Theacrine a scam ?

[djbombsquad]

https://medium.com/@anthonyroberts/theacrine-is-garbage-4fe7f1804ff0

 

[musclemaker]

Coming from a retailer's perspective, the ingredient doesn't seem all that special.

I don't think we have ever had a customer get excited or request a product specifically because of the inclusion of the ingredient.

I believe Purus Labs was the first company that first used theacrine in their fat burner theatrim of which it took us almost a year to sell off our initial stock.

Yea, customers weren't stoked about it.

The point I am leading to here is that whatever the effects may have been, it's minimal, I don't think companies were really making extra sales by using the ingredient like the way a company would if they used DMAA or DMHA.

 

[musclemaker]

https://medium.com/@anthonyroberts/theacrine-is-garbage-4fe7f1804ff0

By the way, you look like Bruce Lee ready to whoop some @$$ in your photo.

 

[USPlabsRep]

We almost everyone in the industry folds and places their tail between their legs. You end up with Theacrine. It's gives a small additive feel effect to caffeine, safe, but not spectacular...

Anthony Roberts is the person that tells on you (big snitch) but is doing the exact same thing probably even worse.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

You do know that people using theacrine almost always use it for inherently subjective effects like energy, focus, alertness, etc, right? It is almost always taken with caffeine and even other stimulants too. I'll agree that it's pretty sub-par alone as a caffeine replacement, but is actually a solid addition to caffeine to give an extra boost to INHERENTLY SUBJECTIVE parameters. This is logical, and supported by research, which shows that coadministration with caffeine increases the bioavailability of theacrine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28875060

Furthermore, if your only argument against the validity of the studies showing its effectiveness is funding, you have failed to provide sufficient evidence. You can call it into question, but can't disprove the studies/conclusions unless you find flaws in the methodology, data collection, conclusions, etc. of the actual studies.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

You do know that people using theacrine almost always use it for inherently subjective effects like energy, focus, alertness, etc, right? It is almost always taken with caffeine and even other stimulants too. I'll agree that it's pretty sub-par alone as a caffeine replacement, but is actually a solid addition to caffeine to give an extra boost to INHERENTLY SUBJECTIVE parameters. This is logical, and supported by research, which shows that coadministration with caffeine increases the bioavailability of theacrine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28875060

Furthermore, if your only argument against the validity of the studies showing its effectiveness is funding, you have failed to provide sufficient evidence. You can call it into question, but can't disprove the studies/conclusions unless you find flaws in the methodology, data collection, conclusions, etc. of the actual studies.

Edit: for whatever reason I thought that the article was written by the poster, but it was not lol. My bad for reading threads while busy. Excuse the somewhat condescending tone lol.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

You do know that people using theacrine almost always use it for inherently subjective effects like energy, focus, alertness, etc, right? It is almost always taken with caffeine and even other stimulants too. I'll agree that it's pretty sub-par alone as a caffeine replacement, but is actually a solid addition to caffeine to give an extra boost.

This is my experience. I have done 200mg caffiene with 100mg theacrine as a preworkout and really enjoyed it. I don't use alot of high stim products, but I notice a big difference from just that 200mg of caffiene by itself.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

This is my experience. I have done 200mg caffiene with 100mg theacrine as a preworkout and really enjoyed it. I don't use alot of high stim products, but I notice a big difference from just that 200mg of caffiene by itself.

Same here. I tried it as a straight replacement for caffeine and was very underwhelmed, but as an addition to caffeine it’s nice, and I’d say that 50-100mg Theacrine added to my normal caffeine seems better suited for a clean and smooth ride than just adding another 50-100mg caffeine.

 

[banjobounce]

Iirc, it does convert onto purines at a higher rate than caffeine does..... Not good for my gout. I do take it though.

 

[BloodManor]

I feel like it makes the caffeine last longer and makes it smoother. By itself it is pretty useless though

 

[Ape McGrapes]

If the price was comparable to caffiene I would buy bulk. I like the idea that it doesn't build tollerance, and I wouldn't mind replacing 100mg of my caffiene with it. That said; I'm not sure it has added anything significant to any of the products ive used it in, not sure many companies are using it at proper dose, and am doubtful that it lives up to the hype, or the the science adds up to the claims.

Not useless, but not of any significant necessity.

Also, Anthony Roberts thrives on sensationalism and his articles are rarely on a positive not. Usually entertaining, and informative, but probably with some bias and hidden agenda. Or he's just real arrogant and full of himself.

 

[AntM1564]

I feel like it makes the caffeine last longer and makes it smoother. By itself it is pretty useless though

This. I would not use it as a replacement for caffeine and if you are on that loves how a high stim may make you feel, then you do NOT want to add theacrine to it. I have experimented with this and here is what I found. I will use Mesomorph with DMAA for example.

