4-Derm, EMax & more: After exposure to extreme heat for days, can they still be good?

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    Question 4-Derm, EMax & more: After exposure to extreme heat for days, can they still be good?


    A friend of mine is a refugee who fled from hurricane Katrina over a month ago. It runs out that his supplements were kept in a vehicle for up to 5 complete days and there was no air-conditioning used during the entire time & the outside temperatures were between 95 - 99 degrees each day, the temps in the vehicle were even higher as you can imagine.

    He's already lost enough of nearly everything that he owns (including his home and his wife's car, clothes, you name it...) & he managed to pack his supplements when evacuating (knowing that many are no longer available for sale) which saved them from the flood but with the supplements being left outside in the extreme heat for days, there's a possibility that they could still be ruined. What do you all think?

    The main supplements in question which were left out in the heat are: ErgoMax, AndroPoise, Methyl-D, MOHN, M-1T, and some 4-AD Dermabolics spray "4-Derm".

    I always see that everyone was making a big deal about keeping their supplements which they stocked up on before the ban in a cool, dark place or even possibly freezing them, that makes me think that this being the complete opposite of that could have harmed the supplements.

    But I also know that when supplements are in warehouses and are then shipped via trucks -that the temperature must also get really hot during those times.

    Also to note: Other supplements such as anything in a "gel cap" type form like Omega Fish Oils, Milk Thistle, Vitamin E -they were all apparently affected by the heat quite a lot -they were all left "flimsy" -as if the contents may have evaporated leaving them flimsy and soft. This was a definite change that you can see, don't know if it makes a difference in the compounds potency but you can tell something happened. The pro-hormone's (let's call them all that for his sake) though didn't seem any different from the heat as far as the look / feel of the capsules / tablets themselves -just the gel cap type supps.

    I told him I wondered especially about the 4-Derm spray. Years ago I used PA's Androspray and it was great, in fact I suggested that my friend try it as well which is why be bought the 4-Derm in the first place. It doesn't seem like there's any less liquid in the bottles (not like it evaporated a lot), I wonder if the heat could have damaged those especially since it's a mixture of a spcific lquid to powder ratio? (at least I think that's what's mainly in it, I'm no expert as you can see).

    If anyone has any first hand info on what could happen to supps under these conditions or has a chemical background could let my friend know what you think about his supplements, please post. This hurricane has really screwed over many, many people. As you can see it can go right down to someone's "pre-ban" stockpile of pro-hormones -so many things we take for granted and wouldn't even think of while watching the news about the hurricane, it's deep. I hope my friend at least will still have his supps to use being that he has lost nearly everything else but some clothes that he also packed when leaving.Thanks.

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    Ok, I'll make this shorter....


    Ok, I'll make this short in order to get answer in case I wrote too much for everyone to go over initially:

    Would it ruin (or lessen the potency) bottles of supps like ErgoMax, M-1T, etc. for them to sit in a parked veicle for 3 - 5 days straight with temps outside in high 90's and likely over 100 degrees inside the vechile?

    Also, besides the capsules, a bottle of 4-Derm (like Ergo's old Androspray) was also left in the heat, would it fare well?

    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hushdrops
    Ok, I'll make this short in order to get answer in case I wrote too much for everyone to go over initially:

    Would it ruin (or lessen the potency) bottles of supps like ErgoMax, M-1T, etc. for them to sit in a parked veicle for 3 - 5 days straight with temps outside in high 90's and likely over 100 degrees inside the vechile?

    Also, besides the capsules, a bottle of 4-Derm (like Ergo's old Androspray) was also left in the heat, would it fare well?

    Thanks!
    I would have to say the heat probably did some harm to them. Heat like that can alter the chemical structure of supplements, making them less effective. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't use them, just don't expect them to work as good. Sorry dude!
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    I always wondered how bad it was for supplements to be exposed to (scientifically) marginal heat increases, when we dump the same (and AAS) in boiling water for oral solutions/trandermals, or heat sterilize with no apparent problems. In other words, 100 degrees F is a lot less than 100 degrees C, and yet we make oral solutions, transdermals, and injectables all of the time at these high temps with no problems.
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    I agree in that it may have likely weekened the compounds. What's so bad is that normally one could just re-purchase everything (heck, since it's related to the hurricane it could be covered under my friend's homeowner's policy -could you miagine telling your adjuster that your M-1T went bad due to no power after the storm and you want it replcaed? ha!)........

    But in this case most of the compounds (extra valuable to him is the 4-AD spray which goes nicely with many other compounds) cannot be purchased at this time, really blows.

    Maybe somone on the board with a "chemical background" could drop a line here on this subject? Please?
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    If I were you I would email the manufacturers, at least ALRI on the E...MAX.
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    it really depends on the compounds themselves. How reactive to heat are these compounds? This is a serious question because I myself am not a chemist. If I were to guess, I would say that they are likely to be safe for now, and I would be more concerned about humidity than the heat. Moist product is much worse than warm product from what I do know.
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    Well, how come when we heat bake our conversion experiments, it doesn't hurt the chemical structure of TEST, yet 4AD is ruined from 100 degrees?

    I don't have any answers here--wish someone with a chemical background would chime in.
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    Getting feedback from a supp company: could have avoided the need for this thread


    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf
    If I were you I would email the manufacturers, at least ALRI on the E...MAX.
    Yes, that's a good idea. I did email ALRI (usign the Contact Us email address from their site) but they haven't responded yet. I was hoping on getting a response from one of the supplement companies instead of having to start a thread on the message boards.
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    I bet the 4AD is fine. If it is structurally similar to test base, it should be stable up to about 300 degrees:

    Hormone Melting Points

    That's assuming there is no reaction with the other ingredients in the transdermal.... I doubt there are though, because hormones like 1-test require a hot water bath to get them into solution. So they should be fine.

    As for the other orals, I'm not sure. I'd probably still give them a shot if they were mine, but to each and his own. You never know what could have happened to them. I personally think the chance that something toxic was created during the heating process is very slim.

    Besides, these supplements are shipped into hot regions of the country all the time. I would assume that this would mean they would have been exposed to that degree of heat before..... I really don't think there is much to be concerned about.
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    Still waiting to hear from ALRI...


    Update:

    We are still waiting to hear back from ALRI (we used the contact-us info provided on their web site to send them a message) as of Oct. 17.
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