What laxagenin and epicatechin product to run.

[dannykray]

Looking to run a bulking cycle and know that I want to run laxagenin and epicatechin along with a test booster( probably alpha max XT). I was looking at strength unleashed, and epic by Olympus labs but I've never been a fan of proprietary blends. The proprietary blend in epic is 500mg a serving with epicatechin being the last on the list so there is no way to know if your getting enough. There is a company called anabolic iron and they list all the ingredient amounts. I was wondering if anyone has tried there epicatechin and laxagenin? Is it a reputable company? Can't really find any info on these guys. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Lynks8]

Looking to run a bulking cycle and know that I want to run laxagenin and epicatechin along with a test booster( probably alpha max XT). I was looking at strength unleashed, and epic by Olympus labs but I've never been a fan of proprietary blends. The proprietary blend in epic is 500mg a serving with epicatechin being the last on the list so there is no way to know if your getting enough. There is a company called anabolic iron and they list all the ingredient amounts. I was wondering if anyone has tried there epicatechin and laxagenin? Is it a reputable company? Can't really find any info on these guys. Any help is appreciated.

I understand your thinking, but allow me to clarify a few things. There's a reason Ep1c Unleashed and Str3ngth Unleashed are two of the most popular Epicatechin and Laxogenin products on this forum, respectively.

Olympus Labs is known for using big, studied doses of ingredients. OL never cheaps out in this regard. You can verify this by looking at virtually every other product they make. It's very rare for them to have a proprietary blend, but in this case the research and development that went into making an epicatetchin product that would really work was substantial, so they're protecting that investment. I don't like prop blends either, but in this case it makes some sense since so few have been able to make an (-)-Epi product that works.

The key to making (-)-Epi work is absorption. That's why you see EGCG and PhytoFuse in the ingredients. Epicatechin's bioavailability and uptake by the body is increased when administered with gallate catechins, like EGCG. OL took it a step further with PhytoFuse: By complexing the Epicatechin in Green Tea Extract with Phosphatidylcholine, OL has created a new compound. The interfacial tension between this compound and gastrointestinal fluid is decreased, thereby improving permeation across intestinal epithelial cells, enhancing bioavailability. This is the same Phytosome technology being used by major pharmaceutical companies to increase the absorption of various natural ingredients.

I'm fairly certain that the absorption enhancing ingredients are far more expensive than the (-)-Epi itself, so you can rest assured that more than enough (-)-Epi is included in the formula to exert its desired effects. In other words, it would have been cheaper for OL to produce a basic epicatechin product with a large dose (in fact, that's essentially what Ep1c v1 was)...but that wouldn't have been nearly as effective as Ep1c Unleashed.

Str3ngth Unleashed/Dermastrength uses the same Phytofuse technology.

As for the other product you mentioned, I'd be willing to bet it actually has less (-)-Epi than Ep1c Unleashed, and it doesn't have PhytoFuse, so it won't be absorbed nearly as well.

I'll let others chime in on their experiences with Ep1c Unleashed. Suffice it to say, the feedback has been stellar.

 

[vujade]

Follidrone 2.0 would get my vote. Its made by Black Lion Research the company that introduced
epicatechin to the bodybuilding / supplement industry.

Its ia a proprietary blend, but believe me, its got the correct amount of epi in it, but a few other goodies
including ecklonia cava which is even more anabolic then epi.

https://www.tgbsupplements.com/product/black-lion-research-follidrone-2-0-combo-pack-pre-sale/


For laxogenin, I like Strength Unleashed by Olympus Labs

https://www.tgbsupplements.com/product/olympus-labs-str3ngth-unleashed/

 

[Lynks8]

Black Lion Research the company that introduced
epicatechin to the bodybuilding / supplement industry.

I believe that honor belongs to Heracles by Biotivia. Coincidentally, it was formulated by our very own xtyler .

 

[dannykray]

Okay I just want to be sure that the dosage is enough but if the results are good you can't argue with that. Just curious if anyone had tried anabolic iron and if it was any good. Is there a substantial difference in results between the TD and the caps. If I go with Olympus labs I was thinking of getting dermastrength in TD and epic in caps. Or both in TD and vise versa. What has been the current feedback as far as results go?

 

[vujade]

I believe that honor belongs to Heracles by Biotivia. Coincidentally, it was formulated by our very own xtyler .

I believe you might be mistaken....but I could be wrong if you can show me something that says otherwise....

