Megadosing Vitamin C

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  1. Megadosing Vitamin C


    I want some bro's with some good understanding of the subject to comment on High Dose usage of Vitamin C. There are a ton of advocates out there, not the least of which was Linus Pauling. Your thoughts, expierences, etc. please!


  2. I have been doing about 8 grams a day for the last few days and one thing that intrigues me is that my urine color has not gone even remotely yellow which is typical when you are taking a mutivitamin. Its means your pissing out the excess. Could it be that my body is actually using up that much C? Could there be a huge deficiency right now in my body chemistry?

    Benz, I would love your input on this!
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  3. Just a quick thought. Einstein took 10 grs per day.

  4. Originally posted by bachovas
    Just a quick thought. Einstein took 10 grs per day.
    Many other scientific/researcher types did high dosing of C. Interesting indeed.
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  5. I usually have 2500mg-3000mg. When I feel a cold coming I bump it to 5000mg.

  6. Originally posted by windwords7
    I have been doing about 8 grams a day for the last few days and one thing that intrigues me is that my urine color has not gone even remotely yellow which is typical when you are taking a mutivitamin. Its means your pissing out the excess. Could it be that my body is actually using up that much C? Could there be a huge deficiency right now in my body chemistry?

    Benz, I would love your input on this!
    I have read it is B vitamins in supplements that cause the deep yellow color in urine. Most of the B vitamins are cheap so multi-vitamin manufacturers frequently overdose their product with them. Since the B vitamins are water soluble it isn't injurious to health to consume excess amounts. The excess, as you wrote, is simply pissed out. Vitamin C is also water soluble and any excess would also be excreted in your urine but I don't think it causes the urine to be yellow.

  7. Thanks Guy.

  8. Not a perfect example of a study, but notice the increase in glutathione in C group. Look for studies guys!

    Vitamin C augments lymphocyte glutathione in subjects with ascorbate deficiency.

    Lenton KJ, Sane AT, Therriault H, Cantin AM, Payette H, Wagner JR.


    Centre de Recherche sur le Vieillissement, Institut Universitaire de Geriatrie de Sherbrooke, PQ, Canada.

    BACKGROUND: Ascorbate and glutathione play central roles in the defense against free radicals and oxidants that are implicated in chronic diseases. OBJECTIVE: The objective was to determine the ability of vitamin C supplements to modulate the concentration of glutathione in human lymphocytes. DESIGN: The effect of vitamin C supplements was determined in a sequential study with time points before supplementation, after 13 wk of vitamin C supplements (500 or 1000 mg/d), and after 13 wk of matching placebo. The supplementation group was selected on the basis of low plasma ascorbate (<33 mmol/L) and consisted of 48 healthy men and women, smokers and nonsmokers, aged 25-64 y. Ascorbate and glutathione were measured in purified lymphocytes. RESULTS: At baseline, the mean (+/-SD) concentration of plasma ascorbate was 19.5 +/- 7.2 micro mol/L, 22.5 micro mol/L below the median of normal distribution. The ascorbate concentration in plasma was linearly associated with that in lymphocytes (r = 0.53, P < 0.001). On supplementation with vitamin C, lymphocyte ascorbate increased by 51% (from 16.7 +/- 4.9 to 25.3 +/- 6.9 nmol/mg protein; P < 0.001) and was accompanied by an increase of lymphocyte glutathione by 18% (from 22.5 +/- 4.5 to 26.6 +/- 6.5 nmol/mg protein; P < 0.001). After placebo, the ascorbate and glutathione concentrations fell to near baseline concentrations (17.1 +/- 5.4 and 23.5 +/- 6.4 nmol/mg protein, respectively). No significant interaction was observed for sex and smoking status. Finally, the changes in lymphocyte ascorbate after supplementation were strongly associated with changes in lymphocyte glutathione (r = 0.71, P < 0.001). The association suggests that every 1-mol change in ascorbate is accompanied by a change of approximately 0.5 mol in glutathione. CONCLUSION: Vitamin C supplements increase glutathione in human lymphocytes.

