*Liver Tab FAQ*

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    Yeah - the gas is horrendous. Thanks for the ginger root tip! But damn - Ive been taking UniLiver (15pills/day) ever since I started lifting, and I swear by them. I think the biggest benefit from these little nuggets is the increased recovery time - Hell If I could pick only one supp - it would be UniLiver hands down.

    The reason why you never hear about it because other companies will try to sell you 'Super Mega Man Mass Gain Stacks' at quadruple the price, and all they're trying to do is mimic the effects of a $12 can of UniLiver.

    BigV

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    yeah I took liver tabs and went out drinking with my friend and these two girls and id go to the bathroom to fart because it smelled SO BAD. I mean it was really that bad!
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    The gas can get bad, but I always blame it on somebody else in my general orbit. By the way Im thinking of taking Unverisals Liver Tabs "between" meals, not with them. I think this way I can always have a steady flow of Aminos acids, and nutrients to my sweet sweet precious muscles. YJ do you think this will pose a problem, or should I continue to take them with my meals? Are they absorbed better with meals
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    They're better absorbed with meals, but if you're drinking a good amount of water, they'll be absorbed fine on an empty or partially empty stomach.
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    I'm not a trouble maker I just can't resist...

    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    What are liver tabs exactly?
    Liver tabs are high quality, premium pharmaceutical grade glandular substance derived from hormone free, grass fed Argentine beef.
    What are liver tabs intended for?
    Liver tabs are designed to promote optimal muscle growth, a quicker recovery from intense exercise, increae in strength gains, provide the body with vitamins and minerals to function on a daily basis and imrpove over all performance.
    What exactly is in liver tabs?
    Liver tabs contains small amounts of protein, but are intended to provide the body with essential and non-essential amino acids, a wide variety of vitamins and minerals. Vitamins like A, C, D, K, E and the ENTIRE b-complex vitamins, iron, copper, zinc etc.
    What is the best brand of liver tabs and where can I get them? In my opinion Universal's Uni-Liver is by far the best dessicated liver tab product on the market. You can get them at most supplement stores on-line, dpsnutrition.com has the best price, 500 liver tabs for $10.
    Ok, I looked at http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/liver.html and while they mention all that stuff you mentioned there over on the part that says whats in it they don't say anything about zinc. So is it there or not? Also there is some crap in there I don't understand like PABA. Humans don't use it for anything so unless we are trying to help our natural flora produce more folic acid I don't get it. This isn't just a problem w/liver tabs, the stuff is in nearly ever multi.


    Do liver tabs have any side effect?
    Everything in liver tabs comes from nature, so there are NO direct side effects. The only possible side effect could be toxicity of the fat soluble vitamins over time. Thats why no more than 24 each day is recommended.
    It doesn't bother you that the liver is the detox organ of the body? Not worried about 'other' things in there that the happy argentenian cows are trying to remove from their bodys. I understand it as they grind these livers up, flash freeze them, then make pills out of them.


    Can liver tabs replace amino acids tabs?
    The answer to this is YES, save your money, buy liver tabs as they can replace amino acid tablets, Extra b-complex tablets, a multi vitamin and even ZMA with the added zinc it has. Liver tabs contain enough amino acids combined with a healthy diet to totally eliminate another supplement of amino acids.
    Now wait a minute...aren't you the anti-glutaminist? How you gonna back taking amino acid tabs but not glutamine. You argue you get plenty of glutamine from whey, but then you are gonna tell people to take amino tabs? That makes no sense, its the same theory! If glutamine is useless amino acid tabs are too. And if amino acid tabs are useless I fail to see how liver tabs are better than a multivitamin.


    Who should take liver tabs? Are they for newbies?
    Liver tabs are all natural and are for ANYONE who wants to achieve mass gains, strength gains and a strong immune system. I knwo a few people who do not ever train and still supplement with liver tabs, vegetarains supplement with liver tabs to get their essential amino acids. From the most experienced lifter to the new guy on the block, liver tabs are for everyone. Liver tabs are old school and the reason they have been around since the 50s is because they work.
    When do I use liver tabs?
    Liver tabs are good for both cutting and bulking. Bulking to aid in recovery from those heavy, long workouts and to get you full of good aminos. Cutting because they contain amino acids that will help guard in muscle loss due to cardio. B-complex to synthesis the large amount of protein you ingest in both cutting and bulking. Most users use them year around, as do I, and they are affordable enough where you can do so.
    This is kinda the same deal, how is this better than whey and a multi? Maybe because you are only taking a couple at a time and it gives you a better chance for assimilation? Thats the only plus I can find. Just to compare liver tabs have 20 micrograms thiamine while my multi has 25 miligrams. Thats 25000 micrograms.


