Pct options

Dmj8379

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I'm new to this site, but anyways I'm almost done with my 8 week stack of 1and 4 andro by olympus labs and epiandrosterone (hard rock supplements)
For pct should I run clomid (pharma grade)with viron , and follidrone 2.0

OR Rebirth, letrone, viron and follidrone 2.0
I have them all just looking for suggestions.
 
bashar

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Nolva or clomid for sure, you have been on some serious gear so why risk it. Also, check out Olympus labs super pct, it's the most comprehensive out there. I am not sure about follidorne during pct, the goal here is to keep your gains, not build new ones( it would be great if you could).
 

Dmj8379

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Thanks for the suggestion.. I just read the ingredients on olympus labs pct looks to be pretty solid..
 
LeanEngineer

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I'd run clomid 50/50/25/25, otc pct product, otc test booster like viron and then a natural anabolic during pct like follidrone can only help so if its in the budget you could throw that in there as well.
 
AntM1564

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How about some laxigenin?
It looks like lagogenin is hit or miss for some. Currently, I am logging a laxo product for a company and do not find it worthwhile. You have a SERM and as Lean Engineer mentioned an OTC test booster could be utilized. If you have not purchased an OTC product yet, AlphaMax XT is a comprehensive option and a great addition to a well planned PCT.

You will have your AI, 3,4 dinavil/tongkat ali to boost free testosterone, Vitamin D3 and Boron to also help promote healthy testosterone levels. The AI and Ashwagandha will both control cortisol. It is a nice alternative to buying different supps for an AI, testosterone booster, libido booster, etc. Some people like DAA during PCT as well, that may be worth looking into. I've personally never ran PA, but that could be an option to use in conjunction with your SERM and AlphaMax XT/natty test booster.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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^^^ in regards to this, I say DO NOT go OTC for an 8 week 3 compound run, I understand wanting to get started with your supp line but let's not give inadequate advice. Use a SERM and I second AlphaMax XT and follidrone 2.0 in pct those 3 things will help you out nicely, throw in letrone if you can afford.
 
Woody

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I would absolutely run your SERM. Super PCT is a good compliment, but it shouldn't be a standalone. Same goes for Viron and Letrone. I have no experience with FD2.0, but reviews seem to be good. I'd also suggest Reduce XT - it's a cheap addition and cortisol tends to go wild as your body gets back to homeostasis.
 

Dmj8379

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I just want to say thank you for taking your time to help me out.. so here is my pct plan after reading your comments and doing some research
Clomid 50/50/25/25 morning
Alphamax 4/4/4/4 at night
Follidrone 3/3/3/3 lunch and pre workout
 
Woody

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Can't comment on FD but other than that looks solid.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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I just want to say thank you for taking your time to help me out.. so here is my pct plan after reading your comments and doing some research
Clomid 50/50/25/25 morning
Alphamax 4/4/4/4 at night
Follidrone 3/3/3/3 lunch and pre workout
alpha max is dosed twice daily btw supposed 1 be 1 serving (4 caps) in am and 1 serving PM, other than that sounds perfect, TBH i personally would throw Letrone in, best natty SERM ever made IMO, increases T3,T4,Ghrelin,HGH, and testosterone, makes my libido sky rocket and i've noticed differences in pcts without it takes me 2 more weeks (6-7 in total) to fully recover versus (3-4 with letrone) with the same stack
 

Dmj8379

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Yes I forgot to mention I have letrone.. I plan on using letrone weeks 3 to 6.. so I have 2 weeks on an AI
 
Ape McGrapes

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Dont listen to anyone suggesting high doses of clomid. Clomid should be run at 25mg EOD or 12.5mg EOD. More than that and tjeir is deminishing returns but higher side effects. Lower dose for a longer run is much better

Run any test booster of choice.

If it was up to me PCT would look like this.

Clomid: 25mg EOD for 8 weeks
Testruction: recomededed dose for 8 weeks
Sustain Alpha: 1-3 pumps tapered off for 12 weeks.
 
The_Old_Guy

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Just to back up Ape with an N=1 MD Case:

A Case Report

A 37 year old professional athlete and bodybuilder arrived in my office complaining of low testosterone symptoms of low libido, erectile dysfunction, chronic fatigue, and mood disorder. He admitted to anabolic steroid abuse in the past, and now sought medical intervention to “restore his testosterone to normal.”

A few years ago, he had married and fathered a child, and he now wanted to devote more time to his family, but complained of a lack of energy to do so. He also wanted to preserve fertility, as he wanted more children. Previous medical doctor’s lab studies showed low testosterone levels, all below 300 ng/dl, and low FSH and LH levels as well.

Upper left image : cropped portions of an anonymous body builder, courtesy of wikimedia commons. This image is an illustration only, and not an actual patient in any clinic.

