A Rebound XT/Blue Rhino stack
- 05-26-2005, 04:36 PM
A Rebound XT/Blue Rhino stack
I suppose it's OK to report my experiences here with a Rebound XT and Blue Rhino stack. I have a similar thread going in the Old Farts forum at BB.com but since most of you "youngsters" wouldn't ever see that and I owe some feedback here for all the good advice I've gotten, I'll give it a run here as well. At 63, I have very low Test 196,6.2, Preg 37, DHEA 158 and IGF 169. I have done cycles in the past with PHs such as 1AD, M4OHN and Superdrol and had very good results with each. My goal here is to try out a legal, "natural" stack that can increase my own test. I am not a BBer per se being much more interested in Powerlifting (No, I don't know why, its just flat out fun!) so my big interest is (1)in getting stronger (2) getting bigger and then (3) leaning out a little. My bodyweight at the start last Tuesday May 17th (after a bout with the flu and cutting out my Swole) was down to 204.
My thinking was that with the Rebound XT showing good results using its Estrogen reduction approach and with the Blue Rhino showing good strength results upping test through its Trib/Avena Sativa/LongJack/ combo,the first would set up a chance of greater success for the second. My plan is to take 2 RXTs at night with some fats (I'm using natty peanut butter) and 2 BRs 45 mins before my morning workout. I am on a 4 day/week split but take my supps daily. I already take a rather complete set of general supps for energy, prostate, blood pressure, liver, kidneys etc. Now to the actual trial:
During the first week doing Chest (Tues), Back/Shoulders(Wed), Legs (Fri) and Arms (Sat) I noticed an increase in energy and managed some increases in weight but mostly in number of reps for all major exercises. This was amazing because I had dropped my Creatine (Swole) and EC stack to see if an XT/BR combo could replace them. Did it ever! I was pleased to note that I didn't have any increased acne either.
Now in my second week things are starting to take off! I am getting Superdrol like results so far. I don't know how long it can continue but it's fun at the moment. On Monday (chest) I upped my weights on the bodymasters Seated Bench Press (I have limited range of motion with my left shoulder while still recovering from an RC injury) to 5 X 10 @ 290, a 10 lb increase. After doing some painful inclines I then hopped in the rack and set up to do some barbell extensions (partials). Here I also upped it 10 lbs to 1 X 4 @ 300 for some nice lock and holds. I was happily surp[rised with these since I have to set up with the bar high up my chest and my elbows out because of my shoulder. Yesterday, on back/shoulder day (after warm-ups of course) I upped my Lat Pulldowns 10 to 2 X 6 @ 240; Seated Rowing up 10 to 1 X 6 @ 240; my T Bar Rows up 40 to 5 plates for 2 X 6 @ 225; my Nautilus Shoulder Presses up 20 to 2 X 6 @ 240 and still had the energy to do lots of supplementary sets of front/side raises supersets and heavy shrugs etc. I simply could not believe the strength I felt. I don't know whether to christen this stack as the XTBlue or the ReboundRhino but it is running wild for now and I love it!
I am undecided whether to push this 4 or 6 weeks so I will take a wait and see approach. This could just be a dynamite combo for us Old Farts!!
- 05-26-2005, 05:13 PM
Push it, see how it goes. Also check out the article I just posted not too long ago int he News forum about Male Hormone Modulation Protocols. You might be interested in it and its specific focus is on the health risks of low test/high estrogen in older men, and ways to bring test lvels up and stop the formation of estrogen.
05-26-2005, 05:48 PM
Thanks for the heads up CDB. Right off the bat when I started your article I read:" Under basal conditions estrone as well as estradiol plasma concentrations increase significantly with age because of increased conversion from androgens. 4. Parallel to estrogen plasma values an increased concentration of the sexual hormone binding globulin (SHBG) is found, resulting in a steep decrease of the free (= active) testosterone fraction. 5. Decreased testosterone, which is more strongly bound to SHBG and increased estrone and estradiol plasma values result in an androgen/estrogen imbalance in old men."Originally Posted by CDB
Combatting this is in fact the goal of my combo.
From Rebound XT: "Rebound XT binds irreversibly to the site of the aromatase enzyme rendering it inactive. It is then unable to produce estrogen. By reducing estrogen production, the amount of estrogen circulating in the body is reduced and the amount of testosterone is increased indirectly."
