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    The truth about usnic acid


    What we know about usnic acid:

    Since the rise of usnic acid as a fat loss supplement, many disputes have taken place as to the safety of this product. In fact, it seems the entire elite fitness board and others have labeled usnic acid as more dangerous than DNP. Because of this, I am writing this article in an attempt to shed some light on the factual information we currently have at the moment. First I would like to address the two main studies which have been used as evidence to support that usnic acid is dangerous.


    ------------------------------------------------
    Study 1:

    J Ethnopharmacol 1991 Jul;33(3):217-20 Related Articles, Books,

    Mitodepressive, clastogenic and biochemical effects of (+)-usnic acid in mice.

    al-Bekairi AM, Qureshi S, Chaudhry MA, Krishna DR, Shah AH.

    Experimental Animal Care Centre, College of Pharmacy, King Saud University, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

    Mice were treated orally with aqueous suspensions of (+)-usnic acid in a single dose of either 100 or 200 mg/kg. The effects on femur cells and proteins and on nucleic acids of liver cells were studied 24-72 h after treatment. (+)-Usnic acid was found to affect the proliferation of polychromatic erythrocytes possibly by interference with RNA biosynthesis. The slight increase in the micronucleated polychromatic erythrocytes without affecting DNA synthesis suggests an effect of usnic acid on spindle apparatus.
    ----------------------------------------

    This study has caused a lot of debate as far as the extent to which usnic acid is cancerous. In reality, it seems that most people do not understand the results of this study and are blowing the slight clastogenic effects out of proportion.

    That article is simply a report of the results of a standard Mouse Micronucleus test. It demonstrates some (slight) degree of clastogenic (chromosome-breaking) activity in laboratory animals. While clastogenicity was demonstrated by the increase in micronucleated (immature) red blood cells in the one mouse micronucleus test to which he referred, UA does not cause point mutations, as shown by the negative Ames test (Ames test screens for point mutations, micronucleus test screens for clastogenicity). Neither test comes close to proving cancer-causing ability, and neither has a THING to do with liver toxicity.

    Of the two studies, this is the only one that actual appears to have relevance on the surface. Hopefully based on the above explanation, one will realize that this study is no basis for alarm. If one wants to make a better assessment, they could try sub chronic oral toxicity studies in rats and mice, and a chronic toxicity study in transgenic mice. They're just two of a number of standard toxicology studies that my employer performs, but they're not cheap. However, they will provide better info for carcinogenic potential as well as a good look at any target organ effects.

    The second study presented has been poorly represented and explained. As stated earlier, a reputable member of the elite fitness board posted this study. At which time it became a sticky pronouncing the danger of usnic acid. No one came to the defense of usnic acid nor were many questions asked. As a result, we can speculate that the majority of people who read that posted were misinformed about the facts. As a side note, I personally tried to have a logical discussion with elite fitness moderator Mr. X about usnic acid. In an attempt to provide logical discourse, I presented the evidence as best I could. The next day, the thread was closed. In my opinion, this was rather unfortunate as I always believed the purpose of the message boards was to promote discussion. Regardless, here is the 2nd study that was presented on the leading bodybuilding boards. It was titled “Why Usnic Acid causes liver failure/cancer”


    -----------------------------------
    Study 2 WITH ADDITIONAL COMMENTARY BY macrophage69alpha, elite fitness moderator:

    “Why usnic acid causes liver failure/cancer...

    UA is generally a much weaker uncoupler than DNP.. HOWEVER THERE ARE VERY UNPLEASANT EXCEPTIONS..

    This study bodes very ill for the use of usnic acid and the link to liver failure/cancer..

    UA requires 1/50 the dose to cause complete halt of oxidative phoshoralation in the liver as compared to DNP...

    interesting that the users of LIPO-k have liver failure.”

    CITED STUDY:

    1: Nat Toxins 1996;4(2):96-102 Related Articles, Links

    Lichen acids as uncouplers of oxidative phosphorylation of mouse-liver mitochondria.

    Abo-Khatwa AN, al-Robai AA, al-Jawhari DA.

    Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Science, King Abdulaziz University, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

    Three lichen acids-namely, (+)usnic acid, vulpinic acid, and atranorin-were isolated from three lichen species (Usnea articulata, Letharia vulpina, and Parmelia tinctorum, respectively). The effects of these lichen products on mice-liver mitochondrial oxidative functions in various respiratory states and on oxidative phosphorylation were studied polarographically in vitro. The lichen acids exhibited characteristics of the 2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP), a classical uncoupler of oxidative phosphorylation. Thus, they released respiratory control and oligomycin inhibited respiration, hindered ATP synthesis, and enhanced Mg(+2)-ATPase activity. (+)Usnic acid at a concentration of 0.75 microM inhibited ADP/O ratio by 50%, caused maximal stimulation of both state-4 respiration (100%) and ATPase activity (300%). Atranorin was the only lichen acid with no significant effect on ATPase. The uncoupling effect was dose-dependent in all cases. The minimal concentrations required to cause complete uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation were as follows: (+)usnic acid (1 microM), vulpinic acid, atranorin (5 microM) and DNP (50 microM). It was postulated that the three lichen acids induce uncoupling by acting on the inner mitochondrial membrane through their lipophilic properties and protonophoric activities


    “THIS "supplement" is VERY UNSAFE


    ’Complete shutdown of oxidative phosphoralation causes liver failure, the inhibition even seen with lower doses causes tremendous amounts of free radical damage as well as impairing liver function which in those susceptible MAY lead to early/rapid expression of liver related cancers.’”
    -------------------------------------------------------------

    The study posted is valid, but is not relevant by any means. All it says is that Usnic Acid WORKS. It is indeed an uncoupler, and the study cited proves it. Uncouplers can shut down the liver completely if OVERDOSED.

    The study cited looks at the concentrations of UA or DNP at the target site (liver mitochondria) which cause complete shutdown of OP. In the study cited, UA did so at 1/50th the concentration of DNP. But to correlate this to dosages taken orally, one has to consider basic issues in absorption and transport to the liver mitochondria. I doubt that DNP and UA are completely identical in such regards. So one could not simply say that you should take 1/50th as much UA as you would DNP for the same degree of biological effect, and of course you couldn't say anything about such effects in any other organ, at least not based on this study. In addition, many consumers take a usnic acid dosage well over a normal DNP dosage and liver failure has not been a concern by any means. This fact alone shows the fallacious nature of this comment.

    UA does what it is claimed to do, at least in mice under the conditions of the experiment reported. As with the biological effects of a myriad of other biologically active substances, from certain vitamins to most prescription drugs, at the proper dose it can produce a desired effect and yet in excess, it can prove fatal.


    Here is what we know through experience. Some users of UA/SU have reported the following:

    1. Rash – Some users develop a rash on usnic acid and sodium usniate. This appears to an allergic reaction to some substance within usnic acid. What we have witnessed is that the rash is mostly present in higher dosages – usually above 750mg. In addition, the rash has subsided in all people who have reported the rash. For some it took a few days, others around 2 weeks to completely subside.

    2. Heat and increased sweating – this is the most commonly reported side effect of usnic acid. The heat stops as usage stops and is simply a by-product of the way usnic acid works in your body.

    3. Headaches – some people have reported headaches. This could very well be a result of the increased heat and potentially dehydration from increased sweating.

    4. Vomiting – 2 or 3 people reported vomiting while taking usnic acid. This tends to be a rare occurrence as far as we know.

    5. Elevated enzyme levels – A couple people checked their liver enzyme levels via a blood test and found their levels to be above normal (in one situation, quite high actually). While only a few people have checked their levels, it seems that usnic acid might indeed cause some strain on the liver. Just as 17aa orals are liver toxic and other supplements can raise blood pressure, cause prostate hypertrophy, and other sides, this might be one side effect of usnic acid use. I should point out that it is recommended that usnic acid be cycled (2 weeks at time) to give your liver sufficient recuperation time if it is indeed being strained.

    6. Abdominal pain – I have only witnessed this from a few users. This tends to be rare as well.



    Comments:

    There needs to be an understanding that simply because a product is over the counter, does not mean that it can be abused. Usnic acid is powerful and effective, yet needs to be treated with respect, just like any other supplement you might take. For some reason, people having been making a huge fuss over usnic acid and the truth is that we have yet to see any intelligent arguments made as to why usnic acid is a horrible supplement so long as it is dosed properly. I hope that through the information presented above, one will see that usnic acid has not been shown to be any more “dangerous” than an ECA for example. The interesting thing about products containing ephedra is that according to the FDA, over 800 injuries have been reported by users and doctors to the FDA and various state medical bodies, including more than 50 deaths. Most of these cases involve the heart attacks or high blood pressure leading to bleeding in the brain or stroke.

