creatine in preworkout...why?

[datsthat]

Whats the point of creatine in preworkout? Is it just a filler? I prefer my preworkout to NOT have creatine. There are so many preworkouts with creatine.

The reason is because
(1) If I am taking creatine, I'd get it else where because I'd have to take preworkout every day in order to get my creatine. Sure I could not take creatine from my other source.
(2) If prefer not to take creatine (lets say because I wanted to take a break to see how my body responds without creatine), then I'd have to find a different preworkout

 

[ma70]

Whats the point of creatine in preworkout? Is it just a filler? I prefer my preworkout to NOT have creatine. There are so many preworkouts with creatine.

The reason is because
(1) If I am taking creatine, I'd get it else where because I'd have to take preworkout every day in order to get my creatine. Sure I could not take creatine from my other source.
(2) If prefer not to take creatine (lets say because I wanted to take a break to see how my body responds without creatine), then I'd have to find a different preworkout

I ask myself this question, as well as for other ingredients such as:

Betaine
Beta Alanine (I don't even like Beta Alanine either)

 

[datsthat]

I ask myself this question, as well as for other ingredients such as:

Betaine
Beta Alanine (I don't even like Beta Alanine either)

I can understand Beta Alanine because its supposed to increase your performance.


To me, creatine is not an acute ingredient/supplement. It takes a certain period of time before you can reap the benefits of it. Therefore I feel that the ingredients in a preworkout should ALL be fast acting and doesn't need to build up over time.

 

[ma70]

I can understand Beta Alanine because its supposed to increase your performance.


To me, creatine is not an acute ingredient/supplement. It takes a certain period of time before you can reap the benefits of it. Therefore I feel that the ingredients in a preworkout should ALL be fast acting and doesn't need to build up over time.

Beta Alanine works by saturation, does it not? I haven't bothered with it in awhile. (I don't like the tingles)

 

[datsthat]

Beta Alanine works by saturation, does it not? I haven't bothered with it in awhile. (I don't like the tingles)

To be honest, I am not exactly sure. I know I can feel the effects immediately. I don't care too much for tingles either.

 

[ma70]

To be honest, I am not exactly sure. I know I can feel the effects immediately. I don't care too much for tingles either.

Yeah, I mostly recall beta alanine works by saturation and not acutely. But either way, I think it should be excluded from pre-workouts anyway.

 

[Woody]

Beta Alanine has no acute effects minus tingles

 

[NewAgeMayan]

If you want to be dosing creatine, well, you obviously gotta take it some point, so why not with your pwo?

I assume many people just dont want to buy and dose creatine by itself, and prefer the convenience of an all-in-one.

 

[Audioph1x]

Some people take PWO for a while but there are very few PWOs that actually have a good dose of creatine. Most are in ****ing prop blends so who knows if it's even enough to do anything.

But I agree. Creatine is a staple but I want to know how much I'm getting in each scoop. If I forget to take my creatine, I don't wanna have to drink preworkout at night

 

[cubsfan815]

That's why I like products like CreMax XT and E9. I can stack them with my pre, then on days where I do not want/need stims, I can use them as the Pre.

Unflavored option is great to mix, although you can't go wrong with the Orange Dream CreMax XT.

 

[datsthat]

If you want to be dosing creatine, well, you obviously gotta take it some point, so why not with your pwo?

I assume many people just dont want to buy and dose creatine by itself, and prefer the convenience of an all-in-one.

what about days where you don't want to take your preworkout but you need creatine? most preworkout doesn't have the correct creatine dose (3-5g) in 1 scoop. So if you are a 1 scooper, then your stuck with underdosed creatine.



This is 1 of the reasons why I like hypermax XT...it contains what I want in a preworkout and doesn't contain creatine.

 

[NewAgeMayan]

what about days where you don't want to take your preworkout but you need creatine? most preworkout doesn't have the correct creatine dose (3-5g) in 1 scoop. So if you are a 1 scooper, then your stuck with underdosed creatine.



