Noisy joints... is it a problem?
- 04-29-2005, 02:34 AM
Noisy joints... is it a problem?
I'm sure some of the other guys here know what I'm talking about. My joints and ankles/wrists in particular can sometimes make cracking sounds, kind of like knuckle cracking but in the ankle or wrist itself. Whenever I stand on my tip toes my whole foot cracks. I've done some research and found that this sound and feeling is ligaments moving across the bone and slipping in and out of position as the foot moves. Is this condition being caused by a deficiency of some kind? The wrist and ankle in particular should be completely silent when you walk, tip toe around, jump, etc, correct?
Wondering if anyone knows anything about this
- 04-29-2005, 02:52 AM
Originally Posted by hypo
04-29-2005, 03:00 AM
04-29-2005, 03:10 AM
This guy pretty much explains everything I have (although mine seems a bit more minor):
I might look into the trigger point therapy, I've never heard of it before.
04-29-2005, 08:44 AM
I'm curious as well. I get the "crackling" sound in my knee sometimes. It usually happens when I'm laying down and I get up.
04-29-2005, 08:55 AM
Could also be the release of built up gases in the joint.
Joints are the meeting points of two separate bones, held together and in place by connective tissues and ligaments. All of the joints in our bodies are surrounded by synovial fluid, a thick, clear liquid. When you stretch or bend your finger to pop the knuckle, you are causing the bones of the joint to pull apart. As they do, the connective tissue capsule that surrounds the joint is stretched. By stretching this capsule, you increase its volume. And as we know from chemistry class, with an increase in volume comes a decrease in pressure. So as the pressure of the synovial fluid drops, gases dissolved in the fluid become less soluble, forming bubbles through a process called cavitation. When the joint is stretched far enough, the pressure in the capsule drops so low that these bubbles burst, producing the pop that we associate with knuckle cracking.
04-29-2005, 03:16 PM
A lot of the cracking and popping is often the result of either muscle imbalances or one or more groups being far too tight. Stretching, yoga, A.R.T., deep tissue massage all work well to stretch and realign muscles so that there is less tension placed on the joints, tenons and ligaments.
My shoulders are popping badly and starting to impinge. This tells me its time for another deep tissue treatment..or deep torture treatment to knock out adhesions and realign the muscles. Even with deep stretching I still get adhesions in some of the tiny muscle groups in the shoulders and chest and these need to be manually removed. It's horribly painful but well worth it. I can feel the relief right after a treatment and it lasts for many months. My lifting performance often improves as well.
04-29-2005, 03:40 PM
Yes but, with cavitation, it takes about 25 minutes for the gas (C02) to redissolve into the synovial fluid. We are talking about a constant crackling whenever the joint moves.
bioman- by "adhesions" you mean when two muscles stick together? My shoulder also exhibits the crackling senstation, espeacially when doing mock arnold press type movements (with no weight).
04-29-2005, 03:56 PM
I have the same cracking noise in my ankle since I was a kid...I use now to drive my wife nuts....its funny...sitting and watching some TV and I'll just start cracking my ankles. Never caused any problems with my lifting though.
04-29-2005, 04:01 PM
A.R.T. has been nothing short of amazing for me and various injuries, both new and old. I had not bench pressed in abouta year (dislocated shoulder 3 yrs ago in car wreck) and was able to for the first time yesterday (even though not a big fan of flat bench) after a short month of this therapy. BTW, true ART therapy makes deep tissue seem like a cake walk....Originally Posted by bioman
04-29-2005, 05:23 PM
My deep tissue guy incorporates all forms of Rolfing and ART et cetera..plus he's a bit of a sadist. You almost have to be to wanna do that line of work lol. Having fingers ground through your armpit to reach the backside of the scapula..I think I saw God and he was mocking me.
Adhesions are basically small sections of muscle stuck together via some sort of calcium deposit. I imagine they form from a micro tear and just heal improperly. I seem to be incredibly prone to them..lucky me.
04-29-2005, 06:14 PM
You and me both, and for the love of God, that ****ing tingling sensation that overcomes your entire arm from the ART in the armpit (working to get a tempanic membrane(sp?) out) was the worst thing yet. I was squirming all over the bench. Did I mention the guy performing the ART is a former Mr. Cali and 5'10" 250 or soOriginally Posted by bioman
04-30-2005, 04:46 PM
One of my knees "pops."
It is called crepitus.
