Supplements for tendon and ligament elasticity?
- 09-26-2005, 05:25 PM
Supplements for tendon and ligament elasticity?
I am wondering if anyone has heard of any supplements with the purported benefit of addind/repairing elasticity in tendons and ligaments.
I realize there are a number of supplements that decrease tendon and ligament inflammation but I am actually talking about a return of elasticity.
I have noticed over the last year that though I have no difficulty steatching certain body parts (like calves for example) it seems like my lower legs have a lot less "spring" to them.
- 09-26-2005, 06:02 PM
- 09-26-2005, 07:19 PM
The very best is Omega Sports Flex Support. Get two bottles of this stuff and you will notice the difference. And it doesn't take months to go into effect like glucosamine does.MOTIV8 II Challenge
-=The Big Squirrel Nut Swingers=-
09-26-2005, 07:44 PM
I believe that Cissus Quadralangis is used for this purpose. Check out Synergy Muscle.com
09-26-2005, 07:45 PM
Elasticity?? that would be stretching but for tendon strength and health there is Cissus RX.Originally Posted by Mr.50
09-26-2005, 07:50 PM
09-26-2005, 09:13 PM
Cissus RX is an awesome product. I've used flax oil, fish oil, glucosamine and msm all simultaneously with no results, but as soon as I added cissus into the mix I experienced relief within a few weeks time.
09-26-2005, 09:16 PM
buy 2 bottles of cissus and give it a little time.
but glucosamine/chondroitin/msm can't hurt--it's dirt cheap.
09-26-2005, 09:18 PM
I just received a bottle of Cissus and will be starting tomorrow. Have used Omega Flex with good effect for soreness and pain in joints but I guess what I am talking about is that I box ofter and I used to be pretty light on my feet with quick movements and I always felt that I could really bounce off of my legs into a punch. Now since I have experienced this soreness in my ankles it just seems like even when the pain goes away my calves just don't have that much bounce. Sort of like the type of elastic explosive strength that is developed from plyometric training even if it is independant to isotonic strength like lifting.
09-26-2005, 09:21 PM
Alright I am excited about starting the Cissus!
09-26-2005, 10:43 PM
Cissus will help with the pain but won't significantly increase flexibility/"springiness". I noticed that numerous ph/ps and anti-e cycles worsened the condition. But after over half a year off I've noticed better movement/explosiveness.
09-26-2005, 11:32 PM
I have heard somewhere that strength comes from muscle cell contraction but the explosiveness comes from tendons ability (or lack thereof) to convert ecentric force into concentric force. It is strange that aas, ps/ph, and AI could increase muscle contractile force but negatively effect explosive power output, but I have anecdotally noticed that also and have heard it from others????
Originally Posted by ersatz
09-27-2005, 12:29 PM
The commonly held belief is that the rate at which steroids increase muscle strength exceeds that of tendon strength leading to tendon injuries. But there are some studies showing AAS cause collagen dysplasia: it causes a high ratio of type III collagen to type I collagen. Studies seem to contradict one another and most are on rats but may still be pertinent.
Int J Sports Med. 2000 Aug;21(6):406-11. Related Articles, Links
The effect of supraphysiological doses of anabolic androgenic steroids on collagen metabolism.
Parssinen M, Karila T, Kovanen V, Seppala T.
National Public Health Institute, Laboratory of Substance Abuse, Helsinki, Finland. email@example.com
We examined the effect of supraphysiological doses of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) on collagen metabolism and whether the changes reflect the alterations in muscle, bone, and tendon collagen metabolism, possibly in a tissue-specific manner. Serum carboxyterminal propeptide of type I procollagen (PICP), carboxyterminal telopeptide of type I collagen (ICTP), aminoterminal propeptide of type III procollagen (PIIINP), urine hydroxylysylpyridinoline (HP), and lysylpyridinoline (LP) as well as urine creatinine were determined from 17 men abusing AAS. Measurements were made twice during the intake of AAS and twice during the subsequent withdrawal period. When the volunteers were on steroids, their serum PIIINP concentrations and urine HP/LP ratio were significantly higher and their serum ICTP concentrations were significantly lower than during the withdrawal period (p < 0.05). Serum PIIINP correlated with total cumulative doses of injectable intramuscular steroids, and serum ICTP correlated with the duration of the steroid intake period (p<0.05). The results suggest that high doses of AAS decrease the degradation and seem to increase the synthesis of type I collagen. Furthermore, high doses of AAS are suggested to enhance soft tissue collagen metabolism on the basis of increased type III collagen synthesis and elevated HP/LP ratio during the steroid administration period. Although the tissue-specific turnover of collagen of soft connective tissues remains unknown, the turnover of bone collagen seems not to change following the use of high doses of AAS, at least within the time interval of the present study.