    Does this mean we should stop using ECA’s? In my opinion no. The objective here is not to present evidence against ephedra. In fact, I think it is effective and safe when used correctly. The key phrase in the previous sentence was, “when used correctly”. What I am trying to say is to take caution when using any supplement for it seems to be the trend that for any effective supplement, there will be people with adverse reactions. The same goes for prescription based drugs as well. Next time you view a commercial on TV for a prescription drug, listen to the words at the end that usually state, “side effects include: nausea, dizziness, diarrhea, nose bleed, etc.

    Clearly, the side effects witnessed with usnic acid use are not beyond the normal range witnessed with many other effective supplements. In addition, much of the hype and hysteria should now be reduced based on the explanations to the misrepresented studies above. Lastly, I would like to point out that I do not claim to be a doctor, expert, or scientist. I, however, have done the research on the information available of usnic acid and these are the conclusions we can LOGICALLY make at this point in time. I think it is important for people to continue to post their experiences so that more information can be gathered on usnic acid. This information is extremely valuable for the continuation of the learning and education process regarding usnic acid.

    If you are interested in using usnic acid, the following advice should help to make your cycle more successful:

    1.As stated earlier, usnic acid may put strain on the liver. Using ALA will help if this is a concern to you (Vitamin C, E, and magnesium should help as well).

    2.Only run a 2-week cycle. Users have reported a decrease in fat loss after week 2, and if UA does indeed put strain on the liver, it is a good idea to cycle the product.

    3.Drink a bunch of water each day. This is a good recommendation no matter what your doing.



    Special thanks to DaddyR for helping with much of the analysis. If you have questions, feel free to contact me at usnicacid@bdcnutrition.com or PM me.

    Thank you.

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    Very nice article WYD, I award you an A. But I have a couple questions:

    Is UA ideal post AAS cycle, as in to replace a cutting AAS? Or would the liver be too overwhelmed?

    and

    This is probably a no brainer....but what liver malfunctions would cause someone to avoid UA? Im going to go with most if not all.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Very nice article WYD, I award you an A. But I have a couple questions:

    Is UA ideal post AAS cycle, as in to replace a cutting AAS? Or would the liver be too overwhelmed?

    and

    This is probably a no brainer....but what liver malfunctions would cause someone to avoid UA? Im going to go with most if not all.

    I am a little confused by your first question. Are you asking if UA should be used on an AAS cutting cycle with other 17aa orals?

    As for the second question - I agree with your logic. I am not all that knowledgable on liver conditions, but I would suspect that people with a condition would want to stay clear of many things that could possibly irritate their condition.
    •   
       

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    Im saying like...I know how at the end of bulking cycles people add "cutting" agents to reduce fat they gained during the cycle and to lean out...would UA be a solid candidate for a post cycle cutting tool? or would it be too hard on the liver after a say 10 week AAS cycle?
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    Good Post WYD.. I really appreciate the information on Usnic Acid.. so far the Usnic Acid appears to be working good for me.. one other question, let's say you happend to take in a larger than normal amount of fat.. would it work first on the fat you have ingested or does it still work on the stored fat in your body?

     
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Im saying like...I know how at the end of bulking cycles people add "cutting" agents to reduce fat they gained during the cycle and to lean out...would UA be a solid candidate for a post cycle cutting tool? or would it be too hard on the liver after a say 10 week AAS cycle?
    The only thing I've heard of people running directly after a cycle is clen. From what I've heard, it has some anticatabolic properties that should help out post cycle. I think UA shreds fat way to quick to be a good choice post cycle. While it is fairly muscle sparing from what we've seen, I think the combination of a fast fat loss agent and newly acquired muscle wouldn't be a good combo. As for the liver, I think that you would have no issues if you used UA for a 2 week cycle after your 10 week aas cycle...
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    Originally posted by Matthew D
    Good Post WYD.. I really appreciate the information on Usnic Acid.. so far the Usnic Acid appears to be working good for me.. one other question, let's say you happend to take in a larger than normal amount of fat.. would it work first on the fat you have ingested or does it still work on the stored fat in your body?

