according to this x-factor should be bad for growth

[biggun2181]

read underneath series 2 prostaglandins...



Prostaglandins

LNA and LA are metabolized into eicosanoids. Eicosanoids can be further classified as Leukotrienes, Prostaglandins, Thromboxanes. For the purpose of this article, we will only examine prostaglandins.

Prostagladins are hormone like chemicals that regulate cellular activity. Prostagadins (PGs) are categorized into one of three groups, depending on which fatty acid they were metabolized from. The groups are, Series 1 PG's, Series 2 PG's, and Series 3 PG's.

Series 1 PG's

Series 1 PG's are formed from Gamma linolenic acid (GLA), (Which is converted from LA). Series 1 PG's are labeled as "Good" prostagladins. This is because they improve blood circulation, lower blood pressure, decrease inflammation, among other cellular functions [3]. Perhaps the most crucial effect is preventing arachidonic acid (AA) from being released by cells. The reason why this is so important is because AA is what makes Series 2 PG's.

Some of the main reasons why Series 1 PG's are so important to bodybuilders and those concerned with their health are:

• Muscle cell protein synthesis is increased
• Insulin Sensitivity is enhanced (Meaning less insulin is needed to deliver glucose)
• Elevates Growth Hormone secretion [4]

Series 2 PG's Series 2 PG's are labeled as "Bad" prostagladins. As said eariler, Series 2 PG's are made from arachidonic acid. They facilitate sodium retention, inflammation, and the formation of blood clots [3]. Series 2 PG's also increase cortisol release, a very catabolic hormone. Anyone interesting in building muscle does not want this to happen.

okay biochem guys what gives?

 

[NNM1989]

subscribed...this is VERY interesting.

 

[Aeternitatis]

AA is the precursor to ALL prostaglandins, not just one type. The conversion to series 2 is dependent on other factors. Many, many people have tried bringing this up in the past just to be clearly proven wrong. Besides, the proof is in the pudding: I have used X-Factor as well as many others and the common thing reported among us all is... SICK GAINS!

 

[Grunt76]

Aeternitatis, I'm curious as to the context of its use: PCT, Stacked with androgens, or alone?

I think that makes a HUGE difference. I'm kinda scared as to what it would do in PCT as the body is already geared towards catabolism, but then again I could very well be dead wrong...

 

[cable626]

interesting........subscribed. i won't even TRY to take a stab at this problem lol

 

[Aeternitatis]

Aeternitatis, I'm curious as to the context of its use: PCT, Stacked with androgens, or alone?

I think that makes a HUGE difference. I'm kinda scared as to what it would do in PCT as the body is already geared towards catabolism, but then again I could very well be dead wrong...

During PCT, I think X-Factor would help immensley with keeping gains. First, it can increase androgen receptor density which can make any PH cycle more effective. This of course will help you get the most bang for your tired out endo-tesosterone buck during PCT. Also, it increases protein synthesis, so assuming you have some good recovery prods during PCT (such as XTEND), you may even continue to gain. max_von used X-Factor during an SD cycle and had it go through into PCT. I remember him saying that it helped a lot in retaining mass.

As mentioned earlier, it is very powerful when stacked with androgens.

And alone, X-Factor is, IMO, better than a trans 1test/4ad cycle (this is from experience).

 

[italionstallion]

During PCT, I think X-Factor would help immensley with keeping gains. First, it can increase androgen receptor density which can make any PH cycle more effective. This of course will help you get the most bang for your tired out endo-tesosterone buck during PCT. Also, it increases protein synthesis, so assuming you have some good recovery prods during PCT (such as XTEND), you may even continue to gain. max_von used X-Factor during an SD cycle and had it go through into PCT. I remember him saying that it helped a lot in retaining mass.

As mentioned earlier, it is very powerful when stacked with androgens.

And alone, X-Factor is, IMO, better than a trans 1test/4ad cycle (this is from experience).

