LakeMountD
Doctor Science
I have read in a few different places to not take longer than 8 weeks without takeing a couple weeks off. anybody know about this or is this BS kinda like the creatine cycling thing was back in the day?
does tribulus really need to be cycled?
- Thread starter LakeMountD
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bizzare_777
New member
LakeMountD said:
I had this same question a few days ago on my mind. Rite now im using a tribulus from trueprotein.com and according to the owner @trueprotein, he claims that you do not need to cycle thier tribulus. By the way, what type of trib are you using rite now and are you noticing any effect thus far?? I added tribulus to my pct and im takin like 5 grams a day, supposedly this trib is extracted to 90% furostanol saponins.
Jay Mc
Member
Invalid Link Removed
Its my opinion and the opinion of most of the literature that trib is a waste of money. Even if it does 'work at higher dosages' as some will try and counter, the only viable mechanisms through which it would 'work' could be attained cheaper with other substances. Furthermore, the methods through which it most likely 'works' would make it undesireable for PCT.
Its my opinion and the opinion of most of the literature that trib is a waste of money. Even if it does 'work at higher dosages' as some will try and counter, the only viable mechanisms through which it would 'work' could be attained cheaper with other substances. Furthermore, the methods through which it most likely 'works' would make it undesireable for PCT.
rrgg
Well-known member
To answer your question, I thought it acted by stimulating LH which I thought was different from what DHEA does.
Like I said, I guess I'm misinformed.
I read your article, but I don't understand why you drew the conclusions you did. Again, I probably just don't know better.
The only study you mention that addresses LH is the 7th study. Do you happen to recall what concentration what used, because it says they were only given 1 gram. You describe this as "a heaping gram," as if it's a lot, but honestly I don't think so. I think I need 1.5-2g of tribulus at 15-20% proto. 1g is too little, and if it's typical low concentration tribulus, it's way too little. (Having said that-- maybe tribulus is more expensive that I originally thought.)
I have the same question about reference 6. What concentration and dosage did they use? If it was 1g again, then I might dismiss it, especially if the concentration was low, which I suspect it was.
The article mentions 4 studies related to libido. I'm not interested in that effect, but I also don't understand the conclusion you drew about this. All 4 show that it had an effect on libido but were inconclusive about the mechanism behind it. The studies say tribilus in fact did something, but the article implies tribulus did nothing. I mean, the studies were merely inconclusive about the mechanism. That doesn't mean nothing happened. "...whether this was a result of increased androgen levels was unclear."
Please don't take my disagreement as a flame. I just don't get it.
Like I said, I guess I'm misinformed.
I read your article, but I don't understand why you drew the conclusions you did. Again, I probably just don't know better.
The only study you mention that addresses LH is the 7th study. Do you happen to recall what concentration what used, because it says they were only given 1 gram. You describe this as "a heaping gram," as if it's a lot, but honestly I don't think so. I think I need 1.5-2g of tribulus at 15-20% proto. 1g is too little, and if it's typical low concentration tribulus, it's way too little. (Having said that-- maybe tribulus is more expensive that I originally thought.)
I have the same question about reference 6. What concentration and dosage did they use? If it was 1g again, then I might dismiss it, especially if the concentration was low, which I suspect it was.
The article mentions 4 studies related to libido. I'm not interested in that effect, but I also don't understand the conclusion you drew about this. All 4 show that it had an effect on libido but were inconclusive about the mechanism behind it. The studies say tribilus in fact did something, but the article implies tribulus did nothing. I mean, the studies were merely inconclusive about the mechanism. That doesn't mean nothing happened. "...whether this was a result of increased androgen levels was unclear."
Please don't take my disagreement as a flame. I just don't get it.
Jay Mc
Member
rrgg said:
Definately am not taking it that way. Discussion is healthy!
Ok. So here's my thoughts. The reason I included the libido thought was because there's just not that much info on trib and so I was trying ot ocnnect some dots. I thought tribs reported fitness results might also explain or be explained by its libido results. Trib DOES appear to increase the libido of lowered libido rats. That is very clear. Libidor is way complicated so I don't think increased LH is the key. My feeling from reading the texts seemed like the authors thought the effects of trib were independent of the HPG axis because even castrated rats showed increased libido. Obviously if trib was working on LH it would do fuckall in castrated animal.
