YJ a reason to use glutamine...?

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  1. YJ neednt post the studies twice for me... He changed my opinion.


  2. Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
    YJ neednt post the studies twice for me... He changed my opinion.
    He also convinced me too bro, I haven't noticed a difference in my workouts w/out glutamine. You can use that $$ on your diet or goodies etc.
    •   
       


  3. Glutamine is not a performance enhancer. The only difference you notice is a shortened recuperation time. You will see a difference in recovery, but only if your workouts are intense enough. If you are lifting heavy, glutamine is damn cheap insurance against muscle tears and soft tissue injuries.

  4. Hehe, uh oh, here we go again.

    I can see how it "may" help in recup if you're really damaging the tissue enough, but I still don't see it helping in the extremes as those studies regarding trauma patients.

    I guess in the end if you have the cash and you feel it helps you then go for it... if not save your cash for some liver tabs...Ow Ow!

  5. Originally posted by John Benz
    Glutamine is not a performance enhancer. The only difference you notice is a shortened recuperation time. You will see a difference in recovery, but only if your workouts are intense enough. If you are lifting heavy, glutamine is damn cheap insurance against muscle tears and soft tissue injuries.
    I notice a huge shortening of recuperation with about 44 grams of protein and a few liver tabs.


    In the final stages of my glutamine research, I notice that reputable brothers say, if you are going to use glutamine, post workout doses of 3-5 grams are ideal and anything after that will be secreted. So ok, 3-5 grams, that not much at all, and that would make a 300 grams tub of glutamine last a fairly long time. I think thats a fair assumption. But..... in 1 scoop of Optimum's 100% whey, you're getting 2 grams of glutamine, using two scoops like most do, you're getting 4 grams of glutamine post workout. Granted some protein powders have more glutamine, some less, but the point is, this is even more evidence as to why no one should be buying extra glutamine on the side. You just dont need it.

    In a thread with Lovetoeat, who is an avid glutamine user, actually defended my stance and I sort of defended his. My goal isnt to turn everyone off to glutamine, if you use it, and placebo or not you get results and are happy and can afford it, then by all means, ignore this data and do your thing, more power to you. Im simply disspelling rumors of supplement companies that promise all this bull**** with glutamine. And hopefully steering some newbies away from using it and using this as a means of justification to those who have wasted money on glutamine and wondered why it hurts when they sit down

    The guys above said it best, save your money and buy some chicken breasts, salmon fillets, protein powder and liver tabs.

  6. YJ, what about glutamine and creatine competing for absorption? That's a bunch of crap, no?

  7. Originally posted by bachovas
    YJ, what about glutamine and creatine competing for absorption? That's a bunch of crap, no?
    Both function on the Ca2+ ion. Some say yes, some say no, but no one can ever back it up with any science. I have a study somewhere, that shows how its possible they can compete for absorbtion, but unlikely if taken with low glycemic carbohydrates, as they both often are. Although this is 1 study, and only 1 study, Im still not 100% sure of it. I have not found any significant studies/articles (other than by a supplement company) thats says not to mix them. People have always dumped 5-10 grams of creatine in their protein shake and have had good results with it. If you wanted to be on the safe side, have your creatine in some grape juice post workout, and then 20 minutes later have your protein shake and I'll continue to look.

  8. Originally posted by YellowJacket



    In a thread with Lovetoeat, who is an avid glutamine user, actually defended my stance and I sort of defended his.
    A few months ago I switched to the BCAA/glutamine combo from protein customizer and I really like it. I am taking 20-30 grams a day though so it isn't cheap.

  9. While you can make some general conclusion that the protein supp you take is supplying enough glutamine, every one's body reacts slightly differently. Just give glutamine a try. It may or may not be of use to you. Decide for yourself and GET THE HELL ON WITH YOUR LIVES instead of arguing over some petty little **** like this!!

  10. Originally posted by BioHazzard
    While you can make some general conclusion that the protein supp you take is supplying enough glutamine, every one's body reacts slightly differently. Just give glutamine a try. It may or may not be of use to you. Decide for yourself and GET THE HELL ON WITH YOUR LIVES instead of arguing over some petty little **** like this!!
    It reacts differently from person to person? Wow, thats a new concept, please, explain that one, preferably with some date or journal citations to back up your point or conclusion. Glutamine's effectiveness does not vary from person to person. Its a hit or miss concept because its a natural amino acid, it is know its source of action and its physiologically mechanics within the body, so there is no mystery as to how it functions.

    On a side note, this is a debate, not an arguement, and you have brought nothing to it but false claims and opinion. Good day.
    •   
       


  11. Not referring to the effectivenss of g per se. Rather, I was talking about effect of the amount of glutamin intake. What may be a sufficient amount for you, may be too much or not enough for another person.