The only thing to consider is that during an androgen cycle and during PCT all healthy fats should be high and in doing so, would decrease the effectiveness of x factor if taken at the same time

 

[Aeternitatis]

Yep, you're gonna have to weigh the pros and cons yourself on that one. All I can say is it's been done before. Whether you wanna risk it, I don't know... but it would lead to some serious gains for sure.

 

[BigMattTx]

The only thing to consider is that during an androgen cycle and during PCT all healthy fats should be high and in doing so, would decrease the effectiveness of x factor if taken at the same time

EXACTLY. I would rather save some CEE to start with PCT and run some Sesathin/Fish Oil to get cholesterol values back to normal.

 

[Aeternitatis]

EXACTLY. I would rather save some CEE to start with PCT and run some Sesathin/Fish Oil to get cholesterol values back to normal.

And that's fine. You for one don't want to take the risk. I think some people will though. I know for a fact that some people have. And in terms of maximizing a cycles effectiveness and maximizing muscle retention during PCT, nothing works better than X-Factor. But, as mentioned, the risks go up.

 

[BigMattTx]

I agree.

For me, the cost-benefit ratio would not be great enough. The cost is spending an extra $100 and lengthening recovery time. The benefit is retaining more mass and maybe putting on a little extra, which can be done with some CEE. X-Factor is a great product but it is somewhat comparable to Anabolics in terms of gains and I would much rather use it standalone.

 

[Aeternitatis]

I agree.

For me, the cost-benefit ratio would not be great enough. The cost is spending an extra $100 and lengthening recovery time. The benefit is retaining more mass and maybe putting on a little extra, which can be done with some CEE. X-Factor is a great product but it is somewhat comparable to Anabolics in terms of gains and I would much rather use it standalone.

I understand where you're coming from, but you cannot compare the on-cycle beneits of X-factor to CEE. Not even remotely close.

Though I too would persoanlly use X-factor standalone; but I also don't use AAS.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

AA is the precursor to ALL prostaglandins, not just one type. The conversion to series 2 is dependent on other factors.

Which factors would it be dependant on????

 

[Grunt76]

In the last few months I've seen a few reports of muscle tears. These things happen. Interestingly, many of the people to whom this happened had used X-Factor pretty recently. Coincidence? Thoughts? Theory?

 

[Aeternitatis]

In the last few months I've seen a few reports of muscle tears. These things happen. Interestingly, many of the people to whom this happened had used X-Factor pretty recently. Coincidence? Thoughts? Theory?

After speaking to an X-Factor devotee who experienced a rather serious pectoral tear, I'm leaning in the direction of accelerated strength gain causing users to put up more weight than they're ready to handle.

Similar to the way that steroids will cause surges in strength which can lead to various muscular, ligament, et cetera injuries.

Certain people will have to check themselves ad make sure they aren't training too hard for their own good. Most of the time, X-factor will increase strength and otehr aspects of performance without a concurrent increase in recovery abilities. Essentially this means that in those who like to go ape **** in the gym, the potential for overtraining and even serious injury increases.

Before I understood this, I overtrained while using X-Factor. It was my first cycle and gains were incredible (size, strength, intensity). I went balls to the wall and ended up having to take a week off from training due to overstressing my system.

If you do train super hardcore and intend to use XF, I highly suggest stacking it with creatine and BCAA cause those to things will go a long way towards helping with recovery. A good antioxidant blend like DS Vigor will also help quite a bit.

 

[NiteHawk]

I wonder if X-Factor is legal in natural bodybuilding shows?

 

[Grunt76]

I wonder if X-Factor is legal in natural bodybuilding shows?

Why would it not be? Of course it is.

 

[Aeternitatis]

I wonder if X-Factor is legal in natural bodybuilding shows?

There are no restrictions on X-Factor in any sporting event.

 

[doggzj]

Would be cool if AA worked with fish oil and sesamin. Pretty worthless that it can't

 

[Aeternitatis]

Would be cool if AA worked with fish oil and sesamin. Pretty worthless that it can't

You got that statement switched around.

But more importantly, you're stuck in narrow view mode (probably partially responsible to the early X-Factor recommendations).

