Stimulants Negative effect on Endurance?

[rocckky]

Since Stims accellerate cardio-respiratory function...couldn't they make an endurance challenge (say circuit training) MORE difficult by intensifying the response?
Thanks!

 

[motiv8er]

I think it can go both ways IMO. I love ephadra + caffiene during long/ difficult rides. If I start juiced, then I know I may need to up higher dose later. Then I recommend a little V8 due to its ingrediants and it's effects on cramping etc. Another thing to consider is what stim and what it does to the cardiocascular system. IE vasoconstricts, vasodialates whatever. Just be ready to counter that if the side seems severe. IE a good stack would be 4 gs CM, 4 gs taurine, 250 mgs caffiene, 25 mgs ephedra of some sort. Washed down with a v8 and water. And water.

And for the record, I am certain they must be more taxing on the body. Most stims pre-rev the system. But I am talking about performance baby!

 

[bioman]

Yeah there's definitely a price to be paid for the extra octane boost..your CNS will fizzle out later and the fatigue will be worse.

I have found that using very small doses of ephedra during grueling all day hikes/scrambles is the way to go. 5 mg every 3 hours or so along with some green tea or cocamine works well. Another idea is to use the ephedra with some transdermal caffiene. The TD caff is awesome and really helps to avoid the crash. I also alternate a little nicotine in for it's ability to lessen percieved effort and improve focus. Stacking with CM or other arginine product is a good idea to offset the vasoconstriction a little. Body Octane is awesome for this sort of endurance stack as is Rhodiola.

Just be prepared to be totally drained the next day and the days after. lol

There's also fine line between stimulated and over-stimulated.

 

[400runner]

i live on stimulants... i know its not a good thing but i alternate things every so days to kind of mix up the ingredients. one day i'll take amp and the next day i'll take c2 or something. I had a bad experience the other night after taking c2. I ate and took a c2 before I headed to go study and I got shortness of breath and I could not focus at all....I was defently over stimulated. I also have a bad habit of taking stims before track practice. I normally go low on dosing, but that experience with only 1 pill of c2 scared me, and I had only taken a little caffeine earlier in the day....from what I have found the effects of the stimulant can vary from day to day. One day i'll feel like crap after taking something and another day i'll feel as though i could run sub 48 400's all day long.

 

[Danl4560]

Yeah there's definitely a price to be paid for the extra octane boost..your CNS will fizzle out later and the fatigue will be worse.

I have found that using very small doses of ephedra during grueling all day hikes/scrambles is the way to go. 5 mg every 3 hours or so along with some green tea or cocamine works well. Another idea is to use the ephedra with some transdermal caffiene. The TD caff is awesome and really helps to avoid the crash. I also alternate a little nicotine in for it's ability to lessen percieved effort and improve focus. Stacking with CM or other arginine product is a good idea to offset the vasoconstriction a little. Body Octane is awesome for this sort of endurance stack as is Rhodiola.

Just be prepared to be totally drained the next day and the days after. lol

There's also fine line between stimulated and over-stimulated.

Must be nice to be able to have low-dose stims work for you. Personally, I can take 100mg Ephedrine and 300mg caffeine and fall asleep 30mins later. The only stim I really enjoy and feel effects from is the HEAT/AMP combo.

 

[Gokmog]

:woohoo:

i've found the effects of stimulants to vary by the day too. i like caffeine and chocolate. coffee is too harsh. coffee is gaining in popularity because of the incredible antioxidant levels it has been touted for recently in the news, but i find it causes my stomach to become quite acidic and i'm not happy about how it dissolves the intestinal villi. i get really buzzed on a few mouthfuls of coffee.

building up a tolerance also means adjusting your dosage. i like to lay off stims. these androgenic stubstances sure can improve our workouts, but what can compare to a good old fashioned stimulant rush? i tried some white tea 1/2 hour before weight training, man.. i've heard how vitamin C helps recharge the adrenals.. someone on these boards also said it helps support testosterone production.. so we might as well always take some C if it's not in our diet.

[sip sip]

:run:

 

[bludevil]

I'm interested in this question as well. Lately I've been taking Scorch by Man to help lose a few pounds, but I've noticed my cardio/endurance has dropped drastically. Most noticablly is when I play basketball. I can't even play 5-10 minutes without being winded. This used to be a non-issue.

 

[400runner]

iv now dropped most of the name brand stims. and just now take caffine and green tea. much easier on my cns. plus does not seem to kill the endurence.

 

[bludevil]

I've found drinking sugar-free Red Bull gives me the kick I need without comprimising endurance.

