Megadoing Vitamin C

[hypo]

Uh oh, I feel a cold coming on. Luckily, I have a new bottle of 250 1g Vitamin C tabs. Does anyone here advocate mega dosing of vitamin C and get results from it? Normally I take 2 grams a day, how much would I need to take to prevent this cold?

Thanks!

Brian

 

[Loki]

If you start hitting more than 5g/day orally, you're going to start having serious gastrointenstinal problems. I personally don't think you can do much for your immune system above 3g/day; I mean, if it's viral, more anti-oxidant protection (up to the point of potentially becoming pro-oxidant) can only do so much. Vitamin C is the bomb and the shiznit, but if you're really sick, you might want to look into remedies above and beyond just ascorbic acid.

 

[hypo]

If there's a cure for the common cold, let me know!

Seriously though, what are some things you do to prevent sickness? This just started today and I hate being sick, especially when trying to bulk. I did a little more research and it was suggested by someone else on the board to take anywhere from 1-4g every hour!

Regardless, I'm going to be drinking a lot of water and adding a few hours of sleep to my schedule.

 

[WYD02]

5G per day really isn't that much. Most people I know who advocate mega dosing (including myself) will do a gram each hour. Just keep tabs on how you feel from it. If you start to get gassy (ie farting alot) or otherwise have loose stools, you're reaching or have exceed saturation and it's time to adjust

 

[jminis]

Honestly easiest way to avoid getting sick is a healthy diet and wash your hands as often as possible.

 

[gobig1]

Honestly easiest way to avoid getting sick is a healthy diet and wash your hands as often as possible.

While that is true, I don't think that is what Hypo is inferring to. As we know Doctors don't treat "healthy" people, their goal is to get people back to a "healthy" state, I think Hypo is inferring how to get the best benefits from megadosing Vit C. One of the best benefits of this is cardiovascular health, i.e., the lining of the veins and arteries stay supple and healthy with large doses of Vit C, and I for one take 4gms twice daily when I feel a "bug" coming on along with 2-300mgs Zinc twice daily, I have been cold/flu free for 3+ years since starting this regimen, I need to add that I also wash my hands and use the hand sanitizer stuff many times throughout the day, which definitely helps.

 

[natedogg]

Honestly easiest way to avoid getting sick is a healthy diet and wash your hands as often as possible.

Or live in a cave with absolutely no human contact whatsoever.

 

[VALIS]

When I start to feel a cold coming on I increase the vitamin C dosage to about 2g/day and take a massive dose of 3mg garlic oil capsules. You can also eat a couple of raw cloves too if you can stomach the taste. You stink like hell, but I swear by the stuff. (taking it at night solves half the problem though) It's a pretty strong natural antibiotic. Just make sure you get the kind that is NOT deodorized.

 

[intv]

I start megadosing when my immediate family or a large number of coworkers start getting sick. I take 6-8gm/Day, and take zinc and mag nightly. I've missed out on the past three 'epidemics' of colds. The last round got everyone in my family and almost 1/2 of my office, but I remained cold free. When everyone's well, again, I taper back down to 1 gm/Day. I've taken up to 3gm at once with no GI disturbance, but usually stick to 1gm doses.

 

[hypo]

Well I've been taking about a gram an hour and have only very mild GI upset, not enough to even bother me. Considering it's my first day taking it like this I think that's pretty good. I'm pretty interested to see if the megadosing theory works for me.

 

[italionstallion]

try some echinacea

 

[DobermanXXL]

echiniacea and aireborne!

 

[natedogg]

echiniacea and aireborne!

Airborne along with Cold-eeze has worked for me in the past.

 

[Loki]

If you really want badass immune support, just make a little IP6/inositol mixture and take a few grams each day. The difference in immune function is pretty significant.