X-Factor and Sesathin work well together and form one of the sickest most effective total body recomp stacks ever. Add in some ephedrine and you're in for the best cycle you've ever had short of straight up AAS.

Fish oil is greatly overrated. Its effects have been exceedingly exaggerated. But more importantly, one isn't expected to cut all so-called "healthy fats". Fish oil is not to be supplemented while on X-Factor but fish can be consumed a couple of times per week. If you are desperately paranoid about living without some fish oil, we recommend no more than 1 cap per day. If desired, Melting Point can also be added if MAJOR fat loss is a priority.

The problem is, we need to strike a certain balance otherwise the fishoil "out competes" the AA. But this balance is different in everyone. It is much easier (and less expensive to the consumer) to just recommend limiting intake rather than trying to tolerance map and end up wasting an entire cycle to find your personal balance.

 

[WannaGro]

I have a quick question as I am currently debating running X factor. That is do I really have to do the loading phase, or not and what do you think the optimal dosage for a lean 200 lbs guy would be. I have read numerous posts and logs about X but would like to get your personal opinion.

 

[Aeternitatis]

I have a quick question as I am currently debating running X factor. That is do I really have to do the loading phase, or not and what do you think the optimal dosage for a lean 200 lbs guy would be. I have read numerous posts and logs about X but would like to get your personal opinion.

I don't know of any loading phase. I would suggest the basic 4 caps per day with a clean diet. Eating clean is key in preventing side effects (low sugar/processed carb, no trans fat). Also be sure to get lots of magnesium and potassium too as well as drink lots of water.

 

[MadMas]

Hmmm i guess i am a bit in the dark about AA. I know no EFAs while on xfactor. Any reason for no eca? Thinking about tossing in XF on a cut.

Interesting thread. Sub'd.

 

[BigVrunga]

And alone, X-Factor is, IMO, better than a trans 1test/4ad cycle (this is from experience).

This is the first Ive heard of X-Factor, if the above statement is correct we should be hearing a hell of a lot more in the near future...

BV

 

[Aeternitatis]

This is the first Ive heard of X-Factor, if the above statement is correct we should be hearing a hell of a lot more in the near future...

BV

That's only my personal opinion. I want to put it into context (keep in mind, I do work for Molecular Nutrition and Body of Science magazine).

I regrettably did a 4 week 1T/4ad/1,4ad (fairly high dose) cycle when I was 18. Ironically, it was the same month and year X-Factor originally came out. I really wish I had gone with the XF. When it first came out, I believed it was total garbage like everyone else did.

I didn't use XF until February 2005 when Bill (owner of the company and the magazine) did a massive trial on BB.com (I kept a copy of my log here too). My gains were incredible... absolutely blew me away. And I went into it thinking it was total garbage. The gains in both size and strength were better than what I got from my PH cycle. I also leaned out a fair bit although I was not cutting in the least (it is a common "side effect" of XF due to PGE2a's modulation of cAMP).

Later that year, I think it was October, I was contacted by Molecular Nutrition and took a job with them (and recently started working on Body of Science too, which is ****ing awesome).

It is my firm belief that 99% of everyone should honestly get incredible gains in size and strength with concurrent losses in bodyfat. Those who don't likely did not have their diet or training in line. In my experience, this is almost always the case. X-Factor (arachidonic acid) is tricky sometimes, and can exaggerate the negative effects of a bad diet. Concrodantly, it exaggerates the positive effects of a clean diet.

The averae gain is a lean 10-15 lbs but I got a PM some time ago by a guy who got an incredible 25lbs (~5lb fat). That was crazy!

You guys probably all know Krzna from AX. He is a big fan of X-Factor, used it during cutting some time ago.

The only dowside to XF is it doesn't seem to improve recovery time so the possibility of overtraining actually increasing from rapid srength gains and increases in intensity (AA ups brain alertness without stimulation). I have personally experienced this and found that stacking BCAA and creatine with X-Factor to be the best route.

I'll stop this long ass post for now.

