Bulk Ma Huang powder (Ephedra sinica)
- 01-15-2006, 10:40 AM
Bulk Ma Huang powder (Ephedra sinica)
Ive placed an order for some Ephedra sinica (mahuang) powder but the company doesn't seem to know the amount of ephedrine alkoid content. The plan is to make my own ECA stack and cap it.
Unlike the old ECA stacks which say they used ephedra extracts, I either have to extract it from the powder or use in larger amounts but unsure how much exactly or if its any different from the old ECA ephedra used. Question is - does anyone have any information on extracting or ideas on amounts to use? Is 300mg a good dose to start at? I havent found much on a google search
- 01-15-2006, 10:53 AM
I suggest you get some lab report on the content before dosing
- 01-15-2006, 11:02 AM
I would follow B5150s advise on the lab report. Overdosing would be extremely dangerous. Good luck.
Assuming you have the unconcentrated dry herb:
E. sinica has a total alkaloid content of 1-3% by dry weight where ephedrine constitutes 40-90% of the alkaloid content. The remaining alkaloids consist of pseudoephedrine and the various demethylated forms of each.
So, good luck in trying to standardize it yourself.
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Thanks for the responses guys! Haven't been able to get a lab report yet but i've emailed my supplier, just waiting for a reply.
Aeternitatis - it is unconcentrated herb, so it seems like I'm gonna have to get a 'feel' for the amount and play around with the doses... from what you said 800mg of the Ephedra powder seems a sensible dose to start off with - please advise tho please.
Something tells me I'm gonna be as jittery as an old washing machine self experimenting like this
I'ma ll with Mike's recommendation. Ephedrine is only like $7-8 at 25 mg per tab and you don't have to worry about the potency of each pill.
I realise MaHuang is back on the market already capped but the prices are still quite steep compaired to pre-ban and the doses are regulated to smaller amounts of ephedrine, this being the reason I want to make my own caps.
I know of people using Pseudoephedrine HCL (the 25mg tabs you're referring to) in the ECA stack instead but with it being an isomer of ephedrine (synthetic too) I get the impression it does not have nearly the same effect on the CNS that we all had with the old ECA caps. What are everyones views on this?
Something on Mahuang:
"Ma huang stimulates the nervous system to enhance mood and reduce fatigue. Ma huang also has the ability to increase energy and endurance; it does this through increase of blood flow to the muscles, resulting in an increase of oxygen and nutrient supply to the muscles. Ephedrine also increases basal metabolic rate (BMR), so that the body is spurred to burn calories faster, and so ephedrine is part of the thermogenic process that can result in substantial weight loss"
For anybody interested I finally found a proceedure to extract the alkaloids from the powder, seems like a ball-ache tho:
The ephedrine and pseudoephedrine alkaloids can be removed from Ephedra extract or Ma Huang with up to 96 percent efficiency.
Grinding the plant material into a fine powder and washing three times with methanol-at a ratio of 425 grams of plant material to 200 milliliters of solvent per "wash"-will yield 1 to 2 percent ephedrine and pseudoephedrine combined. The methanol washings can be collected and allowed to evaporate, leaving a greenish-brown, tar-like substance.
Removing ephedrine or pseudoephedrine from extract tablets is a similar but one-step process with a greater yield of ephedrine or pseudoephedrine. Ephedrine tablets normally contain 25 milligrams of ephedrine. One thousand ephedrine extract tablets weigh approximately 457 grams and require 350 milliliters of solvent for extraction, yielding approximately 5 percent ephedrine. By comparison, pseudoephedrine tablets normally contain 60 milligrams of pseudoephedrine. One thousand pseudoephedrine tablets weigh approximately 119 grams and also require 350 milliliters of solvent, but the extraction process yields approximately 50 percent pseudoephedrine, by weight, because of the greater percentage of pseudoephedrine in the tablets.
I don't feel comfortble with using Methanol in any extraction I'm gonna take orally.
