Creatine & Strength

[Dustin07]

I'm not really on any supplements right now except fishoil and I take a pre-workout about 50% of the time. When I do, I typically take C4 which says it has 1g of creatine in it, and I used to take probalby 15-20g of creatine.

I've been feeling really good about myself this year and I've started questioning the value of most supplments.

with one exception. My squats absolutely suck. last fall I PR'd at 320 back squat (with a 450 deadlift) and right now even 225 feels grueling. I've been doing a lot of hypertrophy work and I feel like its helped build bigger arms, lats, and chest. I'm happy with the hypertrophy results. I'm staying lean and kept my abs all winter. BUT overall brute strength is down.

squats, deadlifts, jerk, snatch, all down. I have dealt with some tightness in the lower back, but I'm starting to think that maybe its the lack of additional supplementation that's got me down.

I'm performing OK on general conditioning and wods (xfit) but brute strength is down.

My old pre-workout that seemed to lead to PRs was:

creatine, stim, BCAA, and carbo plus (25g).

maybe its time to get back into that.

To Infinity, and Beyond! - Page 42



long story short.. when coming off creatine, have you guys noticed that your top end strength numbers could drop, while every other performance matrix would stay high? If not for my squats and deads sucking so much, I'd not suspect there was an issue at all.

 

[john.patterson]

I haven't stopped using creatine in a while, but in the past I've noticed that not taking creating made it harder to push out those last few reps. Nothing to the degree you are describing though.

Has your diet or sleep/recovery changed at all? Also, when is the last time you deloaded or took a few days off from the gym? It could be something to do with supplementation, but my guess is there is something larger scale that's impacting your numbers in the gym

 

[TrainerTone]

I doubt lack of Creatine use would lead to your squat decreasing my almost 100 lbs. Also no need for 15-20 grams of Creatine a day if you do get back on. Just 5g daily is all you need

 

[Dustin07]

I haven't stopped using creatine in a while, but in the past I've noticed that not taking creating made it harder to push out those last few reps. Nothing to the degree you are describing though.

Has your diet or sleep/recovery changed at all? Also, when is the last time you deloaded or took a few days off from the gym? It could be something to do with supplementation, but my guess is there is something larger scale that's impacting your numbers in the gym

I did deload as soon as I felt my numbers shrinking back in October but they never did truly come back. I attempted Smolov for a while but simply couldn't keep up with it. not due to a lack of effort or time in the gym, I couldn't hit the prescribed weight/reps.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

To state the obvious: if you want to most effectively increase, or maintain, a certain %RM, you need to be training with that specific RM consistently.

 

[NurseGray]

Creatine shouldn't account for that much of a loss in strength. Also, I would stick to the 3.5g-5g daily if your going to be hoping back on. 15g-20g daily is not necessary.

 

[cobri66]

I personally thought I lost strength when I stopped using creatine..not a lot mind you..but some

 

[Jiigzz]

To state the obvious: if you want to most effectively increase, or maintain, a certain %RM, you need to be training with that specific RM consistently.

Pretty much this. If you shifted from strength to hypertrophy, then expect your numbers to reflect that.

 

[warbird01]

Have you switched pre workouts? Maybe it's the lack of stims or something?

 

[smith_69]

when you increase your body’s use of ATP creatine improves gym performance and increases your overall strength and power output.

When you stop using creatine, the additional phosphate groups it was previously providing to your muscle cells for enhanced strength will also be diminished.

So, if you respond to creatine supplementation, you may notice a small reduction in your overall strength after a few weeks of stopping. However, it likely won’t be to a significant degree as long as you continue with your regular training program.

lean muscle gains shouldn't decrease if you continue training and eating in the same way as you were previously.

Diet, reps, range, frequency may have more to do with this then creatine.

 

[HIT4ME]

As above - your change in training probably has more effect than your change in supplements. Creatine does help a little, and probably helps create improvments over time, IMO - but it isn't going to cause 100 pound increase nor 100 pound drop.