     
    It would be only logical that you would have to work through ingested fat before stored... At least, the way I see it...
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    GOOD **** MAN!!

     

    its about time i can read some unbiased info

     

    h19
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    WHO'S,

    Should you still work up to your max dosage if you have a cycle of UA under your belt?

    Or can you pretty much jump righ to the max dosages within the first days?
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    Originally posted by SteveDFW
    WHO'S,

    Should you still work up to your max dosage if you have a cycle of UA under your belt?

    Or can you pretty much jump righ to the max dosages within the first days?
     

    Most of the information provided for dosing, and specifically, increasing dosage over time is to have people assess their tolerance.  With previous UA experience, I would be comfortable saying that one could be more liberal with the dosages.  Obviously you wouldn't want to exceed your highest dosage right away, but clearly you wouldn't have to stay at 250mg for a couple days if you know that 500 or 750 was fine with you...  Does this help?

     

     
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    Yes, very much so. Thanks
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    Hi,
    I jsut have a quesiton related to YJ's earlier question...
    I juse ended mybulking cycle, and wanted to go on a cutting cycle for 3 - 4 weeks .....
    how long should i wait after bulking to initiate my first dose of usnic acid? i was planning 2 weeks ........
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    Originally posted by Kay
    Hi,
    I jsut have a quesiton related to YJ's earlier question...
    I juse ended mybulking cycle, and wanted to go on a cutting cycle for 3 - 4 weeks .....
    how long should i wait after bulking to initiate my first dose of usnic acid? i was planning 2 weeks ........
    I would probably give yourself at least 4 weeks or so to taper your calories down gradually.  If you go immediately into a cutting cycle after a bulking cycle, you will reduce calories too much and your body will think it is in starvation.  I suppose you could use UA while decreasing your calories gradually, but I think the results wouldn't be as good because your cals will at most be at a maintenance level.  I'd like to see what other people have to offer on this subject as well.

    WYD

     
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    Originally posted by whosyourdaddy02


    I would probably give yourself at least 4 weeks or so to taper your calories down gradually.  If you go immediately into a cutting cycle after a bulking cycle, you will reduce calories too much and your body will think it is in starvation.  I suppose you could use UA while decreasing your calories gradually, but I think the results wouldn't be as good because your cals will at most be at a maintenance level.  I'd like to see what other people have to offer on this subject as well.

    WYD

     
    yeah i am really confused abotu this too, considering i only went on a 28 day cycle with very moderate dosage, i am thinking 2 weeks should be enough ........ i need to lose about 20 lbs of fat before reading week (feb middle) .... going to mexico
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    I remember someone asking the half life of UA and it was stated somewhere between 8 to 14 hours.

    I decided to see if I could get an idea of the half life of Sodium Usniate (UA's cousin). I started with taking 600mg twice a day 12 hours a part (1,200mg) a day. I took this for 2 weeks with no problems at all. I then decided to take another dose of 600mg a day for a total of 1,800mg. I would take each 600mg dose 8 hours a part. After taking the 3rd dose on the first day of this dosing scheme, my skin starting itching and I could feel the rash coming on (I have had the SU rash before) I quickly stopped the 3 a day regime and went back to 2 a day. Also, started clariten immediately to stop the rash. The first time I used SU, I broke out at 900mg taken once a day at night. So, I would have to infer that less than 300mg of SU is in my system 12 hours later when I take my 2nd dose.

    This is very unscientific but I would have to say that there is quite a bit of SU left in your system after 8 hours. I plan to stay on the 2 times a day dosing 12 hours a part. I have also found that if I stack it with EC stack, I have no problem with lethargy when I take it in the morning.

    I would think that this may be extrapolated to UA but not sure.
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    yj , i think ua can be used post cycle pretty effectively , as its pretty muscle sparing like wyd said , a low dose wud definitely help imo...
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    Originally posted by raybravo
    yj , i think ua can be used post cycle pretty effectively , as its pretty muscle sparing like wyd said , a low dose wud definitely help imo...
     

    I think it is muscle sparing in the regards that one is usually only running the product for 2 weeks.  How much muscle could you reasonably lose during this time?  I need to do more research on ua and the thyroid to see if there are any effects there...