You can buy ephedra in caps, 10mg now. I don't think I'm allowed to post a link
hey, jb22, are you still around? i bought some powdered mu haung, ephedra sinica and wanted to know the best way to take the stuff!! i ordered a pill machine to make pills, but i dont know if that would be the best, make tea or whatever. also, i cant find anywhere the correct dosages to take or use to make tea. HELP!!
Where'd you order it from?
I don't know why you'd bother with doing all that. It seems like it'd be easier to just but something that is already capped/measured. There's a gas station right by my house that actually sells Bronch-eze...
i got the powdered ephedra from herbalfire.com however it came with a catalog from bouncingbearbotanicals.com. i dont know if they are the same company, looks like bouncing bear wholesales, and maybe they drop shipped it to me.
i did find boucing bear mentioned at a pretty good website on ephedra, ephedra.nu. there is a ton of info there.
i have tried the bronch-eze stuff. doesnt really work, and doesnt raise my body temp like the old stuff. i have to take like 10 tabs of the stuff just to tell anything, and thats not much. somethign about the ephedra is synthetic or something, and cant use a certain part of the plant??
- 5'10" 205 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
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mountainroseherbs also sells bulk cheap
Man how much you payin for that? I just got some at a pharm. With no doze for less then 25 bucks and its 60 doses of E-hci at 25mg.4 less $ then a fatburner! First dose was today it was all right but liked venom hyperdrive better.
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I know of an ECA that has 25mg of the Ma Huang extract per serving, with 300mg of caff and white willow bark, but its not carried on nutraplanet so I can't say what it is because I will probably get in trouble for it.
Has anyone found anything equivalent to ephedra? I was 400 pounds until I start using ephedra. From there, I went to a lean 203 and well fit! However, right at my lowest point, they pulled it and been having problems finding something to the effects of the ephedra. Now I am back to 340 and still searching for the perfect supplement that does the same thing..Any suggestions?
Best way to "standardize" it for yourself is to make a tea.
put 1 tsp into something that will restrain it. put THAT into 8 oz of boiling water (don't keep boiling it). Mash the powder to make sure the water's soaked it. Let steep for 20 minutes, then drink 2 oz. 2 hours later, drink 2 oz. 2 hours later, then 2 hours after that, 2 oz..
If you get NO effects, skip a couple days, then do it again - but 2 tsp & let it steep 30 min. Dose as before. If you don't get ANYTHING off of it by this point, go through the process once more, only this time, use 3 tsp, and steep it covered for an hour. Drink ONE ounce, and twice more at hour intervals.
If you STILL can't detect any effects, you may have bunk stuff. You really should have gotten some effect by now, and should have some sense of how strong the 3 doses are, cumulative effects, etc. & you can tailor your dose from there, either as tea, as a fraction of a tsp - hell, mix it w/ beef suet & make suppositories....
When someone finds out the proper dosing, etc for the bulk stuff, please post. I'm gonna put my order in today!! I miss the good ol days of ephedra based fat burners.
- 5'10" 205 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
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its been a few years since the ban. i too used it to trim down. i could drop 50lbs in just a couple months with its help. seemed like a miracle pill to me, really no different than ad50 or some of the other juice stacks - some want to loose, some want to gain, some want both.
somewhere somebody has to know how to get the same product from the plant without much trouble. i ordered the powder, and got one of the little capsule machines off ebay. i made some capsules today, im going to start with about 4 size 00 capsules tomorrow and see if it has any effect at all. if not, ill keep tweaking it until i figure out something.
i tried boiling it already. i probably didnt boil it long enough, actually just brought 1 cup of water and 2 tbl spoons to boil for less than 5 min or so, then let it cool strained it, ended up with about half a cup after i let some steam away and didnt completely strain the powder, etc. - just rushed it really. it didnt do anything at all. i might try this again and pay more exact attention to times and all using bodywizards method.