    Publication Types:

    • Clinical Trial



    PMID: 12499341 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

  9. Now this is the kind of junk that is fed by doctors who rely on a few selected studies:

    http://www.drsinatra.com/nc/mega_dosing.asp

  10. One final thought. although mega-doses of Vitamin C are not toxic, diarrhea can result when the form taken is ascorbic acid. To avoid this, take a buffered form of Vitamin C when mega-dosing. The buffered form that most recommend is Ester C.

  11. Great stuff! Thanks for all of that. Anyone else have some good info?

  12. Do you know of any place that sells large quantities of vitamins in powder form?

    WYD

  13. Linus Pauling said that no virus could survive in a system where the cells were kept saturated with Vit-C. I believe him. Remember, he is listed in the Guiness book of records as the only man to win an unshared Nobel prize twice. They nearly awarded him a 3rd unshared Nobel for his discovery of the cause of Sickle Cell Anemia, until they remembered he had already won twice before. He also stated that each person was different and one might require 1 gram of C every hour to cure the common cold, while another might need 4 GRAMS EVERY HOUR!!! He, himself used the higher dose.

    I also saw him on TV, where he stated that no virus is comfortable in an alkali system, which means cut back on protein while sick. He stated that for years he knew the effects of Vit-C and Vit-E were synergistic, but felt there was a missing link to his anti-oxidant triangle. Just about 10 years ago, he concluded, along with reserarchers at the Shute Heart Clinic, that the missing corner of this triangle was the trace-mineral Selenium. They feel in the correct mega-dose combination, the synergistic effects of this super anti-oxidant combination can cure every heart ailment except a bundle branch block, even including severe angina. Due to constant uphill battling with the FDA, the Shute Brothers built their new clinic in Canada. Funny, some of the more progressive vets here in Cincinnati, give dogs and cats Vit-C for urinary and bladder infections, while most MDs just laugh at the idea.

    I myself take 1 gram Vit-C every hour on the hour for any virus. I also take a garlicin garlic tab and echinacea with golden seal every hour as well. I can have a 103 degree fever, shakes, the works. Usually always completely gone in less than 24 hrs. Sometimes a stubborn cold will hang on a little longer. I consider water of vital importance when ill, and everyone should read the little book, "The Body's Many Cries For Water."

    As far as urine color, Vit B-6 is the one most likely to turn urine a deep shade of yellow. Vit-C has no effect on this. With ENOUGH water, it will only be a light shade of yellow, anyway. Colored urine is a sign of mild dehydration, excepting large doses of B-complex. Just my 2 cents.

  14. Good stuff benz!

  15. Great stuff, thanks John. I up my dosage of vit C to about 5-6 g grams daily when I have any form of cold or sickness (normal is 3g daily), have for about the past 5 years and haven't stayed sick any much longer than 2 days in that time. This is of course anecdotal and speculatory, but adds nonetheless to the discussion.

  16. Originally posted by bachovas
    Just a quick thought. Einstein took 10 grs per day.
    Albert Einstein and Linus Pauling were close personal friends.
    Originally posted by GuyinLA
    One final thought. although mega-doses of Vitamin C are not toxic, diarrhea can result when the form taken is ascorbic acid. To avoid this, take a buffered form of Vitamin C when mega-dosing. The buffered form that most recommend is Ester C.
    I would NOT recommend ester-C. The patented ester process involves heating the vitamin and I am leary of this. Pauling always advocated the keep it simple theory that the cheapest ascorbic acid powder in bulk form was at least as effective as the fancy labeled varieties costing 10 times as much in a health food store. BTW, I have never experienced diarrhea from excess vit-C.

  17. Great Thread guys!

  18. My cold has certainly not gotten as severe, it would seem, after doing mega dosing for the last two days.

  19. Originally posted by John Benz

    Albert Einstein and Linus Pauling were close personal friends.