You sound like me - strong deadlift and relatively weak squats. I had a deadlift of about 450 and my squat was probably in the 325-350 range for a 1RM. I was doing brief, intense workouts beyond failure and I was typically training with leg extensions to pre-exhaust my quads and then going to squats, and squatting 1X per week and deadlifting 1X per week. My squats after leg extensions (beyond failure) were typically 8-10 reps with about 225-245 pounds.

I have never done a 5X5 program and decided to just change things up - so I've been squatting 3X per week. One of the biggest things I've noticed is that training the way I did before - I had a strong deadlift but my back always had nagging pain issues. Just certain movements would cause me to freeze up or hurt. Now that I squat 3X/week and have been focused on the exercise, my back pain is completely gone and those movements are easier, and my squat has become more "natural" feeling. It's like they say - train the motion.

 

[bighulksmash]

When i ran cremax xt by performax labs I didn't notice any drop in performance after a few weeks of finishing . I did however notice my recovery time grew longer.

 

[Dustin07]

thanks for the replies and brainstorming guys.
I went back through and studied my log again from August-December to try to figure out what happened.

I PR'd in September and felt on top of the world.
I hit a brick wall shortly after (exhaustion)
I did some travel for work which screwed my training a little bit.
I compensated for my exhaustion by moving to hypertrophy work. When I didn't have 300 x 1 in me, I'd drop down and rep out at a lighter weight to feel as though I had still got a good workout in.
I started preparing for an xfit comp in December by doing more conditioning work, and more barbell work at lower weight/higher reps
I somehow injured my back (I think its the bed, not the movements)
I never truly bounced back, and stuck with they hypertrophy because I'm addicted to feeling as though I busted my butt in the gym. so on a legs day, I would always want to feel like I needed the wheelchair to leave.
I stopped taking all supplements. at first because I ran out and didn't restock, but then I thought I was fine without them.

I seemed to have done my best growth when I pyramided my weight up.

one day was sets of 3 reps up to my heaviest set of 3.
one day was singles up to my heaviest.
come back and do 3's or 5's
come back and do singles and doubles.

lately everything has been 5, 8, or 10+ reps.

I'm back on my standard supps. creatine, BCAA, carbs, Citrulline, fishoil, etc.
I'm working on fixing my back.

I'm adjusting to front squats and high bar squats since they seem to bother the back less.

I'm going to focus tonight on heavy 3's and see what I can do. I'll work on stretching and mobility this weekend, then come back to heavy singles on my next session. I'll try to emulate my log from last summer and see if I can rebuild.

 

[HIT4ME]

Funny you think your back pain is from your bed. That is exactly what I thought too. I would deadlift 400 pounds and feel fine. I would squat and feel fine. But after getting out of bed in the morning I'd have nagging pain. Or sometimes I'd do a simple movement bending over for some reason and my back would lock up. I haven't changed my bed. But I've increased my squat frequency and weight, and these issues are pretty much gone.

 

[Dustin07]

mine is the opposite. I used to think it was my snatch or squat form that was killing my back. I switched over to a high quality foam mattress and my back pain immediately went away. I'm in a different bed now without that foam mattress so I think that's the culprit. I need to get a foam topper again.

 

[smith_69]

Funny you think your back pain is from your bed. That is exactly what I thought too. I would deadlift 400 pounds and feel fine. I would squat and feel fine. But after getting out of bed in the morning I'd have nagging pain. Or sometimes I'd do a simple movement bending over for some reason and my back would lock up. I haven't changed my bed. But I've increased my squat frequency and weight, and these issues are pretty much gone.

where is the pain coming from hit?

 

[HIT4ME]

mine is the opposite. I used to think it was my snatch or squat form that was killing my back. I switched over to a high quality foam mattress and my back pain immediately went away. I'm in a different bed now without that foam mattress so I think that's the culprit. I need to get a foam topper again.

