Cissus vs Celadrin
- 02-01-2006, 03:27 PM
- 02-01-2006, 04:58 PM
They both really good but I have to say for fast relief of aching, dry joints..Celadrin wins hands down. It really seems to lubricate joints very quickly..for me at least.
Cissus will numb the pain quickly, but the healing process takes longer. Cissus has additional benefits if taken over the long run.
You could always run them both if you're really banged up.
- 02-01-2006, 04:59 PM
In my own experience...
joints = celadrin
tendons = cissus
Make sure however that you know exactly what is affecting you. Pain can be masked in many ways.
As of late I've been using San Bone Boost w/ NOW Celedrin & MSM, but I still also support Matt with Omega Flex as well.
Although Cissus RX looks solid, I have yet to try and I am admittedly turned off by tha whole PowerFULL sample thread.
02-01-2006, 10:25 PM
As Toad said it really depends on your ailments. I take it you've tried glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM with little effect. I liek running Celadrin for 2 months then switching to Cissus as each seems to lose some effect after a few months.
02-02-2006, 01:44 AM
I know Cissus helped me with shoulder pain lower back pain @ 6 caps daily for what it's worth
02-02-2006, 03:39 PM
Nice, might definitely be worth a try seeing that celadrin might have lost it's effect on me. Could have also been the lowered dose of Omega flex (3 caps) and then switching to NOW brand with MSM. Might try switching back to Omega at the rec'd dose.Originally Posted by ersatz
02-02-2006, 07:02 PM
What seems to be an effective dose of celadrin? I've yet to try the product out, but due to ongoing joint issues, I'm looking for a further addition on top of the cissus that I already use.
02-02-2006, 08:18 PM
Anywhere between a gram or two depending on your indivdual needs.Originally Posted by max silver
02-03-2006, 12:46 AM
I use CNW's celadrin powder at 1.5 to 2 grams per day when I'm creaky.
02-03-2006, 01:07 PM
Yeh celadrin is good. I have terrible knees and it helps a LOT. Haven't tried Cissus, but there is also something else that's great for joints, it's called devil's claw root, it comes either in caps (NOW makes it) or in liquid (kalyx has that one). It's been a staple in my joint support stack, and celadrin is a close second. BTW, glucosamine does next to nothing for me, whereas chondroitin helps a LOT. bioman, I've heard that CG does help joints and flexibility a lot. Do you find it is so?
02-03-2006, 01:27 PM
If colloidal gold does help joints, I'm not noticing it although I'm not really having any problems in that area. My back is messed up but it's more of an alignment problem.
02-03-2006, 01:28 PM
As long as your head is on straight...
02-03-2006, 02:54 PM
I can't promise that, lol, but I do feel better.
02-03-2006, 07:56 PM
Celadrin def is the way to go for direct joint pain, I use it when aches flares up. One thing that really helped me when it was bad was drastically increasing my water intake. A few months ago I started making sure to get an additional 1/2 to 3/4 a gallon a day and it made a huge difference for my joints. Creatine, NO products, and not to mention loads of food really draw moisture from your body, so sometimes you need much more water than you think.
02-04-2006, 03:43 PM
Grunt, Bioman, or anyone else who knows a bit about Celadrin...is it simply to numb the pain and lubricate the joints or does it help to heal as well? Is cissus the only option for that? I am skeptical as to the healing power of it as I have heard many reports of the pain returning after use has ended.
02-04-2006, 04:47 PM
After fairly thorough research on the question, here is my conclusion: Cartilage repair is something you have to work at all the time. Why? Because if you were able to wear it down in the first place, it means you probably will, again ... and again. Unless you stop lifting or something.
With that in mind, it must be made perfectly, absolutely clear that a damaged joint, no matter if the damage is to the cartilage, ligaments or tendons, simply WILL NOT REGENERATE while it is inflamed. Period. No workarounds, this is an absolute.
So if you have inflamation, it won't matter if you're ingesting tons of chondroitin or glucosamine, which are basic material for the reconstruction of cartilage. They'll just get eliminated. This explains both the popularity of glucosamine and its lack of effectiveness at rectifying anything but the lesser kinds of joint problems. It's not that it doesn't work. It's that the inflamation must first be killed.
Now most of you guys might know this already, but antiinflamatories are generally slightly anti-anabolic. Sad but true. No matter, they must be used anyways if you're going to get any repair done. Inflamation can take many days to disappear even when the joint isn't put under load or stress. A regular lifter doesn't have the luxury of squatting once a month.
I will repeat this again. Devil's claw root is extremely good at killing inflamation in joints. Medline has research on that and it is conclusive. It is also side-effect-free, except perhaps some slight anti-anabolic properties which cannot be avoided by using any antiinflamatories. I am not well versed in Cissus, but if it is antiinflamatory, then it is highly unlikely that it doesn't inhibit cyclooxygenases, and that right there is antianabolic. One vector of anabolism and inflamation are joined at the hip. They are in many ways the same process. Curcumin is also said to possess good antiinflamatory properties, but I do believe that long term treatment does pose some problems. There was a discussion of that a few months back and possibly if you run a search for curcumin and inflamatory you'll find it.
Once you get the inflamation out of the way, chondroitin and glucosamine can be put to work. Not before. Adding MSM and celadrin does help lubricate the joints nicely. Personally, I can do without MSM, it doesn't seem to do anything at all for me. Celadrin, OTOH, has become a staple of my joint support stack. It is good. Having lubricants is extremely important because this limits damage and inflamation when the joint is put under load or stress, making the next round of repairs that much easier.