One scoop with 100 mg of theacrine - is there DMAA in here?
One scoop with 50 mg - alright, there is some DMAA in here.
One scoop no thearcine - yep, there is DMAA in here.

I think the inclusion of it really depends on what and how the individual likes to feel when training.

 

[totalpackage]

I find that 50-100 mg works good at prolonging the effects of caffeine and I like to combine
it with pre's that I feel need a tad more of a kick to it. The pre's that include a good dose
that I've used and felt that the energy last longer with have been Dymatize, MYPREV2,
and Out Lift AMPED.

 

[Ricky10]

As other have said, it is best used as a synergistic product with other stims/nootropics. Using Dynamine alongside TheaCrine is supposed to be a winning combo for long and short acting effects. I know OL is coming out with a new PWO containing both ingredients. I suspect there will be others following suit.

 

[jarrellt67]

Has anyone tried combining theacrine with the popular caffeine/l-theanine stack? Seems like the three might combine well together.

 

[Ape McGrapes]

Has anyone tried combining theacrine with the popular caffeine/l-theanine stack? Seems like the three might combine well together.

Not those three only, but Vicaine, Nootropimax, and the new Focus XT, all contain those ingrediants....If my memory serves right.

 

[BCseacow83]

I actually quite like it as it decreased my subjective feelings of fatigue. When I work 15 hour night shifts I do not want to be wired I simply want to be awake and alert, teacrine at 100-150 did this perfectly. I would say for me it was similar(less potent of course) to the finils. I just like not being tired these days vs stimmed out of my mind(did that for 15 years lol.)

For those looking for a punch in the nutz preworkout I understand being underwhelmed.

I used Primaforce caps.

 

[jarrellt67]

Not those three only, but Vicaine, Nootropimax, and the new Focus XT, all contain those ingrediants....If my memory serves right.

Yeah, seems like all 3 are in many larger formulas but was curious about them alone. A quick search showed PC used to sell a product with just them...but they're no longer in business so guess I'll just need to purchase them separately. I'm thinking about trying 200 mg l-theanine, 100 mg caffeine and 100 mg theacrine.

 

[jarrellt67]

I actually quite like it as it decreased my subjective feelings of fatigue. When I work 15 hour night shifts I do not want to be wired I simply want to be awake and alert, teacrine at 100-150 did this perfectly. I would say for me it was similar(less potent of course) to the finils. I just like not being tired these days vs stimmed out of my mind(did that for 15 years lol.)

For those looking for a punch in the nutz preworkout I understand being underwhelmed.

I used Primaforce caps.

That sounds perfect.

 

[BCseacow83]

That sounds perfect.

Once again if looking for a jolt this is not the answer IMO. If you are looking for a reduction in fatigue, of which caffeine does nothing for me personally, teacrine worked very well. I also get no crash. I am a weird duck though as I used to love almost all stims and now most, caffeine included, almost always make me feel like poo. I find stim make me feel poorly when I am tired to begin with. If I have a great couple nights of sleep in a row and take stims they feel great, but then that is when I don't really need/want them so whats the point. I have simply taken too many and am getting older, not old but older.

If I was 20 again I would most likely be disappointed with solo teacrine but it suits me perfectly these days.

 

[jarrellt67]

Once again if looking for a jolt this is not the answer IMO. If you are looking for a reduction in fatigue, of which caffeine does nothing for me personally, teacrine worked very well. I also get no crash. I am a weird duck though as I used to love almost all stims and now most, caffeine included, almost always make me feel like poo. I find stim make me feel poorly when I am tired to begin with. If I have a great couple nights of sleep in a row and take stims they feel great, but then that is when I don't really need/want them so whats the point. I have simply taken too many and am getting older, not old but older.

If I was 20 again I would most likely be disappointed with solo teacrine but it suits me perfectly these days.

Definitely not looking for a jolt...just lack of tiredness like you described. Don't want anything that will aggravate my anxiety too much. Going to try it solo and with caffeine/theanine to see how the effects differ.

 

[BCseacow83]

Definitely not looking for a jolt...just lack of tiredness like you described. Don't want anything that will aggravate my anxiety too much. Going to try it solo and with caffeine/theanine to see how the effects differ.

I also noted that it seemed to "hit" slower than most "stims." Sometimes it would take 1.5 hours and I would notice a reduced fatigue feeling.

 

[jarrellt67]

Not sure what to make of theacrine at this point. So far, I've tried it three times solo...100 mg, 150 mg and 200 mg. All doses only made me feel very tired about an hour after taking (took a 2 hour nap after the 200 mg dose). However, with caffeine it's pretty nice and feels like a better combination than caffeine and l-theanine. Theacrine with caffeine seems to remove the anxiety and jitters from the caffeine while increasing focus even more.

