RXT and growth.. *pic inside*
- 04-20-2005, 05:10 AM
RXT and growth.. *pic inside*
I've been hearing alot of hype over at BB and a few other boards about RXT. Does RXT stunt/hinder growth in anyway? I've been hitting my chest pretty hard always (due to my gyno) but my main concern is to get the puffyness down (do you guys think that it'll really go down much?)
Picture of my gyno: http://www.templatesandtemplates.com/gyno/100_0480.jpg
Thanks in advance!
- 04-20-2005, 05:21 AM
Just deal with the gyno for a few more years, bro. Sorry...In the famous words of Bill Clinton "I feel your pain"
You're probaby gonna get flame for this, but the fact you asked first is better than not (although I'm sure you could have easily found similar threads had you searched).
RXT has been boosting the hell out of natural T levels, so your hormones will be all ****ed up. At your age, that's not good, and there is a legitimate concern for your epiphyseal plates closing.
04-22-2005, 02:48 AM
At what age should one be able to take rebound? It is possible that growth can be stunted at age 18?Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
04-22-2005, 03:11 AM
Growth can be stunted anytime prior to 21. The reason the age of 21 is usually recommended is that the majority of people stop growing at that age. Some grow afterwards but the percentage is small.
04-22-2005, 03:44 AM
04-22-2005, 03:57 AM
For the most part yes. I'm not sure about Rebound but substances such as Clomid can sometimes be considered a synthetic estrogen. Androgens don't cause the plates to close, Estrogens do.Originally Posted by showrmshldrs230
04-22-2005, 04:08 AM
04-22-2005, 04:15 AM
I think it may fall into the same category but hopefully someone else will jump in here before I talk straight outta my ass LOL
04-22-2005, 04:19 AM
04-22-2005, 08:47 AM
Have you been diagnosed as having gyno or are you just making an assumption from descriptions you have read on boards?
Sometimes "puffiness" is nothing more than stubborn fat surrounding the glands.
04-22-2005, 12:46 PM
"" Some grow afterwards but the percentage is small.""
I fall under that small percentage, which is why i am really glad until i waited until i was 30 before using any ph/as.
I grew 2 inches in height between the age of 22 and 27. no joke.
When i was 21 i was 6' 2" 3/4 now at 27+ i am 6' 4" 3/4
04-22-2005, 01:55 PM
I hope I am in that percentage... I'm 5'6.. I would love to be another 2 inches.
Damn.. I'm jealous.
04-22-2005, 02:05 PM
you and me both brother...you and me both. I'm a shade under 5'7" and would love to be 5'9" or 5'10".Originally Posted by JonesersRX7
04-22-2005, 02:51 PM
I have not been diagnosed with gyno. I originally thought it was gyno, but now I'm thinking it is just fat. But back to the question. How does Rebound stunt growth?
04-22-2005, 04:05 PM
He looks rather thin and his nips are pretty large- I don't think that this is pseudo gyno. I'm not a doctor though...Originally Posted by WhutEvr
04-22-2005, 05:09 PM
Deja,Originally Posted by Deja
You're 16 yrs old, the label on RXT states that you should be 18 yrs old before using the product.
I think you should hold off on this until you hear from the DS crew and get some kind of feedback from them (Sledge, Twin Peak, Strategos, Robboe).
People need to understand what they're getting into before they turn to supps as a first course of action.
Cmon bro, at your age just work out and bulk up - looks like you don't have gyno at all, just some fat on your chest, otherwise you're pretty lean.
04-22-2005, 05:16 PM
Where did you get this info? Thats not what my physiology text and endocrinology prof taught me. Growth plates aren't completely closes until 24 in many.Originally Posted by cry0smate
Original poster: you are far to young to start messing around with hormones and things that jack w/said levels. You have real gyno, you're probably going to need surgery to correct it.
04-22-2005, 06:22 PM
This topic has been discussed many times.Originally Posted by showrmshldrs230
To answer your question without getting too involved, RXT messes with hormone levels period, which at your age is not a good idea.
04-22-2005, 06:26 PM
I did a search but I couldn't find anything. I agree that it is not a good idea to mess around with hormones at age 19. Can you further enlighten me as to why it is bad?
04-22-2005, 06:39 PM
Cause your HPTA (your balls, basically) will be shot to ****, besides stunted growth, higher likelihood of cancer, and early balding to name a few sides.Originally Posted by showrmshldrs230
Sound like good times?
I find it hard to believe that you "did a search" and couldn't find anything about the negative effects of messing around with hormones at your age.
Read up, and watch what you post unless you want a ban from one of the mods as well.
04-22-2005, 07:01 PM
That does not sound like good times. I have stopped the use of this product. I will quote what is says on the label.Originally Posted by BigP0ppa3
Who can take it?
Rebound XT can be used by men above the age of 18 that are on or off a PH/AAS cycle or during PCT immediately after a cycle. It can be used by any man looking to boost testosterone levels without negatively affecting the body’s natural hormonal balance.
I should clarify that I did not use this product for PCT. I used to get rid of what I thought was pubertal gyno.