- 5'10" 205 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Rep Power
yeah i know what you mean, have you tried caralluma fimbrata? its the best thing i've found appetite suppression wise, and not a stim like ephedra. Sold as Dec C20 in walgreens, some other names too
also too, maybe you tried to loose it too fast? 140lbs should be a 2.5-3 year plan with slowly lowered calories over that time
- a late reply but I hope it helps answer some questions
Finally I got back to you on this - apologies for the delay! Ephedra Sinica is the correct ephedra to order yes, however with a lot of wasted hours I can varify that packing the raw powder into capsules is really not worth the effort! It will take too many capsules to have the desired effect of the extract. Therefor making a brew / tea is the best option... if you can stomach the taste.
I want to make a point about the current ephedrine alkaloids people are substituting for the old-school ECA products not being anywhere near as good - period; Cough meds like ChestEz sudafed.. containing pseudoephedrine, will not generate the effect everyone would experience before Ephedrine in fatburners was banned. The reintroduction of ephedra alkaloids into weightloss supplements I thought was a marketing joke, it wasn't anywhere near comparison with ephedrine, and any fat loss would come soley from the anhydrous caffeine content.
Ephedra extracts in old ECA stacks; Ephedra is known to contain 6 bioactive alkaloids: ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, methylephedrine, methylpseudoephedrine, norephedrine, and norpseudoephedrine. These alkaloids constitute about 1 to 2.5 wt % of the plant on a dry weight basis, with ephedrine accounting for between 30and 90% of this total.
The bulk herb may be the only suitable method to chase the effects of the long forgotten ECA stack. Once you have your dose 'standardized' for your personal tolerance, then include 1-200mg of caffeine anhydrous, possibly including aspirin / white willow bark powder.
- Good advice BodyWizard! I bought a batch of E-Sinica which had absolutely useless, yet another source was mind blowing! A note for anybody trying this - the plants themselves are not standardized and each batch will contain varying amounts of alkaloids - so test each batch of herb you purchase carefully before starting.
- sugardaddy095, Geranamine may be a near equivalent to ephedra, its a sympathomimetic amine meaning it mimics norepinephrine which revs up the metabolic rate of muscle cells, increases fat mobilization and kicks up alertness. Add with caffeine.
I know bumping a really old thread.... but it is the most recent one I can find that is on subject. Anyways..... does anyone know where you can still get E-Sinica bulk powder(All the sources mentioned here are out of stock)? Or even better the extract? As far as I can tell from my research, ephedra extract is legal again but many of the U.S. suppliers are leery to sell it after the lawsuits. Overseas sources maybe?
Also does anybody have any experience with Sida cordifolia which is suppose to have a similar alkaloid profile?
Besides the sides the extraction process itself carries risks with heavy metals occuring in some Chinese extracts. I don't think there is legally enforcible quality control - or so it appears in China.
What you are doing is risky - but its your choice.
I would like to stay away from getting a lead additive in my ma huang , but I have used this before satisfactorily. I have tried ephedrine hcl and it gives me the jitters, a headache, and dries out my nose bad enough it burns even at lower doses. However, using the ma huang extract with ephedra group alkaloids , I get a large energy boost without the jitters, headache or significant nasal drying. Works for me very well. I think the key is making sure the extract contains all the alkaloids which, from my understanding, work in synergy for appetite and energy effects at much lower doses.
I have not ordered as of yet. The Plum Flower Extract looks good but I can not seem to find anywhere where it is sold to the public online. I also cannot find if it is a single alkaloid extract or group. Any suggestion? I am looking for either the whole ground root or the extract that contains all the alkaloids.
Plum Flower and the other big brand tend to sell caps ("tea pills") rather than the raw powder. It is certainly possible to find online.
Personally in this case I think its worth it long term because of the stories I keep hearing. I use a US brand of "tea pill" which is more expensive but has US quality control backing it.
Price isn't a great issue... Quality takes $. Keeping with the rules... If you could pm me with info on how to obtain the U.S. version "tea pill" I would be very much grateful. Or if for some reason you cannot disclose.... a product name and maker would be very handy.
Thank a bunch.
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