Second cycle on Trimax

[Elizzard]

Ok...so my first cycle on Trimax wasn't great - didn't get results that I was hoping for (only about a 5 lb loss). I was running 3 caps a day for at least 2 1/2 weeks on it. I was wondering if I decide to run it again if it would be ok to start out on 3 caps and up it to 4 a day? I realize that it's advised against, but I experianced little to no side effects at 3...so maybe my body could handle the 4? Anyone know?

Also... I didn't use a thermo on my first cycle do you think throwing that in on my second cycle would generate better loss? I've only been off the trimax for 2 weeks and I'm dying to run it again and try a few different things in hopes of better results.

 

[B5150]

First off...what does your diet and training look like? If this is not in order you are wasting your Trimax, your thyroid and your time.

 

[Elizzard]

I know, my diet and training are in tact. Right now I'm eating 1500 calories a day for PCT...while on Trimax I went down to 1200 a day, high protein and low carb, low fat. I do 6 days if cardio a week on an empty stomach for 50 minutes, then lift weights 4 days a week. Keep in mind i'm female 5'6, 155 lbs.

 

[B5150]

I know, my diet and training are in tact. Right now I'm eating 1500 calories a day for PCT...while on Trimax I went down to 1200 a day, high protein and low carb, low fat. I do 6 days if cardio a week on an empty stomach for 50 minutes, then lift weights 4 days a week. Keep in mind i'm female 5'6, 155 lbs.

OK
I do not recommend going to 4 caps. I do recommend that you get a good E/C stack, and maybe some fish oil. If you can swing for it, some Sesathin as well. There are a lot of supplements that are available to help out, but you should be able to drop 1-2lbs a week on just E/C and your diet and training alone.
But...it does sound like you are an endo, yes?
It also sounds like you want some quick results, yes?

 

[SJA]

I'd run a clen or ECY stack for a couple weeks. Are you lifting prior to cardio or is all of your cardio in the AM? If so, I would do some of your cardio after you lift.

 

[Elizzard]

You guessed right..endo yes...i do want quick results; however i've been working very hard the past 5 months...so I'm really looking for long-lasting results.

What is Sesathin? and if i'm senesitive to ephedra/caff would would be another good option?

But...it does sound like you are an endo, yes?
It also sounds like you want some quick results, yes?

 

[Elizzard]

I'm lifting after cardio...so maybe i should change that.

I'd run a clen or ECY stack for a couple weeks. Are you lifting prior to cardio or is all of your cardio in the AM? If so, I would do some of your cardio after you lift.

 

[B5150]

What is Sesathin?

Sesathin...not really neccesary.

i'm senesitive to ephedra/caff would would be another good option?

Have you tried ephedrine-hcl. There are some who cannot tolerate ephedra (herbal derivative), but ephedrine just fine. An NCY stack may work well for you as well. My guess is SJA mentioned the "Y" because of female adipose receptors tend to respond better to Y, as opposed to E.

I'm lifting after cardio...so maybe i should change that.

Absolutely. Your lifting will have more intensity and your cardio will be more effective. You could also do them seperately (AM/PM) but it is not advised to do them consecutively in the order that you are doing them.

Right now I'm eating 1500 calories a day for PCT...

btw, is this PCT from a previous androgen cycle or Trimax cycle?

 

[SJA]

:goodpost: B5150. I'm also glad that you have the definition of your screen name up now :rofl:

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

I'd run a clen or ECY stack for a couple weeks.

One other small concern... be very careful if considering tha use of clen. You definitely wanna read up on it a good bit first. Personally I'd go with tha ECY, or PPA and Y as lots of females in tha past became Adipokinetix groupies. Either way, B5150 and SJA are like family. Two guys whom you can always trust their advice

 

[B5150]

:goodpost: B5150. I'm also glad that you have the definition of your screen name up now :rofl:

Yeah, now we have a document to back up what some of us already knew. :wave:

Personally I'd go with tha ECY, or PPA and Y as lots of females in tha past became Adipokinetix groupies.

Let me know via PM if you have an interest in PPA.

Either way, B5150 and SJA are like family.

What do you mean 'like' family? "I'm your father Luke".

 

[Lean One]

I'm lifting after cardio...so maybe i should change that.

Definitely. B5150 is spot on. However, I would add that you might want to considder upping your carbs a little around your workout. Trimax increases the rate at wich your body utilizes nutrients. Especially carbs.