PMID: 10961515 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
: Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1991 Jan;23(1):1-3. Related Articles, Links
Anabolic steroid-induced tendon pathology: a review of the literature.
Laseter JT, Russell JA.
Joe W. King Orthopedic Institute, Houston, TX 77030.
Anabolic steroids have attained a prominent, albeit highly controversial, position among ergogenic aids for power athletes. Adverse effects of these compounds are well documented, but their popularity persists. One of their possible side effects which has received little attention is abnormal form and function of connective tissue in steroid-abusing athletes. Scientific and medical literature addressing this concern is scant and is generally limited to observed effects in animals. Anabolic steroid use paralleled with exercise may lead to dysplasia of collagen fibrils, which can decrease the tensile strength of tendon. Changes in tendon's crimp morphology have been shown to occur, as well, which may alter the rupturing strain of tendon and the normal biomechanics of the extremities. Given the megadoses of steroids taken by some athletes and the large forces incurred by power-trained musculature, the integrity of tendinous tissue in these athletes may be at significant risk of compromise if steroids do, in fact, exert a destructive effect. Additional investigation in the area reviewed here is warranted before anabolic steroids can be decisively implicated in human connective tissue disruption. It is recommended, however, that consideration be given to including potential tissue alterations among the side effects of steroid abuse.
09-27-2005, 12:58 PM
09-27-2005, 02:54 PM
So update us on that stuff because my biceps tendons are sore as hell.
09-27-2005, 03:03 PM
Stuff like grape seed extract is supposed to spur collagen synthesis and from what I can tell, it does. Skin texture gets subtely smoother when on it.
All in all, stretching and maintaining elasticity has been my biggest hurtle when bulking up. Forced stretches, IMO, are the only thing that will reliably lengthen tendons and induced micro tears that spur collagen repair. Things like Celadrin my help facilitate this but getting older is getting older..it sucks, lol. I noticed signifcant tendon repair from IGF r3...but I never maintain my stretching routine so it was lost.
I used to be able to jump into the splits and jump kick the top of a door frame 15 years ago, now I can hardly touch my toes.
09-27-2005, 09:45 PM
age is a real mf'er and I am not even that old yet (thoug I feel old)
09-28-2005, 01:42 AM
Even at 33..it's hittin me, lol. Got my chiropractor appointment tomorrow..thank God.
09-28-2005, 08:59 AM
You old bastards just complain and complain
09-28-2005, 10:35 AM
But I want to stay young and beautiful forever!!
Alright, well one out of two ain't bad.
09-28-2005, 11:03 AM
Guys, while I can attest to the benenefits of Cissus and MSM, there is something else that I feel will help greatly. It is a far infrared mineral therapeutic lamp. While they help greatly w/elasticity, they can also yield plasticity (permanent stretch) all while strengthening ligs and tendons. They are also amazing for pain management.
Other Therapeutic Effects of Infrared Heat:
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The following information has been summarized from Chapter 9 of Therapeutic Heat and Cold, Fourth Edition, Editors Justus F. Lehmann, M.D., Williams, and Wilkin, or concluded from data gathered there.
Generally it is accepted that heat produces the following desirable therapeutic effects:
1. Infrared heat increases the extensibility of collagen tissues.
Tissues heated to 45 degrees Celsius and then stretched exhibit a nonelastic residual elongation of about 0.5 to 0.9 percent that persists after the stretch is removed. This does not occur in these same tissues when stretched at normal tissue temperatures. Therefore 20 stretching sessions can produce a 10 to 18 percentage increase in length of tissues heated and stretched.
