Looking for something to help with recovery....

[DWeaver]

So I'm 43 years old and up until now recovery hasn't been a big deal but for the last several months I've been staying sore longer than I use to and it's definitely hurting me. I changed up my workout from a 5x5 to an 8x8 and I'm assuming this is why I'm more sore than normal. So right now all I take is Mesomorph as my pre and I add PA to it. On off days I take BA, Creatine and PA. I start drinking a protein shake towards the end of my workout. I'm cutting so I also take ECY and Shift. So whatcha think I need?

 

[tsmog]

You can try lowering your training volume to 5x8 and add some EAA's for better muscle recovery. How many hours of sleep do you get?

 

[The Solution]

What does your diet look like? And how large is your dietary deficit
How much cardio are you doing while dieting?
How much sleep are you getting?
Do you stretch or rumble roll?

Pills and powders are the last resort to solve any problems. Supplements and simply that meant to help supplement your diet and training

My guess is either the deficit is too large or your not doing any kind of static stretching or rumble rolling to help release some of those sore body parts

 

[DWeaver]

What does your diet look like? And how large is your dietary deficit
How much cardio are you doing while dieting?
How much sleep are you getting?
Do you stretch or rumble roll?

Pills and powders are the last resort to solve any problems. Supplements and simply that meant to help supplement your diet and training

My guess is either the deficit is too large or your not doing any kind of static stretching or rumble rolling to help release some of those sore body parts

I weigh 175 lbs and right now and I'm 300 cals under maintenance, pretty much all of that is carbs. My cardio is HIIT with ropes and sleds. I do a little bit of this after I lift but 2 days a week are my HIIT days. Sleep is normal. I've got a 3 year old so "good sleep" can be tough at times but for the most part it's fine. I don't stretch much but do some, because I foam roll 3-4 days a week with my Hyperice vibrating foam roller, that thing is amazing.

 

[The Solution]

I weigh 175 lbs and right now and I'm 300 cals under maintenance, pretty much all of that is carbs. My cardio is HIIT with ropes and sleds. I do a little bit of this after I lift but 2 days a week are my HIIT days. Sleep is normal. I've got a 3 year old so "good sleep" can be tough at times but for the most part it's fine. I don't stretch much but do some, because I foam roll 3-4 days a week with my Hyperice vibrating foam roller, that thing is amazing.

So you do HIIT Everyday? Is that correct? How much LISS do you do on top of your HIIT? How many intervals are you doing and how long is each session?

Doing 7x a week of HIIT (correct me if wrong here) on top of high volume training when in a deficit is most likely the problem. You have to realize as calories get lower, doing more volume is counterproductive to maintaining mass as you are just expanding excessive glycogen you don't have in your current dietary deficit

What does your dietary setup look like for pre/post workout nutrition and what are your total calories/macros?
You should really start hitting some static stretching, also work with bands and pull your leg up (lying on the ground) to each side and across your body (iron cross). Roll on your stomach bring your leg back to your mid back, and then also extend your leg to get your lower back, hips, and Glutes. This will really help release a lot of soreness in your body especially the trigger points which hold them the most.

 

[WesleyInman]

BCAA, Hydrolized Proteins, MK677, creatine, and even Laxogenin come to mind for me in terms of advancing Recovery.

 

[DWeaver]

So you do HIIT Everyday? Is that correct? How much LISS do you do on top of your HIIT? How many intervals are you doing and how long is each session?

Doing 7x a week of HIIT (correct me if wrong here) on top of high volume training when in a deficit is most likely the problem. You have to realize as calories get lower, doing more volume is counterproductive to maintaining mass as you are just expanding excessive glycogen you don't have in your current dietary deficit

What does your dietary setup look like for pre/post workout nutrition and what are your total calories/macros?
You should really start hitting some static stretching, also work with bands and pull your leg up (lying on the ground) to each side and across your body (iron cross). Roll on your stomach bring your leg back to your mid back, and then also extend your leg to get your lower back, hips, and Glutes. This will really help release a lot of soreness in your body especially the trigger points which hold them the most.

On lifting days I'll finish my workout off with with 3, 30 second intervals of ropes. On non lifting days I do 10 sets of 30 second battle ropes and do some lateral sled lower body leg pulls. My cals, macros numbers are not going to be perfect but maint cals is around 2800 and I'm right now around 300 under that. (50/30/20) is what I try to shoot for but because of my job, getting everything perfect is almost impossible so I do as good as I can. Most of my carbs are pre and post workout, on non workout days I just spread them out.

 

[The Solution]

On lifting days I'll finish my workout off with with 3, 30 second intervals of ropes. On non lifting days I do 10 sets of 30 second battle ropes and do some lateral sled lower body leg pulls. My cals, macros numbers are not going to be perfect but maint cals is around 2800 and I'm right now around 300 under that. (50/30/20) is what I try to shoot for but because of my job, getting everything perfect is almost impossible so I do as good as I can. Most of my carbs are pre and post workout, on non workout days I just spread them out.

