Who Wastes Money on Glutamine?

[YellowJacket]

Well this original thread came up missing So Im going to repost it


Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

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J Strength Cond Res 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60
The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance

Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C.

Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, USA.

The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean +/- SE: age, 21.5 +/- 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 +/- 2.8 kg(-1)) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g x kg(-1)) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.

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Int J Sports Med 2000 Jan;21(1):25-30 Related Articles, Links


The effect of free glutamine and peptide ingestion on the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis in man.

van Hall G, Saris WH, van de Schoor PA, Wagenmakers AJ.

Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, The Netherlands. [email protected]

The present study investigated previous claims that ingestion of glutamine and of protein-carbohydrate mixtures may increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis following intense exercise. Eight trained subjects were studied during 3 h of recovery while consuming one of four drinks in random order. Drinks were ingested in three 500 ml boluses, immediately after exercise and then after 1 and 2 h of recovery. Each bolus of the control drink contained 0.8 g x kg(-1) body weight of glucose. The other drinks contained the same amount of glucose and 0.3 g x kg(-1) body weight of 1) glutamine, 2) a wheat hydrolysate (26% glutamine) and 3) a whey hydrolysate (6.6% glutamine). Plasma glutamine, decreased by approximately 20% during recovery with ingestion of the control drink, no changes with ingestion of the protein hydrolysates drinks, and a 2-fold increase with ingestion of the free glutamine drinks. The rate of glycogen resynthesis was not significantly different in the four tests: 28 +/- 5, 26 +/- 6, 33 +/- 4, and 34 +/- 3 mmol glucosyl units x kg(-1) dry weight muscle x h(-1) for the control, glutamine, wheat- and whey hydrolysate ingestion, respectively. It is concluded that ingestion of a glutamine/carbohydrate mixture does not increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis in muscle. Glycogen resynthesis rates were higher, although not statistically significant, after ingestion of the drink containing the wheat (21 +/- 8%) and whey protein hydrolysate (20 +/- 6%) compared to ingestion of the control and free glutamine drinks, implying that further research is needed on the potential protein effect.

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Metabolism 2000 Dec;49(12):1555-60 Related Articles, Links


Intravenous glutamine does not stimulate mixed muscle protein synthesis in healthy young men and women.

Zachwieja JJ, Witt TL, Yarasheski KE.

Exercise and Nutrition Program, Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, LA, USA.

We investigated the effects of a glutamine-supplemented amino acid mixture on vastus lateralis muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women. Three men and 3 women (27.8 +/- 2.0 yr, 22.2 +/- 1.0 body mass index [BMI], 56.1 +/- 4.5 kg lean body mass [LBM]) received a 14-hour primed, constant intravenous infusion of L[1-13C]leucine to evaluate the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis. In addition to tracer administration, a clinically relevant amino acid mixture supplemented with either glutamine or glycine in amounts isonitrogenous to glutamine, was infused. Amino acid mixtures were infused on separate occasions in random order at a rate of 0.04 g/kg/h (glutamine at approximately 0.01 g/kg/h) with at least 2 weeks between treatment. For 2 days before and on the day of an infusion, dietary intake was controlled so that each subject received 1.5 g protein/kg/d. Compared with our previous report in the postabsorptive state, amino acid infusion increased the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis by 48% (P < .05); however, the addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture did not further elevate muscle protein synthesis rate (ie, 0.071% +/- 0.008%/h for amino acids + glutamine v 0.060% +/- 0.008%/h for amino acids + glycine; P = .316). Plasma glutamine concentrations were higher (P < .05) during the glutamine-supplemented infusion, but free intramuscular glutamine levels were not increased (P = .363). Both plasma and free intramuscular glycine levels were increased when extra glycine was included in the infused amino acid mixture (both P < .0001). We conclude that intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women.

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J Appl Physiol 2002 Sep;93(3):813-22 Related Articles, Links


Exercise-induced immunodepression- plasma glutamine is not the link.

Hiscock N, Pedersen BK.

Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre and Department of Infectious Diseases, Rigshospitalet, University of Copenhagen, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark.

The amino acid glutamine is known to be important for the function of some immune cells in vitro. It has been proposed that the decrease in plasma glutamine concentration in relation to catabolic conditions, including prolonged, exhaustive exercise, results in a lack of glutamine for these cells and may be responsible for the transient immunodepression commonly observed after acute, exhaustive exercise. It has been unclear, however, whether the magnitude of the observed decrease in plasma glutamine concentration would be great enough to compromise the function of immune cells. In fact, intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA. It is concluded that, although the glutamine hypothesis may explain immunodepression related to other stressful conditions such as trauma and burn, plasma glutamine concentration is not likely to play a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immunodepression

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Effect of glutamine and protein supplementation on exercise-induced decreases in salivary IgA.

Krzywkowski K, Petersen EW, Ostrowski K, Link-Amster H, Boza J, Halkjaer-Kristensen J, Pedersen BK.

The Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre, Rigshospitalet, 2200 Copenhagen, Denmark.

Postexercise immune impairment has been linked to exercise-induced decrease in plasma glutamine concentration. This study examined the possibility of abolishing the exercise-induced decrease in salivary IgA through glutamine supplementation during and after intense exercise. Eleven athletes performed cycle ergometer exercise for 2 h at 75% of maximal oxygen uptake on 3 separate days. Glutamine (a total of 17.5 g), protein (a total of 68.5 g/6.2 g protein-bound glutamine), and placebo supplements were given during and up to 2 h after exercise. Unstimulated, timed saliva samples were obtained before exercise and 20 min, 140 min, 4 h, and 22 h postexercise. The exercise protocol induced a decrease in salivary IgA (IgA concentration, IgA output, and IgA relative to total protein). The plasma concentration of glutamine was decreased by 15% 2 h postexercise in the placebo group, whereas this decline was abolished by both glutamine and protein supplements.None of the supplements, however, was able to abolish the decline in salivary IgA. This study does not support that postexercise decrease in salivary IgA is related to plasma glutamine concentrations.

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Effect of carb intake on plasma glutamine

Int J Sport Nutr 1998 Mar;8(1):49-59 Related Articles, Links


Effect of low- and high-carbohydrate diets on the plasma glutamine and circulating leukocyte responses to exercise.

Gleeson M, Blannin AK, Walsh NP, Bishop NC, Clark AM.

School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, England.

We examined the effects of a low-carbohydrate (CHO) diet on the plasma glutamine and circulating leukocyte responses to prolonged strenuous exercise. Twelve untrained male subjects cycled for 60 min at 70% of maximal oxygen uptake on two separate occasions, 3 days apart. All subjects performed the first exercise task after a normal diet; they completed the second exercise task after 3 days on either a high-CHO diet (75 +/- 8% CHO, n = 6) or a low-CHO diet (7 +/- 4% CHO, n = 6). The low-CHO diet was associated with a larger rise in plasma cortisol during exercise, a greater fall in the plasma glutamine concentration during recovery, and a larger neutrophilia during the postexercise period. Exercise on the high-CHO diet did not affect levels of plasma glutamine and circulating leukocytes. We conclude that CHO availability can influence the plasma glutamine and circulating leukocyte responses during recovery from intense prolonged exercise.

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Clin Nutr 2002 Oct;21(5):423-9 Related Articles, Links


Carbohydrate supplementation during intense exercise and the immune response of cyclists.

Bacurau RF, Bassit RA, Sawada L, Navarro F, Martins E Jr, Costa Rosa LF.

Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Institute of Biomedical Sciences, University of Sao Paulo, Brazil.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of carbohydrate supplementation upon some aspects of the immune function in athletes during intense indoor cycling. METHODS: Twelve male athletes cycled for 20 min at a velocity corresponding to 90% of that obtained at the anaerobic threshold and rested for 20 min. This protocol was repeated six times. The athletes received, during the trial, water ad libitum, or a solution of carbohydrate (95% glucose polymers and 5% fructose) at 10% (w/v), 1 g kg h every 20 min, starting at the 10th minute of the first exercise period, plus extra water ad libitum. RESULTS: Exercise induced a reduction in peripheral blood mononuclear cell proliferation (37%) as well as in the production of cytokines by cultured cells (interleukin-1 (IL-1), interleukin-2 (IL-2), tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) and interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma), by 37%, 35%, 26% and 16%, respectively). All of these changes were prevented by the ingestion of a carbohydrate drink by the athletes, except that in IFN-gamma production, which was equally decreased (17%) after the second trial. The concentration of plasma glutamine, an important fuel for immune cells, was decreased in the placebo group but maintained in the group that received carbohydrate. CONCLUSION: Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration

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An excerpt from "Appetite For Construction
Building Results From Research"
by John M. Berardi

Should I Spend my Hard-Earned Money on Glutamine or Hookers?

.... A high protein diet provides a big whack of glutamine as it is. In fact, if you follow standard bodybuilding protein recommendations, about 10% of your total dietary protein intake is composed of glutamine (milk proteins are composed of somewhere between 3 — 10% glutamine while meat is composed of about 15% glutamine). This means that a high protein diet (400g/day) already provides me with about 40g of glutamine.

• While the theorists still cling to the idea that since glutamine helps clinical stress, it might help with exercise stress, it‚s important to note that exercise stress has got nothin‚ on surgery, cancer, sepsis, burns, etc. For example, when compared with downhill running or weight lifting, urinary nitrogen loss is 15x (1400%) greater in minor surgery, 25x (2400%) greater in major surgery, and 33x (3200%) greater in sepsis. When it comes to the immune response, it‚s about 9x (800%) greater with surgery. When it comes to metabolic increase, it‚s 7x (600%) greater with burn injury, and when it comes to creatine kinase release; it‚s about 2x (100%) greater with surgery. As I said, exercise has got nothin‚ on real, clinical stress. It‚s like trying to compare the damage inflicted by a peashooter and that inflicted by a rocket launcher.

• The major studies examining glutamine supplementation in otherwise healthy weightlifters have shown no effect. In the study by Candow et al (2001), 0.9g of supplemental glutamine/kg/day had no impact on muscle performance, body composition, and protein degradation. Folks, that's 90g per day for some lifters.

• The majority of the studies using glutamine supplementation in endurance athletes have shown little to no measurable benefit on performance or immune function.

• And with respect to glycogen replenishment in endurance athletes, it's interesting to note that the first study that looked at glycogen resynthesis using glutamine missed a couple of things. Basically, the study showed that after a few glycogen depleting hours of cycling at a high percentage of VO2 max interspersed with very intense cycle sprints that were supramaximal, a drink containing 8g of glutamine replenished glycogen to the same extent as a drink containing 61g of carbohydrate.

The problem was that during the recovery period, a constant IV infusion of labeled glucose was given (i.e., a little bit of glucose was given to both groups by IV infusion). While this isn't too big of a deal on its own since the infusion only provided a couple of grams of glucose, the other problem is that during glycogen depleting exercise, a lot of alanine, lactate, and other gluconeogenic precursors are released from the muscle.

What this means is that there's a good amount of glucose that will be formed after such exercise, glucose that will be made in the liver from the gluconeogenic precursors and that will travel to the muscle to replenish glycogen. Therefore, without a placebo group that receives no calories, carbohydrates, or glutamine, we have no idea of knowing whether or not the placebo would have generated the same amount of glycogen replenishment as the glutamine group or the glutamine plus carbohydrate group. To say it another way, perhaps there's a normal glycogen replenishment curve that was unaffected by any of the treatments.

