Is it possible to gain muscle on PCT
08-28-2005 10:22 PM
You guys do realize that once you've reached your "genetic max" of muscle, that the only way to pack on more muscle is to use drugs or to accept fat alongside the muscle, right? That means that Tom is more or less correct, not you guys.
08-29-2005 07:36 AM
The thing is, most people drop a ton of water weight on PCT and think it's muscle. You never had that during-cycle fullness in the first place. The body can only put on so much permanent muscle at a time, even with AAS.
to keep muscle in an otherwise catabolic situation, the trick is simple, eat a lot. You will probably gain some fat with it, but you have to decide if you want to keep the muscle and gain a little fat, or stay lean and lose a little muscle. If you do your PCT right you should only be in an anti-productive hormone situation for a short time.
BTW- there is a genetic muscle maximum. Do you think a fat powerlifter has the physique of ronnie under that fat? Ronnie is pretty much constantly on AAS/GH just to maintain his size. A natural lifter just does not have enough anabolic hormones to be effective for that amount of mass.
08-29-2005 06:06 PM
That's why there are natural powerlifters around who are fat, but have more lean mass under that fat than is supposedly "natural." Of course if they try to diet down without drugs, they will lose a lot of it, but do some reading - it is possible to gain more muscle than your supposed genetic max, as long as you accept very significant fat gain alongside it.
08-29-2005 06:16 PM
But why would you want to let yourself get so fat just so you can put on some muscle, if you cant see the muscle and look fat, whats the point? I agree that if you just let it all go and ate everything and worked hard you could get your LBM past your genetic limit than you could hold at a lower bodyfat percentage, but without the hormones you will not be able to stay as lean and still put on more muscle.
08-29-2005 06:38 PM
I don't think so. Once you reach you genetic limit; thats it no more muscle gain unless you use something extra. And as for adding more calories, thereby more fat, to go beyond you genetic makeup is wrong. All you going to get is fat.
Originally Posted by Behemoth
08-30-2005 01:38 AM
Hmmm, let me rephrase. Ronnie is on GRAMS of aas and who knows what else just to maintain his post-genetic muscle mass. Nevermind when he wants to actually gain muscle. Does the genetic max differ from person to person? Of course, but the body can only naturally maintain so much muscle because of limited natural hormone levels.
Originally Posted by Behemoth
BTW- Which "reading" are you refering to? Post the study!
08-30-2005 11:57 AM
OTOH, there was never a gene identified as "This says how much muscle you can have". So the genetic idea isn't actually for real. I'm not saying the body doesn't have limitations. It does. But to call them "genetic" is besides the point IMO.
If a person, 200 years ago, were to get say 30% of his dietary intake from Tribulus Terrestris and other hormone-enhancing herbs and eventually gets bigger than what you call "genetic limit", is he "eating properly" or is he "going over his genetic limit"???
Sometimes there are no concepts to properly represent reality.
08-30-2005 12:08 PM
Pityin' fools since '81
no, your endocrine system clearly has limits placed upon the amount LBM that can be attained and sustained. it's simply not possible for the majority of the population to gain that much muscle; whether it's covered in adipose tissue or not.
Originally Posted by TheTom
08-30-2005 12:50 PM
If you don't have the T levels to support or gain muscle mass, then it's not gonna happen. You cannot gain muscle during PCT w/ ultra low T levels...the analogy that max gave about his 90 yr. old pappy is a good one..lol. And the same goes for women...why do you think that they cannot gain like us guys? It's because they don't have the T levels to do so...but pump 'em up with juice, and they will have no problem..just take a look at those man-women who compete...simply disgusting, yet they can get pretty damn big.
Now add in the new generation PCT products as well as GH, slin, IGF-1, etc. and then of course those chemicals will help you better. With genetics aside, you just cannot expect to gain muscle when your T levels are low, you have to have T in their or some other ergogenic aids in order to gain...their is just no such animal.
08-30-2005 10:42 PM
Actually mystatin (sp?) is one gene that prevents a muscle from gaining to much. Thats why people made such a big deal about people like Flex Wheeler who supposedly had a genetic mutation that knocked out this gene.
Originally Posted by ss01
09-01-2005 11:25 AM
Myostatin is not a gene, it is an enzyme. But I agree, if you have the gene that makes myostatin disabled partially or completely, that changes things. Just as if you have a disability of a gene that allows your glands to make GH or Test or heck even insulin, you're in big trouble. But that's more of a genetic disease than a true "genetic limitation" of what one can or cannot sustain as a "natural" muscle mass.
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