    Can I get mad cow disease from liver tabs? or any other disease?
    Before liver tabs go into the freezing process to be formed and kept preserved, the actual meat is checked for anything possible signs of a disease or bacteria. So the answer is no, is not likely at all you will acquire anything from liver tabs
    Just for the record bovine spongiform encepholopathy (mad cow disease) is a prion disease meaning it is caused by rogue proteins that act to recruit other proteins to convert to their rogue structure. Its not a bacteria or virus...its actually hard to say what it is. They aren't killed by heat and cold. You probably wont get it from liver tabs but I just thought that was an interesting little tidbit.


    Can you tell me personally what you've gotten from taking liver tabs?
    I am probably the biggest liver tablet advocate on the internet. I have been using these for years now for several reasons, first is the price can be beat, Im a grad student and dont have money to waste on supplements that might work. Secondly I can tell a significant increase in the rate my muscles are able to recover and I feel much stronger and more hard after supplementing with liver tabs. Lastely, liver tabs replace a lot of other supplements out there, why not pack everything your body needs into a few tabs a day?
    * * If you have anymore questions or if I left anything out, post it, thanks, YJ
    this sounds a lot like the Jay Cutler uses it argument. Not picking on you or your baby, but for someone that rips glutamine so hard I can't see you being a fan of these...the theory behind the two sounds really close to me.

    If there is more info than what is presented here I'm willing to listen. But for now I'll stick w/whey and a multi.

    J
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    Re: Re: *Liver Tab FAQ*


    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Jay Mc
    [B]

    Ok, I looked at http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/liver.html and while they mention all that stuff you mentioned there over on the part that says whats in it they don't say anything about zinc. So is it there or not? Also there is some crap in there I don't understand like PABA. Humans don't use it for anything so unless we are trying to help our natural flora produce more folic acid I don't get it. This isn't just a problem w/liver tabs, the stuff is in nearly ever multi.
    All you had to do was look up the supplement facts:

    Supplement Facts:
    Serving Size: 2 Tablets (60 grain)
    Servings Per Container: 125
    Amount Per Serving % DV*
    Calories 7
    Protein 1.7g 4%
    Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) 40 mcg 3%
    Vitmain B2 (Riboflavin) 400 mcg 24%
    Niacin 2 mg 10%
    Vitmain B6 (Pyridoxine) 80 mcg 4%
    Vitmain B12 24 mcg 400%
    Folic Acid 52 mcg 13%
    Biotin 10 mcg 3%
    Para-Aminobenzoic Acid 26 mcg **
    Choline 80 mg **
    Inositol 14 mg **

    Other ingredients:
    Dessicated bovine liver, whey, terra alba, choline citrate, inositol monophosphate, niacinamide, magnesium stearate, stearic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamin monophosphate, para-aminobenzoic acid, and cyanacobalamin.

    Typical Amino Acid Profile (Per 120 Grains of Liver):
    L-Arginine† 240 mg **
    L-Leucine† 400 mg **
    L-Isoleucine† 240 mg **
    L-Valine† 280 mg **
    L-Lysine† 380 mg **
    L-Histidine† 12 mg **
    L-Tryptophan† 50 mg **
    L-Methionine† 110 mg **
    L-Threonine† 180 mg **
    L-Phenylalanine† 220 mg **
    L-Tyrosine 160 mg **
    L-Cystine 54 mg **
    *Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. **Daily Value not established.


    Thought that was common sense, I suppose not.



    It doesn't bother you that the liver is the detox organ of the body? Not worried about 'other' things in there that the happy argentenian cows are trying to remove from their bodys. I understand it as they grind these livers up, flash freeze them, then make pills out of them.
    Oh, have never heard this one before Let's flash back to grade school and reeducate ourselves on what cattle eat. Grass! Now, in your honest, eductaed, opinion, do you think Argentine grass is going to damage the liver? Doesnt really matter, until you can find me some testimonials of family members of deceased liver tabs users, then I guess you have no case, once again.