There is a post by the Huge on bb.com introducing Heracles on 4/15/14 and saying it would be available in May 2014.
I'd post the link, but not sure if its allowed.

Taken from bb.com

HERACLES
Coming in May 2014.

BLR Follidrone was introduced on March 23 2014 and available for sale on April 1st 2014.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/black-lion-research/246717-new-product-follidrone.html

brundel halfhuman

 

[jgntyce]

For pure epicatechin with no fillers, CEL EPI-PLEX is golden. You know exactly how much epi you are getting. For laxogenin I'd go for Olympus labs Str3ngth unleashed transdermal.

 

[The Express 42]

Folldrone 2.0 and Androcrine by BPS... hands down

 

[ChestBro]

My vote goes to EU And SU by OL because those are The only supplements with EPI and Laxo I have run. Te results was Nice.

Will actual start a run with the EU + SU + X-Gels(ARA) tomorrow.

Have already started the ARA run, amazing results. Veins are popping

Good luck with your choice!

 

[dannykray]

I looked into follidrone 2.0 and that looks pretty good too. For epicatechin it's between follidrone 2 or epic unleashed caps. What do you guys like better? Who has run both. For laxagenin I'm sold on dermastrength unleashed TD.

 

[dannykray]

Androcrine is a good price and looks good too. Wonder how that is compared to dermastrength??The more I look the more indecisive I'm getting ha.

 

[KimChee]

Follidrone 2.0 is really good stuff, I've run both, both are good, but the EC in F2 makes it better IMHO..I like transdermal Laxo str3ngth was awesome..I've taken oral laxo and it wasn't that great, but TD laxo was good stuff..you could also run ARA instead of laxo..

 

[Lynks8]

Okay I just want to be sure that the dosage is enough but if the results are good you can't argue with that. Just curious if anyone had tried anabolic iron and if it was any good.

I would be checking on the same thing if I were you. Prop blends always make me wary. You're just being a smart consumer. That said, I truly am confident that the dose is more than enough and that it has been formulated to be effective. If OL had nothing but prop blends, I'd be concerned, but they use open labels on virtually every other product with studied doses and often, patented ingredients.

Is there a substantial difference in results between the TD and the caps. If I go with Olympus labs I was thinking of getting dermastrength in TD and epic in caps.[/B] Or both in TD and vise versa. What has been the current feedback as far as results go?

I wouldn't say there's a big difference between TD/Caps when it comes to Ep1c Unleashed. Laxogenin, on the other hand, benefits considerably from transdermal application, imho.
Ep1c caps and Dermastrength has been my choice and is probably the most popular way to stack these products. Both are great in TD form if you can manage applying 2 TD's per day, but for convenience I like using them this way.

As for reviews, you can do a search and find a ton. Here are a few I found:

Going to put this here as well with the Transdermal EP1C.

I've used EP1C before and it is good but EP1C Unleashed is an whole different animal!
Starting using this last week and amazing how much my endurance has increased. Even with a tough workout I can push myself further and harder than ever before.
Right now I am dosing EP1C Transdermal one pump each morning and then using 2 caps pre workout only on workout days.
This will definitely stay as one of my base supplements that I use regularly.

I have used Epic Unleashed (transdermal on my off days and capsules on my training days) for over a month now and I am very happy with the product!

First of all there were no side effects which is important for me because I am sensitive to some supplements which means I can get nausea or even allergic reactions from it. No problems with that here. I didn't notice anything special the first few times, but within a week I had more energy in my workouts especially on leg days which I usually struggle with. The weights felt a bit lighter or I just want to keep going with it.. and I don't even feel as sore the next day which is a bonus!

I am convinced it has also helped me trim that bit of stubborn flab around my thighs I have forever been trying to get rid of.

There were a number of days when I forgot to apply the product (or when I was sick) so I felt like I was going back to square one when I resumed it which kind of sucks. Also the transdermal product is a bit too messy in my opinion so I think I'll stick with the capsules from now on. The pump just squirts the fluid everywhere and creates a mess. It also smells really funky to the point where I feel really self conscious after putting it on lol.

Anyway my only advice is to keep the diet in check when taking this product because you will want to eat more often than normal.

And I am going to keep using Epic Unleashed without 'cycling' as many have suggested because its not necessary and the benefits keep on giving!