• And finally, with respect to the claims that glutamine might increase cell swelling/volume (something I once believed was a reality), we decided to test this theory out in our lab using multifrequency bioelectric impedance analysis as well as magnetic resonance spectroscopy. The pilot data that's kicking around has demonstrated that glutamine supplementation has no effect on total body water, intracellular fluid volumes, or extracellular fluid volumes (as measured by mBIA) and has no effect on muscle volume (as measured by nMRS)...

 

[windwords7]

Do not **** with this thread. I mean it.

 

[Nelson]

YJ the anti-glutaminist

 

[John Benz]

Money on glutamine is well spent

Glutamine increases cell volume which increases protein synthesis, thats ideal for adding muscle mass(or bulking).

Studies show that adding glutamine to protein supplements increases protein synthesis more than protein alone.

For a serious bodybuilder, there is nothing non-essential about glutamine. The research is more than conclusive that the levels of glutamine (and cysteine) are chemical determinants of whether you will lose or gain muscle mass.

Kinscherf.R et al. Low plasma glutamine in combination with high glutamine levels indicate risk for loss of body cell mass in healthy individuals: the effect of N-acetyl-cysteine. J.Mol.Med. vol 74:393-400 1996.

when our body doesn't get enough, musle mass is lost in large amounts.

Droge.W. and Holm.E. Role of cysteine and glutathione in HIV infection and other diseases associated with muscle wasting and immunological dysfunction.FASEB J.11:1077-1089,1997.

Hack.V et al. Cystine levels, cystine flux, and protein catabolism in cancer cachexia, HIV/SIV infection and senescence. FASEB J. 11:84-92 1997.

"The other 10(9 in infants) are called inessential amino acids - not because the body does not require them, buy because it CAN synthesis its own WHEN THE DIET DOES NOT SUPPLY THEM. Cells do not store surplus amino acids for later use. When a protein is to be synthesized, all of the amino acids necssary MUST be present at once, and if even on is missing, the protein cannot be made."
-- saladin; Anatopmy & Physiology: The unity of form and function. p992

recent research has demonstrated that adding glutamine to two isocaloric /isoprotein diets increased protein synthesis within muscle tissue. The diet without glutamine only increased rates in intestinal cells.

You can argue whether or not the supplemental glutamine was used by the intesitine or acutally made it to muscle tissue, but the result is the same. Added glutamine increased protein synthesis, and obviously wasn't "wasted"

Nutrition 2001 Jan;17(1):35-40

Theres much more evidence for glutamine supplementation than there is against.


Bowtell, J. L., K. Gelly, M. L. Jackman, A. Patel, M.
Simeoni, and M. J. Rennie. Effect of oral glutamine on
whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive
exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 86(6): 1770–1777, 1999.—The
purpose of this study was to determine the efficacy of glutamine
in promoting whole body carbohydrate storage and
muscle glycogen resynthesis during recovery from exhaustive
exercise. Postabsorptive subjects completed a glycogendepleting
exercise protocol, then consumed 330 ml of one of
three drinks, 18.5% (wt/vol) glucose polymer solution, 8 g
glutamine in 330 ml glucose polymer solution, or 8 g glutamine
in 330 ml placebo, and also received a primed constant
infusion of [1-13C]glucose for 2 h. Plasma glutamine concentration
was increased after consumption of the glutamine drinks
(0.7–1.1 mM, P , 0.05). In the second hour of recovery, whole
body nonoxidative glucose disposal was increased by 25%
after consumption of glutamine in addition to the glucose
polymer (4.48 6 0.61 vs. 3.59 6 0.18 mmol/kg, P , 0.05). Oral
glutamine alone promoted storage of muscle glycogen to an
extent similar to oral glucose polymer. Ingestion of glutamine
and glucose polymer together promoted the storage of carbohydrate
outside of skeletal muscle, the most feasible site
being the liver.


<<< Strength Cond Res 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60
The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance>>


Effect of glutamine supplementation of the diet on tissue protein synthesis rate of glucocorticoid-treated rats.

Boza JJ, Turini M, Moennoz D, Montigon F, Vuichoud J, Gueissaz N, Gremaud G, Pouteau E, Piguet-Welsch C, Finot PA, Ballevre O.

Nestle Research Center, Vers-chez-les-Blanc, 1000 Lausanne 26, Switzerland. [email protected]

Although glutamine status in the critically ill patient can be improved by nutritional means, the most effective way of effecting such supplementation has received little attention. We evaluated two different ways of supplementing clinical nutrition products with glutamine, either with free glutamine or by providing a glutamine-rich protein source, in acute glucocorticoid-treated (intraperitoneal dexamethasone, 120 mg/kg) rats. During the recovery period, the animals received isonitrogenous and isoenergetic diets containing either casein, mixed whey proteins with or without glutamine, or carob protein plus essential amino acids. Plasma and tissue amino acids and glutathione as well as tissue protein synthesis were measured. Dexamethasone treatment lowered weight gain, muscle glutamine, and muscle and jejunal protein synthetic rate. Muscle protein synthesis was increased (from 15.9% to 24.2%/d) only when glutamine was included in the diet as a free amino acid. This increase paralleled a rise in plasma glutamine. We speculate that glutamine provided in dietary protein is extensively metabolized by the splanchnic tissues and does not influence peripheral glutamine status to the same extent as glutamine provided in a free amino acid form. However, both forms of glutamine supplementation were equally effective in increasing protein synthesis in the jejunum (by 25%). This is likely the main benefit of glutamine supplementation of enteral nutrition formulas.



Kinscherf R, Hack V, Fischbach T, Friedmann B, Weiss C, Edler L, Bartsch P, Droge W.
Low plasma glutamine in combination with high glutamate levels indicate risk for loss of body cell mass in healthy individuals: the effect of N-acetyl-cysteine.



Division of Immunochemistry, Deutsches Krebsforschungszentrum, Heidelberg, Germany.

Skeletal muscle catabolism, low plasma glutamine, and high venous glutamate levels are common among patients with cancer or human immunodeficiency virus infection. In addition, a high glycolytic activity is commonly found in muscle tissue of cachectic cancer patients, suggesting insufficient mitochondrial energy metabolism. We therefore investigated (a) whether an "an-aerobic physical exercise" program causes similar changes in plasma amino acid levels,
and (b) whether low plasma glutamine or high glutamate levels are risk factors for loss of body cell mass (BCM) in healthy human subjects, i.e., in the absence of a tumor or virus infection. Longitudinal measurements from healthy subjects over longer periods suggest that the age-related loss of BCM occur mainly during episodes with high venous glutamate levels, indicative of decreased muscular transport activity for glutamate. A significant increase in venous glutamate levels from 25 to about 40 microM was seen after a program of "anaerobic physical exercise." This was associated with changes in T lymphocyte numbers. Under these conditions persons with low baseline levels of plasma glutamine, arginine, and cystine levels also showed a loss of BCM. This loss of BCM was correlated not only with the amino acid levels at baseline examination, but also with an increase in plasma glutamine, arginine, and cystine levels during the observation period, suggesting that a loss of BCM in healthy individuals terminates itself by adjusting these amino acids to higher levels that stabilize BCM. To test a possible regulatory role of cysteine in this context we determined the effect of N-acetyl-cysteine on BCM in a group of subjects with relatively low glutamine levels. The placebo group of this study showed a loss of BCM and an increase in body fat, suggesting that body protein had been converted into other forms of chemical energy. The decrease in mean BCM/body fat ratios was prevented by N-acetyl-cysteine, indicating that cysteine indeed plays a regulatory role in the physiological control of BCM.



Julio J. Boza, Martial Dangin, Denis Moënnoz, Franck Montigon, Jacques Vuichoud, Andrée Jarret, Etienne Pouteau, Gerard Gremaud, Sylviane Oguey-Araymon, Didier Courtois, Alfred Woupeyi, Paul-André Finot, and Olivier Ballèvre
Free and protein-bound glutamine have identical splanchnic extraction in healthy human volunteers
Am J Physiol Gastrointest Liver Physiol 281: G267-G274, 2001

The objectives of the present study were to determine the splanchnic extraction of glutamine after ingestion of glutamine-rich protein (15N-labeled oat proteins) and to compare it with that of free glutamine and to determine de novo glutamine synthesis before and after glutamine consumption. Eight healthy adults were infused intravenously in the postabsorptive state with L-[1-13C]glutamine (3 µmol · kg-1 · h-1) and L-[1-13C]lysine (1.5 µmol · kg-1 · h-1) for 8 h. Four hours after the beginning of the infusion, subjects consumed (every 20 min) a liquid formula providing either 2.5 g of protein from 15N-labeled oat proteins or a mixture of free amino acids that mimicked the oat-amino acid profile and contained L-[2,5-15N2]glutamine and L-[2-15N]lysine. Splanchnic extraction of glutamine reached 62.5 ± 5.0% and 66.7 ± 3.9% after administration of 15N-labeled oat proteins and the mixture of free amino acids, respectively. Lysine splanchnic extraction was also not different (40.9 ± 11.9% and 34.9 ± 10.6% for 15N-labeled oat proteins and free amino acids, respectively). The main conclusion of the present study is that glutamine is equally bioavailable when given enterally as a free amino acid and when protein bound. Therefore, and taking into consideration the drawbacks of free glutamine supplementation of ready-to-use formulas for enteral nutrition, protein sources naturally rich in this amino acid are the best option for providing stable glutamine.



Mittendorfer, E. Volpi, and R. R. Wolfe
Whole body and skeletal muscle glutamine metabolism in healthy subjects
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 280: E323-E333, 2001.

We measured glutamine kinetics using L-[5-15N]glutamine and L-[ring-2H5]phenylalanine infusions in healthy subjects in the postabsorptive state and during ingestion of an amino acid mixture that included glutamine, alone or with additional glucose. Ingestion of the amino acid mixture increased arterial glutamine concentrations by ~20% (not by 30%; P < 0.05), irrespective of the presence or absence of glucose. Muscle free glutamine concentrations remained unchanged during ingestion of amino acids alone but decreased from 21.0 ± 1.0 to 16.4 ± 1.6 mmol/l (P < 0.05) during simultaneous ingestion of glucose due to a decrease in intramuscular release from protein breakdown and glutamine synthesis (0.82 ± 0.10 vs. 0.59 ± 0.06 µmol · 100 ml leg-1 · min-1; P < 0.05). In both protocols, muscle glutamine inward and outward transport and muscle glutamine utilization for protein synthesis increased during amino acid ingestion; leg glutamine net balance remained unchanged. In summary, ingestion of an amino acid mixture that includes glutamine increases glutamine availability and uptake by skeletal muscle in healthy subjects without causing an increase in the intramuscular free glutamine pool. Simultaneous ingestion of glucose diminishes the intramuscular glutamine concentration despite increased glutamine availability in the blood due to decreased glutamine production.

 

[YellowJacket]

Re: Money on glutamine is well spent

when our body doesn't get enough, musle mass is lost in large amounts.

LMAO! Losti n large amounts huh? Like what? 3lbs a minute?

Droge.W. and Holm.E. Role of cysteine and glutathione in HIV infection and other diseases associated with muscle wasting and immunological dysfunction.FASEB J.11:1077-1089,1997.

Hack.V et al. Cystine levels, cystine flux, and protein catabolism in cancer cachexia, HIV/SIV infection and senescence. FASEB J. 11:84-92 1997.

Do these have attached articles? or are they randon citations?