Ok you are not answering my questions.
Are you doing HIIT Everyday? Yes or No? I see you are doing it workout and non workout days, but you never answered the question..
If you are... this is probably a major reason why you are feeling worn down and sore
How much LISS are you doing? On top of HIIT which is going to drain people (Who actually do it 100%) this is just added expenditure which could be cut to help with recovery.
Do you take any FULL Rest days from the gym? No Cardio, no training?
Why do you feel you need to add volume as you lower calories and get into a deficit? That is the opposite of what you should be doing to help preserve muscle mass due to expanding more glycogen.

Personally I would cut back the HIIT , sounds like it is almost every single day which is very demanding on the body especially your legs.
Move your volume back to the 5x5, but throw in some hypertrophy work in your program and some cell swelling (reps of 50-100) as a last exercise with very light weight and full range of motion.

Let the diet do the work instead of increasing Cardio and lifting volume .. This is probably the big culprit on why you can't recover and sore all the time..
Sometimes MORE is not always BETTER.. think about that.. your trying to diet. doing a lot more volume when calories are restricted means the body has a harder time to recover. Think big picture here.

 

[DWeaver]

Ok you are not answering my questions.
Are you doing HIIT Everyday? Yes or No? I see you are doing it workout and non workout days, but you never answered the question..
If you are... this is probably a major reason why you are feeling worn down and sore
How much LISS are you doing? On top of HIIT which is going to drain people (Who actually do it 100%) this is just added expenditure which could be cut to help with recovery.
Do you take any FULL Rest days from the gym? No Cardio, no training?
Why do you feel you need to add volume as you lower calories and get into a deficit? That is the opposite of what you should be doing to help preserve muscle mass due to expanding more glycogen.

Personally I would cut back the HIIT , sounds like it is almost every single day which is very demanding on the body especially your legs.
Move your volume back to the 5x5, but throw in some hypertrophy work in your program and some cell swelling (reps of 50-100) as a last exercise with very light weight and full range of motion.

Let the diet do the work instead of increasing Cardio and lifting volume .. This is probably the big culprit on why you can't recover and sore all the time..
Sometimes MORE is not always BETTER.. think about that.. your trying to diet. doing a lot more volume when calories are restricted means the body has a harder time to recover. Think big picture here.

HIIT, 2 days a week

I'm assuming you are considering my 8x8 workout a LISS with one min rest between sets? I do that 3 days a week. Saturday or Sunday, depending on how it falls I take off and one day through the week I take off.

Thanks for your help. Hope I'm not too aggravating, I'm just kinda new to getting my diet on track. Up until a few years ago I could just about eat whatever I wanted because I did a lot of sprinting but both my calves became scare tissued up so bad that I had to give up running and find a cardio alternative.

 

[The Solution]

. My cardio is HIIT with ropes and sleds. I do a little bit of this after I lift but 2 days a week are my HIIT days. Sleep is normal. I've got a 3 year old so "good sleep" can be tough at times but for the most part it's fine. I don't stretch much but do some, because I foam roll 3-4 days a week with my Hyperice vibrating foam roller, that thing is amazing.

On lifting days I'll finish my workout off with with 3, 30 second intervals of ropes. On non lifting days I do 10 sets of 30 second battle ropes and do some lateral sled lower body leg pulls. .

HIIT, 2 days a week
.

Your not really making any sense here with your input.
Your telling me you do HIIT after your workout on every workout day (Which is how many days????) and then 2 days of HIIT on non-workout days. That would mean every single day your doing HIIT . Unless I am somehow missing something

LISS = low intensity steady state.. that does not mean resting between sets. That means walking on the treadmill or doing a low intensity long duration session of cardio.. say 20-30-40-50-60 minutes worth at a time.

how many days your lifting?? I am getting maybe 3-4??

I would back your HIIT Down to just after your workouts. Say 5 intervals do that 3-4x a week (15 seconds all out, 45 seconds recovery), and on 2 of your off days do 30 minutes of low intensity cardio , 3-4 sets of abs, and spend 20-30 minutes stretching and rumble rolling.Really hammer your IT Bands, glutes, hamstrings, calves (which I bet are rocks) and your low back. once you loosen those up you will feel instant relief.

 

[DWeaver]

Your not really making any sense here with your input.
Your telling me you do HIIT after your workout on every workout day (Which is how many days????) and then 2 days of HIIT on non-workout days. That would mean every single day your doing HIIT . Unless I am somehow missing something

LISS = low intensity steady state.. that does not mean resting between sets. That means walking on the treadmill or doing a low intensity long duration session of cardio.. say 20-30-40-50-60 minutes worth at a time.

how many days your lifting?? I am getting maybe 3-4??