This is 1 of the reasons why I like hypermax XT...it contains what I want in a preworkout and doesn't contain creatine.

Yip, exactly, we have plenty of quality options available to us which cater to our particular supplemental needs.

...but to return to the original point of the thread, why would most mainstream manufacturers want to cater to what I would assume to be a minority segment of their target market? Again, there is nothing detrimental about having creatine in a pwo.

 

[VaughnTrue]

we offer pres both with and without creatine. max out = no creatine, hemavol = no creatine, Hemavo2 max = has creatine

 

[Adizzle1]

While i agree its really not needed in a pre workout and can easily be added for cheap if one wants to take it, I dont see pre workouts that do use creatine being all that bad considering studies have shown taking 2-3 grams 5 days a week is enough to maintain creatine saturation so considering the product contains atleast a couple grams and your taking it 5 times a week, then yes it should be effective!

 

[datsthat]

While i agree its really not needed in a pre workout and can easily be added for cheap if one wants to take it, I dont see pre workouts that do use creatine being all that bad considering studies have shown taking 2-3 grams 5 days a week is enough to maintain creatine saturation so considering the product contains atleast a couple grams and your taking it 5 times a week, then yes it should be effective!

The issue is that I don't know any preworkouts that you can get clinical dose by consuming 1 scoop. This forces the user to become a stim junkie

 

[VaughnTrue]

studies have shown 2,000mg/day is enough to keep saturation? do you have a link to that one? I haven't seen any which show it being that low, would be curious to read

 

[VaughnTrue]

The issue is that I don't know any preworkouts that you can get clinical dose by consuming 1 scoop. This forces the user to become a stim junkie

you could just use finish line as your pre-wo, and add a caffeine tab or two

 

[NewAgeMayan]

While i agree its really not needed in a pre workout and can easily be added for cheap if one wants to take it, I dont see pre workouts that do use creatine being all that bad considering studies have shown taking 2-3 grams 5 days a week is enough to maintain creatine saturation so considering the product contains atleast a couple grams and your taking it 5 times a week, then yes it should be effective!

Thats a good point. MrC and No_Hype have written at length regarding the benefits of dosing creatine only 4 or 5 days per week (mini cycling, in effect).

 

[datsthat]

you could just use finish line as your pre-wo, and add a caffeine tab or two

Very attractive profile...I can definitely get it on with this minus the creatine. Thank you.

 

[Adizzle1]

studies have shown 2,000mg/day is enough to keep saturation? do you have a link to that one? I haven't seen any which show it being that low, would be curious to read

I believe the study used 3g.

Thats a good point. MrC and No_Hype have written at length regarding the benefits of dosing creatine only 4 or 5 days per week (mini cycling, in effect).

Dont believe is seen this yet but there both very smart guys!

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Dont believe is seen this yet but there both very smart guys!

From memory it was largely to do with downregulation...cant remember all the details now, just the takeaway message.

 

[Matthew1237]

Depends - if it's 3-5 grams it's great way to get daily requirements of creatine. If it's only like 2 or less then yeah it's just a filler for them to say one more ingredient is in their kitchen sink product.

 

[GreekTheBrick]

Its mostly for marketing purposes. I dont do creatine at all but if I like a pre with creatine I dont mind.

 

[Woody]

It's a convenience thing, also.

The average market doesn't want to have to buy a PWO + Beta Alanine + Betaine + Creatine etc etc when one product could do it all.

Tbh, I generally mix all of that stuff with my PWO anyway bc it's easier to just take it all at once. Mixing it myself gives me proper doses though

 

[B5150]

Most overdose for maintenance. A 200lb male maintenance dose is about 2.5g. So those products with less than 5g are more than adequate.

Additionally it take quite a while to deplete so every day dosing is not really required.

When I do use it it's in my homebrew pre.

 

[Jiigzz]

From memory it was largely to do with downregulation...cant remember all the details now, just the takeaway message.

