[Zero Tolerance]

Okay. I just got done reading about "diesel test" and thought - oh, boy. Yet another Tribulus Testris or whatever it is... My head spins when trying to figure out what's out there that works.. So I'm starting a thread where we discuss what people are liking best on the market. Which supplements do we all agree actually work at raising free testosterone?

Here are the ones I know about:
Tribulus
ZMA
6-0X0

What did I forget? I know there are a few new things out there... Maybe there's an 'ultimate stack' that we could put together combining several supplements that work - to create one great cycle that actually does something...

[StuckeyBoss]

How about Viraloid by VyoTech. The company is sponsored by the all time best bodybuilder Shawn Ray now.

[Zero Tolerance]

It kinda seems like it can fall into the Tribulus category.. It's got Wild Yam though. Maybe that makes a difference...

http://www.vyotech.com/products/viraloid/

[chasec]

these products aren't worth the labels that are printed on them. 6-oxo is a good product that has it's uses; however it's a bit too expensive in my book to use for a continued period of time to see good results. there are so many other supplements that work better for the $ than trib, zma, etc. i reccommend

CEE/Citrulline Malate/Di-Arginine Malate/AAKG/Taurine/ALCAR stack
Sesathin
GXR
Fish Oil

and technically, superdrol IS still legal (grey area)

[Zero Tolerance]

Well. Hopefully we can get a good list of supplements that do great things. I, for one, I'm tired of reading about the guy who "finally found a source" who sells steroids and figuring there's no hope for the regular joe.

[milwood]

there's Longjack (Tongat Ali) which got a lot of hype for a while. Dunno if it ever panned out regarding test elevation or whether it goes into the "snake oil" category. Curious if anyone knows, though.

[Fastflight]

Long Jack sensitized on my already sensitized nipples,but I don´t think it will do something with your test-levels in such a manner,worth the (possible)side(gynaecomastia).

But...it´s a very,very good anit-anxiety agent.
I´d say formestane is a good thing to do after a cycle,or maybe as a stand-alone at least my nuts tell.

[Nate Dawg]

So what is the truth on formestane during post cycle, I know it is a good anti estrogen, but dose it in fact suppress your HPTA. I always kinda thought it did, but not very harshly.

[Nate Dawg]

Long Jack sensitized on my already sensitized nipples,but I don´t think it will do something with your test-levels in such a manner,worth the (possible)side(gynaecomastia).

But...it´s a very,very good anit-anxiety agent.
I´d say formestane is a good thing to do after a cycle,or maybe as a stand-alone at least my nuts tell.

Did the long jack increase your libido any? I have read it is a good libido booster, havent found much feedback on it though.

[Fastflight]

Don´t know myself.In litarature thre wasn´t an alteration in Lh and FSH with formestane in cancer-patients.
But I think in a suppressed state the advantage outweight the slight AR-affinity,which I think,doesn´t really play a role.

[Fastflight]

Did the long jack increase your libido any? I have read it is a good libido booster, havent found much feedback on it though.

Slightly,I would say it didn´t increase it,it altered a bit the perception of my libido.
I haven´t had any issues with my potence at this time,so it´s hard to say.

[BryanM]

Well there is no actual evidence that trib or longjack raise test levels.

I know that longjack is a potent libido enhancer!!!

I mistook it for my milkthistle once and ended taking 5 grams of it on accident OH MAN that was fun I must of had sex 5 or 6 times that day

Your best actual bet would be the 6oxo or any AI in actually increasing test levels beyond normal.


ZMA is more for just maintenance of healthy test levels it wont really increase test beyond the normal parameters

[CEDeoudes59]

Rebound XT anyone? That is potent as hell.

[Zero Tolerance]

Okay, so we have four things that work so far?

Rebound XT - Diene-3TM (1,4-androstadiene - 3,6,17-dione)
6-OXO - (delta-4-10, 13-dimethyl-cyclopenta[a]phenantrene-3,6,17-trione)
Arimidex (anastrozole)
Nolvadex (tamoxifen)

And we're going to assume that nothing else available works. Correct? No Tribulus product, unleashed or ZMA - all which are touted to raise free testosterone...

Has anyone tried combining all four of these to see what happens or would there be something very dangerous about that? I mean, maybe not using them all at once, but somehow cycling them.. Or would they all just basically kill one another off and render each other useless?

[Alpha Dog]

Okay, so we have four things that work so far?

Rebound XT - Diene-3TM (1,4-androstadiene - 3,6,17-dione)
6-OXO - (delta-4-10, 13-dimethyl-cyclopenta[a]phenantrene-3,6,17-trione)
Arimidex (anastrozole)
Nolvadex (tamoxifen)

And we're going to assume that nothing else available works. Correct? No Tribulus product, unleashed or ZMA - all which are touted to raise free testosterone...

Has anyone tried combining all four of these to see what happens or would there be something very dangerous about that? I mean, maybe not using them all at once, but somehow cycling them.. Or would they all just basically kill one another off and render each other useless?

You should consider researching the effects of utra-low estrogen levels (GH, IGF-1, long term inhibition of the pituitary) what happens to free T when you increase endogenous T and finally the physiological effects of administering an estrogen receptor antagonist (Nolva) when T is within normal levels.

[chasec]

also, understand that most SERM's are hepatotoxic in moderate doseages over an extended period of time

[Zero Tolerance]

Maybe this would be something to consider for a few weeks on and a few weeks off...

[Alpha Dog]

Maybe this would be something to consider for a few weeks on and a few weeks off...

Why? You are not going to see any appreciable changes in body composition. If anything, the decrease in GH and IGF-1 from depressing estrogen levels to virtually nothing (from taking all those AI's and SERM's) could even result in a loss of LBM.

[Zero Tolerance]

I see what you're saying... Well, I suppose it was wishful thinking...

[BryanM]

Why? You are not going to see any appreciable changes in body composition. If anything, the decrease in GH and IGF-1 from depressing estrogen levels to virtually nothing (from taking all those AI's and SERM's) could even result in a loss of LBM.

I could see this with an AI but SERM as well isnt a serm synthetic estrogen and thus once in the body still have posative effects on lipid panels as well as IGF production???

[UNDERTAKER]

imo any legal supp designed to raise test levels is garbage, dont waste your money.

[CDB]

I could see this with an AI but SERM as well isnt a serm synthetic estrogen and thus once in the body still have posative effects on lipid panels as well as IGF production???

Perhaps. Drugs will behave differently in people depending on what kind of condition they are in.

[Alpha Dog]

Perhaps. Drugs will behave differently in people depending on what kind of condition they are in.

As well as it is has been hypothesized that the aromatization of T to E is also a rate determining factor in the production of GH and IGF-1.

[BryanM]

As well as it is has been hypothesized that the aromatization of T to E is also a rate determining factor in the production of GH and IGF-1.

Oh I see I always thought it was just the presence of E itself.