BTW, Could you outline your type, frequency, intensity and duration of cardio? There might be some things we can tweak as bit regarding that.

 

[custom]

I would also suggest doing a 4 week cycle. For most endo's, results do not really start to come around to week 3.

 

[Lean One]

I would also suggest doing a 4 week cycle. For most endo's, results do not really start to come around to week 3.

Actually, you can go six. There. I said it. Custom won't. (liability reasons. ) Taper up and down.

 

[SJA]

I can't believe that an ecto would say 6 weeks...even the thought of that would strip 30 pounds of muscle from you frame :icon_lol: :rofl:

:wave: Toad

 

[B5150]

I would also suggest doing a 4 week cycle. For most endo's, results do not really start to come around to week 3.

Yes, as an endo I find that 4 weeks is the least that I do. As an endo I am able to retain LBM very well, as well as my generously sized ass.

 

[Lean One]

I can't believe that an ecto would say 6 weeks...even the thought of that would strip 30 pounds of muscle from you frame :icon_lol: :rofl:

:wave: Toad

I'm of the opinion that this can be minimized quite effectively with the right modifications in nutrition.

Also, I think that a lot of what people think is muscle loss is merely glycogen loss witch can easily be picked back up upon stopping the Trimax. Especially with an androgen or something like GXR.

 

[Elizzard]

WOW, thank you all so much for your helpful tips...ABM is so awesome!

Have you tried ephedrine-hcl.

I've never tried Ephedrine. I would definatly give it a shot if it doesn't act the same as ephedra WHat is an NCY stack or PPA?

btw, is this PCT from a previous androgen cycle or Trimax cycle?

Trimax Cycle

 

[Elizzard]

considder upping your carbs a little around your workout. Trimax increases the rate at wich your body utilizes nutrients. Especially carbs.

Usually I eat oats and protein after my morning workout. I've been doing cardio on an empty stomach during PCT...should I continue this when I do my next cycle of Trimax?

BTW, Could you outline your type, frequency, intensity and duration of cardio? There might be some things we can tweak as bit regarding that.

For PCT i've been running on the Elliptical machine for 50 minutes, 6 days a week - empty stomach, first thing in the morning. Intenstity on a scale from 1 being low to 10 being my very hardest, I'd say it was somewhere around a 6 and usually I run with the resistance fairly high.

While I was taking Trimax my workout were in the afternoon, I would either go to a spinning class (45 minutes), 2 days a week, intensity at an 8. Then the other 4 days I would either run on elliptical for 40 minutes, intensity at about an 8 or 9; or I would do stair steper for 30 minutes - same intensity.

 

[Elizzard]

I read that you don't actually have to taper up on the second cycle, that the only reason you do that is to see how much you actually need to take. So could i start out this next time at 3 caps? then taper down the last week or so?

You were talking about glycogen loss if someone ran trimax for 6 weeks....would i have to take an androgen after if i run it for 6 weeks rather than 4? b/c i'd rather not do that.

Actually, you can go six. There. I said it. Custom won't. (liability reasons. ) Taper up and down.

 

[B5150]

I've never tried Ephedrine. I would definatly give it a shot if it doesn't act the same as ephedra

Ephedine-hcl is the synthetic version of the active metabolite in ephedra. The E-hcl is a precise dose of Ephedrine. Most find it to be a more clean stimulant and it is a precise dose of the active E.

WHat is an NCY stack or PPA?

NYC= NorEphedrine/Yohimbine/Caffeine. It is not readily available primarily because it contains NorEphedrine. But PPA happens to be precurser to NorE. It is also not readily available. Some people make a home made stack of NYC: 25mg-N(PPA)/2.5-5mg-Y/200mg-C.
Y&C can be sourced at a retailer of choice (always support board sponsors) and PPA IS available (as well as very discounted E-hcl). I suggest you use the PM function to discuss those with me further if you have the interest.

 

[Lean One]

Usually I eat oats and protein after my morning workout. I've been doing cardio on an empty stomach during PCT...should I continue this when I do my next cycle of Trimax?


For PCT i've been running on the Elliptical machine for 50 minutes, 6 days a week - empty stomach, first thing in the morning. Intenstity on a scale from 1 being low to 10 being my very hardest, I'd say it was somewhere around a 6 and usually I run with the resistance fairly high.

While I was taking Trimax my workout were in the afternoon, I would either go to a spinning class (45 minutes), 2 days a week, intensity at an 8. Then the other 4 days I would either run on elliptical for 40 minutes, intensity at about an 8 or 9; or I would do stair steper for 30 minutes - same intensity.