I would back your HIIT Down to just after your workouts. Say 5 intervals do that 3-4x a week (15 seconds all out, 45 seconds recovery), and on 2 of your off days do 30 minutes of low intensity cardio , 3-4 sets of abs, and spend 20-30 minutes stretching and rumble rolling.Really hammer your IT Bands, glutes, hamstrings, calves (which I bet are rocks) and your low back. once you loosen those up you will feel instant relief.

Ok let me reexplain this....

I lift 3 days a week. Sometimes I will do a couple sets of ropes to finish off the workout. It's not a HIIT session.

2 days a week I do HIIT. I have different ways of doing this but for the most part it lasts for roughly 20 min.

I do not do and steady state cardio or LISS.

 

[The Solution]

Ok let me reexplain this....

I lift 3 days a week. Sometimes I will do a couple sets of ropes to finish off the workout. It's not a HIIT session.

2 days a week I do HIIT. I have different ways of doing this but for the most part it lasts for roughly 20 min.

I do not do and steady state cardio or LISS.

Then that makes more sense because saying yeah i do ropes and stuff after my workout is misleading because you were not being complete with your response.
Do this:
On workout days 5 Intervals 15 seconds all out, 45 seconds rest (3x a week)
30 minutes of LISS (3x a week) + Stretching + Ab's + Rumble rolling
1 Full rest day

This should help release some extra stress off the legs with less HIIT Work, but still getting the expenditure with the LISS, and added stretching
Focus on: Low back, IT Bands, Glutes, Hamstrings, Calves (most people's calves are rocks) that could help loosen up a lot of things.

 

[dvw]

L carnitine L tartate, bcaa with eaa. Buy amino acid powder that has both bcaa & eaa then just add carnitine. Drink post work out.

 

[DWeaver]

Then that makes more sense because saying yeah i do ropes and stuff after my workout is misleading because you were not being complete with your response.
Do this:
On workout days 5 Intervals 15 seconds all out, 45 seconds rest (3x a week)
30 minutes of LISS (3x a week) + Stretching + Ab's + Rumble rolling
1 Full rest day

This should help release some extra stress off the legs with less HIIT Work, but still getting the expenditure with the LISS, and added stretching
Focus on: Low back, IT Bands, Glutes, Hamstrings, Calves (most people's calves are rocks) that could help loosen up a lot of things.

Ok thanks a lot for your help

 

[The Solution]

Ok thanks a lot for your help

Report back in about a week, let me know how its treating you that should get the ball rolling
Supp wise for recovery you would want to look into:

2g LCLT
1.5g HICA
2.5g Betaine
3-5g Creatine
2.5g Synerglut
2g COP
6-8g Citrulline

or look into an all an one ergogenic such as PES Ergonine and take it around your workout (i like to take it pre/intra workout). If you are already meeting protein intake with your dietary needs which it sounds like you are. the need for a BCAA would be a waste since your already meeting protein intake. My 2 cents.

 

[R1balla]

The solution has you covered 100%!!!!!!! I love foam rolling as well. Helps me a ton.

 

[Robert5891]

Foam rolling, stretching, mobility work, epsom salt baths, and iForce Finish Line will help with recovery.

Finish line contains LCLT and L alanine /L glutamine which can enhance recovery following tough training.

 

[AntM1564]

Then that makes more sense because saying yeah i do ropes and stuff after my workout is misleading because you were not being complete with your response.
Do this:
On workout days 5 Intervals 15 seconds all out, 45 seconds rest (3x a week)
30 minutes of LISS (3x a week) + Stretching + Ab's + Rumble rolling
1 Full rest day

This should help release some extra stress off the legs with less HIIT Work, but still getting the expenditure with the LISS, and added stretching
Focus on: Low back, IT Bands, Glutes, Hamstrings, Calves (most people's calves are rocks) that could help loosen up a lot of things.

This is great advice. LISS is really beneficial. It will help get your blood flowing. Also, rolling is great advice as well. Rumble rollers can hurt, I would start with a basic foam roller. I would also purchase a lacrosse ball for shoulders, calves and some areas of the back.

Here is some good info on rolling.

Giving yourself a massage with a foam roller after a heavy workout reduces muscle soreness and slightly speeds up the recovery of the muscles you've trained. Australian sports scientists explain this in the Journal of Athletic Training. Is the effect big enough to incorporate foam-roller treatments in your routines? That's up to you.

http://www.ergo-log.com/self-massage-with-foam-roller-speeds-up-post-strength-training-recovery.html

Not to mention rolling can help with mobility. Here are some good movements.

https://barbend.com/best-foam-roller-exercises-upper-lower-back/

I would also look into an ergogenic aid, as mentioned in this thread. PowerMax XT, Ergonine, Triumph, and Finish Line are all great products that will aid in strength, size, and recovery.