So far, it has not hindered me, nor does it hurt. I have noticed that when I added more treadmill cardio, fish oil, peanuts and sesathin it has been diminishing. I attribute that mainly to the oils (fish, nuts and sesathin). I also take gluco/chond/msm.
05-04-2005, 11:01 PM
Well said Whatevr
"Joints are the meeting points of two separate bones, held together and in place by connective tissues and ligaments. All of the joints in our bodies are surrounded by synovial fluid, a thick, clear liquid. When you stretch or bend your finger to pop the knuckle, you are causing the bones of the joint to pull apart. As they do, the connective tissue capsule that surrounds the joint is stretched. By stretching this capsule, you increase its volume. And as we know from chemistry class, with an increase in volume comes a decrease in pressure. So as the pressure of the synovial fluid drops, gases dissolved in the fluid become less soluble, forming bubbles through a process called cavitation. When the joint is stretched far enough, the pressure in the capsule drops so low that these bubbles burst, producing the pop that we associate with knuckle cracking."
Some peoples joints are just noisier than others. There is no harm with the noise itself so long as the joint is kept within its physiological ranges.
05-05-2005, 04:53 PM
Ive had problems with shoulder impingement in the past - so bad that I couldnt really lift heavy for almsot a year. I was able to fix the problem by doing rotator cuff exercises with a light weight (5lb plate) twice a week, as stretching my delts thouroughly every day. My kid brother had the same issue, but his advanced to the point where he needed ART therapy. The ART worked like a charm.
There are a lot of exercises that can speed the advance of shoulder impingement if your suseptible to it, even if you use perfect form. Military presses are a big one.
05-05-2005, 04:59 PM
05-05-2005, 05:21 PM
My brother went to Dave Kingwater, a Chairopractor in Utica, NY. Super-cool guy. He Bench Presses 610lbs, so you know he's got athletic performance in mind.
05-05-2005, 09:31 PM
I would prefer to live after the therapy if possible..lolOriginally Posted by BigVrunga
i might have to take a ride up there just to shake his hand
05-05-2005, 09:39 PM
Ive only met him a couple times, but he is a really cool guy. He was training my brother for a while and did wonders for his bench and squat.
05-05-2005, 11:08 PM
I've noticed this particulary more since I'm 2 wks through a SD cycle... Was actually getting ready to make a post about it? Do the joint support supps work worth a damned?
05-06-2005, 12:14 AM
05-06-2005, 12:36 AM
05-06-2005, 09:25 AM
High doses of EFA's, Glucosamine/MSM/Chondroitin always seem to help out dramatically when I take them consistently. CetylPure is another supplement that people swear by for healthy joint function, but Ive never tried it personally. Cissus Quadrangularis is also supposed to be really good, here's an excerpt from Bobo's write up on the stuff:
I did a CKD diet recently, which help me drop about 2% bodyfat over 6 weeks. While on it, I was ingesting ~220g of fats a day and a good portion of that was from Flax and Fish oil. My joints/tendons felt great the whole time I was on the CKD. Since then, I've been on a more traditional diet and havent been so strict about tracking calories. Sometimes I get my TBSP of fish oil everyday, sometimes I dont, etc. Along with this general 'slacking off' on my diet regimen some minor nagging joint/tendon problems have returned. So Im off to order me up some joint care supplementation!...However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and overtraining) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.
Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers around bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons. If this is the case it would be of great benefit to bodybuilders and athletes
05-06-2005, 10:19 AM
Thanks bro, informative post. I'm going to keep looking into it and if the problem doesn't subside withing a couple weeks or worsens I may do the same...
05-06-2005, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Max32
Right after the three sessions I've done my face has tingled intesely for about 20 minutes. My lips actually go numb and I can hardly talk..it's almost like the description of batrachotoxin poisoning from eating Japanese Fugu. There must be some bad **** stored up in my adhesions. lol
My ART guy is actually getting to be too small for me. I'm about 5'10", 180 and he's only 5'7" and 155 or so. If and when I grow some more he'll be unable to penetrate the deeper layers of fascia...he said Rolfers should ideally be heavier than the patient.
05-08-2005, 07:25 PM
I have the cracking joints issue as well, it doesn't hurt but I did speak to a highly regarded orthopedic surgeon about it a while ago. His comment was that the reason some peoples joints crack frequently like that is still somewhat of a medical mystery, however no adverse effects have been found to be related to the joint cracking that occurs in the absence of pain, and it was nothing to worry about.
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