Best non-nitric oxide related ways to increase pumps?

[boatnerj]

Hey guys,

So through extensive trial and error, and a certain physical condition allowing me to get a VERY concrete idea of how my GI motility is affected by various factors, I have figured that all supps that affect NO in some way or another greatly decrease my GI motility and lead to bloating/fullness as the day goes on making it much harder to get in enough food. So for myself they just aren't worth it.

What are my alternatives? Is it basically supplements that will increase cell volumization? Things like creatine, taurine, hydromax, carbohydrates, sodium, etc? If there are any others people can think of please let me know!

 

[Studdscruggs]

Nothing I mean absolutely nothing beats the pumps when working out while fasting. Ever little blood cell goes straight to the muscle. Carbs and sodium seems to reduce that for me and I would also see it bloating you as well.

 

[sparks2012]

I cant attest to the fasting idea that the above guy mentioned, but I was also in a decent sized deficit when I was fasting so that negated a lot of the pumps for me. I noticed that getting back on a surplus and having a decent amount of carbs in me throughout the day before training helped me drastically, I'm getting really full pumps now so diet has the biggest impact for me. I've been off creatine for a while now, over 6 months so I'd have to reevaluate how that works for me pump-wise. A lot of this is anecdotal stuff you'll find out on your own, as you probably already know, so one thing won't necessarily be better than the other for everyone.

 

[ironjunkie91]

I use beta alanine with baking soda concoction.. it helps me with lactic acid build up. Pumps are amazing. I go for very high volume and acid will shut that down fast lol also I take it fasting. It works for me.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Nothing I mean absolutely nothing beats the pumps when working out while fasting. Ever little blood cell goes straight to the muscle. Carbs and sodium seems to reduce that for me and I would also see it bloating you as well.

Lol wut?

 

[Studdscruggs]

Lol wut?

I swear by it lmao. Easily the best pumps and especially more with some added hormones aha!

 

[210LBS]

Personally, I have no idea what these guys are talking about with getting pumps from fastening. Outside of NO the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is Ara. Maybe some people don't feel the same but the pumps I got from it were borderline unbearable.

 

[Allenfitz]

Lol

 

[money0351]

Increasing TUT and intra-set flexing

 

[money0351]

I'm dead serious about the flexing too. You'll probably get a few looks but a hard 30-60 seconds of intense isometric contractions in between sets works wonders

 

[BentBarbell]

Carbs carbs carbs

 

[B5150]

Hey guys,

So through extensive trial and error, and a certain physical condition allowing me to get a VERY concrete idea of how my GI motility is affected by various factors, I have figured that all supps that affect NO in some way or another greatly decrease my GI motility and lead to bloating/fullness as the day goes on making it much harder to get in enough food. So for myself they just aren't worth it.

tell me more about the products (actives) you have used. I regularly use Citrulline malate/l-citrulline, Agmatine and potassium nitrate. You're the first person to have me consider a connection between my inability to eat enough post workout and through the day to meet my surplus goals due to bloating stomach distention and delayed gastric emptying. Thanks!

 

[boatnerj]

Those two are some of the ones that affect me. Nitric oxide is the main inhibitory neurotransmitter in the GI tract. Nitrix oxide is the main factor released by endotoxemia that leads to ileus. Loads of studies have also shown how nitric oxide synthesis inhibitors given during surgery leads to immediate relief from ileus and GI stasis post operatively. NOS inhibitors are currently being looked into for treating various GI hypo-motility disorders.

Caveat; most people don't really notice any negative GI effects like I have from these supplements, but some people with more sensitive GI systems may react more-so to them. Best advice I can give you is stop using them for a few weeks and see what happens with your appetite and digestion.

 

[banjobounce]

sodium and vegetable glycerin, imo.

 

[boatnerj]

sodium and vegetable glycerin, imo.

Just more economical than hydromax?

 

[R1balla]

Others have great advice. Carbs do wonders for pumps. One of the best supplements to use for pumps is ArA.

I would also look into PowerMax XT. I do not see any bloat off of it. Maybe other users can chyme in and share experiences with it. We recently had a few people log it so if you are interested, you can search for the recent logs.

Some of the ingredients you mentioned in your original post are in PowerMax XT. The reason it stands out to me is it contains Amentoflavone which is a PDE inhibitor, a mechanism of vasodilatation. With the additions of sodium and potassium phosphate, glycerol powder and L-Taurine, the pumps are solid. I'm using PowerMax XT, VasoMax, ArA right now for my pre workout regime along with aminos intra workout and the pumps are intense.

 

[hsk]

Hey guys,

So through extensive trial and error, and a certain physical condition allowing me to get a VERY concrete idea of how my GI motility is affected by various factors, I have figured that all supps that affect NO in some way or another greatly decrease my GI motility and lead to bloating/fullness as the day goes on making it much harder to get in enough food. So for myself they just aren't worth it.