"The other 10(9 in infants) are called inessential amino acids - not because the body does not require them, buy because it CAN synthesis its own WHEN THE DIET DOES NOT SUPPLY THEM. Cells do not store surplus amino acids for later use. When a protein is to be synthesized, all of the amino acids necssary MUST be present at once, and if even on is missing, the protein cannot be made."
-- saladin; Anatopmy & Physiology: The unity of form and function. p992

Not much relevance to support glutamine supplementation. After all, cottage cheese, beans, milk, protein powder, etc. all contain solid amounts of glutamine.

recent research has demonstrated that adding glutamine to two isocaloric /isoprotein diets increased protein synthesis within muscle tissue. The diet without glutamine only increased rates in intestinal cells.

Sorry, this was dismissed above.

You can argue whether or not the supplemental glutamine was used by the intesitine or acutally made it to muscle tissue, but the result is the same. Added glutamine increased protein synthesis, and obviously wasn't "wasted"

Says who? some random guy? Im sure he works for EAS though.

Theres much more evidence for glutamine supplementation than there is against.

Sorry once again, afraid not.

Bowtell, J. L., K. Gelly, M. L. Jackman, A. Patel, M.
Simeoni, and M. J. Rennie. Effect of oral glutamine on
whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive
exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 86(6): 1770–1777, 1999.—The
purpose of this study was to determine the efficacy of glutamine
in promoting whole body carbohydrate storage and
muscle glycogen resynthesis during recovery from exhaustive
exercise. Postabsorptive subjects completed a glycogendepleting
exercise protocol, then consumed 330 ml of one of
three drinks, 18.5% (wt/vol) glucose polymer solution, 8 g
glutamine in 330 ml glucose polymer solution, or 8 g glutamine
in 330 ml placebo, and also received a primed constant
infusion of [1-13C]glucose for 2 h. Plasma glutamine concentration
was increased after consumption of the glutamine drinks
(0.7–1.1 mM, P , 0.05). In the second hour of recovery, whole
body nonoxidative glucose disposal was increased by 25%
after consumption of glutamine in addition to the glucose
polymer (4.48 6 0.61 vs. 3.59 6 0.18 mmol/kg, P , 0.05). Oral
glutamine alone promoted storage of muscle glycogen to an
extent similar to oral glucose polymer. Ingestion of glutamine
and glucose polymer together promoted the storage of carbohydrate
outside of skeletal muscle, the most feasible site
being the liver.

This was dismissed above also, but this is for LIVER glycogen replacement, no where near as essential as muscle glycogen replacement.

Effect of glutamine supplementation of the diet on tissue protein synthesis rate of glucocorticoid-treated rats.

Boza JJ, Turini M, Moennoz D, Montigon F, Vuichoud J, Gueissaz N, Gremaud G, Pouteau E, Piguet-Welsch C, Finot PA, Ballevre O.

Nestle Research Center, Vers-chez-les-Blanc, 1000 Lausanne 26, Switzerland. [email protected]

Although glutamine status in the critically ill patient can be improved by nutritional means, the most effective way of effecting such supplementation has received little attention. We evaluated two different ways of supplementing clinical nutrition products with glutamine, either with free glutamine or by providing a glutamine-rich protein source, in acute glucocorticoid-treated (intraperitoneal dexamethasone, 120 mg/kg) rats. During the recovery period, the animals received isonitrogenous and isoenergetic diets containing either casein, mixed whey proteins with or without glutamine, or carob protein plus essential amino acids. Plasma and tissue amino acids and glutathione as well as tissue protein synthesis were measured. Dexamethasone treatment lowered weight gain, muscle glutamine, and muscle and jejunal protein synthetic rate. Muscle protein synthesis was increased (from 15.9% to 24.2%/d) only when glutamine was included in the diet as a free amino acid. This increase paralleled a rise in plasma glutamine. We speculate that glutamine provided in dietary protein is extensively metabolized by the splanchnic tissues and does not influence peripheral glutamine status to the same extent as glutamine provided in a free amino acid form. However, both forms of glutamine supplementation were equally effective in increasing protein synthesis in the jejunum (by 25%). This is likely the main benefit of glutamine supplementation of enteral nutrition formulas.

This was also dismissed above. It says in the article that nutritonal provided glutamine is a good way to replace lost glutamine stores, no need buy extra and get robbed.

Kinscherf R, Hack V, Fischbach T, Friedmann B, Weiss C, Edler L, Bartsch P, Droge W.
Low plasma glutamine in combination with high glutamate levels indicate risk for loss of body cell mass in healthy individuals: the effect of N-acetyl-cysteine.

Division of Immunochemistry, Deutsches Krebsforschungszentrum, Heidelberg, Germany.

Skeletal muscle catabolism, low plasma glutamine, and high venous glutamate levels are common among patients with cancer or human immunodeficiency virus infection. In addition, a high glycolytic activity is commonly found in muscle tissue of cachectic cancer patients, suggesting insufficient mitochondrial energy metabolism. We therefore investigated (a) whether an "an-aerobic physical exercise" program causes similar changes in plasma amino acid levels,
and (b) whether low plasma glutamine or high glutamate levels are risk factors for loss of body cell mass (BCM) in healthy human subjects, i.e., in the absence of a tumor or virus infection. Longitudinal measurements from healthy subjects over longer periods suggest that the age-related loss of BCM occur mainly during episodes with high venous glutamate levels, indicative of decreased muscular transport activity for glutamate. A significant increase in venous glutamate levels from 25 to about 40 microM was seen after a program of "anaerobic physical exercise." This was associated with changes in T lymphocyte numbers. Under these conditions persons with low baseline levels of plasma glutamine, arginine, and cystine levels also showed a loss of BCM. This loss of BCM was correlated not only with the amino acid levels at baseline examination, but also with an increase in plasma glutamine, arginine, and cystine levels during the observation period, suggesting that a loss of BCM in healthy individuals terminates itself by adjusting these amino acids to higher levels that stabilize BCM. To test a possible regulatory role of cysteine in this context we determined the effect of N-acetyl-cysteine on BCM in a group of subjects with relatively low glutamine levels. The placebo group of this study showed a loss of BCM and an increase in body fat, suggesting that body protein had been converted into other forms of chemical energy. The decrease in mean BCM/body fat ratios was prevented by N-acetyl-cysteine, indicating that cysteine indeed plays a regulatory role in the physiological control of BCM.

Once again, this is based around sick, or immunodepressive individuals, how comparable are the immune systems of a weight training athlete to an AIDS patient? Hmm

Julio J. Boza, Martial Dangin, Denis Moënnoz, Franck Montigon, Jacques Vuichoud, Andrée Jarret, Etienne Pouteau, Gerard Gremaud, Sylviane Oguey-Araymon, Didier Courtois, Alfred Woupeyi, Paul-André Finot, and Olivier Ballèvre
Free and protein-bound glutamine have identical splanchnic extraction in healthy human volunteers
Am J Physiol Gastrointest Liver Physiol 281: G267-G274, 2001

The objectives of the present study were to determine the splanchnic extraction of glutamine after ingestion of glutamine-rich protein (15N-labeled oat proteins) and to compare it with that of free glutamine and to determine de novo glutamine synthesis before and after glutamine consumption. Eight healthy adults were infused intravenously in the postabsorptive state with L-[1-13C]glutamine (3 µmol · kg-1 · h-1) and L-[1-13C]lysine (1.5 µmol · kg-1 · h-1) for 8 h. Four hours after the beginning of the infusion, subjects consumed (every 20 min) a liquid formula providing either 2.5 g of protein from 15N-labeled oat proteins or a mixture of free amino acids that mimicked the oat-amino acid profile and contained L-[2,5-15N2]glutamine and L-[2-15N]lysine. Splanchnic extraction of glutamine reached 62.5 ± 5.0% and 66.7 ± 3.9% after administration of 15N-labeled oat proteins and the mixture of free amino acids, respectively. Lysine splanchnic extraction was also not different (40.9 ± 11.9% and 34.9 ± 10.6% for 15N-labeled oat proteins and free amino acids, respectively).The main conclusion of the present study is that glutamine is equally bioavailable when given enterally as a free amino acid and when protein bound. Therefore, and taking into consideration the drawbacks of free glutamine supplementation of ready-to-use formulas for enteral nutrition, protein sources naturally rich in this amino acid are the best option for providing stable glutamine.

I agree. So why not get a decent protein supplement rich in glutamine and not waste your money on extra glutamine that your body doesnt even absorb?

Mittendorfer, E. Volpi, and R. R. Wolfe
Whole body and skeletal muscle glutamine metabolism in healthy subjects
Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 280: E323-E333, 2001.

We measured glutamine kinetics using L-[5-15N]glutamine and L-[ring-2H5]phenylalanine infusions in healthy subjects in the postabsorptive state and during ingestion of an amino acid mixture that included glutamine, alone or with additional glucose. Ingestion of the amino acid mixture increased arterial glutamine concentrations by ~20% (not by 30%; P < 0.05), irrespective of the presence or absence of glucose. Muscle free glutamine concentrations remained unchanged during ingestion of amino acids alone but decreased from 21.0 ± 1.0 to 16.4 ± 1.6 mmol/l (P < 0.05) during simultaneous ingestion of glucose due to a decrease in intramuscular release from protein breakdown and glutamine synthesis (0.82 ± 0.10 vs. 0.59 ± 0.06 µmol · 100 ml leg-1 · min-1; P < 0.05). In both protocols, muscle glutamine inward and outward transport and muscle glutamine utilization for protein synthesis increased during amino acid ingestion; leg glutamine net balance remained unchanged. In summary, ingestion of an amino acid mixture that includes glutamine increases glutamine availability and uptake by skeletal muscle in healthy subjects without causing an increase in the intramuscular free glutamine pool. Simultaneous ingestion of glucose diminishes the intramuscular glutamine concentration despite increased glutamine availability in the blood due to decreased glutamine production.

LoL...thats a shrewd observation. But again, this is why a protein supplement is needed. Whey protein covers each and every factor here, and then some...


All in all Im very proud of you for getting away from T-Mag articles, this is certainly a step up, still way off, but coming along.

 

[John Benz]

Your stating your opinion, which is worthless. Refute me with proof. None of your statements disprove anything. Nor do your articles on "young adults." Try harder, you aren't even close.

 

[YellowJacket]

Your stating your opinion, which is worthless. Refute me with proof. None of your statements disprove anything. Nor do your articles on "young adults." Try harder, you aren't even close.

Umm... yea. I think you know better. You must have forgotten to read the articles in this thread aye? They refute everything you posted....and then some. You're far behind, you're battling a lost cause.

 

[John Benz]

If you say so, sonny.

 

[RippedForce]

Glutamine seems kind of like ZMA to me. It sounds great on paper but after weeks of use I did not notice any difference whatsoever. I'm gonna lean towards Yellowjacket here, only from personal experience. Even if either of them did anything, I probably wont be buying them again because they are not worth the money to me. Not that what I said disproves/proves anything though.