04-22-2005, 08:11 PM
It is my understanding (I just recently learned this) that estrogens increase IGF-1 circulation and production in the body which stunts growth.Originally Posted by Jay Mc
04-22-2005, 08:59 PM
This is part of it, but the total action is not fully understood. We do know that androgens, estrogens, and IGF-1 have something to do with it, but we're not certain the mode of action:Originally Posted by cry0smate
J Endocrinol. 2003 May;177(2):319-26."Sex steroids are required for a normal pubertal growth spurt and fusion of the human epiphyseal growth plate. "
Action of estradiol on epiphyseal growth plate chondrocytes."All effects were comparable in both male and female chondrocytes, in all cell subpopulations (maturation stages) and fetuses of varying gestational age. These findings indicate that at physiologic concentrations, the effects of E2 on fetal bovine growth plate chondrocyte appear to be indirect and independent of T3, suggesting that, in vivo, E2 acts in concert with other factors or hormones to induce fusion of the growth plate."
Calcif Tissue Int. 2004 Sep;75(3):214-24
"Loss of estrogens or androgens increases the rate of bone remodeling by removing restraining effects on osteoblastogenesis and osteoclastogenesis, and also causes a focal imbalance between resorption and formation by prolonging the lifespan of osteoclasts and shortening the lifespan of osteoblasts. Conversely, androgens, as well as estrogens, maintain cancellous bone mass and integrity, regardless of age or sex. Although androgens, via the androgen receptor (AR), and estrogens, via the estrogen receptors (ERs), can exert these effects, their relative contribution remains uncertain. "
ANDROGENS AND BONE
Endocr Rev. 2004 Jun;25(3):389-425.
So basically you're playing with fire if you tinker with your hormones while you're still young. Who knows, maybe it won't do anything. But if you feel short when you grow up, you'd hate to think you could have been taller if only you hadn't used something that altered your hormone levels.
04-22-2005, 09:05 PM
04-23-2005, 03:21 PM
04-23-2005, 05:09 PM
Just to clarify I know estrogen affects growth plates but I was concerned that it was implied that test didn't. I imagine the response in males is different than in females for obvious reasons.Originally Posted by cry0smate
04-23-2005, 05:45 PM
Actually they have not been able to isolate a difference in the mode of action of growth plate closure in the sexes:
Calcif Tissue Int. 2004 Sep;75(3):214-24By itself, E2 stimulated maturation of all subpopulations only in pharmacologic doses (10(-7) M). Physiologic E2 concentrations were no different than negative controls treated with ITS (insulin, transferrin, and selenite). Regardless of E2 concentrations, the addition of E2 to 1 nM T3 did not appreciably affect the response to T3 alone, which stimulates maturation of the phenotype. All effects were comparable in both male and female chondrocytes, in all cell subpopulations (maturation stages) and fetuses of varying gestational age.
This is a very recent study. It appears chondrocytes conversion to calcified bone material works the same for both sexes.
Further, we know estrogen is important, but it's more of a signaler:
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2001 Jun 5;98(12):6871-6. Epub 2001 May 29....Estrogen does not induce growth plate ossification directly; instead, estrogen accelerates the programmed senescence of the growth plate, thus causing earlier proliferative exhaustion and consequently earlier fusion.
This study is 4 years old, and was performed on rabbits. We have since begun to develop working theories on exactly what other things are present to CAUSE the rapid closure. If estrogen were the only casuative factor, then every girl would stop growing at puberty, and this is not how it works.
HOWEVER-->while the process is the same for male and female, our production of these hormones is different. About five years ago a paper was published entitled:
Estrogen, bone growth and sex: a sea change in conventional wisdom
This is significant, b/c it studied a HUMAN male with "a homozygous mutation in the estrogen receptor alpha gene, which results in estrogen-receptor alpha resistance, and of males and females with autosomal recessive mutations in the CYP19 gene encoding aromatase, which leads to a failure to synthesize estrogens."
The results are fascinating:
J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab. 2000;13 Suppl 6:1439-55.For example, in the male, estrogen (not androgen) derived from direct testicular secretion (approximately 20%) and from extragonadal aromatization of testosterone and androstenedione (approximately 80%), is the critical sex hormone in the pubertal growth spurt, skeletal maturation, accrual of peak bone mass, and the maintenance of bone mass in the adult. Estrogen stimulates chondrogenesis in the epiphyseal growth plate increasing pubertal linear growth. At puberty, estrogen promotes skeletal maturation and the gradual, progressive closure of the epiphyseal growth plate, possibly as a consequence of both estrogen-induced vascular and osteoblastic invasion and the termination of chondrogenesis. In addition, during puberty and into the third decade, estrogen has an anabolic effect on the osteoblast and an apoptotic effect on the osteoclast, increasing bone mineral acquisition in axial and appendicular bone. In the adult, estrogen is important in maintaining the constancy of bone mass through its effects on remodeling and bone turnover. Establishing a role for estrogen does not exclude a direct action of testosterone on bone in the human male (especially on cortical bone), but this action is less characterized than thought in the past and is relatively minor in comparison with the major effect of estrogen in the male.
So we know estrogen is very important, but we know other factors are at work, too.
Bottom line--it's a bad idea to play around with your hormones while you're growing.
04-23-2005, 08:04 PM
05-01-2005, 10:47 PM
06-20-2005, 02:19 AM
if your growth plates close will you just stop growing in height and width or will you not get a beard not look older etc...
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