The case for Cardarine.

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  1. The case for Cardarine.


    Does it actually burn fat? Or does it just increase endurance which leads to more calories burned?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Mwhite530 View Post
    Does it actually burn fat? Or does it just increase endurance which leads to more calories burned?
    Increased fat oxidation which means it has a better potential to burn fat. The compound itself does not burn fat.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Godstrength View Post
    Increased fat oxidation which means it has a better potential to burn fat. The compound itself does not burn fat.
    But at the end of the day it does help to burn fat? And how long of a cycle? Is 8 weeks enough?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Mwhite530 View Post
    But at the end of the day it does help to burn fat? And how long of a cycle? Is 8 weeks enough?
    It helps if it is in the right environment. For example if you just take cardarine and don't do anything its not going to burn any fat in the way something like EC would. If you take it and put it in an environment where your body is already going to be burning fat you will see it better facilitate that process. It also is good for endurance. 8 weeks is enough some people go longer.
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  5. Alright dude thanks I’ll pull the trigger
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  6. Personally, unless you're a competitive athlete, if fat burning is your primary goal (i.e. you're not so much concerned with increased endurance as just burning fat), I'd opt for your classic EC stack (like Godstrength mentioned) over cardarine. There's lots more data showing EC to be very effective, and it has a much more well-established safety profile (I'm not going to weigh in too much on the whole cardarine safety debate, but EC definitely seems to have a more favorable safety profile, especially for regular/consistent/long-term use).
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Personally, unless you're a competitive athlete, if fat burning is your primary goal (i.e. you're not so much concerned with increased endurance as just burning fat), I'd opt for your classic EC stack (like Godstrength mentioned) over cardarine. There's lots more data showing EC to be very effective, and it has a much more well-established safety profile (I'm not going to weigh in too much on the whole cardarine safety debate, but EC definitely seems to have a more favorable safety profile, especially for regular/consistent/long-term use).
    EC as in ephedrine caffeine? I’ve tried doing that before and I get really bad chest pains kinda frequently. Interestingly, when I tried clen I didn’t get that pain. So idk what the deal with that is, but I’d kinda prefer to stay away from ephedrine. I was doing 25mg ephedrine and ~200mg caffeine twice a day. Did I do something wrong?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Mwhite530 View Post
    EC as in ephedrine caffeine? I’ve tried doing that before and I get really bad chest pains kinda frequently. Interestingly, when I tried clen I didn’t get that pain. So idk what the deal with that is, but I’d kinda prefer to stay away from ephedrine. I was doing 25mg ephedrine and ~200mg caffeine twice a day. Did I do something wrong?
    Yeah, that's the EC I was talking about. If it didn't treat you well, then I guess it's just not for you; we all react differently. Your dosing seems pretty standard; I've seen 20mg and 200mg up to 3x per day in studies. Some people swear by cardarine, but some of the safety studies in rodents scares me away. There are some very promising initial studies in human subjects though, so it really comes down to determining risk vs reward, as most things in life do.
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Yeah, that's the EC I was talking about. If it didn't treat you well, then I guess it's just not for you; we all react differently. Your dosing seems pretty standard; I've seen 20mg and 200mg up to 3x per day in studies. Some people swear by cardarine, but some of the safety studies in rodents scares me away. There are some very promising initial studies in human subjects though, so it really comes down to determining risk vs reward, as most things in life do.
    I haven’t really read into the studies or anything but I’ve heard that the studies were at like astronomically high doses for multiple years at a time so that’s the only reason I’m not overly concerned. I’ll just be careful with it and not abuse it and I’ll hopefully be fine lol but thanks for the advice my dude!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Mwhite530 View Post
    I haven’t really read into the studies or anything but I’ve heard that the studies were at like astronomically high doses for multiple years at a time so that’s the only reason I’m not overly concerned. I’ll just be careful with it and not abuse it and I’ll hopefully be fine lol but thanks for the advice my dude!
    They actually weren't astronomically high doses; most of the "geniuses" making YouTube videos and "analyses" of the studies/research apparently don't know what HED is, so they dropped the ball on converting the doses. They took the 5mg/kg dose in rats and simply multiplied it by the human weight to get 400mg for an 80kg human. They forgot the HED conversion factor (you have to multiply the rat dose of 5mg/kg by 0.16 to get the human dose in mg/kg). That turns 5mg/kg into 0.8mg, which gives you a dose of 64mg for an 80kg human, which is only 2-3x the dose a lot of people use. There is some debate over if it "causes" cancer, or only increases the growth of existing cancer or potentiates the effects of other carcinogens, but none of those sound like particularly good things to me, but it's your call what to do. There's also debate over the risks of using it for a few weeks every once in a while as opposed to regularly/long-term, but I think I'll wait for more user feedback over a longer period of time.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    They actually weren't astronomically high doses; most of the "geniuses" making YouTube videos and "analyses" of the studies/research apparently don't know what HED is, so they dropped the ball on converting the doses. They took the 5mg/kg dose in rats and simply multiplied it by the human weight to get 400mg for an 80kg human. They forgot the HED conversion factor (you have to multiply the rat dose of 5mg/kg by 0.16 to get the human dose in mg/kg). That turns 5mg/kg into 0.8mg, which gives you a dose of 64mg for an 80kg human, which is only 2-3x the dose a lot of people use. There is some debate over if it "causes" cancer, or only increases the growth of existing cancer or potentiates the effects of other carcinogens, but none of those sound like particularly good things to me, but it's your call what to do. There's also debate over the risks of using it for a few weeks every once in a while as opposed to regularly/long-term, but I think I'll wait for more user feedback over a longer period of time.
    Oh wow alright I never even knew about the HED factor. I’ll try it when I get it then probably stay away until there’s more evidence.
  12. The case for Cardarine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mwhite530 View Post
    Oh wow alright I never even knew about the HED factor. Iíll try it when I get it then probably stay away until thereís more evidence.
    Lots of people say that itís probably fine if you arenít predisposed to cancer, arenít exposed to a lot of carcinogens (smoking, work-related, etc), and only use it for for short-ish cycles with a while in between, but I donít know either way. Youíll most likely be fine with this one cycle if nothing else, and you can always form an opinion on risk vs reward after youíve tried it I guess. We know smoking is very bad for you, but you probably wonít get lung cancer by smoking for a month, if that makes any sense. But you still probably wouldnít want to smoke for a month every other or third month for years (regular cycling), if that also makes any sense.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Lots of people say that it’s probably fine if you aren’t predisposed to cancer, aren’t exposed to a lot of carcinogens (smoking, work-related, etc), and only use it for for short-ish cycles with a while in between, but I don’t know either way. You’ll most likely be fine with this one cycle if nothing else, and you can always form an opinion on risk vs reward after you’ve tried it I guess. We know smoking is very bad for you, but you probably won’t get lung cancer by smoking for a month, if that makes any sense. But you still probably wouldn’t want to smoke for a month every other or third month for years (regular cycling), if that also makes any sense.
    That all makes total sense man. Thanks a lot for the help I’ve never really been able to find info on Cardarine just by searching.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Mwhite530 View Post
    That all makes total sense man. Thanks a lot for the help I’ve never really been able to find info on Cardarine just by searching.
    No problem. Here's a surprisingly in-depth summary on it that discusses the human and rodent studies:
    https://www.tga.gov.au/book-page/12-cardarine
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  15. Wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole. GSK abruptly abandoned a potential multi billion dollar product.... That should tell you something..