 

[pogue]

L.R. BRILLA AND VICTOR CONTE. Effects of a Novel Zinc-Magnesium Formulation on Hormones and Strength. JEPonline, 3(4): 26-36, 2000. Muscle attributes and selected blood hormones of football players were assessed in response to a nightly supplementation regimen during spring football, over an 8-week period, with pre-post measures. A double-blind randomized study was conducted with ZMA (30 mg zinc monomethionine aspartate, 450 mg magnesium aspartate, and 10.5 mg of vitamin B-6) and placebo (P), n=12 and n=15, respectively. Plasma zinc and magnesium levels were ZMA (0.80 to 1.04 g/ml; 19.43 to 20.63 mcg/ml ) and P (0.84 to 0.80 g/ml ; 19.68 to 18.04 g/ml), respectively (P<0.001). Free testosterone increased with ZMA (132.1 to 176.3 pg/mL), compared to P (141.0 to 126.6 pg/mL) (P<0.001); IGF-I increased in the ZMA group (424.2 to 439.3 ng/mL) and decreased in P (437.3 to 343.3 ng/mL) (P<0.001). Muscle strength via torque measurements and functional power were assessed with a Biodex dynamometer. Differences were noted between the groups (P<0.001): ZMA (189.9 to 211 Nm at 180º/s and 316.5 to 373.7 Nm at 300º/s) and P (204.2 to 209.1 Nm at 180º/s and 369.5 to 404.3 Nm at 300º/s). The results demonstrate the efficacy of a Zn-Mg preparation (ZMA) on muscle attributes and selected hormones in strength-trained, competitive athletes.

The study had them take nothing but ZMA, no other supps. So, it could be assumed that getting it from a multi should be just as effective. Here is the full text of the study:

http://www.css.edu/users/tboone2/asep/Brilla1ColV2.doc

 

[YellowJacket]

One more...

J Appl Physiol 2002 Sep;93(3):813-22 Related Articles, Links


Exercise-induced immunodepression- plasma glutamine is not the link.

Hiscock N, Pedersen BK.

Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre and Department of Infectious Diseases, Rigshospitalet, University of Copenhagen, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark.

The amino acid glutamine is known to be important for the function of some immune cells in vitro. It has been proposed that the decrease in plasma glutamine concentration in relation to catabolic conditions, including prolonged, exhaustive exercise, results in a lack of glutamine for these cells and may be responsible for the transient immunodepression commonly observed after acute, exhaustive exercise. It has been unclear, however, whether the magnitude of the observed decrease in plasma glutamine concentration would be great enough to compromise the function of immune cells. In fact, intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA. It is concluded that, although the glutamine hypothesis may explain immunodepression related to other stressful conditions such as trauma and burn, plasma glutamine concentration is not likely to play a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immunodepression.

 

[YellowJacket]

Yep, another

Am J Physiol Cell Physiol 2001 Oct;281(4):C1259-65 Related Articles, Links


Effect of glutamine supplementation on exercise-induced changes in lymphocyte function.

Krzywkowski K, Petersen EW, Ostrowski K, Kristensen JH, Boza J, Pedersen BK.

Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre and Department of Infectious Diseases, Rigshospitalet, 2200 Copenhagen N, Denmark.

The purpose of this study was to investigate the possible role of glutamine in exercise-induced impairment of lymphocyte function. Ten male athletes participated in a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind crossover study. Each athlete performed bicycle exercise for 2 h at 75% of maximum O(2) consumption on 2 separate days. Glutamine or placebo supplements were given orally during and up to 2 h postexercise. The trial induced postexercise neutrocytosis that lasted at least 2 h. The total lymphocyte count increased by the end of exercise due to increase of both CD3(+)TCR alpha beta(+) and CD3(+)TCR gamma delta(+) T cells as well as CD3(-)CD16(+)CD56(+) natural killer (NK) cells. Concentrations of CD8(+) and CD4(+) T cells lacking CD28 and CD95 on their surface increased more than those of cells expressing these receptors. Within the CD4(+) cells, only CD45RA(-) memory cells, but not CD45RA(+) naive cells, increased in response to exercise. Most lymphocyte subpopulations decreased 2 h after exercise. Glutamine supplementation abolished the postexercise decline in plasma glutamine concentration but had no effect on lymphocyte trafficking, NK and lymphokine-activated killer cell activities, T cell proliferation, catecholamines, growth hormone, insulin, or glucose. Neutrocytosis was less pronounced in the glutamine-supplemented group, but it is unlikely that this finding is of any clinical significance. This study does not support the idea that glutamine plays a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immune changes.

 

[YellowJacket]

Beautiful........


Clin Nutr 2002 Oct;21(5):423-9 Related Articles, Links


Carbohydrate supplementation during intense exercise and the immune response of cyclists.

Bacurau RF, Bassit RA, Sawada L, Navarro F, Martins E Jr, Costa Rosa LF.

Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Institute of Biomedical Sciences, University of Sao Paulo, Brazil.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of carbohydrate supplementation upon some aspects of the immune function in athletes during intense indoor cycling. METHODS: Twelve male athletes cycled for 20 min at a velocity corresponding to 90% of that obtained at the anaerobic threshold and rested for 20 min. This protocol was repeated six times. The athletes received, during the trial, water ad libitum, or a solution of carbohydrate (95% glucose polymers and 5% fructose) at 10% (w/v), 1 g kg h every 20 min, starting at the 10th minute of the first exercise period, plus extra water ad libitum. RESULTS: Exercise induced a reduction in peripheral blood mononuclear cell proliferation (37%) as well as in the production of cytokines by cultured cells (interleukin-1 (IL-1), interleukin-2 (IL-2), tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) and interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma), by 37%, 35%, 26% and 16%, respectively). All of these changes were prevented by the ingestion of a carbohydrate drink by the athletes, except that in IFN-gamma production, which was equally decreased (17%) after the second trial. The concentration of plasma glutamine, an important fuel for immune cells, was decreased in the placebo group but maintained in the group that received carbohydrate. CONCLUSION: Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration

 

[John Benz]

MUSCLE EFFLUX OF GLUTAMINE
IN ORAL CREATINE OVERSUPPLIED SPORTSMEN
CAN MIMIC STRESS CONDITIONS
WITH INCREASED RISKS OF ATHLETIC TRAUMAS

By Renato COCCHI MD, neurologist and medical psychologist


During the 2nd World Congress on Stress (Melbourne, 1998) Dr G. Tassani and I asserted that stress, even the first phase of overtraining syndrome, induces an increased supply of peripheral Acetylcholine (ACh) for increased availability of its precursor, the choline. This happens because brain reduced turnover of ACh reduces the blood-barrier transport into the brain of choline, but also by an increased efflux of choline from the brain. As for the vagal district, an increasing of ACh during stress had experimental evidence (Hata et al. 1986; Kita et al., 1986).

The vagal stimulation grows because the direct link between hypothalamic glutamate hyperfunction, and stimulation of some vagal brain nuclei like Nucleus Dorsalis Vagi and Nucleus Tracti Solitarii. (Kunos et al., 1995; Pluzhnichenko, 1997; Yoneda and Tache', 1995).

As for heart, if the sympathetic system is unable to compensate the increased vagal stimulation, one person could have vagal syncope or an irreversible fatal collapse. Since many physicians have a poor understanding of the dynamic of that mechanism, often we erroneously heard about heart infarcts in such cases. Luckily these are rare events as spontaneous ones.

Out of the body districts under the vagal control we maintain that it happens the same increasing of the peripheral ACh (ours are only clinical data, now). That drives to postures unbalance and to a power magnification of the athletic gesture. This is the result of a magnified but wrong setting of postures, when they usually set according to their brain kinetic memory mirroring normal conditions. So postures can play at their excursion's limits, with reduced margins for recovery. In that state a provoked athletic trauma could be heavier, because the postures do not easily allow the balance to reset, being at work with poor compensating margins.

In the same time the voluntary athletic gesture becomes magnified and powerful because of muscular fibres increased stimulation due to a larger amount of ACh into the end-plate.

The loose of synchronism between postures working at their limits and magnified athletic gesture can end to a spontaneous athletic trauma. In other terms, in a stress situation like that, one can reach an increased easiness to spontaneous athletic traumas and more severity in provoked athletic traumas.

Which role could play a creatine excess diet in this mechanism?

Creatine's function is to favour the resynthesis of phospho-creatine, and so the muscular ATP production. The increasing of the body muscular mass could be due to the extra work the larger amount of ATP lets doing, since physical fatigue appears later.

Red muscles are the greater producers of glutamine and it comes out by means of ATP (Meister, 1956 and 1969; Graham and MacLean, 1998; Yoo, Field and McBurney, 1997).

There is a key point. There is an efflux of l-glutamine from muscles during extended muscular exercise (Graham and McLean, 1998).

This fact deals to suggest that the induced fatigue, due to ATP decreasing, be a defense mechanism to avoid muscular fibres' damages like sprains, when muscular work extends.

Athletes with overtraining stress have low levels of glutamine for months or years (Rowbottom, Keast and Morton, 1996).

Glutamine is the main precursor of the brain glutamate (Baxter, 1975; Ward, Thanki and Bradford, 1983; Laake et al., 1995; Shuplakow et al., 1977). In all stress conditions at all origin they have, there is growing of the brain glutamate, the more spread excitatory neurotransmitter that produces cascade negative reactions when in excess. (See: Friedman MJ, Charney DS and Deutch AY. Neurobiologcal and clinical consequences of stress, Philadelphia, Lippicott-Raven 1995).

Sometimes athletes tried to increase their own athletic performances with high doses' creatine diet (up to 20-30 g daily = 5.0-7.5 kg of red meat). If so they set off also an up efflux of muscular glutamine into blood, according to the increased muscular synthesis of glutamine.

Blood glutamine easily crosses the blood-brain barrier and so makes the brain glutamate increasing. In absence of stress this fact could be not neurochemically relevant although some symptoms of the increased brain glutamate could arise, like in stress. When in a stressed condition, the oversupply of creatine diet in athletes could increase the harmful followings of the stress itself.

By analogy it is about the same of giving sugar to a diabetic person.

I use creatine in the form of creatine-phosphate as an anti-fatigue drug since more than 20 years and glutamine since at least 22 years (Cocchi, 1976). Daily doses do not reach more than 2g for creatine-phosphate and 500mg for glutamine.

In athletes excess creatine diet without considering stress conditions or even to fight stress conditions at muscular level is surely a hazardous practice._

References

Baxter FC. Some recent advances in studies of GABA metabolism and compartmentation. In: Roberts E, Chase TN, Tower DB (eds). GABA in nervous system function. New York, Raven 1976: 61-87.

Cocchi R. Antidepressive properties of l-glutamine. Preliminary report. Acta psychiat belg 1976, 76: 658-666.

Cocchi R, Tassani G. Spontaneous athletic trauma as the result of overtraining stress. Paper presented during the 2nd World Congress on Stress, Melbourne 25-29 Oct. 1998

Graham TE, MacLean DA: Ammonia and aminoacid metabolism in skeletal muscle: human, rodent and canine models. Med Sci. Sport Exerc 1998, 30: 34-46.

Hata T, Kita T, Higashiguchi T, Ichida S. Total Ach content, and activities of choline acetyltransferase and acetylcholinesterase in brain and duodenum of SART-stressed (repeated cold-stressed) rat. Japan. J Pharmacol 1986, 41: 475-485.

Horger BA, Roth RH. Stress and central amino acid system. In: Friedman MJ, Charney DS, Deutch AJ. (eds). Neurobiological and clinical consequences of stress: From normal adaptation to PTSD. Philadelphia, Lippincott-Raven 1995: 61-81.

Kita T, Hata T, Higashiguchi T, Itoh E., Kavabata A. Changes of total acetylcholine and the activity of related enzymes in SART-(repeated cold)-stressed rat brain and duodenum. Japan. J Pharmacol 1986, 40: 174-177

Kunos G, Varga K. The tachycardia associated with the defense reaction involves activation of both GABA A and GABA B receptors in the nucleus tracti solitarii. Clin Exper Hhypertens 1995, 17: 91-100.

Laake J.H. et al.: Glutamine from glial cells is essential for the maintenance of the nerve terminal pool of glutamate: Immunogold evidence from hippocampal slice cultures. J. Neurochem. 1995, 65: 871-881.