 

[Aeternitatis]

Hmmm i guess i am a bit in the dark about AA. I know no EFAs while on xfactor. Any reason for no eca? Thinking about tossing in XF on a cut.

Interesting thread. Sub'd.

Absolutely no NSAIDs including aspirin. But ephedra and caffeine are good to go with it. I'm currently using X-Factor with some eph+Basic Cuts and it's going well. Oh, and PowerFULL with X-Factor and BodyOctane is sick!

 

[MadMas]

I hope this lives up to all the hype. Its very hard to believe that a non hormonal supplement can give these kinds of gains. I know i was a non responder to pretty much every non hormonal ive tried.

Seems like a great branch between cycles.

 

[Aeternitatis]

I hope this lives up to all the hype. Its very hard to believe that a non hormonal supplement can give these kinds of gains. I know i was a non responder to pretty much every non hormonal ive tried.

Seems like a great branch between cycles.

It has lived up to the hype. I mean, many people on other baords have used it with great success.... plus a whole lot of non-forum users call in with great stories.

One kid who took X-Factor was like 18 and a football player in some school where football is taken very seriously (think Varsity Blues). While on cycle with XF, he grew 2 inches (in 50 days) and had the most insane srength and size gains. Everyone thought he was using steroids and his coach made him take a drug test. He was clean of course but people still think he uses gear.

XF is a great bridge between AAS but also quite potent with AAS and during PCT. This is because it increases androgen receptor density and muscle tissue's responsiveness/sensitivity to anabolic hormones (testosterone, hGH, insulin, IGF-1, etc).

 

[TooPowerful4u]

It has lived up to the hype. I mean, many people on other baords have used it with great success.... plus a whole lot of non-forum users call in with great stories.

One kid who took X-Factor was like 18 and a football player in some school where football is taken very seriously (think Varsity Blues). While on cycle with XF, he grew 2 inches (in 50 days) and had the most insane srength and size gains. Everyone thought he was using steroids and his coach made him take a drug test. He was clean of course but people still think he uses gear.

XF is a great bridge between AAS but also quite potent with AAS and during PCT. This is because it increases androgen receptor density and muscle tissue's responsiveness/sensitivity to anabolic hormones (testosterone, hGH, insulin, IGF-1, etc).

whooahhhh are you saying this product is safe for kids?

 

[BigVrunga]

Aternitatis,

Do you guys have pre and post cycle bloodwork from your X-Factor testers?

BV

 

[cable626]

While on cycle with XF, he grew 2 inches (in 50 days)

2 inches where? :blink:

 

[Aeternitatis]

Aternitatis,

Do you guys have pre and post cycle bloodwork from your X-Factor testers?

BV

X-Factor is dosed and designed as per the results of many clinical studies regarding arachidonic acid. These studies have been posted all over BB.com. They show none of the markers of AA related diseases even in doses 70% higher than what is used for XF. I'll go look for them so you can see.

As for a direct in-vivo study, just wait.

 

[Aeternitatis]

2 inches where? :blink:

In height! Crazy isn't it? I actually have some theories as to why it happened too.

 

[Aeternitatis]

whooahhhh are you saying this product is safe for kids?

With parents permission, yes.

Keep in mind, X-Factor is simply arachidonic acid (an n-6 fatty acid). It is not a hormone of any kind.

And no, it is not easy to get from food (though possible). If you decide to try to get it solely from food in the proper dosae, you're gonna spend WAY more money than you would've just supplementing it. Unless you happen to like organ meats such as liver and heart... they're loaded with AA.

 

[xtraflossy]

That's only my personal opinion. I want to put it into context (keep in mind, I do work for Molecular Nutrition and Body of Science magazine).

I regrettably did a 4 week 1T/4ad/1,4ad (fairly high dose) cycle when I was 18. Ironically, it was the same month and year X-Factor originally came out. I really wish I had gone with the XF. When it first came out, I believed it was total garbage like everyone else did.

