What happened to the scam supplements research thread?

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  1. Well let's get it going. Take a position and prove it with science (not BS personal attacks/slander) and let's see where this goes!


  2. Glutamine has been proven worthless, unless someone wants to step up and prove it otherwise, but I guess to keep the crybabies quiet, we'll leave it off. So you guys run with this and best of luck.
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  3. ow? good ****, YJ you still got that initial list handy? be easier to work off of and add to

  4. Originally posted by YellowJacket


    And you basal glutamine levels wouldnt do that? Obviously or we'd all be walking around sick. Not to mention this is a list of supplements as pertains to bodybuilding.

    Then I tell you what, you make you a list and do what you got to do.
    if regular intake amounts does a good job, increased amounts does a great job. Plus you could argue (in theory...) that if less is being used by intestinal mucosa cells there would be more available to the rest of the body...I'm not making that argument cause I have nothign to back it up with, just saying...

    breath homepiece...I'm not assaulting. I'm trying to say oral glutamine has been said to do a lot things. Some of which are reasonable, some aren't. I just think it would be nice to pick the one thing that the concern is over, like, increased immune function, decreased catabolism, etc. If you just say glutamine doesn't work then there is too much room for argument.

    J

  5. Why keep glutamine off? YJ, has laid out a stellar case against it, let see if someone wants to try back it as a non-scam supplement.
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  6. Originally posted by YellowJacket



    Glutamine is found in the body, in great abundance, so why supplement with it? Creatine is found naturally in the body, would you buy creatine serum? Hopefully not.
     

    Hey homez I'm not looking to argue with you on it.   I wouldn't even go there.  Please don't sink to suggest that I would buy a creatine serum.  I just suggested that only "proven" scams be listed.  You have written enough up on glutamine that has made me cut it out, but there is still too much info out there on it that it may be beneficial.

  7. dude I can't keep up w/thread here...too many people posting! You guys should make this IRC or something

    J

  8. Originally posted by Jay Mc


    If you just say glutamine doesn't work then there is too much room for argument.

    J
    you seen the arguments for/against it here yet?

  9. There is a lot of others to discuss besides Glutamine. I would love to see somone try to prove myostatin

  10. Originally posted by Biggin
    ow? good ****, YJ you still got that initial list handy? be easier to work off of and add to
    Nope, that was deleted also. We have the one from when the board 1st started, but we have added to it greatly since then, should not be hard to recollect the lost ones....although we shouldnt have to


    Originally posted by Jay Mc


    if regular intake amounts does a good job, increased amounts does a great job. Plus you could argue (in theory...) that if less is being used by intestinal mucosa cells there would be more available to the rest of the body...I'm not making that argument cause I have nothign to back it up with, just saying...
    Just checking Thought we had another contestant. More isnt always better.

    I'm trying to say oral glutamine has been said to do a lot things.
    So has methoxy. Glutamine has cell volumizing properties, repairs soft tissue damage, boosts the immune system, inproves athletic performance, etc. Wow, this is seemingly a miracle supplement huh? Labels claim a lot of things, none of which mean anything unless backed up. Thats why I stick with few supplements. Ones that have basic logic and dont promise something that someone, with little supplement knowledge, can rule out.


    Some of which are reasonable, some aren't. I just think it would be nice to pick the one thing that the concern is over, like, increased immune function, decreased catabolism, etc. If you just say glutamine doesn't work then there is too much room for argument.

    J
    Dont know which thread you missed, but hit "glutamine" in the search function and read up, its been dismissed a few times.

    Originally posted by windwords7
    Why keep glutamine off? YJ, has laid out a stellar case against it, let see if someone wants to try back it as a non-scam supplement.
    You'll always have the mainstreet bull**** believers who, regardless of science and data, will complain and bitch and moan that it works, and they believe in it because they scored some placebo from it, so I'll leave well enough alone and drop the glutamine trashing, if everyone cant see through it by now, its a lost cause. Not to mention I dont think it would fair well at many boards which have supplement companies as sponsors.

  11. Originally posted by N'Pursuit


     

    Hey homez I'm not looking to argue with you on it.   I wouldn't even go there.  Please don't sink to suggest that I would buy a creatine serum.  I just suggested that only "proven" scams be listed.  You have written enough up on glutamine that has made me cut it out, but there is still too much info out there on it that it may be beneficial.