Meister A. Metabolism of l-glutamine. Physiol Rev 1956, 36: 103-126.

Meister A. On the synthesis and utilisation of l-glutamine. Harvey Lect. 1969, 63: 139-168.

Pluzhnichenko EB. Spatial organization of hypothalamic neurons projecting to the "gastric region" of the vagosolitary complex. Neurosci Behav Physiol 1997, 27: 688-691.

Rowbottom DG, Keast D, Morton AR. The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining. Sports Med 1996, 21: 80-97.

Shuplakow O. et al.: Glial and neuronal glutamine pools at glutamergic synapses with distinct properties. Neuroscience 1977, 77: 1201-1212.

Ward HK, Thanki CM, Bradford HF. Glutamine and glucose as precursors of transmitter amino acids: Ex vivo studies. J Neurochem 1983, 40: 855-860

Yoneda M, Tache' Y. SMS 201-995-induced stimulation of gastric acid via the dorsal vagal complex and inhibition via the hypothalamus in anaesthetized rats. Br J Pharmacol 1995, 116: 2303-2309.

Yoo S.S., Field C.J., McBurney M.I.: Glutamine supplementation maintains intramuscular glutamine concentrations and normalizes lymphocyte function in infected early weaned pigs. J. Nutr. 1997, 127: 2253-2259..

Presented at the 6th International Congress on Amino Acid, Bonn August 3-7, 1999_
Author's address: dr Renato COCCHI, via Mercalli 10
42100 Reggio Emilia (Italy)

 

[John Benz]

Canadian Journal of Physiology and Pharmacology
Contents | Sample Issue | For Authors | Information | Services |

Glutamine and the effects of exhaustive exercise upon the immune response
Linda M. Castell and Eric A. Newsholme
Can. J. Physiol. Pharmacol./Rev. Can. Physiol. Pharmacol. 76(5): 524-532 (1998)

Abstract: There is a high incidence of infections in athletes undergoing intense, prolonged training or participating in endurance races (e.g., the marathon), in particular, upper respiratory tract infections. Prolonged, exhaustive exercise can lower the plasma level of the amino acid, glutamine, which is an important fuel for some cells of the immune system and may have specific immunostimulatory effects. This could therefore be an important factor in the event of an impaired response of immune cells to opportunistic infections. The effects of feeding glutamine to sedentary individuals and to marathon and ultramarathon runners before and after prolonged, exhaustive exercise has been investigated in a series of studies that monitored the incidence of infections and some acute-phase response markers. Oral glutamine, compared with a placebo, appeared to have a beneficial effect on the incidence of infections reported by runners after a marathon.

 

[YellowJacket]

Thats a great article showing the benefits of creatine, may save that one.....

 

[JohnGafnea]

That's a lot of anti-glutamine research. Me thinks I'll finish out the rest of my supply then discontinue it.

That leaves me with...creatine, multivitamins, zma, and sometimes guggulsterones taken with thermogenics.

 

[Sir Foxx]

Ok, I can see how free form L-Glutamine supplementation might be of little value, but I still value in glutamine peptides, especially combined in and augmenting a good protein blend. For myself I have been ordering a custom blend from ProteinCustomizer that is 30% CFM Whey Isolate, 20% Milk Protein Isolate, 20% Micellular Casein, 20% Egg Protein Isolate, 9% Soy Isolate and 1% Glutamine Peptides. I plan on playing with the % of Glutamine Peptides up to 5% with a corresponding decrease in Soy Isolate. I feel glutamine in this form has helped me tremendously in recovery, unfortunately I don't have hard science to back it up, just my personal observations.

 

[RaulJimenez]

Effect of oral glutamine on whole-body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise.. Bowtell, J. L., K. Gelly, M. L. Jackman, A. Patel, M. Simeoni, M. J. Rennie. Department of Anatomy and Physiology, University of Dundee, Dundee, Scotland, DD1 4HN and * Department of Electronics and Informatics, University of Padova, Padova, Italy

APStracts 5:0541A, 1998.
The aim of this study was to determine the efficacy of glutamine in promoting whole-body carbohydrate storage and muscle glycogen resynthesis during recovery from exhaustive exercise. Post-absorptive subjects completed a glycogen-depleting exercise protocol then consumed 330 ml of one of three drinks 18.5 % (w:v) glucose polymer solution, 8 g glutamine in 330 ml glucose polymer solution or 8 g glutamine in 330 ml placebo and also received a primed constant infusion of [1-13C]glucose for 2 h. Plasma glutamine concentration was increased after consumption of the glutamine drinks (0.7 mM to 1.1 mM, P < 0.05). In the second hour of recovery, whole body non -oxidative glucose disposal was increased by 25 % after consumption of glutamine in addition to the glucose polymer (4.48 +/- 0.61 vs 3.59 +/- 0.18 mmol.kg-1, P < 0.05).

Oral glutamine alone promoted storage of muscle glycogen to an extent similar to glucose polymer. Ingestion of glutamine and glucose polymer together promoted the storage of carbohydrate outside of skeletal muscle, the most feasible site being the liver.

Received 22 October 1977; accepted in final form 23 November
1998.
APS Manuscript Number A967-7.
Article publication pending Journal of Applied Physiology.
ISSN 1080-4757 Copyright 1998 The American Physiological Society.
Published in APStracts on 18 December 1998

 

[RaulJimenez]

Glutamine and the effects of exhaustive exercise upon the immune response.
Castell LM, Newsholme EA.
University Department of Biochemistry, Oxford, U.K. [email protected]
There is a high incidence of infections in athletes undergoing intense, prolonged training or participating in endurance races (e.g., the marathon), in particular, upper respiratory tract infections. Prolonged, exhaustive exercise can lower the plasma level of the amino acid, glutamine, which is an important fuel for some cells of the immune system and may have specific immunostimulatory effects. This could therefore be an important factor in the event of an impaired response of immune cells to opportunistic infections. The effects of feeding glutamine to sedentary individuals and to marathon and ultramarathon runners before and after prolonged, exhaustive exercise has been investigated in a series of studies that monitored the incidence of infections and some acute-phase response markers.Oral glutamine, compared with a placebo, appeared to have a beneficial effect on the incidence of infections reported by runners after a marathon.
Publication Types: Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 9839078 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE].

 

[RaulJimenez]

Glutamine as an immunoenhancing nutrient.
Saito H, Furukawa S, Matsuda T.
Surgical Center, Faculty of Medicine, University of Tokyo, Japan.
New strategies for immunonutritional support include administration of special nutrients such as glutamine. Glutamine is important in several key metabolic processes of immune cells and enterocytes. Exogenous glutamine augments the functions of lymphocytes and macrophages. Neutrophils also reportedly utilize glutamine at a significant rate. Our recent studies demonstrated that glutamine enhances neutrophil function. This article focuses on the effects of glutamine on neutrophil function in surgical stress. Enteral glutamine administration enhanced peritoneal and hepatic bacterial clearance in our rat peritonitis model. Furthermore, IV glutamine supplementation improved the outcome of animals with severe surgical stress. Our in vitro study revealed that supplemental glutamine augmented the bacterial killing function of neutrophils from postoperative patients. Glutamine increased phagocytosis of the neutrophils. In addition, glutamine dose-dependently increased production of reactive oxygen intermediates (ROI) by neutrophils. Thus, our studies suggest that glutamine supplementation may improve bactericidal function of neutrophils by increasing both phagocytosis and ROI production. In conclusion, glutamine plays an important role in neutrophil function.Glutamine may be useful for the prevention, and treatment, of severe infection in critical illness and trauma.
Publication Types: Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 10483897 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[YellowJacket]

You're posting repeat articles. None of which mean anything to a bodybuilder.

 

[RaulJimenez]

Stimulatory effect of glutamine on glycogen accumulation in human skeletal muscle.
Varnier M, Leese GP, Thompson J, Rennie MJ.
Department of Anatomy and Physiology, University of Dundee, Scotland, United Kingdom.
To determine whether glutamine can stimulate human muscle glycogen synthesis, we studied in groups of six subjects the effect after exercise of infusion of glutamine, alanine+glycine, or saline. The subjects cycled for 90 min at 70-140% maximal oxygen consumption to deplete muscle glycogen; then primed constant infusions of glutamine (30 mg/kg; 50 mg.kg-1.h-1) or an isonitrogenous, isoenergetic mixture of alanine+glycine or NaCl (0.9%) were administered. Muscle glutamine remained constant during saline infusion, decreased 18% during alanine+glycine infusion (P < 0.001), but rose 16% during glutamine infusion (P < 0.001). By 2 h after exercise, muscle glycogen concentration had increased more in the glutamine-infused group than in the saline or alanine+glycine controls (+2.8 +/- 0.6, +0.8 +/- 0.4, and +0.9 +/- 0.4 mumol/g wet wt, respectively, P < 0.05, glutamine vs. saline or alanine+glycine). Labeling of glycogen by tracer [U-13C]glucose was similar in glutamine and saline groups, suggesting no effect of glutamine on the fractional rate of blood glucose incorporation into glycogen.The results suggest that, after exercise, increased availability of glutamine promotes muscle glycogen accumulation by mechanisms possibly including diversion of glutamine carbon to glycogen.
PMID: 7653548 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[YellowJacket]

Another repeat article, which was refuted and dismissed above, but thanks for trying.

 

[RaulJimenez]

The first abstract and the last one can be applied to a bodybuilder, the others are the way glutamine can possibly enhance the immune system YellowJacket.

 

[YellowJacket]

The first abstract and the last one can be applied to a bodybuilder, the others are the way glutamine can possibly enhance the immune system YellowJacket.

Yes and marathon runner and a bodybuilder are very comparable

The second one is related to treatment of trauma victims. This was posted several times on various boards and soon deleted once everyone realizes a intense training weight lifter's immune system can not be compared to an AIDS patient or surgery victim, come on, you should know better than that.

 

[RaulJimenez]

Yeah I know, I was doing some research on my own before coming to harsh YES and NO conclusions, and my conclusion from reading all those abstract I could find is that if you have the (money) to afford it then get it as insurance , if not then don't buy it , you get glutamine from supplements and food.

 

[YellowJacket]

Yeah I know, I was doing some research on my own before coming to harsh YES and NO conclusions, and my conclusion from reading all those abstract I could find is that if you have the (money) to afford it then get it as insurance , if not then don't buy it , you get glutamine from supplements and food.

Exactly what Im trying to prove. Food alone + a protein powder, you're getting more than enough.

 

[RaulJimenez]

Yep , we agree on this matter now

 

[John Benz]

Yes and marathon runner and a bodybuilder are very comparable

The second one is related to treatment of trauma victims. This was posted several times on various boards and soon deleted once everyone realizes a intense training weight lifter's immune system can not be compared to an AIDS patient or surgery victim, come on, you should know better than that.

I am glad you noticed this as the only one of your articles that even mentions bodybuilders is # 2, and they state nothing conclusive, but that the data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men. So what? No one takes it to increase performance OR increase carbohydrate metabolism or to boost the auto-immune system, but to prevent soft tissue injury. Since none of your studies has any relevance as pertains to the main use of glutamine in the bodybuilding community, that is, muscle tissue recovery, and only one even mentions weight lifters at all, the burden of proof is still on your shoulders. I find glutamine to be an important supp for muscle recovery, far more than mere placebo effect (nice try though)

Most of the vets here see a real world difference in just protein vs protein+ glutamine.

 

[CerealKiller]

YJ the anti-glutaminist

LOL.

