DHEA/ATD Log

[Sky9]

Im going to be a little bit of a guinea pig and kick start my lifting again, Im going to run 4 weeks of DHEA and ATD.



Background: About 2 months ago I tore a groin muscle pretty bad. Now that I am starting to heal up I am beginning to really get back into lifting again. I have chosen to lift using HST because of the light weights used in the beginning of the program. I am hoping that will allow me to strengthen some tendons that haven’t been used in a while and get ready for the heavy lifting ahead of me. I continued to lift while injured, but very little (2 days/week) and with very limited exercises. I managed to not re-injure myself doing this and now I am ready to start lifting hard again.



There has been some discussion about running and AI with DHEA lately and I just happened to buy some ATD and DHEA not too long ago. I have put on a little fat and lost a little muscle since my injury. I will continue with a good diet, but am looking for a little boost in my training, so I figured I would just give it a shot. I was going to taper my dosages, but none of them are very high so I think I should be ok. Here are my current ideas/stats:



Starting Stats-Oct 11, 2005
Age - 23yrs old
Starting Weight - 181lbs
Height - 5'10"
Starting Bodyfat - 15%

HST Cycle Schedule
Week 1: 1x15
Week 2: 1x15, 200mg DHEA/50mg ATD
Week 3: 2x8, 200mg DHEA/50mg ATD
Week 4: 2x8, 200mg DHEA/50mg ATD
Week 5: 3x5-7, 200mg DHEA/50mg ATD
Week 6: 3x5-7
I will be running a couple miles twice a week on my off days during this HST cycle

Diet will be around 2500cals per day with emphasis on high protein, low GI carbs, and good fats


HST Exercises
Barbell Front Squat
Barbell Stiff Leg Deadlift
Incline Dumbbell Bench
Dips (weighted)
Chin Ups (weighted)
Single Arm Dumbbell Rows
Barbell Shrugs
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Dumbbell Lateral Raises
Dumbbell Rear Delt Flies
Dumbbell Curls
Straight Bar Tricep Pushdown
Calf Raise
Push Up to Failure
Abdominals
Rest



Regular Supplements Taken
Whey Protein all day

Flax Seed Oil at night
AST Multi during the day
CNW CEE for post workout
CNW Citrulline Malate and EC stack for pre-workout
Fenugreek during the day

 

[DmitryWI]

Good luck, your log might be more useful than mine. LOL

 

[Sky9]

Thanks man, Im gonna be watching yours too, I dont have any idea the DHEA dosage needed for myself and running it with ATD I probably wont gauge much from this cycle, but Id like to see how they work together. I hear about dosages ranging from 50mgED to 4-5gED, so I guess Im pretty low by only using 200mgED, but hey, whatever, its cheap.

 

[Bigfishy]

I had fantastic results with 50mg ATD and 600 DHEA. Lost fat from the stomach and love handles and had some good strength gains.

 

[ss01]

Sky9 are you taking the DHEA orally? Are you splitting doses?

 

[Sky9]

Sky9 are you taking the DHEA orally? Are you splitting doses?

Yes, I am taking it orally. Im taking 25mgATD / 100mgDHEA once around 8am with breakfast and once around 5pm before working out. Not sure if the pre-workout is really neccessary, but whatever. I also am taking EC preworkout, which does make a difference. I have been thinking of taking all 50mg ATD at night and then just taking the DHEA at 8am and 5pm. I dont know the conversion rate of DHEA and how it interacts with and AI exactly, but i thought that by taking them together I may be able to maximize anabolic/androgenic hormones levels an hour or two after taking it. This might be completely off, wheres Dr.D when I need him???

 

[Onslaught]

DHEA has something like 3% bioavailability when used orally. It is much better suited for transdermal use.

 

[joecski]

Yes, I am taking it orally. Im taking 25mgATD / 100mgDHEA once around 8am with breakfast and once around 5pm before working out. Not sure if the pre-workout is really neccessary, but whatever. I also am taking EC preworkout, which does make a difference. I have been thinking of taking all 50mg ATD at night and then just taking the DHEA at 8am and 5pm. I dont know the conversion rate of DHEA and how it interacts with and AI exactly, but i thought that by taking them together I may be able to maximize anabolic/androgenic hormones levels an hour or two after taking it. This might be completely off, wheres Dr.D when I need him???