Stretching of tissue in the presence of heat would be especially valuable in working with ligaments, joint capsules, tendons, fasciae, and synoviurn that have become scarred, thickened, or contracted. Such stretching at 45 degrees Celsius caused much less weakening in stretched tissues for a given elongation than a similar elongation produced at normal tissue temperatures.
Experiments cited clearly showed low-force stretching could produce significant residual elongation when heat is applied together with stretching or range-of-motion exercises. This is safer than stretching tissues at normal tissue temperatures.
2. Infrared heat decreases joint stiffness.
There was a 20 percent decrease in rheumatoid finger joint stiffness at 45 degrees Celsius (112 degrees Fahrenheit) as compared with 33 degrees Celsius (92 degrees Fahrenheit), which correlated perfectly to both subjective and objective observation of stiffness. Speculation has it that any stiffened joint and thickened connective tissues may respond in a similar fashion.
3. Infrared heat relieves muscle spasms.
Muscle spasms have long been observed to be reduced through the use of heat, be they secondary to underlying skeletal, joint, or neuropathological conditions. This result is possibly produced by the combined effect of heat on both primary and secondary afferent nerves from spindle cells and from its effects on Golgi tendon organs. The results produced demonstrated their peak effect within the therapeutic temperature range obtainable with radiant heat.
4. Infrared heat treatment leads to pain relief.
Pain may be relieved via the reduction of attendant or secondary spasms. Pain is also at times related to ischemia (lack of blood supply) due to tension or spasm that can be improved by the hyperemia that heat-induced vasodilatation produces, thus breaking the feedback loop in which the ischemia leads to further spasm and then more pain.
Heat has been shown to reduce pain sensation by direct action on both free-nerve endings in tissues and on peripheral nerves. In one dental study, repeated heat applications led finally to abolishment of the whole nerve response responsible for pain arising from dental pulp.
Heat may lead to both increased endorphin production and a shutting down of the so called "spinal gate" of Melzack and Wall, each of which can reduce pain.
Localized infrared therapy using lamps tuned to the 2 to 25 micron waveband is used for the treatment and relief of pain by over 40 reputable Chinese medical institutes.
5. Infrared heat increases blood flow.
Heating one area of the body produces reflex-modulated vasodilators in distant-body areas, even in the absence of a change in core body temperature. Heat one extremity and the contralateral extremity also dilates; heat a forearm and both lower extremities dilate; heat the front of the trunk and the hand dilates.
Heating muscles produces an increased blood flow level similar to that seen during exercise. Temperature elevation also produces an increased blood flow and dilation directly in capillaries, arterioles, and venules, probably through direct action on their smooth muscles. The release of bradykinin, released as a consequence of sweat-gland activity, also produces increased blood flow and vasodilatation.
Whole-body hyperthermia, with a consequent core temperature elevation, further induces vasodilatation via a hypothalamic-induced decrease in sympathetic tone on the arteriovenous anastomoses. Vasodilatation is also produced by axonal reflexes that change vasomotor balance.
6. Infrared heat assists in resolution of inflammatory infiltrates, edema, and exudates.
Increased peripheral circulation provides the transport needed to help evacuate edema, which can help inflammation, decrease pain, and help speed healing.
7. Infrared heat introduced in cancer therapy.
More recently, infrared heat has been used in cancer therapy. This is a new experimental procedure that shows great promise in some cases when used properly. American researchers favor careful monitoring of the tumor temperature; whereas, the successes reported in Japan make no mention of such precaution.
8. Infrared heat affects soft tissue injury.
Infrared healing is now becoming a leading edge care for soft tissue injuries to promote both relief in chronic or intractable "permanent" cases, and accelerated healing in newer injuries.