YJ you make a good argument for not using supplemental glutamine and backing it up with studies,certainly giving everyone something to consider but I tend to agree with Benz in that you can feel a real world difference in muscle recovery with heavy doses of glutamine supplementation(20grams and up).

No I don't have any science to back this up and haven't used glutamine in 2 years mainly due to the price tag but I'm convinced there is more to glutamine than the placebo effect.

 

[LakeMountD]

while i agree with YJ in that buying glutamine is a complete waste, i must say that i feel glutamine has a very positive impact on recovery.. go over to animal's forum and talk to doggcrapp about that one.. HOWEVER, as YJ said glutamine can be found in most protein dense foods, also if your taking something like optimum's pro complex formula it has 5 g of glutamine per serving, and their regular complex has 2.5 g, two scoops of those a day as well as a good protein dense diet should give you plenty of glutamine to aide in your recovery, as far as cell volume goes hell creatine can do that...

 

[YellowJacket]

I am glad you noticed this as the only one of your articles that even mentions bodybuilders is # 2, and they state nothing conclusive, but that the data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men. So what? No one takes it to increase performance OR increase carbohydrate metabolism or to boost the auto-immune system, but to prevent soft tissue injury. Since none of your studies has any relevance as pertains to the main use of glutamine in the bodybuilding community, that is, muscle tissue recovery, and only one even mentions weight lifters at all, the burden of proof is still on your shoulders. I find glutamine to be an important supp for muscle recovery, far more than mere placebo effect (nice try though)

Most of the vets here see a real world difference in just protein vs protein+ glutamine.

Which one of your studies mentions bodybuilders? None since studies and documents pro glutamine pertaining to bodybuilders do not exist. I was discussing this with Nandi at CEM and he agrees that an AIDS patient, terminally ill individual and a bodybuilder, novice or competitor, are in no way comparable in regards to immune systems.

jboldman, also a mod at CEM, prodived me with these references:


Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol 1998 Apr;77(5):434-8 Related Articles, Links
The effects of high-intensity intermittent exercise on the plasma concentrations of glutamine and organic acids.
Walsh NP, Blannin AK, Clark AM, Cook L, Robson PJ, Gleeson M.

Med Sci Sports Exerc 1997 Apr;29(4):474-81 Related Articles, Links
Dietary L-glutamine does not improve lymphocyte metabolism or function in exercise-trained rats.
Shewchuk LD, Baracos VE, Field CJ

*If you look these up it shows that basal glutamine levels in weight training athletes, and that supplementing with oral glutamine showed NO positive effects on immune recovery.

Some more work by Nandi

The body's immune system is very finely tuned so that if you tip it a little bit one way or the other, problems can arise. For instance, post-exercise, a little inflammation is necessary to promote growth. If you block inflammation, by for instance blocking prostaglandin production with antiinflammatories, post exercise growth is blunted. Obviously excessive inflammation is bad, as it too inhibits recovery and leads to chronic injury.

Nobody knows really why glutamine helps recovery in critically ill patients (especially when given IV in huge doses) but does not do anything in normal people. But it is probably related to the fact that in critical illness, glutamine goes from being a nonessential amino acid to an essential one (1). Anyone except a critically ill patient makes adequate glutamine so supplementation does nothing.

One key immune cytokine produced by exercise is IL-6. This is a proinflammatory cytokine that is believed to act to regulate glucose availability during and immediately after exercise. When carbohydrates are ingested prior to exercise, levels of IL-6 are lower during and after exercise. In the carbohydrate depleted state, IL-6 is high during exercise. So in some way IL-6 acts as a carbohydrate status sensor (2).

Carbohydrate ingestion prior to, during and after exercise improves performance and recovery (3). One reason may be that as we saw, high carb levels suppress IL-6. IL-6 is considered a catabolic cytokine because because if lowers IGF-1 levels (4,5)

So we see that exercise in a carb depleted state leads to high levels of IL-6, which suppresses growth. What is the glutamine connection? During exercise glutamine is lowered and IL-6 is increased. When glutamine is given during and after exercise, it INCREASES the levels of the bad cytokine IL-6. (6). So not only is glutamine supplementation unnecessary in all but the critically ill, it could have a negative impact on normal exercising humans by elevating IL-6 levels. This could upset the balance between pro and antiinflammatory immune cytokines released during exercise.

(1) Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care 2003 Mar;6(2):217-22

Role of L-glutamine in critical illness: new insights.

Kelly D, Wischmeyer PE.


(2) J Physiol 2003 Jan 1;546(Pt 1):299-305

The effect of graded exercise on IL-6 release and glucose uptake in human skeletal muscle.

Helge JW, Stallknecht B, Pedersen BK, Galbo H, Kiens B, Richter EA


(3) J Strength Cond Res 2003 Feb;17(1):187-96

Carbohydrate supplementation and resistance training.

Haff GG, Lehmkuhl MJ, McCoy LB, Stone MH.


(4) Horm Res 2002;58 Suppl 1:24-7

Role of interleukin-6 in growth failure: an animal model.

De Benedetti F, Meazza C, Martini A

(5) Pediatrics 2002 Oct;110(4):681-9

Effect of intense exercise on inflammatory cytokines and growth mediators in adolescent boys.

Nemet D, Oh Y, Kim HS, Hill M, Cooper DM.

(6) J Appl Physiol 2003 Feb 28; [epub ahead of print]

Glutamine supplementation further enhances exercise-induced plasma IL-6.

Hiscock NJ, Petersen EW, Krzywkowski K, Boza J, Halkjaer-Kristensen J, Pedersen BK.

**In all fairness, I did find around 30 peer review studies that supported glutamine supplementation (not all, but a few) for marathon runners, burn victims, etc. Well, neither of these apply to me and the other million bodybuilders out there. In the remaning glutamine peer reviews, in which I read all of them, there were vague reliance on glutamine, much too vague and too many variables to be published in a journal, but all had good points, pro glutamine. Im putting together a large, full, detailed, unbiased article on the ineffectiveness of glutamine supplementation. With the help of some CEM mods, and others this should be done shortly. This will not be an article slamming glutamine, it will be professionally written, downgrading each positive effect of glutamine. I have read enough to establish that glutamine has its purposes in soft tissue repair, but the amount that had to be consumed was much more than I, and most people could afford.

As far as the burden of proof on myself, not hardly. I have busted my ass researching, etc. to prove glutamine useless, something you have no done for pro glutamine. I do agree with you however that everything found on pubmed isnt golden, you have to dig deeper and find more background on it.

Like everyone said above and like I keep pounding in the ground, glutamine is still very much mysterious, real world experience is great but the same results will not be equal for everyone. Whats good for one person, is not good for everyone. My goal is to disspell accessory supplementation of glutamine. I will be researching several popular protein powders and listing their glutamine contents, etc. To show what I already know, and thats glutamine does nothing protein powder doesnt.

I will be back shortly with a study (hopefully 2) that shows glutamine ay actually be suppressive of IGF-1 in the end (these are brand new).

 

[windwords7]

It's always interesting to me that the endurance athletes seem to benefit from many things that non-enduracne athletes have only little or no benefit from the same supplement.

 

[YellowJacket]

It's always interesting to me that the endurance athletes seem to benefit from many things that non-enduracne athletes have only little or no benefit from the same supplement.

Agreed. This is something else I have been talking with Nandi about. What is the relationship between say a middle aged man who runs 10 miles a day and does marathon work to an average, middle aged man who does moderate to heavy weight training 4-5 days a week. I dont think they're comparable for a number of reasons, we're working on tangent proof though, so it may be awhile.

 

[YellowJacket]

Ok, last glutamine post until I pull everything together.

Im trying to be as unbiased about this as I can. This is no longer in my best interest, I would really like to get to the bottom of it. So I am reading anti-glutamine studies/articles, and pro glutamine articles/studies/abstracts, etc. To understand all of this.

The glutamine abstracts which are performed on marathon runners are bunk, as related to the immune function of glutamine. The general dietary recall of marathon runners follows a 70/15/15 Pro/carbs/fat respectivly. Marathon runners tend to carb load 2-3 days before a run. Protein intake is way down. If you think about it, marathon runners base their whole eitiology behind fuel and endurance. How many fat or heavy marathon runners do you see? None. They rely on fat at first, and then CHO. Its common knowledge in the nutrition world that protein is not ideal as a fuel source. So extra glutamine supplementation would indeed be needed for those dedicated to the sport.

Other variables like training enviroment come into play. Running outside in the cold at times is not good for your immune system. Not to say gyms are sanitary, but you get what Im saying.

Obviously a bodybuilders diet is much different from that of a marathon runner. Our protein intake is likely 3 times or more of a marathon runner, as well as out fat intake. Carbs more than likely lower. Bodybuilders just eat more, plain and simple. This means more foods like milk, cottage cheese, beans, and several other glutamine dense whole foods each day!. Not only that, but we also consume at least 1, possibly 2 or 3 or more protein shakes a day. Like I have said 100 times, if you have a decent protein powder, its glutamine contents are high. So naturally, without extra supplementation, you're going...... how much glutamine? Enough? I would assume, (only my opinion as I didnt poll everyone) that you may be getting too much.

Ok, lets talk about what the main intent of glutamine's use is. Cutting. To preserve that lean muscle mass you put on while bulking. Is it common knowledge that when cutting, protein uptake is increased quite a bit? I understand people being to avoid milk for its lactose properties, so maybe you're going to be difficient in glutamine while cutting out milk? I dont think so. If you're a 200lbs bodybuilder, you're going to need around 250+ grams of protein when cutting. You're going to get a significant amount of glutamine from just that protein. Can I say for sure you will get your daily 20grams? Nope. But I would assume, if you know what you're doing, you will achieve more than that.

So, what about the megadoses of glutamine these guys take? Well just as protein breaks down, to amino acids it ca nbe secreted or can convert to glucose via the Cory Cycle. So especially in a bulking situtaion, if you're consuming large or moderate amounts of glutamine, oh boy. Even when cutting....... the object is to lower glucose levels to get to fat stores. If you have converting amino acids to glucose, thats even more glucose you must deplete before getting to the fat......

More on all this later.

 

[YellowJacket]

I am glad you noticed this as the only one of your articles that even mentions bodybuilders is # 2, and they state nothing conclusive, but that the data ..

Oh, you should probably check that again, there's actually 4 not 1 abstract on weight training/resistance athletes and another 2 on athletes.

 

[John Benz]

Which one of your studies mentions bodybuilders? None since studies and documents pro glutamine pertaining to bodybuilders do not exist. I was discussing this with Nandi at CEM and he agrees that an AIDS patient, terminally ill individual and a bodybuilder, novice or competitor, are in no way comparable in regards to immune systems.

When no studies exist, you have to rely on personal experience and the real world experiences of people who have gotten results. The following 3 people have certainly never heard of Nandi12, although their names are quite familiar to him. They are the experts in this field, not some grad student doing a study on lab rats, aids patients, or young people, and their credentials are above repute. Dr. Eric Serrano is considered by many as one of the most knowledgeable people in the world of bodybuilding. This is what they have to say....

This information comes from Milos Sarcev's message boards.
The question posted on the boards went like this:

I have noticed that most of professional bodybuilders claim that they regularly use glutamine. What is so special about this nonessential amino acid? After all body can synthesize glutamine (if there is a need) from other amino acids.

As we all know, Milos is a bodybuilding genius. There's nothing that he doesn't know about nutrition, supplements, or exercising.