    Now wait a minute...aren't you the anti-glutaminist? How you gonna back taking amino acid tabs but not glutamine. You argue you get plenty of glutamine from whey, but then you are gonna tell people to take amino tabs? That makes no sense, its the same theory! If glutamine is useless amino acid tabs are too. And if amino acid tabs are useless I fail to see how liver tabs are better than a multivitamin.
    Liver tabs possess more than amino acids (did you fail to look at the contents?), not only that, but the amino acids they contain are more than glutamine. Its not the same theory, you're way off.


    This is kinda the same deal, how is this better than whey and a multi? Maybe because you are only taking a couple at a time and it gives you a better chance for assimilation? Thats the only plus I can find. Just to compare liver tabs have 20 micrograms thiamine while my multi has 25 miligrams. Thats 25000 micrograms.
    Do multi's contain protein? Most multi's dont contain B complex. Do multi's contain amino acids? I feel like Im arguing with pjorstad.


    Just for the record bovine spongiform encepholopathy (mad cow disease) is a prion disease meaning it is caused by rogue proteins that act to recruit other proteins to convert to their rogue structure. Its not a bacteria or virus...its actually hard to say what it is. They aren't killed by heat and cold. You probably wont get it from liver tabs but I just thought that was an interesting little tidbit.
    You should be banned for failing to read around the board before posting, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt since you're trying hard. This has been discussed in full length in another thread. Exactly how there's no way you can get MCD from liver tabs. Please, do us a favor and read and research before you waste my time.


    this sounds a lot like the Jay Cutler uses it argument. Not picking on you or your baby, but for someone that rips glutamine so hard I can't see you being a fan of these...the theory behind the two sounds really close to me.
    And who are you? Exactly, I have compiled a great number of testimonials on these, that once again you have failed to read. No one sponsors liver tabs. I guess I ruined your day by flaming glutamine, I apologize, but no need to take up room in this thread over it. Just pick a new supplement to pimp.

    If there is more info than what is presented here I'm willing to listen. But for now I'll stick w/whey and a multi.
    There's much more info. and I suggest you find it, regardless of if you use them or not, I dont think thats going to damage their credibility. Good day.
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    I'm not trying to start a fight, I just don't see the difference between liver tabs and taking whey and a multi except that whey has way more aminos and the multi has higher concentrations of minerals (as well as a greater diversity) and micronutrients. To say the liver tabs have a significant amount of aminos is kinda silly...2.3g in every two tabs?

    Here is my problem and the question you never addressed. How can you support taking a variety of amino acid supplements but malign taking glutamine. Also, in your glutamine thread you said testimonials of people who had a placebo effect don't mean anything to you, but for liver tabs they do?

    You can ignore everything above and just answer this: what do liver tabs provide me that taking a multivitamin and taking whey protein wont.

    You said multi's don't have amino's. Thats true they don't but whey protein is full of them.

    You said liver tabs could replace ZMA but I don't see how since there is no zinc in them.

    I'm not uneducated. May 12th I'll have a BS w/a double major in Biology and Chemistry. Following that I'll be starting medschool. I currently work for a busy 911 system as a paramedic. I scored a 31R on the MCAT. I promise I'm not an idiot.

    Instead of making personal attacks on me and calling me a newbie why don't you address some of the issues I brought up. I read through a lot of old posts and found no information differing from that presented in this thread. Since this thread is titled Liver Tab FAQ I thought this would be a good place to ask them. Maybe I'm just bad at computers...oh, and if you want your text to stop being bolded when making multi quotes close the bold tag inside the quote tag (computers are hard, its ok).

    I got the impression this board was about sharing and discussing body building information and ideas. I would like to discuss liver tabs not have my intelligence questioned. If thats a problem I'll be more than happy to leave yellowjacketminds.com.

    J
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    Originally posted by Jay Mc
    I'm not trying to start a fight, I just don't see the difference between liver tabs and taking whey and a multi except that whey has way more aminos and the multi has higher concentrations of minerals (as well as a greater diversity) and micronutrients. To say the liver tabs have a significant amount of aminos is kinda silly...2.3g in every two tabs?
    As compared to multis, since it was your idea to compare the two. Almost as silly as comparing liver tabs to glutamine huh? Not to mention people take many more than 2 tabs. I have been taking 18-20 for awhile now, you do the math.

    Here is my problem and the question you never addressed. How can you support taking a variety of amino acid supplements but malign taking glutamine. Also, in your glutamine thread you said testimonials of people who had a placebo effect don't mean anything to you, but for liver tabs they do?
    To compare one abundant amino acid to the rest of amino acids isnt even a point I will argue for the pure ignorance behind it. The testimonials were merely to stress not only do they look good and beneficial on paper, but people actually see results with it. Unlike glutamine, liver tabs actually have a solid result that can be seen. An increase in strength and recovery time, glutamine- cell volumizing? soft tissue repair? (recovery). I stand by liver tabs not only because if you breakdown the ingredients they are proven effective, but also because I have used them for sometime. If you use glutamine and feel results great, but can you rule out placebo with science? Nope.