From Blue Rhino:"SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) keeps your body’s testosterone locked up for potential use at a later time, but most men do not release enough of this bound testosterone naturally to make great gains. That is why we designed Blue Rhino™ to help your body produce more total testosterone while simultaneously helping to unbind your existing testosterone by limiting SHBG in your system." This is supposedly the influence of the Avena Sativa and the LongJack.
I am no whiz at Chem or Bio but to me these two different approaches seemed to be complementary and worth a serious trial together. With all apologies to the bright guys who brought each of them to market, they seemed to cry out for a dual trial. The logs and comments of individual testers on several boards that I've found were highly positive on each. Given my age and test levels, I felt that if anybody would respond favorably to such a trial it might be me. If I/it fails, it certainly won't be for lack of effort on my part. So far I am simply astounded at the way this is taking off!
05-26-2005, 06:12 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be great. As for long term use, I've heard low doses of 6oxo can lead to a rise in testosterone with no concurrent increase in estrogen. I have no idea what the dose scheme would look like, I've just heard the claim here and elsewhere. Maybe Pat Arnold has something on his website about it.
06-11-2005, 05:59 PM
Bump........How's this stack working for you dutchman? Any updates?
~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!
06-12-2005, 02:27 PM
prld2gr8ns, since no-one had shown any interest in my Rebound XT/Blue Rhino stack I just let the log idea die. Using products from two different mfgrs probably discouraged both Designer Supplements and Controlled Labs from commenting as well. As it happens, yesterday was the end of what I am cutting off a few days short of a 4 week cycle. I was very pleased with the results. The only negative was during weeks 2 and 3, I had some increase in acne, but even that subsided this week. That was the second way of confirming I was experiencing a real rise in my testosterone . I feel and look a tad leaner despite adding a lb a week. I honestly believe I gained that or more in muscle each week. In my lifts, I went up almost every time in weight by 5/10 lbs or reps and sets at max. This was true of everything from Squats and BP to DIPs and T Bar Rows. I decided that I will use it again and again as part of my plan for this year. Today I will begin a SD cycle for 4 weeks, followed by 4 weeks PCT and then I will use this same Rebound XT/Blue Rhino stack as my non-hormonal cycle for another 4 weeks. Its safe, legal and it works!
06-13-2005, 09:09 AM
Oh, i was interestedOriginally Posted by Dutchman
And i think other bros here are too (hi BV!)
Anyway, I think that ActivaTe will be more powerful.
Are you getting a new bloodtest done? Watch the cholesterol with SD, bro...
06-13-2005, 07:56 PM
You may be correct on the Activate Syr but I must admit the secondary effects from the Blue Rhino on libido were not bad at all. Nothing like taking Trib, Avena Sativa, LongJack andOriginally Posted by Syr
Yohimbe when you are an old guy with low test
I am aware of the concerns about the lipid changes with SD. I am pretty confident in what I use to combat it, even though I never see it mentioned around here. That is Beta Glucan. Some places/people call it the best natural cholesterol fighter there is. To begin with I eat a huge bowl of Oatmeal or Oatmeal pancakes almost every morning. But the Beta Glucan which is the active part in oats is a great support. I take at least 400mgs daily on and off cycle.
06-13-2005, 08:11 PM
Yet another cholesterol supp. to add to the arsenal for an SD cycle. Thanks for the tip, I take it that this stuff can be bought at a natural foods store right? Any specific brand that you use, or would suggest to others interested?
By the way, to second syr's comment, did you or are you going to have another blood test? It would be great to have some lab results showing that this stack did indeed work, not to say that your word isn't good enough, it's just that blood work is where it's at to truly prove something is effective.
~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!
06-13-2005, 11:21 PM
When I had done some research a few years ago to find natural aids to reducing any cholesterol, I found two things repeatedly mentioned Beta GLucan and Beta Sitosterol (which I already used to help my prostate) but I have been surprised here to find that no-one else relies on the two of them. Nowadays I eat tons of Oatmeal, take a couple Beta Glucans daily, cap and take 2 Saw Palmettos (which contain Beta Sitosterol) daily and add 2 more Beta Sitosterol caps daily on top of this. Funny That no-one ever mentions any of these options with all the discussion about lipids. Other supps that I take which are useful against Cholesterol include Fenugreek, Green Tea, Garlic and Flax Seed (we grind it up and use it in everything). I always take a lot of the last three and during PCT a lot of Fenugreek. FWIW.Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns
For my Beta Glucan and Beta Sitosterol I use an Old Fart's supplier, "Young Again Nutrients". They usually have decent prices when I buy in quantity and their quality seems to be good. It would be nice if someone here could offer this same range of supplements.