  12. Originally posted by BioHazzard
    Not referring to the effectivenss of g per se. Rather, I was talking about effect of the amount of glutamin intake. What may be a sufficient amount for you, may be too much or not enough for another person.
    Oh, intake amount doesnt matter too much, 20 grams is useless, 70 grams is useless, etc.
  13. Thumbs up


    Originally posted by BioHazzard
    Not referring to the effectivenss of g per se. Rather, I was talking about effect of the amount of glutamin intake. What may be a sufficient amount for you, may be too much or not enough for another person.
    BioHazzard, you are correct. Some people need 70 gms, while others benefit from amounts as low as 20.

    There are a lot of anti-Glutamine studies being posted, but until I see one that has anything to do with the effectiveness of Glutamine on a serious bodybuilder, they can all be disregarded entirely.

    Remember, pubmed studies are useful in reinforcing real world results, but worthless as last week's lunch, on a stand alone basis, or when used to contradict experience or first-hand knowledge. Glutamine works in preserving muscle and more important, is imperative in preventing soft tissue injuries. You see no performance gains, like with creatine, and it is thus dismissed by skeptics.

    You can't dismiss the most knowledgeable men in the business, like Charles Poliquin and Eric Serrano, who claim dramatic first-hand results with glutamine. Sheeeeeeze, give me a break. The only bodybuilders who ever criticize the effectiveness of glutamine are the teens who play "follow-the-leader" on a message board. I have yet to meet a serious weight trainer who does not use glutamine. Except for Bobo.
    Last edited by John Benz; 04-09-2003 at 12:04 AM.

  14. Originally posted by John Benz

    . The only bodybuilders who ever criticize the effectiveness of glutamine are the teens who play "follow-the-leader" on a message board. 
    OUCH!!! lol Thats gotta hurt

    Peace

    Bone

  15. Originally posted by Bone


    OUCH!!! lol Thats gotta hurt

    Peace

    Bone
    Not really, personal insults on mean there's a lack of information to be presented so thats the last resort, I used to see it a lot at bodybuilding.com

  16. Originally posted by YellowJacket

    Not really, personal insults on mean there's a lack of information to be presented so thats the last resort, I used to see it a lot at bodybuilding.com

    I've seen alot of things on BB.com too.  UHHhuuh alot of things knowhatimsayin??

    Peace

    Bone

  17. Originally posted by Bone



    I've seen alot of things on BB.com too.  UHHhuuh alot of things knowhatimsayin??

    Peace

    Bone

    Great, so have I, but this isnt bodybuilding.com, although the transition seems to be inevitable.

  18. Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Im assuming this is determined by trail and error? 70 grams of glutamine a day isnt practical, lets hope those who use it, do not need 70 grams.
    Whatever works is practical. Glutamine is cheap insurance.
    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Not exactly. This would also apply to any study pro-glutamine also, correct? But those studies that are pro-glutamine on weight training athletes or athletes period, do not exist. The only studies that exist showing the effects or lack there of on athletes are all disproving the glutamine myths. I have posted studies on resistance training males, weightlifting males, etc. See this thread for those. The abstracts you posted were on rats, disctance training athletes (runners), and healthy subjects who were not subjected to any training at all.
    You showed NO studies on weight lifters or bobybuilders of any kind. Your studies were similar on rats, aids patients etc. No myths were disproven. Just a lot of drivel posted. It's that simple.
    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    I beg to differ. They do very well on a stand alone basis and also a great job as a complement to real world experience. I have used glutamine, didnt do a thing for me, fine. So I did some studying and now I know why. If I would have had these studies before, I would have saved some time and some money.
    You are in a tiny minority. If you were lifting and training hard, you would see a difference.
    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Actually, this isnt opinion, see the studies above. The only opinion I have thrown in is the fact is didnt work for me, fine that doesnt mean it doesnt work for everyone, it seems your whole argument is based around opinion. And you keep calling these studies flawed, which is obviously a scapegoat, you have yet to prove how they are flawed. Irrelevant? To who? Certainly not anyone with any sense.
    If studies fly against real world experience of thousands of bodybuilders, go with the experience. It's far more valid. And please don't use the worn out cop-out, placebo-effect.
    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Most knowledgable? I have never even heard of these guys. I guess they fact they write for T-Mag and support glutamine makes them the most knowledgeable. I'll take a dozen or so journal studies done on several hundred people as opposed to a couple guys opinions who get paid to advertise various products, most anyone would I would assume.
    These guys are not paid to endorse Glutamine. Not everyone who disagrees with you is on someone's payroll. It would be far more likely that those studies were bought and paid for by the medical association. We all know how they love to admit natural supplements and vitamins work. And the fact that you are ignorant of two of the most renowned and knowledgeable nutritional gurus in the bodybuilding world because they don't frequent message boards doesn't surprise me....actually it proves my point.
    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Im a bodybuilder, not a teen and I have dismissed glutamine, bodybuilding message board or not, as has many other people who arent teens, this has nothing to do with being a teen or age.
    Could you post some current stats, please? You had posted some in chat, and I remember you said you were bigger than Layne, but I forget your exact size. Just curious.