Chinese Studies Report Positive Effects of Infrared Heat
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Researchers report over 90 percent success in a summary of Chinese studies that assessed the effects of infrared heat therapy on:
Japanese Studies on the Positive Effects of Infrared Heat
- Soft tissue injury
- Lumbar strain
- Periarthritis of the shoulder
- Pain during menstruation
- Eczema with infection
- Post-surgical infections
- Facial paralysis (Bell's Palsy)
- Pelvic infection
- Pediatric pneumonia
- Frostbite with inflammation
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As reported in Infrared Therapy by Dr. Yamajaki, Japanese researchers have produced the following provocative results with whole-body infrared heat:
Speculation about Infrared Heat Effects on Blood Circulation
- Burns (relieves pain and decreases healing time with less scarring)
- High blood pressure (safe in 40 to 50 degrees Celsius, 104 to 122 degrees Fahrenheit, regular use helps lower pressure)
- Low blood pressure (sauna trains the body to raise the pressure)
- Brain damage (accelerated repair in brain contusions)
- Short-term memory loss (improved)
- Cancer of the tongue (improved)
- Toxic electromagnetic fields (effects neutralized)
- Cerebral hemorrhage (speeds and significantly enhances recovery)
- Arthritis, acute and chronic (greatly relieved)
- Gouty arthritis (relieved)
- Rheumatoid Arthritis (relieved)
- Menopausal symptoms (relieved chills, nervousness, depression, dizziness, head- and stomachaches)
- Weight loss (produced through sweating, the energy expended to produce sweating, and through direct excretion of fat)
- Auto accident-related soft tissue injury (daily sessions used until best healing attained, then used to deal with permanent residuals; pain control for chronic residuals lasted three days before another treatment was necessary)
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All of the following ailments may be associated to some degree with poor circulation and, thus, may respond well to increased peripheral dilation associated with infrared treatment:
- Nervous tension
- Children's overtired muscles
- Varicose veins
- Strained muscles
- Stretch marks
- Menstrual cramps
- Upset stomach
- Leg and decubitus ulcers (that fail to heal using conventional approaches)
- Postoperative edema (treatment has proven so effective hospital stays were reduced by 25 percent)
- Peripheral occlusive disease ("The goal is to maintain an optimal blood flow rate to the affected part...In general the temperature should be maintained at the highest level, which does not increase the circulatory discrepancy as shown by cyanosis and pain." Therapeutic Heat and Cold, pp. 456-457.)
09-28-2005, 11:06 AM
So I'm sold. Where does one get an infrared stretching lamp?
09-28-2005, 11:52 AM
I did some brief searching for those infrared lamps and it does appear to help stretch ligaments. The only posts I could see touting it's effectiveness dealt with penis enlargment. Apparently they use it to stretch the ligaments thus elongating one's wang. If you search those various PE forums you'll come across some recommended brands and where to acquire them. I guess it might be worth trying depending on the cost of the apparatus.
09-28-2005, 11:58 AM
There's a few studies on horses that seem to support IGF-1 induced tendon repair. A few anecdotal reports confirm this in humans as well.Originally Posted by bioman
J Orthop Res. 2002 Sep;20(5):910-9. Related Articles, Links
Insulin-like growth factor-I improves cellular and molecular aspects of healing in a collagenase-induced model of flexor tendinitis.
Dahlgren LA, van der Meulen MC, Bertram JE, Starrak GS, Nixon AJ.
Department of Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Veterinary Medical Center, Ithaca, NY 14853, USA.
Flexor tendinitis is a common and debilitating injury of elite and recreational athletes. Healing may be improved through intratendinous injection of insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), which has been shown in vitro to stimulate mitogenesis and enhance tendon matrix production. This study investigated the effects of intratendinous injection of IGF-I on tendon healing in an equine model of flexor tendinitis. Collagenase-induced lesions were created in the tensile region of theflexor digitorum superficialis tendon of both forelimbs of eight horses. Treated tendons were injected with 2 microg rhlGF-I intralesionally every other day for 10 injections, while controls received 0.9% NaCl. Tendon fiber deposition and organization were evaluated serially using ultrasonography throughout the 8 week trial period. Following euthanasia, the tendons were harvested and DNA, hydroxyproline, and glycosaminoglycan content determined, mechanical strength and stiffness evaluated, gene expression and spatial arrangement of collagen types I and III assessed by northern blot and in situ hybridization, and tendon fiber architecture assessed by polarized light microscopy. Local soft tissue swelling was reduced in the IGF-I treated limbs. Similarly, lesion size in IGF-I treated tendons was smaller 3 and 4 weeks after initiation of treatment. Cell proliferation and collagen content of the IGF-I treated tendons were increased compared to controls. Mechanically, IGF-I treated tendons showed a trend toward increased stiffness compared to saline treated controls. Considered together with the decreased soft tissue swelling and improved sonographic healing, these data support the potential use of intralesional IGF-I for treatment of debilitating tendon injuries.