Anyway, here's HIS answer to the question:

"Glutamine is unambiguously one of the most popular supplements among the
bodybuilders and competitive athletes. Just to name a few benefits -glutamine has
anabolic activity (increase synthesis of muscle protein), anticatabolic activity (decrease muscle protein breakdown), lipolytic activity (as it increases secretion of "fat burning" growth hormone), increases synthesis of glycogen and ATP, decreases buildup of fatigue substances -lactate and ammonia, boost immune system and free testosterone levels.

Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in our body and our muscle tissue. High
intensity weight training and any other highly stressful condition depletes Glutamine
stores and increases the need for the Glutamine production. Unfortunately even though our body can synthesize this amino acid from the other amino acids (glutamic acid, isoleucin and valine) it appears that body's ability to produce Glutamine doesn't
replenishes what was lost during intense training or stress.

Many athletes have used it and most commonly they have noticed increased ability to recover from their workouts. Bodybuilders especially can attest for many of glutamine's powerful muscle building and cell volumazing effects. I would suggest you to give Glutamine honest try. Don't use it sporadically but make a
habit to take 5grams a day immediately after the workout. After the first week start
increasing the dosage by 2-3grams until you reach at least 20 grams per day (I have
athletes that take up to 40 grams a day with great results).

Some bodybuilders on their low carbohydrate diets also take excess amount of Glutamine preferring to get glucose from non-carbohydrate source (Glutamine can be converted into glucose by glyconeogenesis process). This is a common practice among the competitive bodybuilders and even though it make some sense I believe that Glutamine is to valuable (and expensive) to be wasted and converted into highly available (and extremely inexpensive) simple sugar -glucose. Finally -don't confuse unessential with unimportant. Essential amino acids got that name as our body's can not produce them and we have to intake them through food or supplements. " -Milos Sarcev

 

[John Benz]

In the old days, whenever a doctor said something—anything—it was pretty much taken as gospel. After all, they're all incredibly bright, they all pull down some serious cash, and, well, they're doctors.

Of course, those of us in our little field of kamikaze, theoretical, self-experimental bodybuilding have a different take on most physicians. How so? Well, most of us run away screaming when someone flashes his or her MD credentials. You can't blame us, though. Traditional medical education has taught doctors that steroids are a poison on par with strychnine; that any amount of protein greater than the RDA will practically cause your kidneys to fall out; and that creatine needs further research (even though there are hundreds, if not thousands, of studies supporting its use).

Happily, there are always exceptions. Nowadays, there are doctors who are elbow-deep in the area of bodybuilding and physique augmentation. And man, when you find someone like that, you've really got something.

Dr. Eric Serrano is one of these enlightened physicians. In fact, Serrano is so hip on supplements that more often than not, he prescribes over-the-counter supplements to his patients in lieu of drugs. He also conducts private studies on just about any new supplement that comes down the pike. Of course, he also has a deep-rooted personal interest in new supplements because he's a competitive power lifter who most recently set a record in a Midwest tri-state meet for total weight.

Serrano currently runs a private clinic in Columbus, Ohio, along with teaching classes at Ohio State's medical school. Although we did this interview over the phone, we just know he's sitting there in an extra-large, white lab coat with the sleeves torn off, in an office that has as many bench presses as it has EKG monitors..

Dr. Eric Serrano on Glutamine:

Glutamine has made a big difference in my patients, especially their immune systems, and glutamine gets rid of colds; it helps your joints; and it can increase your strength in one day. People will ask me where I'm getting this information from, but I've been playing with 11 patients with different dosages. Here's what I've come up with: you need .35 grams per kilogram of body weight. And you take it in one dose an hour before a workout. Tell me what happens during your workout. I don't care what type of workout it is.

I know that we chemistry people say it does this or it does that, but something else is going on. I think there are two mechanisms. For one thing, I think it's an excellent source of energy because the body can break it down to glutamic acid, which is kind of a sugar [although he wouldn't come right out and say it, Dr. Serrano intimated that the glutamic acid may serve as a powerful energy substrate, thereby increasing work capacity]. Number two, I have found out, and this is very important, glutamine is a marker of overtraining. If I take people, and I have them write down their workouts, and if their glutamic acid/glutamine ratio is over 10 to one, that person was invariably getting sick or developing soreness, or their performance was going down. I will tell you, papers are going to come out on it, because it's very interesting how this works. If the ratio is less than 10 to 1, you're overtraining. If I give you oral glutamine, you'll prevent overtraining. I have some theories about how it works, but I don't want to talk about them yet…if it works that way, great, but I don't want to give people the wrong idea.

Because the cost is so high, I wouldn't take it every day. I might take a baseline dosage of 2 to 5 grams a day to keep my levels high, but if I'm going through an intensity phase or accumulation phase, like Charles Poliquin calls them, I will take a larger dosage—.35 grams (times body weight in kilograms) and divide it into two dosages; in the morning, an hour before the workout, and the other half before bedtime to preserve muscle while I'm sleeping.

 

[YellowJacket]

When no studies exist, you have to rely on personal experience and the real world experiences of people who have gotten results.

Real world 'experience' will never replace hard science. The reasons these do not exist, is because there are none. No one can run a study on bodybuilders and find glutamine supplementation useful.

The following 3 people have certainly never heard of Nandi12, although their names are quite familiar to him. They are the experts in this field, not some grad student doing a study on lab rats, aids patients, or young people, and their credentials are above repute. Dr. Eric Serrano is considered by many as one of the most knowledgeable people in the world of bodybuilding. This is what they have to say....

Wow, Im shocked. Nandi is by no means a grad student. He has an MS yes and writes for several boards and journals I believe. To down play his education like that is pretty disrespectful. I would take his opinion over the kind of Synthol, Milos. Who needs glutamine when you have synthol? Nandi is by far in the top 5 of most intelligent members on all of the boards. You have been to CEM, you know what he does over there. Anyone who writes for T-Mag is simply confused. I cant believe someone treats T-Mag like the bible. Its all junk. One week they write an article and publish it on the amazing feats of glutamine, and a week later they print another calling glutamine useless, amazing.

This information comes from Milos Sarcev's message boards.
The question posted on the boards went like this:

Yes, you have posted this at least a half dozen times, I have read it, it means nothing to me. One guy's a opinion (Capt. Synthol) is laughable.

As we all know, Milos is a bodybuilding genius.

LMAO... Riiiiight.

Just to name a few benefits -glutamine has
anabolic activity (increase synthesis of muscle protein), anticatabolic activity (decrease muscle protein breakdown), lipolytic activity (as it increases secretion of "fat burning" growth hormone), increases synthesis of glycogen and ATP, decreases buildup of fatigue substances -lactate and ammonia, boost immune system and free testosterone levels.

Any citations for these or do we just take his word for it? Because I have several abstracts done by top universities that say otherwise.

Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in our body and our muscle tissue. High intensity weight training and any other highly stressful condition depletes Glutamine stores and increases the need for the Glutamine production.

This still remains to be proved.

Unfortunately even though our body can synthesize this amino acid from the other amino acids (glutamic acid, isoleucin and valine) it appears that body's ability to produce Glutamine doesn't
replenishes what was lost during intense training or stress.

Many athletes have used it and most commonly they have noticed increased ability to recover from their workouts. Bodybuilders especially can attest for many of glutamine's powerful muscle building and cell volumazing effects. I would suggest you to give Glutamine honest try.

Im assuming he means marathon runners and runners in general.



But on a lighter note John, you have inspired an idea in me. After my post cycle therapy, I am contemplating buying 300grams of Prolabs Glutamine and give it 1 last try. Like I said, Im no longer out to prove anyone wrong, I just really want to know. So my plan is to go 'all natural' just a multi, protein powder and glutamine (yes, no liver tabs) and keep a diary, reporting every Mon. & Thurs. And I will report my honest feelings, gains, etc. Sound like a good idea?

 

[John Benz]

Question of Strength
The real Master Blaster reveals
the science behind building muscle
by Charles Poliquin

_
Q: What type of diet would you recommend while using your 1-6-1 training program? In general, what would you suggest for anyone whose primary goal is to build strength?

A: In a nutshell, when interested in increasing your level of maximal strength (regardless of whether you're doing the 1-6-1 program or some other routine geared toward increasing strength), I find that supplements actually play a bigger part than diet. This, of course, is assuming that you're eating a diet that's more well-balanced than that eaten by the average guest on the Jerry Springer show.

Additionally, diets are very individual specific, and trying to prescribe a universal strength-building diet is risky. The key thing to keep in mind, however, in eating for maximal strength gains is focus, and anything that dulls your focus should immediately be kicked out of your diet with the deftness of an Irish barkeeper throwing out an unruly drunk. Personally, I have to abstain from carbs until the workout is over, even the low glycemic index ones. Contrast that with pro bodybuilder Milos Sarcev, however, who can ingest enough pasta to save a small African nation from starvation and still have a great workout. Compounds that I have found to help increase strength:

• Acetyl-l-carnitine, 3-7 grams per day
• Glutamine, 30-70 grams per day
• Branched-chain aminos/glutamine, taken while training, like Beverly International's Muscularity (800-781-3475)
• Ribose/creatine combo, four servings per day
• Sufficient protein, two grams per pound of bodyweight (most individuals will need to use liquid meals to achieve this target)
• Plenty of smart fats like CLA and fish oils
• Certain forms of tocotrienols in high dosages (they also dramatically reduce cholesterol)
• Various herbal preparations (this goes beyond the scope of this column, I enlist the help of a naturopath trained in herbology)

I'm not suggesting that you take all of the previous compounds at once. But I do recommend that you experiment with some of them, either alone or in combination, and find what works best for you.

 

[YellowJacket]

In the old days, whenever a doctor said something—anything—it was pretty much taken as gospel. After all, they're all incredibly bright, they all pull down some serious cash, and, well, they're doctors.

Of course, those of us in our little field of kamikaze, theoretical, self-experimental bodybuilding have a different take on most physicians. How so? Well, most of us run away screaming when someone flashes his or her MD credentials. You can't blame us, though. Traditional medical education has taught doctors that steroids are a poison on par with strychnine; that any amount of protein greater than the RDA will practically cause your kidneys to fall out; and that creatine needs further research (even though there are hundreds, if not thousands, of studies supporting its use).

Happily, there are always exceptions. Nowadays, there are doctors who are elbow-deep in the area of bodybuilding and physique augmentation. And man, when you find someone like that, you've really got something.

Thats great, but someone call me when size equals intelligence. Im not doubting this guy's background and knowledge, but Nandi certainly is no push over. Not to mention he is a powerlifter, who eats and trains much differently from a bodybuilder.

Dr. Eric Serrano on Glutamine:

Glutamine has made a big difference in my patients, especially their immune systems, and glutamine gets rid of colds; it helps your joints; and it can increase your strength in one day.

Wait, didnt even you state above that no one takes glutamine for its supposed boost of the immune system? This is certainly been dismissed.

People will ask me where I'm getting this information from, but I've been playing with 11 patients with different dosages. Here's what I've come up with: you need .35 grams per kilogram of body weight. And you take it in one dose an hour before a workout. Tell me what happens during your workout. I don't care what type of workout it is.

Im willing to try this.

Number two, I have found out, and this is very important, glutamine is a marker of overtraining. If I take people, and I have them write down their workouts, and if their glutamic acid/glutamine ratio is over 10 to one, that person was invariably getting sick or developing soreness, or their performance was going down.

Sorry, I just cant take his word for it. I havent taken it in years, when using adequate amounts of protein, flax oil, and liver tabs, the soreness subsides in 2-3 days. Of course, I doubt my basal glutamine levels are suppressed enough to make a difference, Im not a marathon runner.