  19. Originally posted by John Benz
     

    Could you post some current stats, please? You had posted some in chat, and I remember you said you were bigger than Layne, but I forget your exact size. Just curious.
    I'm curious in this also. Please post them

    Peace

    Bone

  20. Originally posted by John Benz

    Whatever works is practical. Glutamine is cheap insurance.
    Ok, Im fine with that, but how does one know when he's reached the right amount? You have said and I agree that there is no energy boost, enhanced athletic performance, etc. So I guess you increase it until you're no longer sore? Not practical at all.

    You showed NO studies on weight lifters or bobybuilders of any kind. Your studies were similar on rats, aids patients etc. No myths were disproven. Just a lot of drivel posted. It's that simple.
    I posted no studies on rats or aids patients. You have to be kiding. The only pro glutamine studies are done on AIDS patients. And yes, my studies certainly apply here. Weight training athletes? Thats not a weight lifter? Resistance training? That would hint at weight lifting also, so these more than apply to this debate.

    You are in a tiny minority. If you were lifting and training hard, you would see a difference. You can be found somewhere on a message board 16 hours a day. When do you actually train?
    Actually Im online 24 hours a day, I have a cable modem, but please, this debate is about glutamine not my personal life.

    If studies fly against real world experience of thousands of bodybuilders, go with the experience. It's far more valid. And please don't use the worn out cop-out, placebo-effect.
    How is placebo worn out? It cant be. But Ok, I wont touch placebo on this one. Can you get all of those men & women to post here? Can you say thousands and assume thats a practical number? Nope, that doesnt validate anything, too many variables.

    These guys are not paid to endorse Glutamine. Not everyone who disagrees with you is on someone's payroll. It would be far more likely that those studies were bought and paid for by the medical association. We all know how they love to admit natural supplements and vitamins work. And the fact that you are ignorant of two of the most renowned and knowledgeable nutritional gurus in the bodybuilding world because they don't frequent message boards doesn't surprise me....actually it proves my point. Wasn't that long ago you didn't know who Will Brink was either.
    Once again, this has nothing to do with me, this is abut glutamine. Please stay on topic. Supplement guru's dont mean much to me, I dont follow them and I certainly do not believe every word they believe, I prefer to do my own research and reading and draw my own conclusions. The mainstream bull**** and hype is all played out, its hard to decide who's to trust and who isnt, but once again, this has nothing to do with glutamine.

    Could you post some current stats, please? You had posted some in chat, and I remember you said you were bigger than Layne, but I forget your exact size. Just curious.
    Yet again, nothing to do with this debate, my personal life doesnt fit into this equation.

  21. Originally posted by YellowJacket

    Not really, personal insults on mean there's a lack of information to be presented so thats the last resort, I used to see it a lot at bodybuilding.com
    So glad John is the only mod who resorts to personal attacks here when the discussion is about facts.

  22. Originally posted by RJJ


    So glad John is the only mod who resorts to personal attacks here when the discussion is about facts.
    Care to elaborate? What other mod resorts to personal attacks on here? If you were referring to YJ, he isn't a mod here.

  23. come on weave, you know how confrontational and venemous you get!




    (not )

  24. Originally posted by Biggin
    come on weave, you know how confrontational and venemous you get!




    (not )
    lol, I know man, I'm the crazy one...weave's on a rampage watchout!

     

    ....Of course then I have to explain the circumstances around my rampage, make sure the other party understands, explain my position in a nonconfrontational manner, come to a common ground and agree to disagee.......but wacthout, really I get nasty!

  25. ... all I know is once Weave gets you in his "rage cage" look the **** out! ... you'll get an *extra* firm handshake after amicably reaching a middle ground... ya dirty snake-in-the-grass!

  26. Originally posted by Biggin
    ... all I know is once Weave gets you in his "rage cage" look the **** out! ... you'll get an *extra* firm handshake after amicably reaching a middle ground... ya dirty snake-in-the-grass!
    An extra-firm handshake from a 268 lb titan could do considerable bone-crushing damage. Ouch!

  27. Originally posted by jweave23


    Care to elaborate? What other mod resorts to personal attacks on here? If you were referring to YJ, he isn't a mod here.
    WOW I did not realize that. How things change.

    Thanks for the info.
  

  
 

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