    You can ignore everything above and just answer this: what do liver tabs provide me that taking a multivitamin and taking whey protein wont.
    Does your multi have B complex? Is your whey portable? Whey is pretty much a staple in the bodybuilding world, I think we can agree on that, and liver tabs are a supplement, to supplement your diet. What does your whey have that your meal plan doesnt? What does your multi have that your meal plan doesnt? Why even take whey or a multi? They are supplements, to supplement a, hopefully already effective, diet.

    You said multi's don't have amino's. Thats true they don't but whey protein is full of them.
    Good call, so are meats, and many other foods. See above.

    You said liver tabs could replace ZMA but I don't see how since there is no zinc in them.
    People still use ZMA? Oh, I didnt realize people still wasted money on that.

    I'm not uneducated. May 12th I'll have a BS w/a double major in Biology and Chemistry. Following that I'll be starting medschool. I currently work for a busy 911 system as a paramedic. I scored a 31R on the MCAT. I promise I'm not an idiot.
    Im supposed to be impressed? Im just forming an opinion based on shrewd observations from your previous posts. If you do not want to be labeled an idiot, dont post like one.

    Instead of making personal attacks on me and calling me a newbie why don't you address some of the issues I brought up. I read through a lot of old posts and found no information differing from that presented in this thread.
    You are labeled a newbie because you refuse to read previously posted information here. And yes it is here, trust me, I posted it.


    Since this thread is titled Liver Tab FAQ I thought this would be a good place to ask them. Maybe I'm just bad at computers...oh, and if you want your text to stop being bolded when making multi quotes close the bold tag inside the quote tag (computers are hard, its ok).
    Actually, I have done that and to no avail. I figure I would know how to operate one. Maybe you should stick to computer work, since you're obviously not prepared or educated enough to post here.

    I got the impression this board was about sharing and discussing body building information and ideas. I would like to discuss liver tabs not have my intelligence questioned. If thats a problem I'll be more than happy to leave yellowjacketminds.com.
    Now come on pjorstad, this board differs greatly from anorexicguy.net. You may be greatly respected at your board, but brother, here you're starting all over again. yellowjacketminds.com, I like the sound of that.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    yellowjacketminds.com, I like the sound of that.
    .... uh oh

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    Originally posted by Biggin


    .... uh oh

    Sounds good aye? Or what about 'TheHive.com'?


    God I love ****in with the new guys.
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    Here's one for you newbie, Im sure you'll choose to ignore this one also


    According to Vince Gironda, the "Iron Guru", desiccated liver contains nucleic acids for proper amino-acid utilization, a growth factor and an anti-estrogen factor, which keeps testosterone levels high, and it is also a great anti-toxin.

    "... liver tablets are one of the most potent training aids for the bodybuilder. The formula is an extract which contains only trace amounts of fat and cholesterol, but forty-five times the nutritional value of whole beef liver, yet with all the nutrients and enzymes of raw liver."

    "...being very high in useable bodybuilding protein of the highest quality (it contains all the essential amino acids). It's a strong blood builder supplying heme iron. It is a very rich source of B vitamins, especially riboflavin, niacin, B-12, and the lipotropics choline and inositol. It's a good source of vitamins A, C, and D and other micro-nutrients and very rich in minerals such as the anti oxidant selenium, phosphorous, copper, zinc, and GTF chromium (insulin regulator). In addition to these known nutrients, there are substances present in liver shown to have a beneficial effect on health, fitness, and endurance such as cytochrome P-450 and others that have yet to be identified. "


    "In a classic experiment, Dr. B. H. Ershoff demonstrated that liver extract was able to boost strength, endurance, performance, and resistance to stress and disease. In a nutshell here's how this occurred:

    Dr. Ershoff took three groups of rats and fed them controlled diets for a twelve week period. Group one ate a basic diet fortified with vitamins and minerals. Group two ate as much as they wanted of the same diet plus B vitamins and brewer's yeast. Group three ate the basic diet but had 10% desiccated liver added to their rations.