I will tell you, papers are going to come out on it, because it's very interesting how this works. If the ratio is less than 10 to 1, you're overtraining. If I give you oral glutamine, you'll prevent overtraining. I have some theories about how it works, but I don't want to talk about them yet…if it works that way, great, but I don't want to give people the wrong idea.

Once again, Im interested, but Im doubting it. Were these people doing cardio? If so, what type? What was their dietary recall like? How much protein? Too many questions left unanswered.

Because the cost is so high, I wouldn't take it every day.

Ah geeez, now come on man. Let's be fair. The article above says it must be taken everyday until you work your way up to 20 grams. I suppose you must also keep plasma levels high or its useless? The cost is high, it has VERY low cost effectiveness. For 1 300 gram tub of glutamine, I can get 5lbs of Optimum 100% whey protein (77 servings). Not cost effective at all, for what functions it supposely serves. its not worth the $$$. Regardless of your income, its just not.

I might take a baseline dosage of 2 to 5 grams a day to keep my levels high, but if I'm going through an intensity phase or accumulation phase, like Charles Poliquin calls them, I will take a larger dosage—.35 grams (times body weight in kilograms) and divide it into two dosages; in the morning, an hour before the workout, and the other half before bedtime to preserve muscle while I'm sleeping.

But Milos says to make sure to take it post workout......

 

[YellowJacket]

Question of Strength
The real Master Blaster reveals
the science behind building muscle
by Charles Poliquin

Sounds like a FAQ for EAS glutamine..... where was this published? Just curious.

This, of course, is assuming that you're eating a diet that's more well-balanced than that eaten by the average guest on the Jerry Springer show.

Again, I dont know if he wants to be taken seriously, bu the 'cute' references to Springer, etc. make this a pretty unprofessional piece. Thats just a side not however.

• Glutamine, 30-70 grams per day

Oh, now its 70 grams of glutamine? Hey, thats practical.

• Branched-chain aminos/glutamine, taken while training, like Beverly International's Muscularity (800-781-3475)

LMAO! Oh now I see. A shameless plug for BI products. Oh god, how lame. I knew there was a motive behind the madness. Dont trust anything written by or for a supplement company, if we did, we'd all be using Liquid Creatine.

 

[John Benz]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Real world 'experience' will never replace hard science. The reasons these do not exist, is because there are none. No one can run a study on bodybuilders and find glutamine supplementation useful.

Wrong, real world experience is always the last word when it flies in the face of science, especially when the science is pseudo-science as you are spouting here. The only people I've heard downplay glutamine arew the mindless droves of message board followers, who believe anything any teenage wannabe guru with no lifting experience tells them just because he can cut and paste studies very nicely. The anti-glutamine articles you posted are very reason I don't attach much relevance to pub-med. Lots of studies; nothing relevant or near as practical as real world experience.

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Wow, Im shocked. Nandi is by no means a grad student. He has an MS yes and writes for several boards and journals I believe. To down play his education like that is pretty disrespectful. I would take his opinion over the kind of Synthol, Milos. Who needs glutamine when you have synthol? Nandi is by far in the top 5 of most intelligent members on all of the boards. You have been to CEM, you know what he does over there. Anyone who writes for T-Mag is simply confused. I cant believe someone treats T-Mag like the bible. Its all junk. One week they write an article and publish it on the amazing feats of glutamine, and a week later they print another calling glutamine useless, amazing.

Nandi is a very sharp guy, especially compared to your average message board teen. Comparing him to Sarcev is a joke. Milos may haved used synthol, but he has also forgotten more than Nandi will ever know. I'm shocked you put them in the same league. Nandi is knowledgeable for a message board guru. Show me when he can get an article published in T-Mag or any other mag. He is not in a class with any professional writer. Just shows your lack of experience. Remember, "Those who can't do .... teach." Show me his accomplishments. Those of Sarcev, Serrano and Poliquin are legendary. They are the ones who should feel insulted here.

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Any citations for these or do we just take his word for it? Because I have several abstracts done by top universities that say otherwise.

THEY ARE THEIR OWN CITATIONS! They are showing you their real world experience and citing results they have proven themselves on partients. They need no aids patient or lab rat references. keep rambling here, you are just proving your own lack of knowledge and experience.

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Unfortunately even though our body can synthesize this amino acid from the other amino acids (glutamic acid, isoleucin and valine) it appears that body's ability to produce Glutamine doesn't
replenishes what was lost during intense training or stress.

 

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by John Benz

Wrong, real world experience is always the last word when it flies in the face of science, especially when the science is pseudo-science as you are spouting here.

Wrong again. Science rules out placebo. When you pay a high dollar amount for supplements, you want to believe they work so bad that you talk yourself into 'gaining' just to avoid the heartache of wasting money. Some supplements work for some people, it doesnt work for others, so who's to decide? Science! Sure you can buy it and try it and if it doesnt work, great, but Im not going to go out and sample thousands of supplements to see which work, or else Id go try Liquid Creatine, but science tells me that creatine is no good suspended in water for an extended period of time. Science prevails everytime. And please, be my guest and point out my 'psuedo-science'. My abstracts and studies certainly hold more water than some T-Mag articles and some synthol abusing tool's own opinion.

The only people I've heard downplay glutamine arew the mindless droves of message board followers, who believe anything any teenage wannabe guru with no lifting experience tells them just because he can cut and paste studies very nicely. The anti-glutamine articles you posted are very reason I don't attach much relevance to pub-med. Lots of studies; nothing relevant or near as practical as real world experience.

Oh so this is personal now? I have no credibility because I dont believe in glutamine? Nice science behind that one. And PubMed is now useless because it contains articles that show glutamine to be useless, yet you dig and search your brains out to find a few that say its useful, and you did? Nice. I have a feeling this thread will be deleted soon.

Nandi is a very sharp guy, especially compared to your average message board teen. Comparing him to Sarcev is a joke. Milos may haved used synthol, but he has also forgotten more than Nandi will ever know. I'm shocked you put them in the same league. Nandi is knowledgeable for a message board guru. Show me when he can get an article published in T-Mag or any other mag. He is not in a class with any professional writer. Just shows your lack of experience. Remember, "Those who can't do .... teach." Show me his accomplishments. Those of Sarcev, Serrano and Poliquin are legendary. They are the ones who should feel insulted here.

Wow, they publish and write for T-Mag. The same guys who discuss the Biotest oral 4-AD year around bridge (LoL) and the guys who one week publish an anti-glutamine article and then the next week publish one pro-glutamine. And wait, this is the same magazine that cited sources for a pro-glutamine article that were actually dismissing glutamine! Haha.... remember that? oh wait, you deleted that thread. Nandi is brilliant, he needs no one to vouche for him, his work is published in journals and all over the net, including Mind&Muscle which, whether you like Avant Labs or not, is a very good online magazine. I would select that over T-Mag anyday for its raw, unbiased approach to hundreds of topics. They dont need a former pro to be paid to pimp and push products, T-Mag has little or no credibility, and its a shame, because like you mentioned, a couple of those guys are bright.

THEY ARE THEIR OWN CITATIONS! They are showing you their real world experience and citing results they have proven themselves on partients. They need no aids patient or lab rat references. keep rambling here, you are just proving your own lack of knowledge and experience.

Sorry, their citations arent good enough for me, or to prove your point. Jay Cutler gained 27bs on Cell Tech, so why not go buy some Cell Tech?

 

[windwords7]

MOD's please make sure this thread does not get deleted. Thanks!

 

[John Benz]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Wrong again. Science rules out placebo. When you pay a high dollar amount for supplements, you want to believe they work so bad that you talk yourself into 'gaining' just to avoid the heartache of wasting money. Some supplements work for some people, it doesnt work for others, so who's to decide? Science! Sure you can buy it and try it and if it doesnt work, great, but Im not going to go out and sample thousands of supplements to see which work, or else Id go try Liquid Creatine, but science tells me that creatine is no good suspended in water for an extended period of time. Science prevails everytime. And please, be my guest and point out my 'psuedo-science'. My abstracts and studies certainly hold more water than some T-Mag articles and some synthol abusing tool's own opinion.

It's always nice to call an extremely effective supplement a placebo. Over a million glutamine users are just experiencing placebo effect.

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Oh so this is personal now? I have no credibility because I dont believe in glutamine? Nice science behind that one. And PubMed is now useless because it contains articles that show glutamine to be useless, yet you dig and search your brains out to find a few that say its useful, and you did? Nice. I have a feeling this thread will be deleted soon.

Pubmed is a wonderful tool. It's up to the researcher to find RELEVANT studies and to cite references and show that they understand a little of what they are reading, and explain the relevance in practical terms as it pertains to the subject at hand.  I will go with real world knowlrdge from the experts, anytime.

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Wow, they publish and write for T-Mag. The same guys who discuss the Biotest oral 4-AD year around bridge (LoL) and the guys who one week publish an anti-glutamine article and then the next week publish one pro-glutamine. And wait, this is the same magazine that cited sources for a pro-glutamine article that were actually dismissing glutamine! Haha.... remember that? oh wait, you deleted that thread. Nandi is brilliant, he needs no one to vouche for him, his work is published in journals and all over the net, including Mind&Muscle which, whether you like Avant Labs or not, is a very good online magazine. I would select that over T-Mag anyday for its raw, unbiased approach to hundreds of topics. They dont need a former pro to be paid to pimp and push products, T-Mag has little or no credibility, and its a shame, because like you mentioned, a couple of those guys are bright.

Sorry, but T-Mag has worlds of credibility. They have some of the best articles on training and nutrition to be found anywhere. Nandi has never been published in any major mag or journal an simply is not in the same league with the 3 men I quoted.

 

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by John Benz

It's always nice to call an extremely effective supplement a placebo. Over a million glutamine users are just experiencing placebo effect. Riiiiigght. If it makes the little cut and paste man feel better.

Over a million? Can I see a reference to that? Or is that a random number? Because thats a lot of people.

No, you have NO credibility because you have experience. Pubmed is a wonderful tool. It's up to the researcher to find RELEVANT studies and to cite references and show that they understand a little of what they are reading, and explain the relevance in practical terms as it pertains to the subject at hand. You just paste up a random bunch of irrelevant glutamine studies and they prove nothing. I will go with real world knowlrdge from the experts, anytime.

Probably got that a little backwards, but as far as the cutting and pasting, sorry brother, but thats what sites like PubMed & Medline are for. I guess I could type it all out so it wouldnt technically be a cut & paste, but I dont have the time. You take real world experience, I do also. From those who have credibility. Not from someone pushing or pimping it and citing T-Mag articles. In the end, science wins, once again.

Sorry, son, but T-Mag has worlds of credibility. They have some of the best articles on training and nutrition to be found anywhere. Nandi has never been published in any major mag or journal an simply is not in the same league with the 3 men I quoted. You can rant away, boy, but facts is facts. And the fact that you even list nandi in the same sentence with those 3 shows your inexperience, nothing more;nothing less.

I disagree. They are very biased towards the products they sell (naturally) and they write contradicting articles, and cite sources that are actually going against the point they're trying to prove. Anyone can hire some washed up bodybuilders and persuade them or pay them to talk about how awesome a supplement is, **** look at Cutler, he uses cell tech! As far as Nandi goes, like I said, rag on him, but he's probably the most intelligent, helpful, unbiased member of any message board, not to mention he writes material for things beyond threads of message boards, you fail to realize that, maybe if you'd put down T-Mag and read some real studies and articles, you'd think differently.

 

[windwords7]

This thread done. Leave it as it is. Thanks.