Diagnosis and Treatment

After our usual workup, and the obvious diagnosis of hyopogonadal hypogonadism, treatment was started with HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin), an LH analog which stimulates testicular testosterone production. The patient wished to retain fertility which contra-indicated the use of Testosterone preparations.

Shortly after starting the HCG injections, the patient reported an immediate improvement in mood and energy, lasting about one week. However, this improvement was short lived and lasted only one week, after which he reported a recurrence of more severe low testosterone symptoms, worse than before.

Paradoxical Response with Lower Testosterone Levels

Repeat labs at 6 weeks showed testosterone levels had actually dropped lower to the 150 ng/dl range. FSH and LH were undetectable. My diagnosis at this point was hypothalamic suppression, and the HCG was discontinued.

Switch to Clomiphene was Sucessful

Treatment with Clomid (clomiphene 25 mg tablet daily) was started. Six weeks later, the patient reported “feeling like my old self” with improved energy, libido and mood. Repeat labs 6 weeks after starting the Clomid showed testosterone levels of 832 ng/dl, and LH and FSH had increased as well. Serum estrogen was quite high at 72 pg/ml. Anastrazole was added to the treatment program with follow up normalization of estrogen levels.
Now, I personally don't get any sides from Clomid, other than "Hot Flashes", so I stick to the 50/50/25/25 mantra (in combination with Nolva), switching to EOD dosing for a 5th or even 6th week depending on the cycle compound.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Dont listen to anyone suggesting high doses of clomid. Clomid should be run at 25mg EOD or 12.5mg EOD. More than that and tjeir is deminishing returns but higher side effects. Lower dose for a longer run is much better

Run any test booster of choice.

If it was up to me PCT would look like this.

Clomid: 25mg EOD for 8 weeks
Testruction: recomededed dose for 8 weeks
Sustain Alpha: 1-3 pumps tapered off for 12 weeks.
I'm running sustain and testruction in pct, also extended CLOMID periods is great, I never understood going over 50 it's just like mental torture for no reason.
 
jgntyce

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As mentioned already, SNS REDUCE XT is a great option to add for PCT. cortisol will always rise during PCT and you want a product that will combat the rise in cortisol. REDUCE XT would be perfect for you OP.
 

Dmj8379

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I notice that I don't get as many sides from CLOMID.. sides from nolvadex make me a moody as hell...
I
 

Dmj8379

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a second-year medical student scored a scientific first. Carol Bickelman, still studying at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine, published in the Western Journal of Medicine the first medical study that described how a chemical bodybuilder restored his hormone levels that had dropped after a heavy course of steroids, by using the anti-oestrogen fertility medicine clomiphene citrate. [structural formula shown below].






Case study: clomiphene normalises bodybuilder's hormone levels

Case study: clomiphene normalises bodybuilder's hormone levels
[Eight years later, doctors from Houston claimed the same first. Their case was more serious.] [Fertil Steril. 2003 Jan;79(1):203-5.]

The competitive bodybuilder in Bickelman's study was 29 and had just finished an 8-month long course of steroids. He had used 1500-1800 mg testosterone cypionate per week and 80 mg oxymetholone per day. [Strange dose for oxy. Maybe it was oxandrolone? - Ed.]

After his steroids course the guy was impotent, and treated this by taking a four-week course of hCG injections – to no effect.

After about a year the bodybuilder was still suffering from impotence, and he went to see a doctor. The doctor noted that the man was muscular, that his testicles were small [volume: 10 ml] and that he had 2 cm gynos around his nipples.

The man's LH and FSH production was low, as was his concentration of free testosterone. The doctors prescribed 50 mg clomiphene daily. It didn't help much. He had a morning erection, but was still impotent. Only when the bodybuilder doubled the dose to 100 mg clomiphene per day was he capable of daily sex after a month. His testicles remained small, but his hormone levels improved.


Case study: clomiphene normalises bodybuilder's hormone levels


Six months later the doctors examined the bodybuilder again. "He had returned to the illicit use of testosterone cypionate at 400 mg per week to achieve a level of sexual performance three times that achieved with clomiphene alone. He noted that his testes were smaller, and he was considering trying another course of hCG in combination with tamoxifen to prevent worsening gynecomastia."
 
AntM1564

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I just want to say thank you for taking your time to help me out.. so here is my pct plan after reading your comments and doing some research
Clomid 50/50/25/25 morning
Alphamax 4/4/4/4 at night
Follidrone 3/3/3/3 lunch and pre workout
This looks solid.

Dose AlphaMax XT two capsules in the morning and two in the evening. I prefer bed bed. Users notice a deeper and more restful night's sleep.
 

Dmj8379

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This looks solid.