Down regulation of the creatine transporter when used daily iver a long period. mini cycles help overcome this

 

[SweetLou321]

Down regulation of the creatine transporter when used daily iver a long period. mini cycles help overcome this

Research on this? I was taught differently in school.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I think it's also a marketing thing - the more ingredients listed, the "better" the PrWO. If you took out all the "systemic saturation" stuff, your list would shrink.

While nothing is definite yet, there is also some research about not combining Creatine and Caffeine and also post workout Creatine being better - which also begs the question "Why Pre?" if that research pans out.

 

[Driven2lift]

Few points:

-creatine, TMG, BA all no acute benefit in a pre.

-all the above are great to have in the pre though, if that customer is otherwise uninformed and not supplementing much but that pre/whey/multi as most gym rats are
(Better to get it at all)

-BA is by saturation, and in study actually absorbed best and saturated longest when taken with meals, so in a pre is not generally ideal.

-as an informed supplementer, i hate seeing those in a pre.

-from a marketing perspective, people know those as the working ingredients and want to see them (unfortunate, but we need to just keep educating them)

 

[datsthat]

Few points:

-creatine, TMG, BA all no acute benefit in a pre.

-all the above are great to have in the pre though, if that customer is otherwise uninformed and not supplementing much but that pre/whey/multi as most gym rats are
(Better to get it at all)

-BA is by saturation, and in study actually absorbed best and saturated longest when taken with meals, so in a pre is not generally ideal.

-as an informed supplementer, i hate seeing those in a pre.

-from a marketing perspective, people know those as the working ingredients and want to see them (unfortunate, but we need to just keep educating them)

Great post and you answered my question. When I first started working out I wanted kitchen sink preworkout. So I will have to make my own or settle or make myself.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Great post and you answered my question. When I first started working out I wanted kitchen sink preworkout. So I will have to make my own or settle or make myself.

take a look at max out. literally every single ingredient is designed for acute effects.

 

[Gym God]

Few points:

-creatine, TMG, BA all no acute benefit in a pre.

-all the above are great to have in the pre though, if that customer is otherwise uninformed and not supplementing much but that pre/whey/multi as most gym rats are
(Better to get it at all)

-BA is by saturation, and in study actually absorbed best and saturated longest when taken with meals, so in a pre is not generally ideal.

-as an informed supplementer, i hate seeing those in a pre.

-from a marketing perspective, people know those as the working ingredients and want to see them (unfortunate, but we need to just keep educating them)

Agreed for the most part.

Often you'll find them in an all-in-one because much of the population has a hard enough time already taking a supplement just once a day. Companies can make sales because of this but also complete opposite - lose a sale too. Thankfully, there is variety. Effective researched-backed doses is what's important.

Acute response and well proven, caffeine is all we really need before our workout.

 

[MidwestBeast]

I've always just viewed creatine in a pre as kind of a "meh" *shoulder shrug* type thing.

That said, I've become super lazy and for a while haven't specifically taken creatine since it's been in my pre-workout combo and I take it 5 days a week.

There has definitely been some solid conversation in here and I can see why not having it in would be a good move (the only time I've personally wanted it to NOT be in my pre is when I'm using it for cardio in conjunction with CardioTryx, but that can be easily avoided by just taking caffeine or a fat burner for that pre instead).

Also have to say that iForce post concoction has a very nice profile on it -- you guys must've snuck that one out or I blinked too long or something, because I don't remember that one being released lol.

 

[ericool007]

Whats the point of creatine in preworkout? Is it just a filler? I prefer my preworkout to NOT have creatine. There are so many preworkouts with creatine.

The reason is because
(1) If I am taking creatine, I'd get it else where because I'd have to take preworkout every day in order to get my creatine. Sure I could not take creatine from my other source.
(2) If prefer not to take creatine (lets say because I wanted to take a break to see how my body responds without creatine), then I'd have to find a different preworkout

Because why not. a cheap very effective ergogenic aid i mean it makes perfect sense to me same with beta-alanine of course they need saturation but just dose it on off days or again away from your pre.