How suppressive would 1-andro be at 100mg per day?

[AaronG44]

Just curios. Seems to be so much conflicting info on 1 andro. Could someone just clarify if it is suppressive or not.

 

[yates84]

Any compound that interacts with the androgen receptor is going to be suppressive and need a pct. At 100mg you will only get the suppression and no gains. Run at 300mg and up for 8 weeks and do a proper pct with a serm afterwards.

 

[machinehead]

Yeah, it is not a 'how' but 'if' question. If it binds to the androgen receptors, it is suppressive. Thyroid and cortisol you can top off without causing suppression, testosterone you cannot.

 

[VaughnTrue]

lot of variables here to consider. from your personal chemistry, to how the compound is being administered to many many more.


I wouldn't worry about "how suppressive" it is, and run your cycle at the desired dosing, and follow it up by a good PCT

 

[kboxer7]

Just curios. Seems to be so much conflicting info on 1 andro. Could someone just clarify if it is suppressive or not.

1-andro is suppressive.

Taking 100mg would be pointless. It would likely be enough to suppress you to a degree, while at the same time not providing enough oomph to help you gain lean mass.

 

[ManuR]

Makes me wonder.. all the new products (yes, talking bout orals)
contain about 50-70mg/caps and its suggested use is 2x daily 1 cap..
means you get 100-140mg per day.
Is there such a huge difference if something like grapefruit extract or any other bioavailability enhancer is added?
because else the new products would be a huge scam?!

 

[earthgainz]

You nailed it!!! I am upset because I was running 4-dhea at 150mg with osta shred and saw little difference. Week four came around and i bumped the 4-dhea up to 300mg and i was in business. The LARGE majority of my gains came in those last two weeks and i realized it isn't necessarily a scam but going by the label is a frivolous endeavor. I was tempted to go 8 weeks but aborted because after all the headache i feel like going to a low dose of test stand alone would be way more worth it. No idea on the bioavailability claims they make but it certainly didn't seem to help. I was taking "super" 4-dhea sublingual tablets and still had to double the dose.

 

[white_lie]

Good ones like Super Mandro have a proper 110mg per cap and recommend 1 cap 3 times a day so you're getting a useful dosage. And you get a full 30 days supply at that dosage.
Like a lot of products, I wouldn't always go with what's on the label.

Back to the OP, it's not a question of how suppressive. Shut down is shutdown, it doesn't vary in amounts and even if you thought it did, the PCT should still be the same.

 

[De__eB]

What conflicting information? Why would you go by forum anecdote and broscience and not published data.

At 300mg/day it causes

~38% decrease in HDL
~35% increase in LDL
~100%-115% increase in AST.
~20% decrease in test.

Take it fully dosed and take a modest liver support and solid otc test booster, subchronic changes at those levels is of negligible real health risk.

 

[De__eB]

Good ones like Super Mandro have a proper 110mg per cap and recommend 1 cap 3 times a day so you're getting a useful dosage. And you get a full 30 days supply at that dosage.
Like a lot of products, I wouldn't always go with what's on the label.

Back to the OP, it's not a question of how suppressive. Shut down is shutdown, it doesn't vary in amounts and even if you thought it did, the PCT should still be the same.

First off shut down is not shut down, and your pct very well may vary depending on the type of steroid being used.

Secondly aren't experiencing shutdown with 1-DHEA. Shutdown implies the near complete cessation of your natural test production and is an entirely different animal than what you'll experience with 1-dhea

 

[VaughnTrue]

Makes me wonder.. all the new products (yes, talking bout orals)
contain about 50-70mg/caps and its suggested use is 2x daily 1 cap..
means you get 100-140mg per day.
Is there such a huge difference if something like grapefruit extract or any other bioavailability enhancer is added?
because else the new products would be a huge scam?!

You nailed it!!! I am upset because I was running 4-dhea at 150mg with osta shred and saw little difference. Week four came around and i bumped the 4-dhea up to 300mg and i was in business. The LARGE majority of my gains came in those last two weeks and i realized it isn't necessarily a scam but going by the label is a frivolous endeavor. I was tempted to go 8 weeks but aborted because after all the headache i feel like going to a low dose of test stand alone would be way more worth it. No idea on the bioavailability claims they make but it certainly didn't seem to help. I was taking "super" 4-dhea sublingual tablets and still had to double the dose.

Good ones like Super Mandro have a proper 110mg per cap and recommend 1 cap 3 times a day so you're getting a useful dosage. And you get a full 30 days supply at that dosage.
Like a lot of products, I wouldn't always go with what's on the label.

Back to the OP, it's not a question of how suppressive. Shut down is shutdown, it doesn't vary in amounts and even if you thought it did, the PCT should still be the same.