I would like to know how Cissus works, but I do believe that even USP Labs don't exactly know for sure... Until then, the killer joint stack would be: devil's claw, chondroitin sulfate, glucosamine sulfate, celadrin, MSM and of course Cissus, although it isn't easy to know at this point what Cissus actually repairs because it does also have true analgesic properties which can easily mask a damage that is still there. This is an important thing to remember.
Last edited by Grunt76; 02-04-2006 at 05:09 PM.
02-04-2006, 04:58 PM
You are the MAN!
Thank you for that description, its something that one often doesnt consider when trying to get the joints back to normal. Thank you!
One more question for you...I am looking into a Celadrin transdermal if I can manage it. I have so much capping to do with all the bulk powders I have, I really don't want to cook up a home-made dermal, do you think using a product like T-Gel would be a good transport for the celadrin? The NOW brand looks decent, but the transport looks more like a lotion, rather than a truly effective penetrating substance.
Thanks Again Bro!
02-04-2006, 05:06 PM
I have no clue man. Sorry. Anything containing DMSO would surely be best. It isn't the most fun or safest thing to use, but it is said to let just about anything through the skin.
02-04-2006, 05:07 PM
Nice writeup Grunt. If I may add the Celadrin products also usually contain menthol which contains analgesic properties as well and helps with temporary pain. The Celadrin lotion actually works quite well by Now. I like to use it on my knee prior to squats and I can definitely tell a big difference. It could be just the menthol masking the pain but I do also notice better joint movement long term. Havent tried Cissus yet, but have some on the way.
02-04-2006, 05:07 PM
No problem at all bro. I will check with Bow on the T-Gel, he is the man with the recipie for the homemade joint dermal. Once again, thanks bro.Originally Posted by Grunt76
02-04-2006, 05:09 PM
I like NOW, and I wasn't trying to dump on the product, its just that the carrier seems weak, but I've never used it, so I can't be sure.Originally Posted by stri8ted_planet
02-04-2006, 05:11 PM
Thanks stri8ted_planet. NOW also has devil's claw root. No online bodybuilding store that I know of keeps it because it isn't known. You just COULD be the first ...Originally Posted by stri8ted_planet
02-04-2006, 05:26 PM
I can pick up a few bottles on the next order!
02-04-2006, 05:33 PM
Finally now people will actually try it and know how GOOD it is! I've been talking about if for a while around here... THANKS!
02-04-2006, 05:37 PM
Very cool! Welcome Aboard By the Way!Originally Posted by stri8ted_planet
02-05-2006, 01:42 PM
02-09-2006, 08:03 PM
02-09-2006, 08:17 PM
I had my wife try it for her UC. It did not seem effective for that purpose (few things are), however there's tons of research on devil's claw showing it to be quite useful for anti inflammatory and immunomodulatory purposes.
02-09-2006, 09:31 PM
What is UC?Originally Posted by bioman
stri8ted_planet now you've made me a sure-shot customer of yours.
02-09-2006, 10:58 PM
02-10-2006, 12:21 AM
UC = ulcerative collitis.
02-10-2006, 01:26 AM
i have a rotator cuff and shoulder problem that has bothered me for almost 2 years and ive tried everything (well other than that devil's claw root ), but ill tell u one thing cissus has finally helped me get past the pain. I mean honestly it cant be placebo - i give full credit to the fact that i can finally do chest/shoulder exercises without feeling any discomfort because of cissus
my 2 cents- - -> RZO
02-10-2006, 03:09 AM
Not tried celadrin, cissu worked a treat for my shoulders. Also used it succesfully for a groin strain recently. Good stuff.
02-10-2006, 08:46 AM
Grunt, trying to figure out what you were referring to with the curcumin. I performed a few searches to no avail. I have never heard of any long term issues with curcumin....Originally Posted by Grunt76
02-10-2006, 09:19 AM
Sorry to hear that. Silver and Gold would help more than devil's claw root.Originally Posted by bioman
02-10-2006, 01:00 PM
She's fine at the moment. She's in remission and on sulfasalazine which seems to work pretty well.
We're trying to concieve right now so I'm leary of using either CS/CG for her. She did run a short cycle of CS and it did help her recover from a cold faster but since the UC is in remission, it was hard to see if it had an positive effect. CG put her in a terrible mood, but I think I have pinned down her main problem to hyperthyroidism.
As for Cissus..it's kind of long term supplement. I find it takes a few days of constant use to fully alleviate pain and restore some flexibility and that I need to take it consistently to fully appreciate it's effects.
Celadrin on the other hand seems to restore joint fluidity very quickly and I only take it when I'm feeling creeky and sore. Buy it bulk from CNW..it's a screamin deal.
02-10-2006, 01:10 PM
Didn't know CNW had that stuff in bulk, thanks a LOT man, great info.
02-10-2006, 06:21 PM
How do you take the celadrin from CNW because I have some and it is real lumpy, and is a 1/2 tsp. or 1 tsp the recommended dosage because it does not say on the bottol, but my glucosamine says 1/2 tsp. is 2grams.
02-10-2006, 10:42 PM
What's a good dose for devils claw? The recommended dose is usually underdosed in my experiences.
02-11-2006, 10:30 AM
Yeah, it kinda is, depending what form you're using. I found my dose by taking a bunch of caps and seeing how my knees feel. Almost all extracts have differing potency, so it's impossible to say "take this number of caps". It has no side-effects that I know of, and I have taken large amounts before, to no ill effect, but good ones, yes.Originally Posted by ersatz
Dosage also depends on wether you take it every day or not...
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