I tried to set up my annual physical with this last non-hormonal cycle so I could get my test tested but it didn[t work out. I can't afford to pay for such tests out of pocket. Sorry.
06-13-2005, 11:48 PM
06-14-2005, 08:40 PM
Completely understandable Dutchman, if anyone understands pocket expenses it's me. Thanks for the updates and product info, I'm going to look into them for future references.Originally Posted by Dutchman
~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!
06-18-2005, 08:39 AM
Hey, Dutchman, I was thinking of trying this same stack. Did you stay on 2 pills of rebound xt and two of blue rhino throughout or did you increase? Also when did you start to notice the weight increase in the weight room?Originally Posted by Dutchman
06-18-2005, 11:57 AM
Slydeflex, I used two pills of each for three weeks. In the fourth week I upped the Rhino to three but stayed at two with the Rebound. I went up in reps the first week and in weight the next three.Originally Posted by slydeflex
06-18-2005, 12:25 PM
06-18-2005, 04:26 PM
Now Foods makes a product called Beta 1-3 Glucan, is this the same stuff? As far as listings for it go it's only supposed to help the immune system, at least as far as I can see. Considering my family's history of heart disease, I'm always interested in cholesterol support supplements.Originally Posted by Dutchman
06-18-2005, 04:38 PM
06-18-2005, 04:56 PM
06-18-2005, 05:06 PM
I don't recall any of the Blue Rhino ingredients being able to raise testosterone in people with already normal levels. Please the Rebound XT you'd want to avoid for a few years. You should really avoid using anything that would cause any kind of hormonal imbalance until your mid twenties at least.Originally Posted by Moyer
06-18-2005, 08:02 PM
Thanks, Dutchman, I am looking forward to try this stack as I am 43yr and do not want to use any prohormones at this time.Originally Posted by Dutchman
06-26-2005, 09:32 AM
one last question, Dutchman, how did you take the Blue Rhino? did you take it on an empty stomach or with a preworkout shake?Originally Posted by Dutchman
06-26-2005, 11:34 AM
Yeah, he's right. Maybe the guy can try a low dose of ActivaTe. I would ask to a DS rep before.Originally Posted by CDB
06-28-2005, 02:34 PM
Ive brought down my total cholesterol level from 205 to under 160, by using nothign other than Beta-Sitosterol and something called Guggul Lipids. Dont know which was more effective, but on me, I think they both worked really well.. Cholesterol is no longer a concern, while for a year, it was my biggest! I so much prefer fighting these things with over the counter stuff, where its effective, and avoiding the doctor. Probably not the brightest viewpoint, but ive always been that way.. Luckily im real healthyOriginally Posted by Dutchman
06-28-2005, 03:01 PM
ActivaTe can cause a hormonal imbalance. More free test means more estrogen absent an AI, which means premature closure of the growth plates. It's also hypothesized that ActivaTe can lower overall test while raising free test, which once again absent an AI isn't good. Anyone to young to use steroids is also too young to use anything that can or supposedly does cause a hormonal imbalance, no matter how slight. It's better to play it safe. When young stick to creatine and other amino acids, and learning to eat right. Do that and you'll get even more a return from future roid use should you decide to go that way.Originally Posted by Syr
06-28-2005, 05:03 PM
I agree with your statement, but at the same time, wouldn't it be better for someone to try a product like this before jumping to PHs or AAS?Originally Posted by CDB
Also, please remember, I'm not talking about a 17 or 18yr old here. I'm 21 (actually 22 next month). I haven't grown in height for at least 3 or 4 years. I've come very close to trying PHs a couple times, but never quite made the jump.
06-29-2005, 02:07 PM
It's not really better or worse as the same negative side effects are a possibility. It may even be the case that a properly run steroid cycle would be less harmful than an improperly run cycle of something milder. Also keep in mind that length isn't the only type of bone growth. Basically mid twenties is when you can be almost certain that your body is in a state of homeostasis, and that there are no more key hormonal triggers that need to go off. At that point you should mentally and physically balanced enough to do what you choose to do. Until then it's best to lay off.Originally Posted by Moyer
I wouldn't worry about availability. Sources are never too hard to find for most people, and the companies will always be coming out with something new that squeeks through the legal loopholes.
06-29-2005, 03:26 PM
Fair enough. It's not like I'm anywhere near my natural genetic peak.
Just keeping my eye out for the next big thing. Still seems like, other than creatine, there's not much I can count on.
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