The dossage can be debated for sure. You can say its too small a dose and I can't argue that w/ science. The purpose of that study was to test the sopharma claims and I'm 90% certain they used the same dossage as the sopharma research which is the only study that showed an effect on LH and like I've said I don't really consider that 'research'
Why I think DHEA might be an explanation. First, in the research that points to androgens they mean the weak androgen DHEA which could interact at the androgen receptor and does have an influence on libido. Trib having some action related to DHEA seems possible, increasing LH secretion seems pretty wishful. Intuitively anything w/ 'steroidal' actions feels like it should inhibit LH, antisteroids would intuitively increase LH. YOu could get creative and say that it short circuits the HPG axis but you'd have no science to back it up w/and have to contend w/the libido studies I mentioned and the effects seen there. I've seen the power of the placebo and thats why I'm skeptical about user feedback. Placebo is very powerful. I wanted trib to work, but I can't convince myself that it is good for bodybuilding.
Thoughts?
Funny Monkey
Board Supporter
I had a guy on another board to stop taking tribulus because it is suppresive????/ WTF?
I have never heard this any of you?
I have never heard this any of you?
Funny Monkey
Board Supporter
please explainJay Mc said:
rrgg
Well-known member
T-Bone - I don't think that's the consensus. What I've seen expressed on forums is that even those who think it's worthless for weight training still think it affects libido.
JayMc - OK, I think I see you're line of thinking, but in the end I feel those studies are mostly inconclusive, especially due to the dosing. I mean I even just saw some magazine ad where it said to take 2g per day, so I'm not the only one who thinks this about dosing.
JayMc - OK, I think I see you're line of thinking, but in the end I feel those studies are mostly inconclusive, especially due to the dosing. I mean I even just saw some magazine ad where it said to take 2g per day, so I'm not the only one who thinks this about dosing.
Jay Mc
Member
Funny Monkey said:
This is the really simple version. The Leydig cells in your testis make testosterone in response to LH released by the pituitary in response to GnRH fromt he hypothalamus. The hypothalamus decides how much GnRH to secrete based on blood levels of certain hormones. If you have a substance that acts like a steroid (like AAS) then it will interact at the hypothalamus and shut production down. In the case of AAS this is fine because you are pumping very potent androgens in so your body's production has little importance. In the case of trib the potency of any possible steroidal actions would be very low or everyone and their dog would be taking tribulus and getting yoked. Or, even worse case scenario, trib could aramotize to an estrogen which would also be suppressive to endogenous test production so you'd have higher estrogen lower test. Lots of things to consider.
Jay Mc
Member
rrgg said:
Libido is kinda like IBS. Strong psychological component so sometimes placebo effect can be as potent as pharm effects. Not saying this is the case but could be.
I can't argue about higher dosing because there is only anecdotal evidence supporting this. The problem with anecdotal evidence is the lack of control of other variables. I see so mnay guys 'product testing logs' and they start out saying I'm taking this and it works great. I'm also taking blah blah blah blah blah and increased calories a ton and am eating more protein so you've muddied the waters considerably. Obviously I'm not a fan of trib. Some people are tho so if it works for you, I'm obviously not going to tell you to stop taking it.
same_old
Banned
tribulus increases libido...for me. in a pronounced way. i will stare at fat girls if they are showing even a little skin, and in some cases do much more naughty things with girls i wouldnt normally. erections are always more frequent, also.
i have never noticed typical testosterone sides (acne, aggression, hypertrophy, mood elevation, etc)
i found that after a few weeks on trib the effect will lessen. cycling circumvents this eventuality.
i also have found that while on activaTe, trib does absolutely nothing. libido is already so stimulated...
i have never noticed typical testosterone sides (acne, aggression, hypertrophy, mood elevation, etc)
i found that after a few weeks on trib the effect will lessen. cycling circumvents this eventuality.
i also have found that while on activaTe, trib does absolutely nothing. libido is already so stimulated...