I didn't use XF until February 2005 when Bill (owner of the company and the magazine) did a massive trial on BB.com (I kept a copy of my log here too). My gains were incredible... absolutely blew me away. And I went into it thinking it was total garbage. The gains in both size and strength were better than what I got from my PH cycle. I also leaned out a fair bit although I was not cutting in the least (it is a common "side effect" of XF due to PGE2a's modulation of cAMP).

Later that year, I think it was October, I was contacted by Molecular Nutrition and took a job with them (and recently started working on Body of Science too, which is ****ing awesome).

It is my firm belief that 99% of everyone should honestly get incredible gains in size and strength with concurrent losses in bodyfat. Those who don't likely did not have their diet or training in line. In my experience, this is almost always the case. X-Factor (arachidonic acid) is tricky sometimes, and can exaggerate the negative effects of a bad diet. Concrodantly, it exaggerates the positive effects of a clean diet.

The averae gain is a lean 10-15 lbs but I got a PM some time ago by a guy who got an incredible 25lbs (~5lb fat). That was crazy!

You guys probably all know Krzna from AX. He is a big fan of X-Factor, used it during cutting some time ago.

The only dowside to XF is it doesn't seem to improve recovery time so the possibility of overtraining actually increasing from rapid srength gains and increases in intensity (AA ups brain alertness without stimulation). I have personally experienced this and found that stacking BCAA and creatine with X-Factor to be the best route.

I'll stop this long ass post for now.

I must be one of the 1% who DIDNT get ANYTHING from AA (x-factor). - got one bottle, noticed nothing.
Month and a half later, picked 2 bottles up thinking Id give it another try, after everyone said the effects were really noticable halfway through second bottle.

Diet is always clean, as it has been for years (just a habbit now)Even dosed as high as 5 caps a day (currently, Im at 183.9lbs)
If there are "tricky" parts to using this supplement, (aside from the general rules advertised and expressed on this and other boards) they must have fooled me.
I was really hoping this would provide at least some gains...
Im about 5 days out from finishing bottle #2...
:blink: :run:

 

[WannaGro]

I haven't read krnza's log, but dtrain had a log that I read, which is one of the logs that got me interested.

 

[BigVrunga]

X-Factor is dosed and designed as per the results of many clinical studies regarding arachidonic acid. These studies have been posted all over BB.com. They show none of the markers of AA related diseases even in doses 70% higher than what is used for XF. I'll go look for them so you can see.

As for a direct in-vivo study, just wait.

I'd definitely like to see some recent lab results from a trusted board member...

 

[bbuild]

I was thinking about doing a cut with x-factor. Would you recommend carb cycling with it? Any logs where someone did the above?

 

[sublimejeh]

Aeternitatis: I want to run some Xfactor this summer, but have been running tons of cissus based products for the past 2 months.

Can I start up Xfactor immediatly upon stopping these supplements, or do I need to stop the cissus a while before starting Xfactor?

Also, has there been a conclusion drawn on whether the other USP products (besides Cissus Rx) would be alright to use during the cycle?- powerFULL, Symmetry, cAMP

 

[BIGnaturalBROCK]

During PCT, I think X-Factor would help immensley with keeping gains. First, it can increase androgen receptor density which can make any PH cycle more effective. This of course will help you get the most bang for your tired out endo-tesosterone buck during PCT. Also, it increases protein synthesis, so assuming you have some good recovery prods during PCT (such as XTEND), you may even continue to gain. max_von used X-Factor during an SD cycle and had it go through into PCT. I remember him saying that it helped a lot in retaining mass.

As mentioned earlier, it is very powerful when stacked with androgens.

And alone, X-Factor is, IMO, better than a trans 1test/4ad cycle (this is from experience).

why go halfway with mostly unknown substances like ph, with most if not all studies done for the benefit of the companies selling the commercial products, when you can just take gear and have much more information at your fingertips.?

also, what are sick gains?
is there a quantity, quality, or strength increase in muscle, or is it just how you feel? please elaborate.

 

[Aeternitatis]

why go halfway with mostly unknown substances like ph, with most if not all studies done for the benefit of the companies selling the commercial products, when you can just take gear and have much more information at your fingertips.?

also, what are sick gains?
is there a quantity, quality, or strength increase in muscle, or is it just how you feel? please elaborate.