So standouts this week have been two things, noticeable body composition and recovery. I trained 6 days this week and could have easily done the whole 7 no problems… Other mentioned things, volume and weights continuing to progress. Body composition wise, as I mentioned earlier in the week my waist size has significantly reduced… That is impressive, a natural supplement actually allowing me to increase my work load and causing fat loss and muscle gain simultaneously.

This product gets a 5 from me. Which is rare. I can't really say it needs improvement because it worked so well for me.

I used the TD and oral during my PCT. My crossfit workouts were much improved. Times improved 2-4 on most workouts. When it kicked in, recovery was phenomenal. No pain the next day. Felt like I came off a rest day.

The oral version was sponsored. I have more of the oral version. I want to see the difference without it. But I have a feeling this will be my first real staple. I need to have some crossfit in my workout routines. This feels like a must for endurance.

Thanks again to OL for letting me try this. I highly recommend this product.

 

[Lynks8]

I believe you might be mistaken....but I could be wrong if you can show me something that says otherwise....

Ah. It would appear I was incorrect. I remember TheHuge/xtyler posting about Epicatechin well before 2014, but I didn't realize it took that long for Heracles to come out. My mistake.

 

[Lynks8]

Androcrine is a good price and looks good too. Wonder how that is compared to dermastrength??The more I look the more indecisive I'm getting ha.

Let me throw you yet another curveball. What are your primary goals? You mentioned a bulk, so presumably you're looking for increased size and strength? To be perfectly honest, as much as I like Epi/Laxo, there are other products I would choose for a pure bulk. Namely, Or1gin/ArA/Tr1umph. I like Epicatechin and Laxogenin more for a recomp.

 

[dannykray]

I'm looking to gain lean mass so not a conventional bulking cycle i guess. But yeah as of now I want size and strength more than recomp. I've heard a lot about ara but have never tried it.

 

[LeanEngineer]

A good laxo and epi product is anafuse. It has both of these ingredients in it. Best results would be to pick up two bottles and run it back to back.

 

[Lynks8]

I'm looking to gain lean mass so not a conventional bulking cycle i guess. But yeah as of now I want size and strength more than recomp. I've heard a lot about ara but have never tried it.

Gotcha. So you're primarily looking for a "lean bulk". I would personally run Or1gin, ArA (X-Gels), and PA/Tr1umph on a +250-500kcal surplus, timing most of your carbohydrates around workouts to take advantage of GLUT4 and reduce fat storage. I would run that for 2 months, then 1-2 months of Epicatechin+Laxogenin during a recomp or baby cut (-150kcal) to keep the gains going while leaning out. I think you'd love your results at the end of 3-4 months. Just my thoughts on what I'd do if I were you.

 

[justhere4comm]

I've been running Follidrone 2.0 for a while now and am loving it. I'm on my second bottle and a third is in the wings. No matter what I run moving forward it is in the stack. It's proprietary also, but I believe brundle when he says it delivers the most of any. -(-epi) on the market so I'm not going to deviate from it.

 

[Young Gotti]

right now I'm running myo elite for the first time, then I'm going into Sparta Hercules, and then Sparta pct

Hercules will be my first experience with Laxo that's not BPS Andocrine, hoping for similar results but we'll see

 

[booneman77]

Looking to run a bulking cycle and know that I want to run laxagenin and epicatechin along with a test booster( probably alpha max XT). I was looking at strength unleashed, and epic by Olympus labs but I've never been a fan of proprietary blends. The proprietary blend in epic is 500mg a serving with epicatechin being the last on the list so there is no way to know if your getting enough. There is a company called anabolic iron and they list all the ingredient amounts. I was wondering if anyone has tried there epicatechin and laxagenin? Is it a reputable company? Can't really find any info on these guys. Any help is appreciated.

Check out sparta nutrition. We have both Hercules (lax) and Epicurus (epicat) with absorption enhancers.

For just an epi product, CEL Epi-plex is totally open label as well

 

[dannykray]

Does anyone have any experience with orig1n? It seems like a fairly new product and can't find much feedback on it.

 

[Misfit28]

Does anyone have any experience with orig1n? It seems like a fairly new product and can't find much feedback on it.

It was just released, not sure there's been enough time for feedback yet.

Another vote for CEL Epi-Plex. Open label, affordable price as well.

 

[booneman77]

Does anyone have any experience with orig1n? It seems like a fairly new product and can't find much feedback on it.

pretty much brand new... its also more of a gh/ghrelin product so very different than laxo/epi

 

[dannykray]

So you guys think I would gain better size doing origin, ara and alphamax?