Ok, glad to hear that is all it is. Those foam mattress toppers can be pretty awesome.

where is the pain coming from hit?

This pain was along my spinal erectors and sides. I was beginning to worry it was a herniated disc at one point, but the pain is about completely gone.

Tied to is, I noticed that if I was laying flat with my legs straight and tried sitting up, I often had a sharp pain in my groin/abdomen, which also concerned me. It seems that is 95% gone and I am assuming it was a muscle weakness from all the sitting I do...

 

[smith_69]

Ok, glad to hear that is all it is. Those foam mattress toppers can be pretty awesome.




This pain was along my spinal erectors and sides. I was beginning to worry it was a herniated disc at one point, but the pain is about completely gone.

Tied to is, I noticed that if I was laying flat with my legs straight and tried sitting up, I often had a sharp pain in my groin/abdomen, which also concerned me. It seems that is 95% gone and I am assuming it was a muscle weakness from all the sitting I do...

had to check on this and this may not be the direct cause but maybe, it will help to verify more of a specific area- Aponeurosis of the abdominal external oblique muscle- this muscle fiber. strong membranous structure, the fibers of which are directed downward and medially.

It is joined with that of the opposite muscle along the middle line, and covers the whole of the front of the abdomen; above, it is covered by and gives origin to the lower fibers of the pectoralis major; below, its fibers are closely aggregated together, and extend obliquely across from the anterior superior iliac spine to the pubic tubercle and the pectineal line.

Here is the wiki link- hope some of this was helpful

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aponeurosis_of_the_abdominal_external_oblique_muscle

 

[HIT4ME]

had to check on this and this may not be the direct cause but maybe, it will help to verify more of a specific area- Aponeurosis of the abdominal external oblique muscle- this muscle fiber. strong membranous structure, the fibers of which are directed downward and medially.

It is joined with that of the opposite muscle along the middle line, and covers the whole of the front of the abdomen; above, it is covered by and gives origin to the lower fibers of the pectoralis major; below, its fibers are closely aggregated together, and extend obliquely across from the anterior superior iliac spine to the pubic tubercle and the pectineal line.

Here is the wiki link- hope some of this was helpful

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aponeurosis_of_the_abdominal_external_oblique_muscle

Thank you for the information! It is funny because I was deadlifting up to 450 pounds for singles and it would feel great. Even if it was bothering me before the workout, I would deadlift and feel better after. Same with squatting - it didn't upset it, it helped it. Which made me question herniation of the abdomen or anything like that.

These types of things can be so nagging and hard to fix - and sitting for so much of the day in a car, behind a computer screen, etc. isn't good for this type of thing. Finding all these small muscles and exercises to rehab/prehab them can be very helpful.

 

[smith_69]

Thank you for the information! It is funny because I was deadlifting up to 450 pounds for singles and it would feel great. Even if it was bothering me before the workout, I would deadlift and feel better after. Same with squatting - it didn't upset it, it helped it. Which made me question herniation of the abdomen or anything like that.

These types of things can be so nagging and hard to fix - and sitting for so much of the day in a car, behind a computer screen, etc. isn't good for this type of thing. Finding all these small muscles and exercises to rehab/prehab them can be very helpful.

agree bro,

 

[Dustin07]

Ok, glad to hear that is all it is. Those foam mattress toppers can be pretty awesome.




This pain was along my spinal erectors and sides. I was beginning to worry it was a herniated disc at one point, but the pain is about completely gone.

Tied to is, I noticed that if I was laying flat with my legs straight and tried sitting up, I often had a sharp pain in my groin/abdomen, which also concerned me. It seems that is 95% gone and I am assuming it was a muscle weakness from all the sitting I do...

I have a burst disc, but with a good bed it doesn't seem to be an issue. however when my spine is bothering me, i've found just doing prone extensions on the floor make an incredible difference. like 10 reps with a 10 second hold, its incredible.