    Then the doctor placed the rats one by one into a drum of water, out of which they could not climb. Therefore, it was either swim or drown. The group one rats swam an average of 13.2 minutes before they all drowned. Group two, an average of 13.4 minutes. Group three, however, were still swimming at the end of two hours, at which time the experiment was concluded. Now either the group three rats had watched the fate of their counterparts very closely, or the liver had something to do with them swimming almost 10 times as long. As far as we know, no other supplement has even come close to liver in improving endurance."
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket

    Now either the group three rats had watched the fate of their counterparts very closely, or the liver had something to do with them swimming almost 10 times as long.
    LOL... "oh ****, Moe went under!! swim, fellas, swim!!"
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    Originally posted by Biggin


    LOL... "oh ****, Moe went under!! swim, fellas, swim!!"
    Guess thats why they didnt use humans
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    You should be banned for failing to read around the board before posting, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt since you're trying hard. This has been discussed in full length in another thread. Exactly how there's no way you can get MCD from liver tabs. Please, do us a favor and read and research before you waste my time.
    Just to put the mad-cow-disease-from-liver-tabs worry to bed:

    According to the FDA, any beef related dietary supplement sold in the US must not originate from the 31 'black listed' countries where BSE is known to occur.

    check it out at:
    http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/bsefaq.html

    Argentina is not on the list.

    To say the liver tabs have a significant amount of aminos is kinda silly...2.3g in every two tabs?
    You take 15 - 18 liver tabs per day...

    Maybe I'm just bad at computers...oh, and if you want your text to stop being bolded when making multi quotes close the bold tag inside the quote tag (computers are hard, its ok).

    I got the impression this board was about sharing and discussing body building information and ideas. I would like to discuss liver tabs not have my intelligence questioned. If thats a problem I'll be more than happy to leave yellowjacketminds.com.
    That's kind of uncalled for, JayMc. I dont know Yellowjacket, but Ive read enough of his posts on enough bodybuilding boards to know that he's an intelligent guy who really does know what he's talking about. He would not be so vehement in supporting the use of liver tabs if the were total BS.

    LiverTabs have been around since the 50's. The reason they are still around is because they work, and they work very well. They supply many of the basic building blocks for building muscle, in addition to providing positive water retention.

    I have been taking LiverTabs since I got serious about getting big out about a year and a half ago. Since then, in addition to consistent diet and training, I have gone from 175 to my current bodyweight of 220. Every friend that I have turned on to LiverTabs has noted positive results. Could this be the placebo effect? Maybe. But after hearing positive results from nearly everyone who takes them, and seeing positive results myself, I would think this is not the case. For less than $10 a month, they are definately a worthwhile supplement to invest in.

    You can ignore everything above and just answer this: what do liver tabs provide me that taking a multivitamin and taking whey protein wont.
    Beef liver. Dont just compare the numbers. Whey protien isnt the only type of protien you should have in your diet. Whey protien does not contain the entire B-complex (neither do most multi's I know of), which is essential for fast muscle repair. You definately notice faster recovery time while supplementing with Uni-Liver. I see this as one of its prime benefits.

    As I stated above, LiverTabs have been around for a long, long time. Its not like this is Jay Cutler saying "I take Nitro-tech and look how huge I am". This is hundreds, if not thousands, of bodybuilders throughout history saying "I supplement with beef liver, I see results". We are not pushing any one product or brand. No one is out to make a dollar. We are trying to let other lifters know that this is an inexpensive supplement that works, and works well. A can of UniLiver can be had for $10 and will last over a month.

    Keep taking your Whey and your multivitamin. Add 15 LiverTabs/day to your regimen, try that for a month. If you dont see results, you're out $10 and they didnt work for you.

    They work for me and countless others. I think you should at least try them before you actually attack a supplement that is thought to be essential to the diets of guys who are light-years ahead of both you and I in terms of physical development and knowledge in this field.

    Like YellowJacket, for example.

    BigVrunga
    Last edited by BigVrunga; 04-07-2003 at 12:02 AM.
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    Hehe, I just finished reading that study a few mintues ago. I was just about to post it when I realized you beat me to it. Although, we know how most feel about rat studies.....

    It's too bad there's been little research done on livertabs with humans. But then I guess there's enough research on it's contents to not bother with the whole.
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    Originally posted by Draven
    Hehe, I just finished reading that study a few mintues ago. I was just about to post it when I realized you beat me to it. Although, we know how most feel about rat studies.....