 

[7eman7]

For epicatechin I'd go with follidrone 2.0 since it has other ingredients that decrease Myostatin as well. And for laxogenin you definitely want a transdermal due to its very poor biovailability so I'd go with OL Dermastr3ngth unleashed.

 

[The Express 42]

Origin, X gels, Anabeta Elite, Follidrone 2.0, Androcrine, Alphamax XT. Any combination will give the best results you can expect from a natty

 

[R1balla]

I'm using epidrone with androcrine right now and I really like it. Took a few weeks to notice anything at all but once it hit, my strength gains flew up on compound lifts. After my 8 week cycle I plan to run SlinMax with AlphaMax XT, X gels (ArA), and maybe sustain alpha.

SlinMax is a nutrient repartitioner that also uses Agmatine to generate pumps. That with ArA will be killer. I can't wait.

AlphaMax XT is known to be one of the best all in one test boosters that includes forskolin. Keeps my body fat in check while I clean bulk right now.

X gels - ArA is one of my favorites. I dose it on training days only and it gives me great pumps. Can't wait to use it with SlinMax.

Sustain Alpha - one of my all time favorite products. Gives me a sense of well being and tends to dry me out a little bit which is what I want for a lean bulk so I can keep away some of the fat.

 

[mechka_grizli]

I believe that honor belongs to Heracles by Biotivia. Coincidentally, it was formulated by our very own xtyler .

Side note here: is xtyler, THEHUGE from bb.com?

 

[7eman7]

I'm using epidrone with androcrine right now and I really like it. Took a few weeks to notice anything at all but once it hit, my strength gains flew up on compound lifts. After my 8 week cycle I plan to run SlinMax with AlphaMax XT, X gels (ArA), and maybe sustain alpha.

SlinMax is a nutrient repartitioner that also uses Agmatine to generate pumps. That with ArA will be killer. I can't wait.

AlphaMax XT is known to be one of the best all in one test boosters that includes forskolin. Keeps my body fat in check while I clean bulk right now.

X gels - ArA is one of my favorites. I dose it on training days only and it gives me great pumps. Can't wait to use it with SlinMax.

Sustain Alpha - one of my all time favorite products. Gives me a sense of well being and tends to dry me out a little bit which is what I want for a lean bulk so I can keep away some of the fat.

You will enjoy SlinMax. I'm using right now with dermastr3ngth in my pct and staying lean and full eating more calories than I was on cycle

 

[R1balla]

You will enjoy SlinMax. I'm using right now with dermastr3ngth in my pct and staying lean and full eating more calories than I was on cycle

I've used it twice before and enjoyed it. Excited to run it again.

 

[bigsmall]

Folidrone 2.0 is leaps and bounds ahead of all the other Epicatechin supplements. nutri-verse of TGB have 2 bottles deals as well...

 

[Volvo140G]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-deals/286416-mid-october-savings.html

OL has u set, each at 20% off too

 

[xtyler]

Side note here: is xtyler, THEHUGE from bb.com?

Yessir

Ah. It would appear I was incorrect. I remember TheHuge/xtyler posting about Epicatechin well before 2014, but I didn't realize it took that long for Heracles to come out. My mistake.

You're not mistaken. In the Bioforge (same site) thread I gave some hints on the ingredients about 2 months earlier (late Feb/ealy March).
Who cares now LOL.

 

[Lynks8]

So you guys think I would gain better size doing origin, ara and alphamax?

For bulking, that would be a great stack. Or1gin is new, but the immediate feedback from forum members, and the long-term feedback from testers has been superb. The science behind it is solid, (ghrelin stimulation leading to increased gh/igf-1, enhanced digestion, and increased ribosome biogenesis).

I would try and add Phosphatidic Acid if possible, either through lecithin granules (cheap) or Tr1umph (which will give you all the proven staples you need like creatine/betaine/etc in one product). Not only will PA stimulate your appetite and increase anabolism, but soy lecithin will act as an emulsifier for ArA and enhance its absorption/efficacy.

Again, Or1gin, ArA, PA/Tr1umph (add in Alphamax if you like), will be hard-to-beat for bulking, imho. Epicatechin and Laxogenin are great ingredients, but I prefer them for a recomp.

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

Im not a fan of prop blend .. i would say ..