 

[chasec]

5G per day really isn't that much. Most people I know who advocate mega dosing (including myself) will do a gram each hour. Just keep tabs on how you feel from it. If you start to get gassy (ie farting alot) or otherwise have loose stools, you're reaching or have exceed saturation and it's time to adjust

vitamin c is toxic at prolonged dosage over 3g/day. symptoms of toxicity are nausea, abdominal cramps, diarrhea; headache, fatigue, insomnia, etc.

the RDI for vit.c is only 75mg/day...

 

[jminis]

Or live in a cave with absolutely no human contact whatsoever.

LOL there ya go, I usually stick with Vitamin C and zinc when I feel things coming on sometimes it helps sometime it doesn't. For me I'm around a lot of different people all day so getting sick is not hard for me. It sucks but what are ya gonna do.

 

[size]

Poliquin uses an IV of a vit C solution. It is rather interesting, he calls it Vitamin C Therapy.

 

[g4ud1n]

vitamin c is toxic at prolonged dosage over 3g/day. symptoms of toxicity are nausea, abdominal cramps, diarrhea; headache, fatigue, insomnia, etc.

the RDI for vit.c is only 75mg/day...

The RDI is the amount you need only so you are not deficient. 75mg is no where close to the optimal amount the body needs.

 

[BodyWizard]

vitamin c is toxic at prolonged dosage over 3g/day. symptoms of toxicity are nausea, abdominal cramps, diarrhea; headache, fatigue, insomnia, etc.

I'm sure you have citations to bolster such an unusual claim...given that this is counter to EVERYTHING I've read in the last 30 years on the subject - or do you mean cocaine?

 

[BodyWizard]

The RDI is the amount you need only so you are not deficient. 75mg is no where close to the optimal amount the body needs.

The RDI for vitamin C (IIRC) is the amount needed to prevent scurvy, plus a slight margin.

 

[Loki]

I'm sure you have citations to bolster such an unusual claim...given that this is counter to EVERYTHING I've read in the last 30 years on the subject - or do you mean cocaine?

If anyone finds themselves getting abdominal cramps or diahrrea from their blow, it's definitely time to find a new dealer.

On a related note, I think we need to differentiate between "toxic" and "pro-oxidant". Chasec is most definitely correct if he means the latter, but I would contest the former. Ascorbic acid is not going to be toxic to humans taking 3-4g/day (although even still I do think such a high level of consumption is rather unnecessary; 2g/day seems to be about where it's at orally).

And while I'm here: just because Polaquin does something, doesn't mean you should try it at home.

 

[size]

And while I'm here: just because Polaquin does something, doesn't mean you should try it at home.

Wow, thanks. Are you sure though? So you think self administered home IV's are a bad idea? :hammer:

 

[hypo]

A bit of an update- I'm still taking about a gram an hour and I actually feel a lot better. A little case of the sniffles still remains, but it is a far cry from the congestion, sneezing, couging, etc of last night.

And I remember reading somewhere that IV vitamin C is actually very effective. I'll try to find it when i have some spare time.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Echinanea, Vitamin C, Zinc works pretty well...

Poliquin is surely an interesting fellow. I read articles on his website sometimes.

 

[hypo]

Study summary from Pubmed:

"High-dose intravenous vitamin C is not associated with an increase of pro-oxidative biomarkers.

Muhlhofer A, Mrosek S, Schlegel B, Trommer W, Rozario F, Bohles H, Schremmer D, Zoller WG, Biesalski HK.

Division of Gastroenterology at Katharinenhospital, Stuttgart, Germany.