    True, but I dont think you could put humans in a pool, some on a dessicated liver, some not and see how long they could swim until one drown

    But no study should be needed. There is nothing special in liver tabs. As BigV's post above says, its all basic ingredients. Things like vitamins, minerals, protein, amino acids, etc. that have been proven to work, with or without studies. I hate to sound like an arrogant ******* in this thread, but I feel justifying myself over and over again is bull**** since this supplement section is full of liver tab info. Oh well, cant satisfy everyone.
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    BV, sorry if you thought what I said was rude. Thats just kinda how I feel. I get nothing but hostility and personal attacks from YJ. I don't feel bad because he does that to a lot of people from what I've read. Thanks for responding to my questions, its appreciated.

    YJ, why couldn't you have just posted that article w/o the bashing and calling me stupid? Would it have been that hard on you?

    Look man, the people I've met at the gym working out and 99.9% of the people on the internet have been some of the nicest people I've ever met. Always willing to help, always willing to answer questions. They don't have to do this but they do anyway because they remember what it was like to be new or because at some point someone helped them out. If you think my questions are stupid or pointless thats fine, don't answer them. Someone else will (like BV). But please don't attack me and call me ignorant and furthermore the entire anorexicguy.net thing was just silly. As if all that weren't bad enough you compared me to pjorstad...thats low man... In the future just ignore my questions or reply to them in a civil way (like you did in the post where you posted the article, minus the part where you called me a newbie).

    I'm not gonna ask anymore liver tab questions. Its not worth the raking over the coals that would come before an answer.

    Thanks.

    J
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    Originally posted by Jay Mc
    BV, sorry if you thought what I said was rude. Thats just kinda how I feel. I get nothing but hostility and personal attacks from YJ. I don't feel bad because he does that to a lot of people from what I've read. Thanks for responding to my questions, its appreciated.
    Awww.... Now I feel bad Its an online message board, dont take it so seriously.

    YJ, why couldn't you have just posted that article w/o the bashing and calling me stupid? Would it have been that hard on you?
    Where's the fun in that?

    Look man, the people I've met at the gym working out and 99.9% of the people on the internet have been some of the nicest people I've ever met. Always willing to help, always willing to answer questions. They don't have to do this but they do anyway because they remember what it was like to be new or because at some point someone helped them out. If you think my questions are stupid or pointless thats fine, don't answer them. Someone else will (like BV).
    I normally would do that, but when you quote me and direct questions to me, I sort of feel like you're talking to me, can you blame me? I normally wouldnt have the attitude except you come here acting like you're gods gift to the bodybuilding world and attempt to refute an 'article' I put together myself with mundane, tired old statements I have heard 1000 times. And before you give the "Im new" excuse, the search button has been here the whole time you've been registered.


    But please don't attack me and call me ignorant and furthermore the entire anorexicguy.net thing was just silly. As if all that weren't bad enough you compared me to pjorstad...thats low man... In the future just ignore my questions or reply to them in a civil way (like you did in the post where you posted the article, minus the part where you called me a newbie).
    I have written a very good piece titled "How to handle a newbie", I suggest you dig that up and read it. Furthermore, thanks but no thanks, I dont need the lesson on how to respond to people and their repetitive questions and lackluster rebutles. As for the pjorstad comparison, sorry it just gave me flashbacks.

    I'm not gonna ask anymore liver tab questions. Its not worth the raking over the coals that would come before an answer.
    This is the idea. Maybe next time you'll hit the search function and dig the answers up yourself. Have a good one, YJ
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket [/b]
    ....except you come here acting like you're gods gift to the bodybuilding world and attempt to refute an 'article' I put together myself with mundane, tired old statements I have heard 1000 times. And before you give the Im new excuse, the search button has been here the whole time you've been registered.

    [/b]
    First, I'm 5'8 and about 150lbs w/about 8% body fat. I don't think that makes me a great body builder or even a good one. Second I didn't try and refute anything. I was just asking questions, they were to you. I'm sorry, I wont do that again.

    J
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    Originally posted by Jay Mc


    Second I didn't try and refute anything. I was just asking questions, they were to you. I'm sorry, I wont do that again.