BPS Androcrine
Cel epi-plex

 

[dannykray]

I may not do ara at the moment because I already have sore knees and a shoulder as it is and I'm worried it may make it worse through inflammation. I think origin, alphamax, and possibly triumph should do the trick. If you had to pick between origin and triumph what would you choose? I'm a little tight on funds right now and might not be able to get both.

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

I may not do ara at the moment because I already have sore knees and a shoulder as it is and I'm worried it may make it worse through inflammation. I think origin, alphamax, and possibly triumph should do the trick. If you had to pick between origin and triumph what would you choose? I'm a little tight on funds right now and might not be able to get both.

Triumph mainly due to PA in it + creatine , BA LCLT + more

 

[dannykray]

I just bought 1000 grams of creatine so I'm set in that regard

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

I just bought 1000 grams of creatine so I'm set in that regard

you prolly got creatine mono .. the one in tr1umph i believe is creaine hydro .. stacking them wont hurt .. but if you dont want to take 2 creatine products then or1gin is your option and would love to see a review of it

 

[mechka_grizli]

Yessir



You're not mistaken. In the Bioforge (same site) thread I gave some hints on the ingredients about 2 months earlier (late Feb/ealy March).
Who cares now LOL.

F*CK man! Missed all u guys from BB. You, DBONE, etc. I read that you were with OL but didn't know you were on the forums. My love for OL just skyrocketed.

 

[Lynks8]

I may not do ara at the moment because I already have sore knees and a shoulder as it is and I'm worried it may make it worse through inflammation. I think origin, alphamax, and possibly triumph should do the trick. If you had to pick between origin and triumph what would you choose? I'm a little tight on funds right now and might not be able to get both.

If you've already got creatine covered...well, there's so, so much more to Tr1umph than creatine...but if you've already got that covered, I'd go with Or1gin purely for bulking purposes. It's going to increase your appetite, allow you to better utilize what you're eating, increase anabolism, and give you better recovery through improved sleep quality. If possible, I would add Lecithin granules. You can get a month's supply for ~$8.

p.s. Or1gin and other OL products are 20% off on nutriverse right now; just add to cart and the discount is automatically applied. You can make it 25% off by adding code "AM5".
http://www.nutri-verse.com/orig1n-by-olympus-labs/

F*CK man! Missed all u guys from BB. You, DBONE, etc. I read that you were with OL but didn't know you were on the forums. My love for OL just skyrocketed.

Yea. When I first learned xtyler = thehuge, my respect for OL went to 11.

 

[bigsmall]

I may not do ara at the moment because I already have sore knees and a shoulder as it is and I'm worried it may make it worse through inflammation. I think origin, alphamax, and possibly triumph should do the trick. If you had to pick between origin and triumph what would you choose? I'm a little tight on funds right now and might not be able to get both.

Folidrone 2.0 (reduces inflammation among other things).

 

[xtyler]

F*CK man! Missed all u guys from BB. You, DBONE, etc. I read that you were with OL but didn't know you were on the forums. My love for OL just skyrocketed.

Yea. When I first learned xtyler = thehuge, my respect for OL went to 11.

Awwwwwww

:banana::banana::banana:

 

[LeanEngineer]

I just bought 1000 grams of creatine so I'm set in that regard

Awesome! and to answer your previous question I'd probably do the triumph over the origin.

 

[Mister_T_]

Does anyone have any experience with orig1n? It seems like a fairly new product and can't find much feedback on it.

On my 4th day of Orig1n...so far so good. Definitely no complaints, I feel like it is actually helping with strength being that I am using it on a lean bulk. My carbs are cut in half from normal, protein is high. I seem to have plenty of energy for a solid workout.

Also stacking it with Rauwolscine , Forslean and Triumph so i'm sure the combined supplements are all working well together

 

[Mister_T_]

I'm surprised no one has recommended LEGENDARY by Chaos & Pain.

Yes it looks under dosed (which will raise the price per cycle a bit) compared to some other products but I will say that at 4-5 caps a day... it works very good!

I just finished a bottle of Hercules at 5 caps a day (Sparta) it was good but not "Great"

Aldo I have used EPG Laxozome...this one was indeed a waste of time.

 

[123abcabcabc]

I like laxo... can't say the same about Epi though.

 

[210LBS]

I like laxo... can't say the same about Epi though.

Could you elaborate? Which products did you try and what we're your results?

 

[pulsefit]

Just my humble opinion but I would do epi product. Cel epi plex or OL. I would skip the laxogenin and go with triumph. PA also makes many hungry great on a bulk.