Keep in mind that the dosage of these compounds is needed to be high when taken on their own. The new products LG Sciences, iForce Nutrition, and even Blackstone labs are releasing with these compounds have a max reccomended dosage of 200mg/day, as they are paired with an incredibly powerful delivery system which VASTLY increases bioavailability and absorption. 100-200mg of the compounds with our delivery system will out perform 300mg of ANY other brands, without question.

 

[yates84]

Keep in mind that the dosage of these compounds is needed to be high when taken on their own. The new products LG Sciences, iForce Nutrition, and even Blackstone labs are releasing with these compounds have a max reccomended dosage of 200mg/day, as they are paired with an incredibly powerful delivery system which VASTLY increases bioavailability and absorption. 100-200mg of the compounds with our delivery system will out perform 300mg of ANY other brands, without question.

We will test that theory soon

 

[De__eB]

the amount of olympus labs reps continually making snide remarks in every single hitech umbrella thread is absolutely hysterical at this point.

They haven't yet adopted my approach of making snide remarks about everything and everyone and then nobody can call you out for targeting them.:dance:

 

[Admin]

the amount of olympus labs reps continually making snide remarks in every single hitech umbrella thread is absolutely hysterical at this point.

How is this a hitech thread? The thread is about 1 andro and suppression. Come on bro, I can hype my company just like you can.

Keep this kind of stuff out of here.

This is the last time I'm going to say it.

 

[yates84]

well your response in here, along with tons of other posts by olympus reps in every thread asking about compounds/products we produce is beyond coincidental.

You and the rest of the team continually throw snide remarks our way, when none are being given in return.

Yes, i can hype my companies up, but I have no need for hype. I am simply telling it as it is. If you don't want to believe me on it, maybe do some research into pharmaceutical liposomal delivery systems, and from there you should be able to deduce the effects this will have.

Remember, we ALREADY sell 1-andro and 4-andro without the delivery system, but we are changing out existing products to include it. This increases our cost significantly, yet the end user is getting the same price. If we're not making more profit on it(far less), yet making the change anyway, that should be pretty obvious that our testing has shown that it's a worth while change for us to make so our consumers can have significantly more effective cycles.

Awesome. Hope it works well for you guys. Oh, and fyi; our r&d has done a rediculous amount of research into different carriers and every other way to make the andros more effective. I think you will be suprised with what we have come up with. Ok, I'm obviously being a pain in your a$$ so I will leave you alone. Friends?

 

[yates84]

Keep this kind of stuff out of here.

This is the last time I'm going to say it.

My apologies Admin, my comment was not intended to offend anyone.

 

[VaughnTrue]

Awesome. Hope it works well for you guys. Oh, and fyi; our r&d has done a rediculous amount of research into different carriers and every other way to make the andros more effective. I think you will be suprised with what we have come up with. Ok, I'm obviously being a pain in your a$$ so I will leave you alone. Friends?

sure we can be friends, i've never had an issue with Olympus, and never spoken negatively about them.


as for the andros, we own the patents on each. any company releasing them without our legal consent is not going to be pleased with the outcome unfortunately.

 

[yates84]

sure we can be friends, i've never had an issue with Olympus, and never spoken negatively about them.

And I will do the same. See you around the forum!

 

[Admin]

They haven't yet adopted my approach of making snide remarks about everything and everyone and then nobody can call you out for targeting them.:dance:

The old "you can't call me a racist since I hate everyone" argument.

 

[De__eB]

The old "you can't call me a racist since I hate everyone" argument.

I mean the flaw in that argument is that you can still call the person a racist because they hate the human race.

 

[Admin]

I mean the flaw in that argument is that you can still call the person a racist because they hate the human race.

Unless they consider everyone less than human.

Come at me bro.

 

[De__eB]

Unless they consider everyone less than human.

Come at me bro.

Sounds like you're just mad I patented being human.

 

[ddfox]

Keep in mind that the dosage of these compounds is needed to be high when taken on their own. The new products LG Sciences, iForce Nutrition, and even Blackstone labs are releasing with these compounds have a max reccomended dosage of 200mg/day, as they are paired with an incredibly powerful delivery system which VASTLY increases bioavailability and absorption. 100-200mg of the compounds with our delivery system will out perform 300mg of ANY other brands, without question.

Any good threads I can follow yet for more info on these? Thx

 

[VaughnTrue]

we have some info in the company promo section up right now where we were looking for loggers...I'll look to get some more info posted ASAP

 

[The_Old_Guy]

How will these "Absorption Enhancers" compare with Tagamet or Transdermal?

 

[VaughnTrue]

How will these "Absorption Enhancers" compare with Tagamet or Transdermal?

the delivery system isn't an absorption enhancer, as it actually removes the possibility of absorption within the digestive system(a good thing). Tagamet is an anti-acid pill(from what I can find with a quick google search), and transdermal application has two major pitfalls in that #1 its not-DSHEA compliant, and #2 its beneficial action is limited to very few compounds(as most compound have a higher molecular weight than what can be used to absorb through skin).