    Good idea. Now can we please quit ruining my thread?
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    i'm gonna have to add 16 tablets of uni liver to my current 16 tablets of fish oil now
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    There's nothing wrong with asking questions when the answers aren't set in stone. Your liver tab FAQ is good, YJ, however is isn't the end-all gospel of liver tab info that will cover every possible tangent that may arise (that would be near impossible to write). The study regarding the anti-fatigue 450 enzyme was a good post (something we used to have over at BB.com), and actually answered a question asked "What will liver tabs give me that whey and a multi won't?" This hardly ruined your thread, it actually gave us more information to examine, which is our goal here at AM, full exploration and analyzation of issues.
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    Originally posted by pinoy
    i'm gonna have to add 16 tablets of uni liver to my current 16 tablets of fish oil now

    Can you get fish oil in liquid form? That would make things much easier....
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    Originally posted by jweave23
    There's nothing wrong with asking questions when the answers aren't set in stone. Your liver tab FAQ is good, YJ, however is isn't the end-all gospel of liver tab info that will cover every possible tangent that may arise (that would be near impossible to write). The study regarding the anti-fatigue 450 enzyme was a good post (something we used to have over at BB.com), and actually answered a question asked "What will liver tabs give me that whey and a multi won't?" This hardly ruined your thread, it actually gave us more information to examine, which is our goal here at AM, full exploration and analyzation of issues.

    Yes, I thought that article was already here, I suppose it wasnt. This thread is as complete as it can be in my opinion. To come and ask smartass questions because I rained on his glutamine parade is a waste of my time and board space. Not to sound like an *******, but each of those questions could have been answered via the search engine. Ah well, guess thats what they pay me for
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    Jay, don't sweat asking questions or exploring different trains of thought. That's what we want here at AM.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket



    Can you get fish oil in liquid form? That would make things much easier....
    nope...wish there was, wouldn't have to buy flax oil anymore :P
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    Originally posted by pinoy


    nope...wish there was, wouldn't have to buy flax oil anymore :P
    Damn that kind of sucks man, I thought for sure fish oil was avaliable in liquid form.
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    Also, here at AM, we're about taking it upon ourselves to research and help ourselves. Im more than willing to help those who will help themselves. Basic questions, such as the ones asked above, could have been found easily using only this board. Here at AM, we try to avoid the simplistic questions, we are more for advanced discussion and problem solving.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Here's one for you newbie, Im sure you'll choose to ignore this one also


    According to Vince Gironda, the "Iron Guru", desiccated liver contains nucleic acids for proper amino-acid utilization, a growth factor and an anti-estrogen factor, which keeps testosterone levels high, and it is also a great anti-toxin.

    "... liver tablets are one of the most potent training aids for the bodybuilder. The formula is an extract which contains only trace amounts of fat and cholesterol, but forty-five times the nutritional value of whole beef liver, yet with all the nutrients and enzymes of raw liver."

    "...being very high in useable bodybuilding protein of the highest quality (it contains all the essential amino acids). It's a strong blood builder supplying heme iron. It is a very rich source of B vitamins, especially riboflavin, niacin, B-12, and the lipotropics choline and inositol. It's a good source of vitamins A, C, and D and other micro-nutrients and very rich in minerals such as the anti oxidant selenium, phosphorous, copper, zinc, and GTF chromium (insulin regulator). In addition to these known nutrients, there are substances present in liver shown to have a beneficial effect on health, fitness, and endurance such as cytochrome P-450 and others that have yet to be identified. "


    "In a classic experiment, Dr. B. H. Ershoff demonstrated that liver extract was able to boost strength, endurance, performance, and resistance to stress and disease. In a nutshell here's how this occurred:

    Dr. Ershoff took three groups of rats and fed them controlled diets for a twelve week period. Group one ate a basic diet fortified with vitamins and minerals. Group two ate as much as they wanted of the same diet plus B vitamins and brewer's yeast. Group three ate the basic diet but had 10% desiccated liver added to their rations.

    Then the doctor placed the rats one by one into a drum of water, out of which they could not climb. Therefore, it was either swim or drown. The group one rats swam an average of 13.2 minutes before they all drowned. Group two, an average of 13.4 minutes. Group three, however, were still swimming at the end of two hours, at which time the experiment was concluded. Now either the group three rats had watched the fate of their counterparts very closely, or the liver had something to do with them swimming almost 10 times as long. As far as we know, no other supplement has even come close to liver in improving endurance."
    I made this post at bb.com on a liver tab thread, explaining the benefits of dessicated liver a few months ago. Nice the way you take my posts and use them to your advantage when it suits you. Eric serrano has much more updated tests proving the value of glutamine. But then that's just real world experience, not pubmed, right?