I hate to put words in Dr. D's mouth, but I remember another thread about DHEA where he said to take it in the morning. I think the exact quote was "DHEA in the morning and melatonin at night". I'll look for the thread, it was a long time ago, and post a link if I find it.

 

[joecski]

I hate to put words in Dr. D's mouth, but I remember another thread about DHEA where he said to take it in the morning. I think the exact quote was "DHEA in the morning and melatonin at night". I'll look for the thread, it was a long time ago, and post a link if I find it.

Found the quote. It was DR.D:
"No, don't take it at night. It works hand in hand to balance out with melatonin. You don't want it to be at high levels in you system at the same time that melatonin is, or it messes up you internal timing system. I take 100mg upon waking and again at noon. "

The thread is here:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23862&highlight=dhea+melatonin

Great discussion on DHEA and fenugreek.

 

[Sky9]

Thanks alot man, I think I will switch my dosing to RXT at night and DHEA in the morning.

 

[Moyer]

Interesting stack and another cool log Sky. Good luck man.

 

[Sky9]

Thanks Moyer, Im feeling pretty good so far, been on a slight calorie deficit so a little tired, but nothing some caffeine or ephedra cant fix, haha. I cant wait to get rid of these fecking love handles before bulking again.

 

[Sky9]

Well its been about a week now and Im done with this calorie deficit crap, Im freakin starving here. I decided to scratch the cut and just try and get into shape for heavy lifting and winter bulking. I would be stoked to see a love handle reduction, but if I have to wait till spring, whatever. On a side not I have been feeling a little more aggressive, and sex drive is definitely up. Im waiting for it to drop due to the ATD, but we'll see what happens, Ive never taken ATD before so it might not happen to me. Next week starts sets of 8 on HST and Im really looking forward to lifting a little heavier, those sets of 15 are a pain in the ass, even if they are good for you every now and then. Will update after the weekend.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

glad I caught this one, I suppose DHEA and ATD is still a 'supplement' until McCain bans it.

Goodluck!

 

[garyd85gt]

I am currently taking 50 mg. ATD with 100 mg dhea every day at 45 years old. I have noticed an increase in my blood pressure since day 2 of this combination. I was susceptible to high blood pressure on the prohormones so I don't take them, I thought this would be a good alternative to avoid that. Does anyone (Dr. D??) know if there is a relationship between these supps and increases in BP. Thanks for your time, sorry to hijack the thread.

 

[garyd85gt]

Anyone???

 

[DmitryWI]

It's very odd if it's increased your bp, first, I see no reason why DHEA or rxt would increase pb, second, I had bp issue for the last 6 months and it's actually went down, whilst using DHEA and rxt, not because of them but because of Twinlabs BP Control, Hawthorn and celery didn't help me at all though.

I am currently taking 50 mg. ATD with 100 mg dhea every day at 45 years old. I have noticed an increase in my blood pressure since day 2 of this combination. I was susceptible to high blood pressure on the prohormones so I don't take them, I thought this would be a good alternative to avoid that. Does anyone (Dr. D??) know if there is a relationship between these supps and increases in BP. Thanks for your time, sorry to hijack the thread.

 

[Sky9]

Im not too sure about the elevated blood pressure from these two compounds. I am very suseptible to this while using any pro-hormone also. However, I have not had any sign of this yet. Im actually starting my second week and noticing some changes. I have gotten a couple more pimples on my quads, which is normal for me, since this is usually the only place I get them when using any kind of test altering drug. I have noticed that I feel much more "manly" especially when in the gym and during sex. Sex drive is still way up, which is a plus. Other than that, just looking a little leaner and have lost a little weight, probably due to the ephedra, but now that I am reviewing other pre-workout stimulants and I am off a calorie deficit I expect to gain some weight over the next couple weeks, maybe a pound or two or good weight and hopefully no fat. Well, thats about it for now, will post again on this in a couple days.

 

[garyd85gt]

Thanks and keep up the great log!