This delivery system encases the hormone in a lipid bilayer that allows the hormone itself to be delivered unchanged directly to the blood stream, where it can then convert into the target hormone, and have direct interaction with the androgen receptors.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Tagamet is considered the king of off label CYP Inhibitors So this Lipid Bilayer - it avoids 1st Pass Liver metabolism?

 

[doogans]

the delivery system isn't an absorption enhancer, as it actually removes the possibility of absorption within the digestive system(a good thing). Tagamet is an anti-acid pill(from what I can find with a quick google search), and transdermal application has two major pitfalls in that #1 its not-DSHEA compliant, and #2 its beneficial action is limited to very few compounds(as most compound have a higher molecular weight than what can be used to absorb through skin).

This delivery system encases the hormone in a lipid bilayer that allows the hormone itself to be delivered unchanged directly to the blood stream, where it can then convert into the target hormone, and have direct interaction with the androgen receptors.

Didn't Forerunner Labs(AMS sister company) utilize this delivery method for a few years now?

 

[VaughnTrue]

Tagamet is considered the king of off label CYP Inhibitors So this Lipid Bilayer - it avoids 1st Pass Liver metabolism?

correct, this delivery system avoids 1st pass liver metabolism which is exactly what makes it so powerful.

Didn't Forerunner Labs(AMS sister company) utilize this delivery method for a few years now?

several companies have used cyclodextrin based delivery systems, however the technology used was inferior to what any pharmaceutical company utilizing liposomal delivery systems have used.

HiTech directly purchased an entire pharmaceutical company simply for the ability to get their mechanical technology that is needed to make a true and effective liposomal delivery system.

 

[Jiigzz]

correct, this delivery system avoids 1st pass liver metabolism which is exactly what makes it so powerful.



several companies have used cyclodextrin based delivery systems, however the technology used was inferior to what any pharmaceutical company utilizing liposomal delivery systems have used.

HiTech directly purchased an entire pharmaceutical company simply for the ability to get their mechanical technology that is needed to make a true and effective liposomal delivery system.

That's dedication. Pretty awesome if you ask me.

 

[Admin]

Sounds like you're just mad I patented being human.

No royalties in that.

 

[De__eB]

No royalties in that.

We'll see what my lawyer says about that!

 

[kboxer7]

What conflicting information? Why would you go by forum anecdote and broscience and not published data.

At 300mg/day it causes

~38% decrease in HDL
~35% increase in LDL
~100%-115% increase in AST.
~20% decrease in test.

Take it fully dosed and take a modest liver support and solid otc test booster, subchronic changes at those levels is of negligible real health risk.

Did you pull the 20% reduction in test from the West Texas A&M study? I remember seeing all of those other values reported but I don't recall them including "test values." Perhaps I overlooked it.

Thanks.

 

[De__eB]

Did you pull the 20% reduction in test from the West Texas A&M study? I remember seeing all of those other values reported but I don't recall them including "test values." Perhaps I overlooked it.

Thanks.

There was a second study that was presented on a poster at an endocrinology conference or something

I'll see if I can find it

 

[criticalbench]

This stuff sure is interesting to me!

 

[criticalbench]

What conflicting information? Why would you go by forum anecdote and broscience and not published data.

At 300mg/day it causes

~38% decrease in HDL
~35% increase in LDL
~100%-115% increase in AST.
~20% decrease in test.

Take it fully dosed and take a modest liver support and solid otc test booster, subchronic changes at those levels is of negligible real health risk.

So confused.. why would this selectively elevate AST? Wouldn't this alter blood chemistry of Alk Phos and GGT moreso? AST is one of the most least specific liver enzymes as it is found in so many organs, especially when assessing steroidal liver damage. Did you mean to say ALT?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

IIRC if it's the West Texas A&M Study, they used Finiflex and that contained CYP Inhibitors. They attributed (actually, not they, but that Doc over at Mind and Muscle) to the 6,7 DHB causing the liver to work harder, thus raising the values.

 

[De__eB]

So confused.. why would this selectively elevate AST? Wouldn't this alter blood chemistry of Alk Phos and GGT moreso? AST is one of the most least specific liver enzymes as it is found in so many organs, especially when assessing steroidal liver damage. Did you mean to say ALT?

This is from the full text of the study that was actually posted in a different journal than the masters degree poster presentation. Their numbers vary some from those that were published in the later presentation oddly enough, but the general theme remains, ALT was elevated as well. Noted though:

While neither the Placebo (P = 0.468) nor the Prohormone (P = 0.154) groups exhibited significant increases in their serum ALT concentrations over the course of the study, large interindividual variability in the Prohormone group at posttest likely hindered our ability to detect a difference, if one existed. The interaction effect for ALT, which trended toward a worse outcome in the Prohormone group, but also did not achieve statistical significance (P = 0.091), provides further evidence in support of this statement.