     
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    Originally posted by whosyourdaddy02


     

    I think it is muscle sparing in the regards that one is usually only running the product for 2 weeks.  How much muscle could you reasonably lose during this time?  I need to do more research on ua and the thyroid to see if there are any effects there...

     
    if ua is working anywhere on those lines , it shud cause massive muscle loss , but dnp does the same , but from experience people say its tremendously muscle sparing , while on paper , it shud make u lose muscle . so i dont know ....
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    A few more questions about using UA.
    First I have done Dnp before at fairly high doses for a week and the sides didn't bother me too much.. did it during the middle of summer that was stupid but besides that it was handlable (if thats a word).

    How would using low doses of ua with clen post cycle go to take advantage of the anit-catabolic nature of clen. SOmething like this maybe.
    Day 1-3 80mcg
    Day 4-5: 100mcg
    Day 6-12: 120mcg 500 mg UA
    Day13: 100 mcg 500 mg UA
    Day14: 80 mcgs 750 mg UA
    Day 15-18 750 mg UA
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    Just for clarification. I see UA supplemented with ALA. Does ALA refer to Alpha Lipoic Acid, or a different supplement. Needed to be absolutely clear.

    As an aside, it seems that the sides include lethargy, as well as sweating. I have read that people take it before sleep. Is that the best time to take it? I can't stand sweating at night....
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    ALA does refer to alpha lipoic acid. You can also use milk thistle if you wish. There are health benefits associated with both. As far as the time of dosage... most people sweat while taking usnic acid or UCP-1 and would rather sweat during the evening than during the day at work or whatever they have to do. Does this help?

    WYD
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    Ala gave me a rash when i used sodium usinate (originally thought it was from the SU, but when using ala by itself i started to get the same rash) so now i use milk thisle.
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    Thanks, WYD. Yes, that does help. I have put in my order, and will also supplement with Milk Thistle or ALA.

    My strategy is to maintain my EYC stack and use UCP-1 for the two weeks recommended.

    I plan on keeping detailed notes and a spreadsheet, and will provide the results after course of cycle.

    The data I will keep are:

    Date/Time of Ingestion UCP-1

    Dose UCP-1

    Date/Time of Ingestion Other Supplements

    Dose Other Supplements

    Subjective Comments

    Can anyone suggest other data I should keep? The order should arrive next week or so, so I have some time to create a book keeping strategy.

    Thanks,

    John
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    Originally posted by John.K
    Thanks, WYD. Yes, that does help. I have put in my order, and will also supplement with Milk Thistle or ALA.

    My strategy is to maintain my EYC stack and use UCP-1 for the two weeks recommended.

    I plan on keeping detailed notes and a spreadsheet, and will provide the results after course of cycle.

    The data I will keep are:

    Date/Time of Ingestion UCP-1

    Dose UCP-1

    Date/Time of Ingestion Other Supplements

    Dose Other Supplements

    Subjective Comments

    Can anyone suggest other data I should keep? The order should arrive next week or so, so I have some time to create a book keeping strategy.

    Thanks,

    John
     

    I think the most important thing to track would be your diet.
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    Please forgive my ignorance.. But is there a transdermal UA that can be spot applied?
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    We've discussed topical UA before and came to the conclusion it will not be effective. Let me dig up the thread........
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    Found what WYD02 had to say about it :

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by whosyourdaddy02
    [B]Some more stuff to consider after discussing with NDN-Diablo

    1 UA probably wouldn't be very effective in a transdermal because of its need to get into the mitochondria of the cells to be effective.   With the proposed transdermal formula, little would be getting into the bloodstream (as I understand it. It would help a little, but not nearly as much as oral or with a different transdermal formula.

    2. NDN thought that around 500mg would be a bit too much to take in 1 application.  It would be hard to deliver that much through the skin. I'm not the transdermal expert, so if someone could elaborate on this point, I'd appreciate it.

    3. We discussed the option of using 7-keto in the formula as well; Par's new product FL7 is pretty much a transdermal 7-keto inside of PH gel. The problem is that the transdermal formula proposed above is intended for localized fat loss, 7-keto wouldn't take much effect inside of the sub-q layer.