 

[Sky9]

HST Week 3

Yesterday marked my first day of 2 sets of 8 reps for two weeks and it felt great. I was on AMP yesterday, but I could tell that these sets of 8 are going to be much more enjoyable than the sets of 15reps. So far I have not had much trouble with my groin either, knock on wood. I will be running today after work for a little and hit the weights again tomarrow.

 

[Sky9]

So far so good on this cycle. However, I have decided to drop the ATD down to 25mgED in an effort to gain some libido back. I have noticed a slight decrease, not bad, and certainly not enough to stop the action, but I think 25mg is enough for the rest of this log, besides, I want to save some for my M1 log later in the year.

I have definitely gotten leaner since the start of this cycle, but my weight has stayed relatively the same. At first I lost a couple pounds, but now it has been put back on, the good way.

 

[DmitryWI]

I have definitely gotten leaner since the start of this cycle, but my weight has stayed relatively the same. At first I lost a couple pounds, but now it has been put back on, the good way.

Good deal. It's exactly what happened to me. 25mg should be enough, me thinks, I lose my libido only if I go over 75mg.

 

[Sky9]

End of Cycle

Well its been about 3 weeks on this cycle of 200mgDHEA ED and 50-25mgATD ED. I have lost significant fat around my mid section and love handles as well as some of that stubborn chest fat. I am ending my cycle a little early due to my loss of libido. I thought I would be ok with using 25mg ATD, but really this stuff has changed me into a normal mannered man in bed and I really dont like that, I need to be me. So I have decided to end it a little early and keep the progress I have made.

I would recommend this stack to anyone who is cutting or wants to reduce fat. Only downside I noticed was a decrease in libido as well after week 1. During the first week my sex drive was up, but then it came down quickly after that. So with that being said here are my stats.

Starting Stats-Oct 11, 2005
Age - 23yrs old
Starting Weight - 181lbs
Height - 5'10"
Starting Bodyfat - 15%


Ending Stats-Oct 29, 2005
Age - 23yrs old
Starting Weight - 180lbs
Height - 5'10"
Starting Bodyfat - 11%


Thanks to all who followed along and helped me out with this experiment. I will definitely be using this stack again in the spring time to shed fat and get ready for summer.

 

[Alpha Dog]

Nice job with the log :goodpost:

 

[CDB]

Regular Supplements Taken
Whey Protein all day

Flax Seed Oil at night
AST Multi during the day
CNW CEE for post workout
CNW Citrulline Malate and EC stack for pre-workout
Fenugreek during the day

Might want to add cissus rx to that if you're concerned about your tendons.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

wow man... good work on the fat loss

 

[CDB]

Thanks to all who followed along and helped me out with this experiment. I will definitely be using this stack again in the spring time to shed fat and get ready for summer.

Definitely a good log, enjoyed it. If we're lucky these things will still be available in the spring.

I've been thinking of running something similar. After reading here and a couple other threads I'm thinking 150-200mg of DHEA transdermally upon waking and in the afternoon, and the ATD at night. Although, I've been tempted to wait a bit by USPs anouncement recently of a newer, friendlier AI coming out.

 

[Sky9]

Thanks, the best part is that my weight stayed about the same. First it went down a couple lbs, then back up, meaning I lost the fat, and gained some muscle. Im very happy with the results. Even after a couple days of no ATD I feel like my libido is slowly climing

 

[julius kelp]

hey sky9. everybody seems to respond differently to these things, but my libido seemed to rebound within like 2-3 days after getting off the atd. a real noticeable change. some were theorizing that the t levels remained high at this point, while the libido suppression subsided. just my experience.

 

[Sky9]

hey sky9. everybody seems to respond differently to these things, but my libido seemed to rebound within like 2-3 days after getting off the atd. a real noticeable change. some were theorizing that the t levels remained high at this point, while the libido suppression subsided. just my experience.

Seems to be my experience as well. Its only been two days and Im already starting to feel more "frisky", haha

 

[Manu20]

Is there anything that can be taken to help with the loss of libido during this stack, such as maca or fenugreek?

 

[Sky9]

Is there anything that can be taken to help with the loss of libido during this stack, such as maca or fenugreek?

Im not really sure they will do anything due to the mechanism of its libido decreasing properties, however cialis/viagra type of thing may help. Dr.D can probably answer this one for you better than me.