PMID: 12382953 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Am J Vet Res. 1997 Jan;58(1):103-9. Related Articles, Links
Biochemical and site-specific effects of insulin-like growth factor I on intrinsic tenocyte activity in equine flexor tendons.
Murphy DJ, Nixon AJ.
Comparative Orthopaedics Laboratory, College of Veterinary Medicine, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To examine the site-specific and dose-dependent effects of insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) on normal equine tendon in vitro. SAMPLES: Superficial digital flexor tendon explants derived from a euthanatized 3-year-old horse. PROCEDURE: Explants in culture were treated with 0, 100, 250, or 500 ng of IGF-I/ml for 14 days with an end-stage radiolabel of 20 microCi of [3H]proline/ml or 5 microCi of [3H]thymidine/ml. The tendon tissues were then analyzed biochemically for hydroxyproline content by reverse-phase high-performance liquid chromatography, DNA content by fluorometry, and glycosaminoglycan content by the dimethylmethylene blue dye-binding assay. In addition, morphologic analysis of the explants comprised histologic examination, autoradiography, and immunohistochemistry. RESULTS: Hydroxyproline content was significantly increased in explants treated with 100 and 250 ng of IGF-I/ml. Additionally, the collagen synthetic rate, measured by incorporation of [3H]proline into hydroxyproline, was significantly increased for all treatment groups. On the basis of autoradiograms, fibroblast proliferation and collagen synthesis were predominantly confined to the endcap and adjacent endotenon of the explants. Enhanced immunoreactivity for type-I collagen, compared with type-III collagen, was evident in the treated explants, an observation supported by positive staining for type-I collagen with picrosirius red. Histologically, treated explants contained greater numbers of larger and more metabolically active fibroblasts, compared with untreated controls. CONCLUSION: IGF-I enhances collagen synthesis in normal equine flexor tendon in a dose-dependent manner. IGF-I also exerts its primary effect on cell proliferation and collagen synthesis in the epitenon and adjacent endotenon and accompanying perivascular connective tissues, consistent with enhancement of intrinsic tendon metabolism. CLINICAL RELEVANCE: IGF-I may have a potential role in the treatment of tendinitis in horses.
PMID: 8989505 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
09-28-2005, 02:11 PM
09-28-2005, 02:20 PM
LOL. Awesome. I get to bask under a heat lamp like a lizard. What's not to love?
Accupuncture and deep tissue realignment really seem to help me. As far as actual effects on the tendons..I have noidea but at least there is a greater comfort level and increased range of motion.
09-28-2005, 02:36 PM
Hehe. I am also seeing a great deal of yoga spas (yeah, I know) are heating up their studios with far infrared bulbs and encourage workouts in 113 degree heat. Makes sense to me.
09-28-2005, 06:11 PM
got my cissus rx in the mail today, we shall c what all the hype is about. my forearms right near the radiobrachialis is a huge problem for me on both arms, kinda runs in the family. if this fixes it, i will cry
03-02-2011, 09:52 AM
found this interesting, figured we could start it back up
08-09-2013, 11:55 PM
Solid advice from Bionic on page 1. I bought infrared lamp - infraphil hp3616, and it works. I only did 2 sessions x 10 minutes and the pain that I had in my left elbow for 3 months is gone.
08-10-2013, 11:02 AM
iForce Joint Help is a great product and one of its ingredients is Cissus Quadrangularis which is used for healing/repairing tendons,ligaments. If you have a stretched ligament though I don't think it will go back to it's normal or original state. Strong bump.
08-12-2013, 08:21 AM
Very strong bump, although interesting reading. Might have to try it in conjunction with iForce's Joint Help.
07-07-2014, 10:24 PM
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