    4. All of the ingredients proposed above have a high oral bioavailability. We really wouldn't be achieving much through a transdermal of y-hcl,ua,caffeine, and forskolin besides the potential for localized fat loss.
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    That was pretty much my first response after talking to NDN for a while about it. Since then, I have heard that there is potential for UA in a transdermal, but I have not done this research yet. I will point out two things however. There are a few products that have Y-hcl, ua, forskolin in them and are transdermals. How much of each and if the transdermal formula is effective is up in the air. I've never come across anyone trying it I don't think, so I would imagine its probably not that effective. The second thing I wanted to point out about topical UA is that there IS one study showing contact dermititis from some forest workers. Granted, this was published in 1965, but its something to consider.

    Allergy to lichens. Allergic contact dermatitis from usnic acid produced by lichenized fungi.
    --
    Mitchell JC.

    Department of Medicine (Dermatology), University of British Columbia, Vancouver.

    Two forest workers affected with allergic contact dermatitis, which occurred only during work in forest areas, showed positive patch test reactions to lichens containing usnic acid and to isolated usnic acid. Lichens are plants composed of fungi living in symbiosis with algae. Usnic acid, one of the lichenic acids which accumulates in lichenized fungi, is a monobasic acid with dibenzofuran structure and antibiotic properties. Dibenzofuran is chemically related to furocoumarans. Lichens are plentiful in temperate zone forests and allergy to usnic acid represents some part of the "cedar-poisoning" problem in British Columbia. Geographical distribution of lichens containing usnic acid suggests that allergy to usnic acid will be found to be more common than presently recognized.
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    Thanks gentlemen I thought I heard rumors of someone having success with a transdermal UA and ??? mix...
    Who better than to ask then you guys here!
    Again thank you
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    I'm thinking about taking ucp-1, and I also want to do a t1-pro 6 week cycle. How long would you guys say I need to wait to start the t1-pro cycle after using ucp-1. Is t1 very hard on the liver. The last thing I wanna do is be that skinny pale guy on a respirator, lol.
    Anyways, I'm not gonna be taking either of these for a good month, so I figured I'd ask
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    I have tried trandermal UA -- It really seems to do just about nothing
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    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting VeteranPosting Royalty

    I just added some SU to Lipoderm ODB...the equivalent of about 67 mgs per serving (8 pumps). I am applying this twice a day.

    This is day 4, and I have noticed a pretty dramatic effect on my love handle area - a bit more than ODB by itself.

    Hard to tell how much effect the SU is having by itself, but I think I will brew up the LipoUltra carrier (no other actives) and try just adding SU.
    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    BPS - Where Body meets Performance
    Flawless Skin Couture - We give you the tools to make you Flawless
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    Keep us posted, sounds interesting.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    For what its worth, I have about 120 bottles of the stuff that was made in an FDA lab for me about 2 years ago when me and WYD were selling it.

    I still think that it poses too big a risk to seel, though, as there is always that 1 dumb person out there who would take the whole bottle and complain of a stomach ache. As for myself, I take around 2 grams daily. Have been for about 3 months now with no problems at all.
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    would this be to much for a cutting stack ucp-1,yohimbolin,and stacker3 if so wich one should i eliminate
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    Wheres a good place to buy usnic acid, I can't find it anywhere.
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    Unfortunately, a few bad apples ruined it for the rest of the responsible users but hey, what else is new. I'm not sure if you can find it anywhere right now...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew D
    Good Post WYD.. I really appreciate the information on Usnic Acid.. so far the Usnic Acid appears to be working good for me.. one other question, let's say you happend to take in a larger than normal amount of fat.. would it work first on the fat you have ingested or does it still work on the stored fat in your body?

     
    Bro can u DETAIL how u are takin it & what u have lossed so far i have 2 bottles & wana try to loe about 10 lbs ,Can u suggest anything?Any help wuld b GR8! NITRO
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    Check out BB.com, there are a bunch of logs. Most users lost about 10lbs of fat in 2 weeks with dieting & cardio.

    Start out with 500mg/day in 2 split doses to test your tolerance then increase if necessary. Many have gone up to 1g or even higher. Don't take it more than 2 weeks straight without a few weeks off. 10 lbs should be easy.
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    I know www.vialsandcrimpers.com has it thinking about running it on the last 2 weeks of my bulker, is it safe to run with aas?
  

  
 

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