What are my alternatives? Is it basically supplements that will increase cell volumization? Things like creatine, taurine, hydromax, carbohydrates, sodium, etc? If there are any others people can think of please let me know!

Does this issue extend to PDE inhibitors (ie caffeine, forskolin, icariin) as well or mainly the usual pump products such as Agmatine, L-Citrulline, Citrulline Malate, Nitrates?

As far as non NO related pumps, perhaps GDAs and supplements that will help increase glycogen storage in muscle tissue might help.

 

[banjobounce]

Just more economical than hydromax?

I feel like I get a better pump with glycerin, but it does have more calories than sugar (slightly). I don't like carb loading before training, so I rarely use it pre, but when I do, it is golden. Hydromax is what I normally end up dosing because it is included in formulas such as plasmajet, which is awesome btw.

Glycerin also helps to keep me from having to take a whiz 7x of a night when I dose it pre-bed as well. That's a pretty swell tip I picked up from Rob Regish on SHR.

 

[mcc23]

Nothing I mean absolutely nothing beats the pumps when working out while fasting. Ever little blood cell goes straight to the muscle. Carbs and sodium seems to reduce that for me and I would also see it bloating you as well.

What?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

What?

Perhaps it is a different definition of "fasted?" Maybe he means that if he eats too soon before working out, he feels bloated and feels that some blood flow (and therefore, pump) is wasted on digestion? Or maybe I'm completely wrong in trying to think of what he was thinking.

 

[dreamcrusher]

Try eating gummy bears or something like it pre-workout. Aim for 30-50g of simple sugars like that and see if that helps. It does for me.

 

[CT21]

Since this is the "SUPPLEMENT" section and not the training or nutrition section...im going to recommend Sodium, Glycerin (manly Hydromax) at at least 3g and Taurine @ 3g for NON nitrix oxide involved pump supplements. Maybe even Creatine as long as your not co-ingesting caffiene or other stims pre workout...

 

[Jiigzz]

Perhaps it is a different definition of "fasted?" Maybe he means that if he eats too soon before working out, he feels bloated and feels that some blood flow (and therefore, pump) is wasted on digestion? Or maybe I'm completely wrong in trying to think of what he was thinking.

I think he is saying thay when fasted, whatever glycogen you have is shuttled to the muscles, and because you aren't digesting any from food sources, you also dont get bloated.

 

[shockrock3]

Just more economical than hydromax?

Hydromax is dirt cheap to buy in bulk

 

[hardknock]

I use beta alanine with baking soda concoction.. it helps me with lactic acid build up. Pumps are amazing. I go for very high volume and acid will shut that down fast lol also I take it fasting. It works for me.

Strangely alanine with soda water pumps me up like im allergic to it...I swell up really tight in shoulders, arms, chest. It doesnt work as well during legs no matter the volume.

 

[boatnerj]

Since this is the "SUPPLEMENT" section and not the training or nutrition section...im going to recommend Sodium, Glycerin (manly Hydromax) at at least 3g and Taurine @ 3g for NON nitrix oxide involved pump supplements. Maybe even Creatine as long as your not co-ingesting caffiene or other stims pre workout...

Why no caffeine? Acts as a vasoconstrictor? Could always go with theobromine, which actually vasodilates.

 

[boatnerj]

Others have great advice. Carbs do wonders for pumps. One of the best supplements to use for pumps is ArA.

I would also look into PowerMax XT. I do not see any bloat off of it. Maybe other users can chyme in and share experiences with it. We recently had a few people log it so if you are interested, you can search for the recent logs.



Some of the ingredients you mentioned in your original post are in PowerMax XT. The reason it stands out to me is it contains Amentoflavone which is a PDE inhibitor, a mechanism of vasodilatation. With the additions of sodium and potassium phosphate, glycerol powder and L-Taurine, the pumps are solid. I'm using PowerMax XT, VasoMax, ArA right now for my pre workout regime along with aminos intra workout and the pumps are intense.

Do you guys send out or sell sample packs? Sucks to buy things then have them screm up my stomach and have to either return them, or be stuck with them.

 

[R1balla]

Do you guys send out or sell sample packs? Sucks to buy things then have them screm up my stomach and have to either return them, or be stuck with them.

I can check for you to see if we have any samples

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I don't know about y'all, but my Arteries and Veins look like a Plumber's Trade Show after 1 Cup of Oats in Milk, and 2 Carmel Rice Cakes.

Also, OP - You try a can of Beets? (Freshlike Select Non-Pickeled) have the best Macros - 88kcals/Can.

 

[CT21]

Why no caffeine? Acts as a vasoconstrictor? Could always go with theobromine, which actually vasodilates.

I love thebromine but OP is SPECIFICALLY looking for a supplement to augement his pump while training that doesnt stimulate Nitrix oxide...