 

[Gokmog]

i've also had burnout from stims. i think it is just losing too much energy. it's that whole fight or flight thing.. our muscles release their fuel. going full-out, whether or not what we are doing requires it. that's the downside of doing drugs, we lose control of our bodies. we can gain control of our bodies by perking ourselves up, increasing dopamine, focus.. to gradually lose that if we've gone too far. i think the advice to use small dosages, perhaps keep another dose on you if you're going out for a while, such as a 5-hour bike ride. i've made ma huang (the real herbal form of ephedra) and green tea with a little ginseng and licorice and ginger thrown in, as a tea and made a double dose, put it into a clean glass bottle (never put green tea in a metal such as those 12 oz cans, those should be made illegal BTW, corrosive to the teeth). i used a little hennesy bottle (thank you unknown drunk litterbug!). i take the second dose 5 hours into it for a long hike, and HAVE to keep or get some more food as ephedra is a major stimulant to me. that's a hard drug, that's for sure. i'm very displeased that it is still illegal in my state as i found it very effective for relieving the symptoms of hay fever. it's great because it opens the lungs too (good for asthma, which is now found to have some allergy response mechanisms) so it actually enhances respiratory function. i can easily habituate to ephedra and the stimulant effects are diminished to non-existent, except for a slight euphoric feeling. i could even say that ma huang could be good for depression. gradual increases in dosage, with a tapering off (otherwise the wind is out of the sails for 2-3 days). but the hunger comes back with a major vengeance on ephedra!

i figure why even have pure caffeine, might as well have some of the good antioxidants with it. but with EGCG extra folic acid supplementation would be wise (EGCGs effect on dihydrofolate reductase).

bludevil: have you tried glucoronolactone? i'm very curious about that, haven't tried it yet. i know the b vitamins and l-taurine and caffeine in the red bull help, along with the l-carnitine.. but i'm very interested in glucoronolactone from the description on the CNW site. i'd like to hear a comparison of pure glucoronolactone to red bull.

stimulants: it's what's for ravaging your CNS.. :twisted:

 

[bludevil]

bludevil: have you tried glucoronolactone? i'm very curious about that, haven't tried it yet. i know the b vitamins and l-taurine and caffeine in the red bull help, along with the l-carnitine.. but i'm very interested in glucoronolactone from the description on the CNW site. i'd like to hear a comparison of pure glucoronolactone to red bull.

Funny you mention glucoronolactone, I was reading up on it today actually. Might get some the next supplement purchase. As with Red Bull, found that throwing in Citrulline Mallate helps as well (endurance wise).

 

[400runner]

i was taking cirtulline mallate this summer...its good stuff. great endurence increases, and the vains start going crazy. i got mine at CNW...good stuff

 

[Rogue Drone]

I also alternate a little nicotine in for it's ability to lessen percieved effort and improve focus. Stacking with CM or other arginine product is a good idea to offset the vasoconstriction a little.
There's also fine line between stimulated and over-stimulated.

True dat. A nicotine patch is, for me, a nice sustained mental and physical stim without getting overly geeked , but it's hell on sleep that night. Bio, thinking you've probably tried virtually everything in the BAC catalog, ever try Cordyceps and/or Jiagoluan, spelling? as stims/adaptogens? Transdermal caffeine sounds like a good possibility for gradual release to sustain effect.

I add glucoronolactone, taurine, ALCAR and pottasium to my workout gatorade, have yet to try PLCAR. I already have caffeine in my sytem from coffee. Hard to define which ingredient(s) are making it an excellent workout energy mix, considerable sustained energy diff between half strength gatorade with and without the additionals. The taurine and pottasium should also be good to prevent cramps.

I really like Avant's HEAT as a mental and mood stim, problem is it needs to be taken on an empty stomach to be effective, that's often problematic for me, I eat a little a lot of times a day. Chocamine is better sustained energy for me than Ephedrine. I like the stimulation of Yohimbe(bine) but there's a very fine line between right on and too much. I wish M5aa worked for me, others like it as a pre-workout take, don't do diddly for me, 3-alpha was much stronger/better.

As the man said, it's a fine line between stimmed and overstimmed, it's like cardio in the cold, if you start out toasty warm, you'll overheat down the road.

 

[Gokmog]

i like rhodiola rosea.

i guess a few others here feel that yohimbe/ine is a "dirty" energy. heh.

mentioning taurine.. i like the idea of taurine, and i have a bulk powder of the stuff.. but i am getting too much reactive hypoglycemia or something that feels like it when i take it. it is not a nice feeling. so when i use it i am scared of it and use very little. i get hypoglycemia when i eat a high carb meal if i use vanadyl sulfate and a chromium, with or without zinc thrown in. but that i can handle if i've got more carbs to follow up on. is it that i have to have MORE carbs with the l-taurine, too? it's a "glucose disposal agent" that enhances insulin receptivity and glucose uptake. but too much for my mineralized self. it just affects me too strongly. i'd tremble off the treadmill and faint if i had any appreciable amount of l-taurine in a freakin' Gatorade concoction. i don't find the r-lipoic acid or the minerals to be as bad. does anyone else respond this much to l-taurine?

 

[TURUGBY]

i noticed when i take e/c/a my endurance is pretty shot. On the plus, my energy and focus is very good.