    I would NOT recommend ester-C. The patented ester process involves heating the vitamin and I am leary of this. Pauling always advocated the keep it simple theory that the cheapest ascorbic acid powder in bulk form was at least as effective as the fancy labeled varieties costing 10 times as much in a health food store. BTW, I have never experienced diarrhea from excess vit-C.
    If my memory serves (I'm no youngster), I think Pauling was addressing the source, not form, of Vitamin C. Back in the seventies (when Pauling was writing extensively on Vitamin C) there used to be a raging debate on whether to get vitamin supplements from "natural" or "synthetic" sources. One of the so-called natural sources of Vitamin C back then was rose hips (there were others as well). Naturally, the so-called natural source was more expensive (translate more profitable to producers/retailers). Pauling knew that this was all nonsense. All vitamin supplements are essentially synthesized so it didn't matter whether the source was rose hips or not. It just mattered that it was Vitamin C. Today, this debate has gone away and "natural" is rarely marketed anymore, so Dr. Pauling saw through all this hype before most did.

    If plain ascorbic acid causes no stomach upset, then that is the way to go since I am sure that is the cheapest form of Vitamin C. However, for many the inclusion of a buffering agent is advisable, especially when consuming mega-doses. Ester-C is one type of buffered Vitamin C. There are others (usually calcium ascorbate). My central point was to raise the issue of buffered vs. plain Vitamin C. I wasn't aware of any criticism against Ester-C and would be interested in knowing more.

  20. Originally posted by whosyourdaddy02
    Do you know of any place that sells large quantities of vitamins in powder form?
    WYD
    Originally posted by John Benz

    I would NOT recommend ester-C. The patented ester process involves heating the vitamin and I am leary of this. Pauling always advocated the keep it simple theory that the cheapest ascorbic acid powder in bulk form was at least as effective as the fancy labeled varieties costing 10 times as much in a health food store. BTW, I have never experienced diarrhea from excess vit-C.
    Ascorbic Acid:
    www.bulkfoods.com

    2 pounds for 28.60$
    They also sell whey protein Isolate 90% (plain, unflavored) 5 pounds for 38 bucks

  21. The Vitamin C sold at bulkfoods.com is calcium ascorbate, i.e. buffered, and sells for $22.07 for 2 pounds. If you want ascorbic acid, beyond-a-century.com sells it for $22.00 for 1,000 grams, which is equivalent to 2.2 pounds. The ascorbic acid is cheaper, but see my earlier posts.

  22. Originally posted by GuyinLA


    If my memory serves (I'm no youngster), I think Pauling was addressing the source, not form, of Vitamin C. Back in the seventies (when Pauling was writing extensively on Vitamin C) there used to be a raging debate on whether to get vitamin supplements from "natural" or "synthetic" sources. One of the so-called natural sources of Vitamin C back then was rose hips (there were others as well). Naturally, the so-called natural source was more expensive (translate more profitable to producers/retailers). Pauling knew that this was all nonsense. All vitamin supplements are essentially synthesized so it didn't matter whether the source was rose hips or not. It just mattered that it was Vitamin C. Today, this debate has gone away and "natural" is rarely marketed anymore, so Dr. Pauling saw through all this hype before most did.

    If plain ascorbic acid causes no stomach upset, then that is the way to go since I am sure that is the cheapest form of Vitamin C. However, for many the inclusion of a buffering agent is advisable, especially when consuming mega-doses. Ester-C is one type of buffered Vitamin C. There are others (usually calcium ascorbate). My central point was to raise the issue of buffered vs. plain Vitamin C. I wasn't aware of any criticism against Ester-C and would be interested in knowing more.
    Why the Vitamin C Foundation Does Not Recommend Ester-CŪ

    By Owen R Fonorow

    According to Robert Cathcart,MD, the physician with vast experience with high dose vitamin C protocols, mineral ascorbates are generally not as effective therapeutically as ascorbic acid:

    "...it was not entirely clear that the dramatic effects are always with ascorbic acid orally and sodium ascorbate intravenously. I have not been able to achieve the ascorbate effect with mineral ascorbates orally. Mineral ascorbates are fine forms of vitamin C but when you are really sick, the mitochondria are failing in their refueling of the free radical scavengers with electrons. The ascorbic acid carries 2 extra electrons per molecule where the mineral ascorbates seem to carry only one (plus per molecule the mineral ascorbates are heavier due to the mineral weighing more than the hydrogen the mineral replaces). So the mineral ascorbates are not potent enough to accomplish the ascorbate effect. There may be other reasons that we do not appreciate additionally." Robert Cathcart, III, MD

    Another of our concerns is balancing the exaggerated hype against the following down-side about the Ester-C manufacturing process, as expressed by people experienced in the field, who wish to remain annonymous:


    "Note: it's my understanding that Roche at al. have long been less than thrilled with Inter-Cal's method for making Ester-C(r). After all, when C is heated to high temps under pressure, as their patent specifies, dehydroascorbate (DHA), to the tune of about 10% by weight of finished product, is the consequence. Of course, their claim to fame was that other organic acids were formed by their process, for which they claimed proprietary effects. But, there's no hiding the DHA content -- for which they sort of disingenuously claim biological value, based on the fact, I guess, that DHA can be reduced to to work again as an antioxidant." E. F.

    It is true that Ester-C reaches cells and enters them faster. An anonymous informant with ties to the U.S. biological weapons program told us:


    "Ester-C is not an ester. My late friend was a former scientist involved in biochemical warfare with a high security clearance. He dissected the patent and had several meetings with Dr. Virlangieri, one of the researchers that touted its virtues. My friend favored good old ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate. He told me quite literally that ester-C was "two pounds of 'dung' in a one pound bag." He was an avid Pauling devote and was concerned that under certain conditions, ester-C was dangerous and contraindicated. The prevailing propaganda changed from its being an ester to its providing threonine metabolites. He told me that Pauling would have laughed the ester-C boys back to chemistry class! " R. L.

  23. RE: Ester-C article. First of all, the first and last part of the article wasn't included. In the interest in completeness, the first part reads:

    It is true that studies have shown so-called Ester-CŪ will enter cells faster and therefore less of it is required to ward off scurvy in guinea pigs. However, we are wary of any form of vitamin C that does not match what animals make "naturally" in their livers or kidneys. We agree with Linus Pauling that the true and best form of vitamin C is L-ascorbic Acid (C6H8O6).

    Patrick Holford, formerly of the British Institute of Optimum Nutrition (ION) tells us how animals make vitamin C, ascorbic acid:

    "Vitamin C is not a necessary component of diet, at least for all mammals with the exception of guinea pigs, fruit eating bats, the red vented bulbul bird and higher-order primates - which includes us. All other species make their vitamin C by converting glucuronic acid derived from glucose into ascorbic acid (C6H8O6). At least three enzymes are required to make this conversion. One of these liver enzymes, L-gulonolactone oxidase, or part of the enzyme system, is missing in primates. Irwin Stone proposed, in 1965, that a negative mutation may have occurred in these species so as to lose the ability to produce vitamin C. In primates this is thought to have occurred in the region of 25 million years ago. "

    The last part of the article reads:

    That is to say there might not be serious conditions where Ester-C is indicated. We have seen an impressive argument for Ester-C in an anti-cancer patent based on the work of former Pauling associate R. Jariwalla. However, since Ester-C also seems to trap vitamin C, and perhaps other toxins in cells, using Ester-C with Chemotherapy is problematic.

    Truth is truth. Vitamin C is vitamin C.
    Some respected authorities are now claiming that L-ascorbic acid is not vitamin C! (However, if this were true, Linus Pauling was wrong, and 80,000 research studies are fatally flawed.) We are unaware that Pauling's HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER (1986) treastise on vitamin C contained any errors what so ever!

    I can see that the Vitamin C Foundation has reservations about Ester-C and accordingly does not recommend using it.
    However, I don't see that the article is condemning the use of buffered Vitamin C, although Cathcart appears to prefer ascorbic acid for treating illness.
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