 

[hardknock]

Why no caffeine? Acts as a vasoconstrictor? Could always go with theobromine, which actually vasodilates.

Perhaps its the issue people have with it? I myself can only deal with Caffeine twice oe so per week. It screws my stomach uo something awful to the point of 1hour bathroom breaks.

 

[VaughnTrue]

everyone scared of caffeine being a "vasoconstrictor"...it isn't.

Effects of acute administration of caffeine on vascular function.
Umemura T1, Ueda K, Nishioka K, Hidaka T, Takemoto H, Nakamura S, Jitsuiki D, Soga J, Goto C, Chayama K, Yoshizumi M, Higashi Y.
Author information
Abstract
Caffeine is the most widely used pharmacologic substance in the world. It is found in common nonessential grocery items (e.g., coffee, tea, cocoa, and chocolate). The effects of caffeine on cardiovascular diseases, including hypertension, remain controversial, and there is little information on its direct effect on vascular function. The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of caffeine on endothelial function in humans. This study was a double-blind, randomized placebo and active drug study. Forearm blood flow (FBF) responses to acetylcholine (ACh), an endothelium-dependent vasodilator, and to sodium nitroprusside, an endothelium-independent vasodilator, were evaluated in healthy young men before and after the oral administration of caffeine 300 mg (n = 10) or placebo (n = 10). FBF was measured by using a strain-gauge plethysmograph. Caffeine significantly increased systolic and diastolic blood pressures by 6.0 +/- 6.0 and 2.6 +/- 3.1 mm Hg (p <0.05), respectively, but did not alter heart rate or baseline FBF. Caffeine augmented the FBF responses to ACh from 21.2 +/- 7.1 to 26.6 +/- 8.1 ml/min/100 ml tissue (p <0.05), whereas sodium nitroprusside-stimulated vasodilation was not altered by caffeine administration. The intra-arterial infusion of N(G)-monomethyl-L-arginine, a nitric oxide synthase inhibitor, abolished the caffeine-induced augmentation of FBF response to ACh. In the placebo group, the ACh- and sodium nitroprusside-stimulated vasodilation was similar before and after the follow-up period. In conclusion, these findings suggest that the acute administration of caffeine augments endothelium-dependent vasodilation in healthy young men through an increase in nitric oxide production.

 

[funcouser]

Hey guys,

So through extensive trial and error, and a certain physical condition allowing me to get a VERY concrete idea of how my GI motility is affected by various factors, I have figured that all supps that affect NO in some way or another greatly decrease my GI motility and lead to bloating/fullness as the day goes on making it much harder to get in enough food. So for myself they just aren't worth it.

What are my alternatives? Is it basically supplements that will increase cell volumization? Things like creatine, taurine, hydromax, carbohydrates, sodium, etc? If there are any others people can think of please let me know!

Hey man - GI issues suck! You don't have some of the NO supps listed that I've used, so they might be worth a try. Just go to Nutrabio and click on NO in the product dropdown list. "AEE" has an awful taste so I get that in pill form. Either that or I mix it with Apple cider. I work for a hospital and our wellness department says they are a reputable company. I've personally been buying from them since 2011. Good luck!

 

[B5150]

I don't know about y'all, but my Arteries and Veins look like a Plumber's Trade Show after 1 Cup of Oats in Milk, and 2 Carmel Rice Cakes.

Also, OP - You try a can of Beets? (Freshlike Select Non-Pickeled) have the best Macros - 88kcals/Can.

Beats are a food source for natural occurring nitrates -> Nitic oxide. I know you know this. Not sure if OP is opposed to all forms of NO or not.

 

[lukinosnake]

Pre-wo giant smoothy with beets, blueberry, cherries.

 

[booneman77]

Xgels/ArA as mentioned are great for this. Pair that with something like an epicatechin product (epi-max/epicurus) or even something like soy lecithin and you should see some drastic improvements.

 

[Zariph]

well not sure if its a pump but PA makes you look fuller and kinda pumped tbh

 

[hardknock]

everyone scared of caffeine being a "vasoconstrictor"...it isn't.

Im scared of caffeine due to diarrhea, pure facts.

 

[Ricky10]

tell me more about the products (actives) you have used. I regularly use Citrulline malate/l-citrulline, Agmatine and potassium nitrate. You're the first person to have me consider a connection between my inability to eat enough post workout and through the day to meet my surplus goals due to bloating stomach distention and delayed gastric emptying. Thanks!

Yes; right there with ya! Seems obvious now that he said it though. However; I am currently having issues with too much gastric emptying (if you know what I mean) and I am trying to determine what it is as I have been taking a few newish supplements.

 

[boatnerj]

I love thebromine but OP is SPECIFICALLY looking for a supplement to augement his pump while training that doesnt stimulate Nitrix oxide...