 

[The Express 42]

Intra workout nutrition is often way overlooked. Try sipping on BCAA's, 5g Creatine, 2.5g Betaine, 3.2g Beta Alanine (Carnosyn) and 30g Cyclic Dextrin throughout your workout. A good product to look into is Recovery Factor by Grantine Supplements. You can also find most of these ingredients in bulk by SNS

 

[muscleupcrohn]

There's some good advice here. I personally like EAAs+Leucine or WPH+Leucine intra-workout above BCAAs. I'm definitely looking forward to the new PowerMax XT that contains WPH and leucine, plus tried and true creatine and betaine (and more) like always. I like to add some Gatorade powder to it for carbs. Bulk HMB is also a good option to help with recovery.

 

[MARK_]

Iforce Nutrition has a product called Finish Line that is designed specifically for post workout as a recovery supplement.

 

[DWeaver]

I went ahead and ordered PowerMax XT. I've got a pump product from Muscle Feast I take. Anyone see a problem with taking these 2 PWO together?

 

[DWeaver]

Edit

 

[AntM1564]

I see nothing conflicting there!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I went ahead and ordered PowerMax XT. I've got a pump product from Muscle Feast I take. Anyone see a problem with taking these 2 PWO together?View attachment 150785
View attachment 150787

You should be good to go, although some people report a bit of an upset stomach using high doses of betaine at one time, and you have 5g total. It may not be an issue at all, but it's something to be aware of. Also, I don't know if I've ever seen TMG standardized for nitrates haha.

 

[macwad]

HMB on bulk. Thanks me latter

 

[DWeaver]

You should be good to go, although some people report a bit of an upset stomach using high doses of betaine at one time, and you have 5g total. It may not be an issue at all, but it's something to be aware of. Also, I don't know if I've ever seen TMG standardized for nitrates haha.

Taking that MF PWO solo is a great product. Pumps are outstanding. It's 23$ for 25 servings or 4 tubs (100 servings) for 50$.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

You mean 2g Beta-Alanine and 2.5g Betaine

Unless I'm reading something wrong, both MF and PowerMax XT contain 2.5g betaine, and 2.5 + 2.5 = 5 if he takes the two of them together.

 

[DWeaver]

Unless I'm reading something wrong, both MF and PowerMax XT contain 2.5g betaine, and 2.5 + 2.5 = 5 if he takes the two of them together.

Yeah he may have missed the TMG in the MF.

 

[R1balla]

Yeah he may have missed the TMG in the MF.

Weaver, are you planning on logging this?

 

[MARK_]

I went ahead and ordered PowerMax XT. I've got a pump product from Muscle Feast I take. Anyone see a problem with taking these 2 PWO together?View attachment 150785
View attachment 150787

Looks fine

 

[cobri66]

Foam rolling, stretching, mobility work, epsom salt baths, and iForce Finish Line will help with recovery.

Finish line contains LCLT and L alanine /L glutamine which can enhance recovery following tough training.

Another plug for Finish Line ...really seems to help with DOMS

 

[Mixelflick]

I'll suggest Mass Pro Synthagen, which uses the following ingredients..

* All 9 EAA's in a very specific ratio
* L-Taurine
* Magnesium Asparate
* Beta-Alanine
* Orotic Acid
* Tri Methyl Glycine
* Full spectrum Rhaponticum Carthamoides Extract
* ElevATP

Take 5 right before training, 5 halfway through and 5 immediately post workout. Off days, it's 3 caps just prior to your 3 biggest meals of the day. I'll put this up against anything on the market, and in fact we have a money back guarantee if you're not completely satisfied. That's not to say there aren't other excellent products here. There are, and I encourage you to put them head to head with MPS. The more you compare, the better we look.

Otherwise, recovery is dependent upon so many other factors..

1.) Your training workload
2.) Your diet
3.) The amount and quality of sleep
4.) Stress levels
5.) Test to Cortisol ratio. Everyone's focused on upping test, very few realize it's the test/cortisol ratio that really matters

I find short sessions (30 minutes or less) ideal for improving recovery. Again, it goes back to test vs. cortisol. After the 45 minute mark of intense work, cortisol starts to really dominate. Doubly so, if you're using a high stim pre-workout. Sure they give you more energy, some even allow you to lift more. But by digging a bigger hole, you're not really doing yourself any favors. I rather like nootropics combined with a smidgeon of a CNS stimulant vs. the cracked out, sweaty and paranoid pre-workouts today that use high dose caffeine, yohimbe and other strong stimulants..The kiddies feel something though, so they think it's working LOL.

You are right to focus on Recovery, as the Russian had a saying, "Recovery is everything". And it is. Because the more productive sessions you can get in every week/month or year, the faster you'll grow...