (mcf-7) in nude mice.
Chen J, Hui E, Ip T, Thompson LU.
Department of Nutritional Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada.
PURPOSE: This study determined the effect of 10% dietary flaxseed (FS) and tamoxifen (TAM), alone and in combination, on the growth of estrogen-dependent human breast cancer (MCF-7) in athymic mice with or without 17beta-estradiol (E2) supplementation. EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN: Ovariectomized mice received injection with MCF-7 cells, were implanted with an E2 pellet (1.7 mg), and fed the basal diet (BD). When tumor reached approximately 40 mm2, the E2 implant was removed, and mice were randomized to the following groups and maintained at either low (E2 pellet removed) or high E2 level (new E2 pellet implanted) for 6 weeks: (a) positive control with new E2 pellet, fed BD, (b) negative control with no E2 implant, fed BD, (c) TAM group with TAM pellet (5 mg) implant, fed BD, (d) FS group fed 10% FS, (e) FS+TAM group with TAM implant, fed 10% FS. Tumor growth was monitored weekly. RESULTS: At low E2 level, FS regressed the pretreatment tumor size by 74%. TAM regressed tumor initially but later induced an increase so that the tumor size was finally similar to the pretreatment size. A tumor regression >53% was induced by FS+TAM than by TAM alone. At high E2 level, FS, TAM, and FS+TAM inhibited the tumor growth by 22, 41, and 50%, respectively, compared with the positive control. Decreased tumor size was attributable to reduced tumor cell proliferation and increased apoptosis. CONCLUSIONS: FS inhibited the growth of human estrogen-dependent breast cancer and strengthened the tumor-inhibitory effect of TAM at both low and high E2 levels.
Lignans and tamoxifen, alone or in combination, reduce human breast cancer cell adhesion, invasion and migration in vitro.
Chen J, Thompson LU.
Department of Nutritional Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ont., Canada.
Flaxseed has been shown to reduce the metastasis of estrogen receptor negative (ER-) human breast cancer in nude mice. This study determined whether enterodiol (ED) and enterolactone (EL), metabolites of plant lignans exceptionally rich in flaxseed, and tamoxifen (TAM), alone or in combination, can influence the various steps of metastasis, that is, breast cancer cell adhesion, invasion and migration, of two ER- human breast cancer cell lines, MDA-MB-435 and MDA-MB-231. The inhibition by ED, EL or TAM (1-5 microM) of cell adhesion to Matrigel or extracellular matrices, fibronectin, laminin, and type IV collagen, as well as cell invasion was dose dependent in both cell lines. When ED, EL and TAM were combined at 1 microM, a greater inhibitory effect on cell adhesion and invasion was observed than with either compound alone. ED and EL at doses of 0.1-10 microM reduced cell migration, but TAM had no effect at 0.1 and 1 microM, and exhibited a stimulatory effect at 10 microM. It is concluded that lignans and TAM, alone or in combination, can inhibit the steps involved in the metastasis cascade. Although more investigations are required, the study also suggests that the intake of the lignan-rich flaxseed may not antagonize the effect of TAM in ER- breast cancer cells.
05-08-2005 08:32 AM
Thanks for the info. Did these studies come from PubMed?
05-08-2005 09:22 AM
Yes, my search words were flaxseed, lignan, estrogen, tamoxifen, etc.
Originally Posted by Redeemer
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