What happened to the scam supplements research thread?
- 04-05-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by N'Pursuit
Hey homez I'm not looking to argue with you on it.&nbsp;&nbsp; I wouldn't even go there.&nbsp; Please don't sink to suggest that I would buy a creatine serum.&nbsp; I just suggested that only "proven" scams be listed.&nbsp; You have written enough up on glutamine that has made me cut it out, but there is still too much info out there on it that it may be beneficial.
I understand....... but if there is info. out there that proves it useful, I wish someone would step forward with it, Im waiting. (Dont bring me T-Mag articles or a Jay Cutler ad please)
- 04-05-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by YellowJacket
Just checking Thought we had another contestant. More isnt always better.
So has methoxy. Glutamine has cell volumizing properties, repairs soft tissue damage, boosts the immune system, inproves athletic performance, etc. Wow, this is seemingly a miracle supplement huh? Labels claim a lot of things, none of which mean anything unless backed up. Thats why I stick with few supplements. Ones that have basic logic and dont promise something that someone, with little supplement knowledge, can rule out.
Dont know which thread you missed, but hit "glutamine" in the search function and read up, its been dismissed a few times.
I gotta go take my myostatin and pig testicle extract anyway...
- 04-05-2003, 03:07 PM
04-05-2003, 03:10 PM
Essential & supplement do not go together. I hate to carry the glutamine bull**** over to other threads, since theres already 3 or 4 about it (oh wait, maybe just 2 now ) But I'll cut you a break since you're a newbie
04-05-2003, 03:16 PM
what's the deal with the   when you are quoting me?
04-05-2003, 03:19 PM
Come again?Originally posted by N'Pursuit
what's the deal with the &nbsp when you are quoting me?
04-05-2003, 03:27 PM
LOL I don't know everytime you quoted me that was showing up in the middle of the sentences.
04-05-2003, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by N'Pursuit
LOL I don't know everytime you quoted me that was showing up in the middle of the sentences.
Got me? Everytime I quote someone it bolds my text too, I bet thats annoying as hell
04-05-2003, 04:20 PM
Ok, so beyond the glutamine issue here, what else? I already covered Trib in my article in the sup section but perhaps I could go deeper into it's supposed use post cycle, although that wouldn't take long.
Here's what the old list had:
Diosgenin (wild yams)
Shilajit or mummio
Avena Sativa (oats)
Saw palmetto berries
ß-sitosterol and other related sterols
04-05-2003, 04:33 PM
Anything Klein-Becker Labs
04-05-2003, 04:41 PM
04-05-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by RaulJimenez
let's go for creatine serum?
That one shouldnt be too tough..... think we should start another thread on this? Like we did last time?
04-05-2003, 04:49 PM
Yes I think we should, definitely . Possibly Make it sticky once it begins to fill with info and studies so everyone shares the topic and knowledge.
04-06-2003, 12:02 AM
I made a few postings to the old thread. Few points I would like to make:
1. As I suggested in the first thread, I think you should substitute "ineffective" for "scam." All scam supplements are ineffective, but not all ineffective supplements are scams. A scam is knowingly perpetrating a fraud. I suspect the company that makes creatine serum knows full well that it is bogus - that's a scam. However, there are some products out there that are ineffective but without any scam intended. For example, I remember when Boron was marketing for bodybuilding. Now Boron isn't a scam but it is ineffective for the specific purpose of building mass. I truly believe you cannot call Glutamine a scam. There are people who sincerely believe it works; I don't believe any fraud is intended in marketing it for bodybuilding. However, it may well be ineffective for the purposes of bodybuilding and I tend to believe YJ in the first thread made a strong case to draw this conclusion. What I am trying to say is that scam is a loaded word.
2. I'm not asking the moderators to explain how/who deleted the thread. I remember the old thread and I think I may know. But, I think the moderators need to work this out. If a moderator deleted a thread started by another moderator, I think the moderators need to consider some sort of action against the deleting moderator. To me, this really was inexcusible. Childish at best.
3. Finally, one supplement that has been pretty widely condemned is oral HGH. A lot of companies sell oral HGH. A couple of companies I have never been wild about: Pinnacle and Biotest.
04-06-2003, 12:05 AM
I agree. It will be called Ineffective Supplements. As for glutamine, a lot of people swear by it, but thats not good enough. I want hard data, research, journal citations, etc. "Jay Cutler uses it" wont get the job doneOriginally posted by GuyinLA
I truly believe you cannot call Glutamine a scam. There are people who sincerely believe it works; I don't believe any fraud is intended in marketing it for bodybuilding. However, it may well be ineffective for the purposes of bodybuilding and I tend to believe YJ in the first thread made a strong case to draw this conclusion. What I am trying to say is that scam is a loaded word.
Firmly agree.2. I'm not asking the moderators to explain how/who deleted the thread. I remember the old thread and I think I may know. But, I think the moderators need to work this out. If a moderator deleted a thread started by another moderator, I think the moderators need to consider some sort of action against the deleting moderator. To me, this really was inexcusible. Childish at best.
3. Finally, one supplement that has been pretty widely condemned is oral HGH. A lot of companies sell oral HGH. A couple of companies I have never been wild about: Pinnacle and Biotest.Agree here also.