    I understand....... but if there is info. out there that proves it useful, I wish someone would step forward with it, Im waiting. (Dont bring me T-Mag articles or a Jay Cutler ad please)

  12. Originally posted by YellowJacket



    Just checking Thought we had another contestant. More isnt always better.



    So has methoxy. Glutamine has cell volumizing properties, repairs soft tissue damage, boosts the immune system, inproves athletic performance, etc. Wow, this is seemingly a miracle supplement huh? Labels claim a lot of things, none of which mean anything unless backed up. Thats why I stick with few supplements. Ones that have basic logic and dont promise something that someone, with little supplement knowledge, can rule out.
    That was kinda my point...



    Dont know which thread you missed, but hit "glutamine" in the search function and read up, its been dismissed a few times.

    check my registration date, it was like last monday When I first researched glutamine there were lots of studies saying it was great, and had been used on bed ridden patients forever, blah blah but not much about oral gluatamine. I know from school that glutamine is a very important amino and is used in lots of things and is conditionally essential. Its impossible to stay current on every supplement. I picked ephedrine and chose to champion it. You obviously picked glutamine and chose to destroy it I'm in my last semester of school and work helluv hours as a paramedic so I just can't read all the time, as I'm sure everyone can't. I'm not arguing for or against. In fact I'm not even sure what is being argued at all, that was kinda my point. You threw up a lot of things glutamine was supposed to do, I'm guessing there's evidence to say it does none of those. I guess I'll go read all the old posts...seesh...I wish I never mentioned glutamine...

    I gotta go take my myostatin and pig testicle extract anyway...

    J

  13. Jay, dont sweat it.

  14. Essential & supplement do not go together. I hate to carry the glutamine bull**** over to other threads, since theres already 3 or 4 about it (oh wait, maybe just 2 now ) But I'll cut you a break since you're a newbie

  15. what's the deal with the &nbsp when you are quoting me?

  16. Originally posted by N'Pursuit
    what's the deal with the &nbsp when you are quoting me?
    Come again?

  17. LOL I don't know everytime you quoted me that was showing up in the middle of the sentences.

  18. Originally posted by N'Pursuit
    LOL I don't know everytime you quoted me that was showing up in the middle of the sentences.

    Got me? Everytime I quote someone it bolds my text too, I bet thats annoying as hell

  19. Ok, so beyond the glutamine issue here, what else? I already covered Trib in my article in the sup section but perhaps I could go deeper into it's supposed use post cycle, although that wouldn't take long.

    Here's what the old list had:

    Methoxy
    Cutting Gel.
    pyruvate
    hmb
    androsteindione
    cell-tech
    no2
    methoxypro
    arginine
    Chromium Piccolinate
    Creatine serum
    effervesant orange
    Ecdy
    Muscletech
    ecysterone
    Diosgenin (wild yams)
    Glutamine
    Rhodiola
    Yohimbe
    Cordyceps fungus
    Shilajit or mummio
    Smilax
    Avena Sativa (oats)
    Ecdysterone (Suma)
    Liquid Creatine
    Saw palmetto berries
    -sitosterol and other related sterols


  20. Nice Draven........


    Add:

    AST PHs
    VPX PHs
    Anything Klein-Becker Labs
    Impact Nutrition
    SDI-Labs

  21. let's go for creatine serum?

  22. Originally posted by RaulJimenez
    let's go for creatine serum?

    That one shouldnt be too tough..... think we should start another thread on this? Like we did last time?

  23. Yes I think we should, definitely . Possibly Make it sticky once it begins to fill with info and studies so everyone shares the topic and knowledge.

  24. I made a few postings to the old thread. Few points I would like to make:

    1. As I suggested in the first thread, I think you should substitute "ineffective" for "scam." All scam supplements are ineffective, but not all ineffective supplements are scams. A scam is knowingly perpetrating a fraud. I suspect the company that makes creatine serum knows full well that it is bogus - that's a scam. However, there are some products out there that are ineffective but without any scam intended. For example, I remember when Boron was marketing for bodybuilding. Now Boron isn't a scam but it is ineffective for the specific purpose of building mass. I truly believe you cannot call Glutamine a scam. There are people who sincerely believe it works; I don't believe any fraud is intended in marketing it for bodybuilding. However, it may well be ineffective for the purposes of bodybuilding and I tend to believe YJ in the first thread made a strong case to draw this conclusion. What I am trying to say is that scam is a loaded word.