    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...0&pagenumber=2
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    Originally posted by John Benz

    I made this post at bb.com on a liver tab thread, explaining the benefits of dessicated liver a few months ago. Nice the way you take my posts and use them to your advantage when it suits you. Eric serrano has much more updated tests proving the value of glutamine. But then that's just real world experience, not pubmed, right?



    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...p;pagenumber=2
    I certainly didnt try to pass it off as my own, since its not all the great. As far as using it to suit me, yes, that was its use as is much of the use of information on the internet. Are you an information Nazi? (LoL).

    Eric who? Sorry John, this isnt a glutamine thread.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket



    Can you get fish oil in liquid form? That would make things much easier....
    It's called Cod Liver Oil and you can get it in a variety of different size bottles.
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    OH GOD JOHN NOW YOU COME AND **** IT ALL AGAIN, PLEASE STOP !!!!!!! COME ON , HEY WW7 let's get john benz on the dog house for a while man, he's heating up arguments in every ****ing section of AM where YJ is posting.
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    Originally posted by YellowJacket
    Also, here at AM, we're about taking it upon ourselves to research and help ourselves. Im more than willing to help those who will help themselves. Basic questions, such as the ones asked above, could have been found easily using only this board. Here at AM, we try to avoid the simplistic questions, we are more for advanced discussion and problem solving.
    Jay asked legitimate and pertinent questions. What we don't do here at AM is flame people for asking questions and debating a given topic.
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    Originally posted by John Benz

    Jay asked legitimate and pertinent questions. What we don't do here at AM is flame people for asking questions and debating a given topic.

    Oh, what a surprise, I thought you'd agree with me

    This following me around, getting punked in each thread that you do, must get very old. Being on a mission to follow my posts and make each of them personal must get old also. Its funny to see you post only in threads where theres potential for drama, for the love of god Im suffocating in this constant bull****, grow up and get a life, seriously.
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    Originally posted by RaulJimenez
    OH GOD JOHN NOW YOU COME AND **** IT ALL AGAIN, PLEASE STOP !!!!!!! COME ON , HEY WW7 let's get john benz on the dog house for a while man, he's heating up arguments in every ****ing section of AM where YJ is posting.
    Raul,

    You did not see the way YJ treated Jay?
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    Originally posted by jweave23
    There's nothing wrong with asking questions when the answers aren't set in stone. Your liver tab FAQ is good, YJ, however is isn't the end-all gospel of liver tab info that will cover every possible tangent that may arise (that would be near impossible to write). The study regarding the anti-fatigue 450 enzyme was a good post (something we used to have over at BB.com), and actually answered a question asked "What will liver tabs give me that whey and a multi won't?" This hardly ruined your thread, it actually gave us more information to examine, which is our goal here at AM, full exploration and analyzation of issues.
    Well said Jweave!
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    Well man don't get involved in those threads, they were directly personal between YJ and JAY, if there is anything "good" "KNOWLEDGEABLE" to be apported to the thread then i think is worth the time responding, otherwise i don't think i see a reason for trying to heat up arguments or follow yj around and try to make him look bad, im not siding anywhere but I think this has got to stop, make peace i don't know , you both look like husband and wife.
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    Originally posted by RaulJimenez
    Well man don't get involved in those threads, they were directly personal between YJ and JAY, if there is anything "good" "KNOWLEDGEABLE" to be apported to the thread then i think is worth the time responding, otherwise i don't think i see a reason for trying to heat up arguments or follow yj around and try to make him look bad, im not siding anywhere but I think this has got to stop, make peace i don't know , you both look like husband and wife.
    Well said, I husband of course
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    Originally posted by RaulJimenez
    Well man don't get involved in those threads, they were directly personal between YJ and JAY, if there is anything "good" "KNOWLEDGEABLE" to be apported to the thread then i think is worth the time responding, otherwise i don't think i see a reason for trying to heat up arguments or follow yj around and try to make him look bad, im not siding anywhere but I think this has got to stop, make peace i don't know , you both look like husband and wife.
    Well that is apart of the problem. If it's personal between YJ and Jay then in should be in PM's. People have the right to ask questions if they dont think the answer has been given in such a way as to satisfy the specifics of their query. When you openly make this this stuff for all to see on the board then it is equally open for everyones comments. Other than that we agree Raul.
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    Hey Jay, getting back to the org. thread here, I followed a link from the post John referred to at BB.com and found this which might explain some stuff about the Cytochrome P450 Reductase found in liver tabs that might explain the increased energy. I personally feel one of the great things about liver tabs is the increased energy I experience, perhaps this explains it.
  

  
 

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