04-06-2003, 12:15 AM
how about just a list of what works because there is just so much damn stuff that doesn;t its ridiculous and you'd have to be updating it daily considering the bull**** scams that all manufacturers jump on. As for glutamine i am all for using glutamine but i agree it has a place on the ineffective list or doesn;pt have a spot on the proven effective list because i have yet to stumble on data that proves its effective i've just read stuff up in magazines about pros and others saying how good it is
04-06-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by TheCSWFighter
how about just a list of what works because there is just so much damn stuff that doesn;t its ridiculous and you'd have to be updating it daily considering the bull**** scams that all manufacturers jump on.
Haha, good point, that probably would be quicker.
....... And a few more.
04-06-2003, 12:20 AM
training, food, sleep haha thats a given those are basic needs not supplements but i coudn;t think of anything so i figure i'll just say these things and feel as if i made a contribution. kind of like instead of giving tons of money to charity i drop quarters on the ground for people to pick up.
04-06-2003, 12:33 AM
We know who deleted it. Its fine now, as long as it doesnt happen again.Originally posted by Matthew D
Well I am still trying to figure out which thread it is.. but I haven't deleted any threads lately except my own... LOL..
04-06-2003, 01:54 AM
I DELETED THAT THREAD!
That night, 3/12/03, I had to go over to Anabolic Universe with Jake to aplogize to the mod crew there for YJ's assinine flaming of basskiller when he visited our board about a source bust. Bass pm'd me and I was trying to delete about 10 posts where YJ had called him every name in the book....for no damn reason! Then YJ deleted the thread in fear of chemo seeing it.
When I got back here, I was already in a bad mood about his childish "brat-boy" behavior over the admin position, and the fact he cussed at a member before I left, and told him to ****ing leave if he didn't like the way he was being treated. The boy told YJ he was being a punk (I would have said worse) and YJ deleted his entire thread.
Then I went to add an article to my defense of glutamine on the scam thread.
#1. YJ had taken my pro glutamine posts and stuck them into a new thread he named. "another glutamine debate."
#2. YJ tore the thread apart and deleted every post he felt went against his opinion. Posts that stated Yes, VPX protein has been tested and found better than label claim, and one guy had used their xenabol and claimed it gave resultsas good as 1-test. YJ deleted ever single post that he didn't particularly agree with, and the thread was barely recognizable as the thread I had read only hours before.
I was in a rage at his arrogance in deleting and modifying my posts (this is not near the first time), and just deleted the entire thread and its adjoining thread as well. Before he puts up another thread, he had better look up the definition of scam. You can't label a company as a scam and post it across the internet because their prices are high and you don't like them. YJ knows I deleted the thread, and called me every vulgar name in the book late that night in a thread and a pm as well. Jake and I talked about all this and he read me what YJ had written as he already had deleted it. YJ is not qualified and has no credibility. He is apparently gunning for another fight, with the blessing of ww7. I am in a bad mood anyway and his wish will soon be granted. Stay tuned!!!!!
04-06-2003, 03:01 AM
doesn't have to be a fight, nobody's "gunning" for anything other than intelligent debate, so obviously that's the attitude we should approach this thing with... moving forward, not backward...
04-06-2003, 03:04 AM
I strongly suggest that the moderators privately deal with any issues that exist between John Benz and YellowJacket. I don't think it serves any useful purpose for this to be aired on the board. Indeed, it can only detract from the board's credibility.
04-06-2003, 03:08 AM
lets not have this turn into a bodybuilding.com forum now...*smirks*
04-06-2003, 10:29 AM
:edrama: i swear, cutting makes you guys act like you're on your period or something...John, if you have evidence, show your cards or please keep your negative thoughts out of a potentially useful thread. YJ, the best way to know the think you discuss is to take the side opposite of your opinion, why dont you try proving that glutamine is good and see what you come up with. hello people, this is the bloody internet, why screw with a thread that could help people with stupid bickering and pointless online conflict. it hurts more than it helps, by far. everyone needs to try to keep an open mind, and by what i have read, this includes YJ (and no, i'm not singling you out, but people do listen to you, so you need to act like an adult)...now can we please get back to the topic at hand...those supplements that we are trying to prove do not do what their labels claim...and those supplements we can prove to be truly useful. thank you
04-06-2003, 10:44 AM
Amen, let's prove with evidence, not foulmouth's. By the way this was supposed to be again a good thread, I hope it doesn't end like the last one guys, lets keep it mature.
04-06-2003, 12:02 PM
Guess I shouldn't have mentioned the G word!
04-06-2003, 12:10 PM
You had to go there, subtle indeed but now this thread has become what I begged that it would not, a piece of ****!!!Originally posted by YellowJacket
We know who deleted it. Its fine now, as long as it doesnt happen again.
04-06-2003, 12:42 PM
hey hey hey now...i understand what your sayin man as you being more of a credible source i pretty much see what your sayin but at the same time most of the stuff YJ posts isn;t even his words it's studies. So if your saying he is not a credible source you're saying all of these univiersities are not credible because thats what he posts...not really hsi outlook on things.
04-06-2003, 12:43 PM
This thread is closed. I am starting a new one for you bro's to actually start posting info relative to the subject in. We've talked about the thread long enough, let's see if we can actually produce some good stuff now instead of talking about it
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