    2. I'm not asking the moderators to explain how/who deleted the thread. I remember the old thread and I think I may know. But, I think the moderators need to work this out. If a moderator deleted a thread started by another moderator, I think the moderators need to consider some sort of action against the deleting moderator. To me, this really was inexcusible. Childish at best.

    3. Finally, one supplement that has been pretty widely condemned is oral HGH. A lot of companies sell oral HGH. A couple of companies I have never been wild about: Pinnacle and Biotest.

  25. Originally posted by GuyinLA


    I truly believe you cannot call Glutamine a scam. There are people who sincerely believe it works; I don't believe any fraud is intended in marketing it for bodybuilding. However, it may well be ineffective for the purposes of bodybuilding and I tend to believe YJ in the first thread made a strong case to draw this conclusion. What I am trying to say is that scam is a loaded word.
    I agree. It will be called Ineffective Supplements. As for glutamine, a lot of people swear by it, but thats not good enough. I want hard data, research, journal citations, etc. "Jay Cutler uses it" wont get the job done

    2. I'm not asking the moderators to explain how/who deleted the thread. I remember the old thread and I think I may know. But, I think the moderators need to work this out. If a moderator deleted a thread started by another moderator, I think the moderators need to consider some sort of action against the deleting moderator. To me, this really was inexcusible. Childish at best.
    Firmly agree.

    3. Finally, one supplement that has been pretty widely condemned is oral HGH. A lot of companies sell oral HGH. A couple of companies I have never been wild about: Pinnacle and Biotest.
    Agree here also.

  26. how about just a list of what works because there is just so much damn stuff that doesn;t its ridiculous and you'd have to be updating it daily considering the bull**** scams that all manufacturers jump on. As for glutamine i am all for using glutamine but i agree it has a place on the ineffective list or doesn;pt have a spot on the proven effective list because i have yet to stumble on data that proves its effective i've just read stuff up in magazines about pros and others saying how good it is

  27. Originally posted by TheCSWFighter
    how about just a list of what works because there is just so much damn stuff that doesn;t its ridiculous and you'd have to be updating it daily considering the bull**** scams that all manufacturers jump on.

    Haha, good point, that probably would be quicker.

    Protein
    Flax
    Creatine
    Multi
    Liver tabs
    1-test
    4-ad
    ....... And a few more.

  28. training, food, sleep haha thats a given those are basic needs not supplements but i coudn;t think of anything so i figure i'll just say these things and feel as if i made a contribution. kind of like instead of giving tons of money to charity i drop quarters on the ground for people to pick up.

  29. Originally posted by Matthew D
    Well I am still trying to figure out which thread it is.. but I haven't deleted any threads lately except my own... LOL..
    We know who deleted it. Its fine now, as long as it doesnt happen again.
  30. Angry I DELETED THAT THREAD!


    That night, 3/12/03, I had to go over to Anabolic Universe with Jake to aplogize to the mod crew there for YJ's assinine flaming of basskiller when he visited our board about a source bust. Bass pm'd me and I was trying to delete about 10 posts where YJ had called him every name in the book....for no damn reason! Then YJ deleted the thread in fear of chemo seeing it.

    When I got back here, I was already in a bad mood about his childish "brat-boy" behavior over the admin position, and the fact he cussed at a member before I left, and told him to ****ing leave if he didn't like the way he was being treated. The boy told YJ he was being a punk (I would have said worse) and YJ deleted his entire thread.

    Then I went to add an article to my defense of glutamine on the scam thread.

    #1. YJ had taken my pro glutamine posts and stuck them into a new thread he named. "another glutamine debate."

    #2. YJ tore the thread apart and deleted every post he felt went against his opinion. Posts that stated Yes, VPX protein has been tested and found better than label claim, and one guy had used their xenabol and claimed it gave resultsas good as 1-test. YJ deleted ever single post that he didn't particularly agree with, and the thread was barely recognizable as the thread I had read only hours before.

    I was in a rage at his arrogance in deleting and modifying my posts (this is not near the first time), and just deleted the entire thread and its adjoining thread as well. Before he puts up another thread, he had better look up the definition of scam. You can't label a company as a scam and post it across the internet because their prices are high and you don't like them. YJ knows I deleted the thread, and called me every vulgar name in the book late that night in a thread and a pm as well. Jake and I talked about all this and he read me what YJ had written as he already had deleted it. YJ is not qualified and has no credibility. He is apparently gunning for another fight, with the blessing of ww7. I am in a bad mood anyway and his wish will soon be granted. Stay tuned!!!!!
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