Arachidonic acid is HEAVILY researched. The product has a patent with the precise language "To Increase Muscle Mass in Humans". You don't just get that kind of backing without very solid data and research. Molecular Nutrition is the only company legally allowed to sell arachidonic acid for the purpose of fitness enhancement.

As for quantity/quality, I already addressed that. Perhaps you should re-read my posts.

EDIT: I'm not sure I follow your post. X-Factor is not a PH, it is not hormonal. It is an omega-6 fatty acid present in tiny amounts in animal fats.

 

[Aeternitatis]

I'd definitely like to see some recent lab results from a trusted board member...

I doubt anyone will be up for it. The cost of checking for the markers that are checked for in the clinicals is not cheap. It isn't like just getting T levels checked with a blood test.

Anyways, I'll have some really cool, brand-spankin new in-vitro stuff to show you soon. Gotta wait for the official release though.

 

[Aeternitatis]

Aeternitatis: I want to run some Xfactor this summer, but have been running tons of cissus based products for the past 2 months.

Can I start up Xfactor immediatly upon stopping these supplements, or do I need to stop the cissus a while before starting Xfactor?

Also, has there been a conclusion drawn on whether the other USP products (besides Cissus Rx) would be alright to use during the cycle?- powerFULL, Symmetry, cAMP

I can't say for sure about the cissus cause I haven't done it myself. I'm leaning toward incompatibility on this particular combo though. Take a few days off Cissus before starting XF.

As for PowerFULL and Symmetry they stack well with XF.

 

[BigVrunga]

Symmetry is a concentrated extract of Cissus Q...

 

[Aeternitatis]

Symmetry is a concentrated extract of Cissus Q...

I know, but without the antiiflammatory ketosterones.

 

[BigVrunga]

I know, but without the antiiflammatory ketosterones.

Hmmm...that's true. I wonder if the extract method is that precise where it was able to precisely isolate one ketosterone from another...perhaps its in such a concentration that any anti-inflammatory constituents are insignificant.


This is from USP:

USPlabs has continued our study on Cissus and isolated 4 hydroxyl sterones extracted then concentrated back into the cissus powder. Basically robbing it of its synergy on connective tissue health (it may retain some qualities). From the testing, Cissus (assuming he meant Symmetry here) is purely anabolic and should be a decent anabolic product.

You've run Symmetry with X-Factor with no problems though, correct? What would be the side effects of an anti-inflammatory with high-levels of arachidonic acid in your system? Would it just render the AA ineffective, or are there health concerns?

BV

 

[Aeternitatis]

You've run Symmetry with X-Factor with no problems though, correct? What would be the side effects of an anti-inflammatory with high-levels of arachidonic acid in your system? Would it just render the AA ineffective, or are there health concerns?

BV

Yep. And they work well together.

The thing is, only really strong anti-inflammatory substances are going to render XF ineffective. We know this for sure with NSAIDs. I can't say that Cissus Rx is okay to take with XF simply because I know Cissus is anti-inflammatory but I don't clearly know the mechanism nor have I experimented with it myself.

BTW, someone mentioned stacking XF with NHA... there are a bunch of people over at BB.com doing this right now. The last log I perused the guy was up 13lbs on day 32.

 

[BigVrunga]

BTW, someone mentioned stacking XF with NHA... there are a bunch of people over at BB.com doing this right now. The last log I perused the guy was up 13lbs on day 32.

I think that was me via PM. Could you post up some links to those logs?

BV

 

[sublimejeh]

Yep. And they work well together.

The thing is, only really strong anti-inflammatory substances are going to render XF ineffective. We know this for sure with NSAIDs. I can't say that Cissus Rx is okay to take with XF simply because I know Cissus is anti-inflammatory but I don't clearly know the mechanism nor have I experimented with it myself.

Thanks for the info... I would love to try Cissus with Xfactor but I don't have the 100 to waste if it doesnt workout

Will you be experimenting with it in the near future?