 

[BCseacow83]

Not sure what to make of theacrine at this point. So far, I've tried it three times solo...100 mg, 150 mg and 200 mg. All doses only made me feel very tired about an hour after taking (took a 2 hour nap after the 200 mg dose). However, with caffeine it's pretty nice and feels like a better combination than caffeine and l-theanine. Theacrine with caffeine seems to remove the anxiety and jitters from the caffeine while increasing focus even more.

My system has been so abused that most stims give me a little pick up, maybe for 30 mins or so it feels good, and then I feel tired BUT am unable to sleep.

 

[horizons]

Does absolutely nothing for me

 

[DaeshDontSurf]

On the flip side, Texas Tech did a study on adding L-Theanine to Caffeine (about 150mg:200mg IIRC) in 20 healthy males in a liquid drink, and found an increase in Attention and Reaction Speed of about 6-10%. I think bulk L-Theanine is way cheaper than Theacrine?

 

[shockrock3]

Complete placebo, garbage. People have been saying this since Day 1. Dynamine I haven't tried...and quite honestly won't because it's the same effect as Theacrine, which is placebo.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

On the flip side, Texas Tech did a study on adding L-Theanine to Caffeine (about 150mg:200mg IIRC) in 20 healthy males in a liquid drink, and found an increase in Attention and Reaction Speed of about 6-10%. I think bulk L-Theanine is way cheaper than Theacrine?

Caffeine and theanine is one of the most well known and studied synergistic pairings; there are many studies on it at various doses. It’s more of a balancing and calming focus with the caffeine as opposed to strengthening the caffeine or making it stronger.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Complete placebo, garbage. People have been saying this since Day 1. Dynamine I haven't tried...and quite honestly won't because it's the same effect as Theacrine, which is placebo.

It’s no DMAA, but it’s not “placebo.” It’s very lackluster alone to replace caffeine, but is actually decent added to caffeine. Not to mention there are studies on it, and studies show that caffeine improves its bioavailability, so it makes sense it’d work better with caffeine than alone. To each his own though, but that doesn’t mean it’s “placebo.”

 

[carguy123]

Complete placebo, garbage. People have been saying this since Day 1. Dynamine I haven't tried...and quite honestly won't because it's the same effect as Theacrine, which is placebo.

I am not a fan of dynamine/theacrine at all, if this is the future in stims I'm glad I am stocked up for awhile lol.

Also clear PMs homie, your full

 

[DaeshDontSurf]

INot to mention there are studies on it, and studies show that caffeine improves its bioavailability, so it makes sense it’d work better with caffeine than alone.

Just going off what the OP quoted - are these studies for people swallowing it that don't sell it? That was one of Roberts' gripes.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Just going off what the OP quoted - are these studies for people swallowing it that don't sell it? That was one of Roberts' gripes.

I’ll double check the authors and conflicts of interest of the studies, but that isn’t inherently enough to say it’s a scam or doesn’t work, only to question if we know it does work. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

From one study:

Funding for this work was provided in part by Formulife, Inc. and The University of Memphis...

Daniel J. Kuhman and Keanan J. Joyner were responsible for subject recruitment, data collection, data entry, and assistance with manuscript preparation. Richard J. Bloomer was responsible for the study design, statistical analyses, and manuscript preparation. All authors read and approved of the final manuscript...

Richard J. Bloomer has been a Consultant for and/or Principal Investigator on research studies funded by various dietary supplement and ingredient companies, including Formulife Inc. Neither he nor the other authors have any financial interest in Formulife Inc. or in Compound Solutions, Inc., suppliers of TeaCrine™.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4663612/

And another:

The authors would like to thank the participants who graciously donated their time and efforts to complete this study. Funds from this study were provided through an externally funded grant from Compound Solutions, Inc. (Carlsbad, CA) that was awarded to the investigators at the University of Mary Hardin-Baylor. The sponsor of this study (Compound Solutions, Inc.) had no role in the collection or interpretation of the data. All testing was performed in the Human Performance Laboratory at the University of Mary Hardin-Baylor. The authors claim no financial disclosures...

The authors declare that they have no competing interests.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4711067/

 

[muscleupcrohn]

One study that wasn't funded by them and didn't have any conflicts of interest (from China):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29727630

Not a human study, but it shows there is some new research on it that isn't coming from sponsored studies.

 

[shockrock3]

One study that wasn't funded by them and didn't have any conflicts of interest (from China):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29727630

Not a human study, but it shows there is some new research on it that isn't coming from sponsored studies.

Curious...what would you consider a Mega dose of this...Something in the 225mg+ range? Still have a bottle when it first came out, might as well just use it. Thanks

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Curious...what would you consider a Mega dose of this...Something in the 225mg+ range? Still have a bottle when it first came out, might as well just use it. Thanks

200-400mg.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27164220/

 

[thebigt]

I am not a fan of dynamine/theacrine at all, if this is the future in stims I'm glad I am stocked up for awhile lol.

Also clear PMs homie, your full

hopefully the formulating guys are working on something good...it seems like decades ago when PA came out with amp/geranium!!!