Dose AlphaMax XT two capsules in the morning and two in the evening. I prefer bed bed. Users notice a deeper and more restful night's sleep.

Thanks man, just hope with all the different ingredients etc.. that it won't mess up the absorption of my clomid... I know nolvadex has lots of interactions
 
Ape McGrapes

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This looks solid
He needs to lower the clomid dose and run it longer, IMO. The same posotive effects can be obtained at lower doses without the risk of side effects, and longer clomid runs will give your body more time to adjust to the higher test levels, reach homeostasis, and less chance of crashing after cessation. Many expamples of blood work show elevated test on clomid, and then dropping back to baseline after stopping use.

Why run 4 week PCT's for cycles that could be 8-16 weeks long? Makes no sense. If you spend that much time lowering your test/hormones and supressing your HPTA, then you should atleast spend that much time trying to restore it.
 
rtmilburn

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alpha max is dosed twice daily btw supposed 1 be 1 serving (4 caps) in am and 1 serving PM, other than that sounds perfect, TBH i personally would throw Letrone in, best natty SERM ever made IMO, increases T3,T4,Ghrelin,HGH, and testosterone, makes my libido sky rocket and i've noticed differences in pcts without it takes me 2 more weeks (6-7 in total) to fully recover versus (3-4 with letrone) with the same stack
Leterone is not a SERM, it is an AI.
 
AntM1564

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He needs to lower the clomid dose and run it longer, IMO. The same posotive effects can be obtained at lower doses without the risk of side effects, and longer clomid runs will give your body more time to adjust to the higher test levels, reach homeostasis, and less chance of crashing after cessation. Many expamples of blood work show elevated test on clomid, and then dropping back to baseline after stopping use.

Why run 4 week PCT's for cycles that could be 8-16 weeks long? Makes no sense. If you spend that much time lowering your test/hormones and supressing your HPTA, then you should atleast spend that much time trying to restore it.
I never said the clomid dosage was perfect. I cannot comment on a prescribed drug.
 

Dmj8379

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With the ALPHA MAX XT it contains 75 mg of arimistake which is an AI.. wouldn't that be better at the end of the pct like the last 2 weeks
 
Ape McGrapes

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I never said the clomid dosage was perfect. I cannot comment on a prescribed drug.
Fair enough, and this really wasn't a shot at you. Maybe make that disclaimer before calling something "solid" though. Just so posters know what you are and aren't refering too.

I just go through this PCT issue every month on here, and it either goes through one ear and out the other, gets ignored or argued.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Fair enough, and this really wasn't a shot at you. Maybe make that disclaimer before calling something "solid" though. Just so posters know what you are and aren't refering too.

I just go through this PCT issue every month on here, and it either goes through one ear and out the other, gets ignored or argued.
Just for knowledge sake you think an extended run is better for preventing levels falling off after?
 
Ape McGrapes

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Just for knowledge sake you think an extended run is better for preventing levels falling off after?
Yes. There will still be a natural drop, but better chances of coming off at a higher baseline.
 
The_Old_Guy

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Yes. There will still be a natural drop, but better chances of coming off at a higher baseline.
So what's the limit on how many times this occurs? I always thought you return to baseline, period? Never heard that you could raise your "T Set-point" and be permanently higher? How many times does this occur? I wouldn't think after 10 PCT's you'd be at 1,000 naturally - ya know what I mean? Are there studies/data on this? Not calling you out - I want to learn!!!!!!! :D
 
smith_69

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So what's the limit on how many times this occurs? I always thought you return to baseline, period? Never heard that you could raise your "T Set-point" and be permanently higher? How many times does this occur? I wouldn't think after 10 PCT's you'd be at 1,000 naturally - ya know what I mean? Are there studies/data on this? Not calling you out - I want to learn!!!!!!! :D
interesting if thats the case, never heard that either
 
Ape McGrapes

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Not a higher baseline than before your cycle, but higher than if you ran 4 weeks of a serm and discontinued, compared to 8+ weeks.

Short term serm use is going to cause a quick crash in T-levels. You want to keep T elevated as ling as possible for your body to adapt to this, IMO.
 
warbird01

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Dont listen to anyone suggesting high doses of clomid. Clomid should be run at 25mg EOD or 12.5mg EOD. More than that and tjeir is deminishing returns but higher side effects. Lower dose for a longer run is much better

Run any test booster of choice.

If it was up to me PCT would look like this.

Clomid: 25mg EOD for 8 weeks
Testruction: recomededed dose for 8 weeks
Sustain Alpha: 1-3 pumps tapered off for 12 weeks.
Do you have a study showing that 25mg is just as good as 50mg? All the studies I have seen only do 25mg ED or 50mg EOD. I've been looking for a study showing a 50mg dosage but haven't been able to find one.
 

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