I'm not a proponent of fasted state cardio.But if it's been working for you and you like it, then keep doing it.

As for cardio, I recommend consistant steady state cardio at 60% to 65% Max HR. Do you know exactly what your heart rate is during your cardio? You should IMO, and if you don't, you need to find out. Spinning classes make it impossible to perform cardio like i described. I'm guessing that a lot of your cardio is spent above 65% and you're just burning up glycogen. Not good when you couple that with trimax.

 

[SJA]

I'm not a proponent of fasted state cardio.But if it's been working for you and you like it, then keep doing it.

As for cardio, I recommend consistant steady state cardio at 60% to 65% Max HR. Do you know exactly what your heart rate is during your cardio? You should IMO, and if you don't, you need to find out. Spinning classes make it impossible to perform cardio like i described. I'm guessing that a lot of your cardio is spent above 65% and you're just burning up glycogen. Not good when you couple that with trimax.

You're not a proponent because you are an ecto I've read threads at different boards posting feedback on this topic. I recollect that endos seem to be the major proponents of this type of activity.....but I'm with you on this one

I agree with the spinning class not being the greatest for fat loss. Drop the heart rate and get up on your feet (ala treadmill or elliptical). You will have greater fat loss this way. Don't confuse conditioning with fat loss....they are totally different entities.

 

[Elizzard]

Interesting...I had no idea that I was doing the wrong type of cardio...man that sucks I was kicking my ass for nothing, lol. I should probably invest in a heart rate monitor...I'm really not certain that i'm at 60-65%, I would guess I was quite a bit higher.

I agree with the spinning class not being the greatest for fat loss. Drop the heart rate and get up on your feet (ala treadmill or elliptical). You will have greater fat loss this way. Don't confuse conditioning with fat loss....they are totally different entities.

 

[MorganKane]

:goodpost: B5150. I'm also glad that you have the definition of your screen name up now :rofl:

You are right.
So many things became clear after reading it :icon_lol:

 

[Lean One]

Interesting...I had no idea that I was doing the wrong type of cardio...man that sucks I was kicking my ass for nothing, lol. I should probably invest in a heart rate monitor...I'm really not certain that i'm at 60-65%, I would guess I was quite a bit higher.

Excellent Idea! :thumbsup:

You could also try doing a search on
'low intensity cardio".Myself and Bobo have gone into this topic on numerous threads in the past.

 

[B5150]

:goodpost: B5150. I'm also glad that you have the definition of your screen name up now :rofl:

You are right.
So many things became clear after reading it :icon_lol:

Gee wiz guys. Just because I have episodes from time to time does not mean I am without feelings. Now the voices are telling me to do things again. They are not very nice things. Just when you think everything is going to be normal again...it hits you. You're "5150 all over again". :frustrate

 

[raylewis]

whats the most optimal time to take trimax if you're taking 1 at a time? how about when you double dose when ramping up? morning/night?

 

[B5150]

I always try to split my doses equaly throughout the day. If you are taking two...every 12 hours. Three gets a little tricky because if you react with increased HR after dosing, a late evening/night dose may keep you awake.

 

[KCPreki11]

So is it a good idea or not to taper down at the end of a first cycle?

 

[B5150]

There has been some discussion regarding this and if it is needed. If you are shut down, do you want to taper, reducing the exogenous T3 levels, or keep taking it and then just stop. I'm not too sure myself. I taper, a bit sharper/rapid down than up, but taper just the same. Maybe someone with more TSH knowledge can chime in.

 

[BigP0ppa3]

From what I've read on these boards, I don't believe Trimax needs to be tapered down.

Tapering up is useful to gauge your comfort level with it - but then when it comes time to end the cycle you can just end and start a PCT if desired.

Based on personal use (and bloodwork posted by Supersoldier) I would use without tapering, then keep a close eye on your diet and workout for at least a few weeks as your thyroid bounces back on its own.

BP

 

[Elizzard]

So if you're tapering up to guage your comfort level and you already know what your comfort level is; there's really no point doing that again for the second cycle. Am I correct on this?

 

[Lean One]

So if you're tapering up to guage your comfort level and you already know what your comfort level is; there's really no point doing that again for the second cycle. Am I correct on this?

I would taper up anyway. (I am right now) Your body could react diferently depending on the circumstances.

 

[Syr]

Are you lifting prior to cardio or is all of your cardio in the AM? If so, I would do some of your cardio after you lift.