I am the OP. Caffeine and theobromine have never really had the same negative affects on me I refereed to, and actually stimulate motility for myself. I do use very low doses though, never more than 100-150 mg.

 

[CT21]

I am the OP. Caffeine and theobromine have never really had the same negative affects on me I refereed to, and actually stimulate motility for myself. I do use very low doses though, never more than 100-150 mg.

Lmao, oops when im at work i dont always have time to look whose responding...

Anyways you could definately use Caffiene and Thebromine, two of my staples pre workout as well, but regarding my original post i was saying that Creatine also a great cell volumizer aka pump product along with Glycerin and taurine, but i dont beleive in Co-ingesting creatine and caffiene or other stims...so if ypur going to do 1 dont do the other at the same time

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Lmao, oops when im at work i dont always have time to look whose responding...

Anyways you could definately use Caffiene and Thebromine, two of my staples pre workout as well, but regarding my original post i was saying that Creatine also a great cell volumizer aka pump product along with Glycerin and taurine, but i dont beleive in Co-ingesting creatine and caffiene or other stims...so if ypur going to do 1 dont do the other at the same time

Why don't you believe in taking creatine and caffeine/stims at the same time? I've never noticed any difference, and, personally, find it to be a case of splitting hairs that can often lead to paralysis by analysis, where you spend so much time trying to line everything up to be so perfect that it becomes a major chore. In my personal experience, when this happens, I end up "forgetting," or just being to lazy, to actually take everything at the "ideal" time, and would have been better off just doing what's more convenient, within reason of course.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Beats are a food source for natural occurring nitrates -> Nitic oxide. I know you know this. Not sure if OP is opposed to all forms of NO or not.

Yeah, roger that. I was going more along the lines of I doubted an Arugula Salad would cause him problems (highest in Nitrates)

An Arugula and Beet Salad with some Skinny Girl Rasberry Vinagrette PrWO! Yes!

 

[CT21]

Why don't you believe in taking creatine and caffeine/stims at the same time? I've never noticed any difference, and, personally, find it to be a case of splitting hairs that can often lead to paralysis by analysis, where you spend so much time trying to line everything up to be so perfect that it becomes a major chore. In my personal experience, when this happens, I end up "forgetting," or just being to lazy, to actually take everything at the "ideal" time, and would have been better off just doing what's more convenient, within reason of course.

I dont see it a major chore to take stimulants in the morning or pre workout and creatine post workout or before bed...its pretty simple and a concept that doenst require much attention to detail...

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I dont see it a major chore to take stimulants in the morning or pre workout and creatine post workout or before bed...its pretty simple and a concept that doenst require much attention to detail...

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I think it causes more potential issues than it solves. Where people can run into problems is if, for example, they want to use a pre-workout that contains creatine and caffeine; according to your advice, they shouldn't. Also, there are a lot of "staple" supplements that contain, among other ingredients, creatine, and often have uses taken pre-workout (things like glycerol, taurine, etc); if your advice is followed, it sets up potential conflicts where lots of supplements are either off the table, or timing can be an unnecessary hassle. Again, if it works for you, that's awesome, and stick with it, but I'm just presenting an alternative viewpoint. No hard feelings man.

 

[210LBS]

What is the obsession with this thing about chasing the pump? Why do people care? If you really want a better pump just do more reps.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

What is the obsession with this thing about chasing the pump? Why do people care? If you really want a better pump just do more reps.

Ignoring that a lot of ingredients that provide a pump also improve endurance (citrulline, nitrates, etc), I suppose there can be a psychological effect of having a good pump, maybe you feel better or more confident in the gym, which may make you want to push a little harder or do an extra set or two, or maybe you just like that it makes you look a bit better and bigger when you have it. Then there's always what Arnold said about the pump, haha.

 

[210LBS]

Ignoring that a lot of ingredients that provide a pump also improve endurance (citrulline, nitrates, etc), I suppose there can be a psychological effect of having a good pump, maybe you feel better or more confident in the gym, which may make you want to push a little harder or do an extra set or two, or maybe you just like that it makes you look a bit better and bigger when you have it. Then there's always what Arnold said about the pump, haha.

Haha yeah I remember how much Arnold loved the pump - far more than anyone else I've ever known. I guess to each their own. I don't personally like an intense "pump" unless I'm doing high intensity, which is what I do more for cutting. It probaboy is fine for a fulk body routine but I'm doing a 3 day split now of high volume and I find an intense pump gets in the way.

 

[R1balla]

What is the obsession with this thing about chasing the pump? Why do people care? If you really want a better pump just do more reps.

I just like how it feels at the time. Doing drop sets does the trick for me as well

 

[lukinosnake]

Try to superset and dropset rope push down and rope curl. The pump is just pure ignorance ahahahaha