  16. Quote Originally Posted by aovereem View Post
    Wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole. GSK abruptly abandoned a potential multi billion dollar product.... That should tell you something..
    What is gsk

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Mwhite530 View Post
    What is gsk
    Glaxosmithkline, one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world

  18. Quote Originally Posted by aovereem View Post
    Glaxosmithkline, one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world
    Did they abandon it bc of the cancer scare or because of the efficacy?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Mwhite530 View Post
    Did they abandon it bc of the cancer scare or because of the efficacy?

    They abandoned it in 2007 for undisclosed reasons. As far as I know it later emerged the reason was because of the rapid cancer development in rodents.

  20. Or it cured cancer. Who really knows. They dosed it so high and the rats already had tumors.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    Or it cured cancer. Who really knows. They dosed it so high and the rats already had tumors.
    If anyone's dumb enough to gamble that's fine by me. The doses given weren't that high though

  22. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    Or it cured cancer. Who really knows. They dosed it so high and the rats already had tumors.
    I just went over this; the doses only seem high if you don't know what HED is. The lowest dose that was found to increase cancer growth was equivalent to around 64mg for an 80kg human. That's "so high?" In regards to clinical trials, it's typically recommended to apply a factor of safety of 10 when starting human trials. That means you take the dose that was found to be safe in rodents, find the HED dose, and then divide that by 10 to find your starting dose for evaluating it's safety in humans. ~64mg equivalent was the lowest dose used, and even that wasn't found to be "safe," we we'd have to go lower. Now divide that by 10, and we have lower than 6.4mg

    At the end of the day, we really don't know, it's possible it doesn't cause cancer, but only increases the growth of existing cancer, or maybe it potentiates the effects of other carcinogens, but dismissing the research by choosing to ignore HED conversion is just wrong.
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  23. I know what HED is. Did I really need an /s tag #sarcasm...
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by aovereem View Post
    They abandoned it in 2007 for undisclosed reasons. As far as I know it later emerged the reason was because of the rapid cancer development in rodents.
    Not only did GSK abandon it, but it looks like Ligand Pharmaceuticals did as well.
    Under the terms of the research and development agreement between Ligand and GSK, GSK is responsible for the development and registration of GW501516, and will continue to pay Ligand milestone payments as the product moves through the development process. GSK has exclusive worldwide marketing rights to GW501516, and will pay Ligand significant royalties on potential product sales. If GSK decides not to proceed with development of GW510516, Ligand will retain the right to develop and commercialize the product.
    https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Ligan.....-a0118100294
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    I know what HED is. Did I really need an /s tag #sarcasm...
    I figured the first part about curing cancer was sarcasm, but considering how many people actually think the doses used were high, including some "gurus" and "experts" on YouTube, you never really know.
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