Hmm... whats the reason behind this?
i always thought that cardio is better to do on off days or in the worse case, in the AM when trainin in the PM of the same days.

 

[Lean One]

Hmm... whats the reason behind this?
i always thought that cardio is better to do on off days or in the worse case, in the AM when trainin in the PM of the same days.

Because you are already primed for fat loss after weight training. It will take less time for lipolisis to to fill the blood with FFAs to be burned as fuel.

Provided you are doing low intensity cardio of course.

I get the feeling you're a little cardio-fobic? Like ten minutes of cardio will strip 10lbs of gains off you or something.Hehehe :hammer:

 

[WhutEvr]

So if you're tapering up to guage your comfort level and you already know what your comfort level is; there's really no point doing that again for the second cycle. Am I correct on this?

Second cycle I tapered up but for a shorter duration (4 days instead of 7).
Did not taper down.

 

[SJA]

Because you are already primed for fat loss after weight training. It will take less time for lipolisis to to fill the blood with FFAs to be burned as fuel.

Provided you are doing low intensity cardio of course.

I get the feeling you're a little cardio-fobic? Like ten minutes of cardio will strip 10lbs of gains off you or something.Hehehe :hammer:

:goodpost: Correctamundo. Your muscles will call on glycogen for the expedient strength used during lifting. After depleting glycogen in your blood supply during lifts (and this is where you would want to use those supplies), your body will call on fat for fuel when you start doing cardio. As LO pointed out, you would want to do low impact cardio since the next best fuel source for explosive strength (IE: HIIT) would be muscle if your glycogen reserves have been previously utilized.

 

[Syr]

:goodpost: Correctamundo. Your muscles will call on glycogen for the expedient strength used during lifting. After depleting glycogen in your blood supply during lifts (and this is where you would want to use those supplies), your body will call on fat for fuel when you start doing cardio. As LO pointed out, you would want to do low impact cardio since the next best fuel source for explosive strength (IE: HIIT) would be muscle if your glycogen reserves have been previously utilized.

Uhm... So, you would delay the post-workout nutrition after the cardio (how long? 20 or 30 mins?)... hmm
We're going off topic, I think i should start a new thread... i'll HAVE to do cardio in my next recomp cycle. For now, I'm happy without
Occasional walks are like low-intensity cardio, arent they?

 

[Syr]

I get the feeling you're a little cardio-fobic? Like ten minutes of cardio will strip 10lbs of gains off you or something.Hehehe :hammer:

No, its just that I've never needed it. So I dont know a s*it about cardio
The only thing I did are occasional walks (with light weights) to improve the overall body conditioning.

But after the last 2 bulking cycles, now I know that i have to include it some way in my routine.

 

[Lean One]

Uhm... So, you would delay the post-workout nutrition after the cardio (how long? 20 or 30 mins?)...

Just have your PWO meal as soon as possible after cardio. A nifty little side effect of cardio is that it increases insulin sensitivity as much or more than strength training does.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

I'll never understand the recommendations of tapering down T3 or Trimax (tapering up makes sense so you can see how you'll react). One dose of either will elicit supraphysiological levels of T3 causing your thyroid to just sit back and relax. Only once any exogenous sources of thyroid hormone are gone from your system will your thyroid get back into action (homeostasis and all that). Best thing to do is keep low GI carbs high and do a lot of high intensity exercise post-cycle to kick-start your thyroid and minimize any rebound fat gain.

 

[KCPreki11]

then keep a close eye on your diet and workout for at least a few weeks as your thyroid bounces back on its own.BP

Can you explain exactly what I would have to keep an eye on? Just make sure my diet continues to stay clean and stay with the cardio?

 

[Lean One]

Can you explain exactly what I would have to keep an eye on? Just make sure my diet continues to stay clean and stay with the cardio?

Yes, keep it clean, but just because it's clean doesn't mean you can increase calories right away.

 

[mb27]

I've taken t3 a number of times and never tapered. The faster you stop taking it, the faster your TSH will start up and in turn will get your thyroid going again quicker. If you taper down to say 25mcg, that is still enough to shut everything down.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

I've taken t3 a number of times and never tapered. The faster you stop taking it, the faster your TSH will start up and in turn will get your thyroid going again quicker. If you taper down to say 25mcg, that is still enough to shut everything down.

Couldn't be more true, but people will, until the end of time, continue to ignore this obviously true statement and waste T3 on nearly worthless tapering down doses.