OBJECTIVE: High-dose vitamin C therapy might mediate beneficial clinical effects by counteracting reactive oxygen species. However, concerns are raised whether this approach might provoke diametrical (ie pro-oxidative) effects. The objective was to determine ascorbyl free radical (AFR) concentrations and potential variables of pro-oxidative damage. DESIGN: Crossover study; six healthy males received daily infusions of 750 or 7500 mg vitamin C for six consecutive days. Fasting concentrations of vitamin C and AFR were determined daily. On day 1, concentrations of vitamin C and AFR were measured at 0.25, 0.5, 1, 2, 4 and 8 h post infusion. Plasma concentrations of thiobarbituric acid-reactive substances (TBARS), tocopherol and urine concentrations of 8-oxoguanosine were determined on days 1 and 6. RESULTS: Kinetic studies on day 1 showed that concentrations of vitamin C and AFR displayed parallel dose- and time-dependent kinetics and elimination was highly efficient. Vitamin C and AFR fasting concentrations on days 2-6 were slightly above the baseline, suggesting new, stable steady states. TBARS decreased in both groups, whereas tocopherol and 8-oxoguanosine concentrations remained unchanged. CONCLUSION: Kinetics of AFR largely depend on plasma vitamin C concentrations and AFR is eliminated efficiently. Our data do not support induction of pro-oxidative effects in healthy volunteers given intravenous high-dose vitamin C. SPONSORSHIP: Pascoe Pharmazeutische Praparate GmbH, Giessen, Germany.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 15054428 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"



This is for IV Vitamin C, but it does say high doses (7.5g IV per day, which would be a lot more orally) don't cause pro-oxidative effects. Or are they talking about something different than we are?

 

[chasec]

The RDI is the amount you need only so you are not deficient. 75mg is no where close to the optimal amount the body needs.

really, that's interesting

[size=-1]American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 45, 693-703, Copyright © 1987 by The American Society for Clinical Nutrition, Inc [/size]

ORIGINAL RESEARCH COMMUNICATIONS

Recommended dietary intakes (RDI) of vitamin C in humans



JA Olson and RE Hodges
[size=-1][/size]Vitamin C is unevenly distributed throughout all body cells and fluids. A total-body pool of 900 mg (5.11 mmol) in an adult male meets the following criteria of a satisfactory vitamin C status: it is threefold higher than one that prevents scurvy, no known health advantages accrue at higher pool sizes, absorption efficiency is high and urinary loss low at appropriate intakes, and a 1-mo reserve allows for periods of low intake or stress. To maintain a suitable body pool in healthy 76-kg men and 62-kg women requires daily intakes (RDI) of 40 mg (227 mumol) and 30 mg (170 mumol), respectively. Reasons for not increasing RDI values to enhance iron absorption and to prevent nitrosamine formation are given. The specific association of normal intakes of dietary vitamin C with cancer is very weak and not quantifiable. Advisable intakes for children, pregnant and lactating women, and the elderly are considered. The present recommendations are in better accord with current information than are the 1980 RDA values.

 

[chasec]

I'm sure you have citations to bolster such an unusual claim...given that this is counter to EVERYTHING I've read in the last 30 years on the subject - or do you mean cocaine?

no jackass; i don't mean cocaine.

http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/7/296/0.pdf

http://www.nap.edu/books/0309069351/html/95.html

Vitamin C functions physiologically as a water-soluble antioxidant by virtue of its high reducing power. It is a cofactor for enzymes involved in the biosynthesis of collagen, carnitine, and neurotransmitters in vitro, and it can quench a variety of reactive oxygen species and reactive nitrogen species in aqueous environments. Evidence for in vivo antioxidant functions of ascorbate include the scavenging of reactive oxidants in activated leukocytes, lung, and gastric mucosa, and diminished lipid peroxidation as measured by urinary isoprostane excretion. To provide antioxidant protection, a Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) of 90 mg/day for adult men and 75 mg/day for adult women is set based on the vitamin C intake to maintain near-maximal neutrophil concentration with minimal urinary excretion of ascorbate. Because smoking increases oxidative stress and metabolic turnover of vitamin C, the requirement for smokers is increased by 35 mg/day. Estimates of median dietary intakes of vitamin C for adults are 102 mg/day and 72 mg/day in the United States and Canada, respectively. The Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for adults is set at 2 g/day; the adverse effects upon which the UL is based are osmotic diarrhea and gastrointestinal disturbances.

 

[chasec]

Study summary from Pubmed:

but it does say high doses (7.5g IV per day, which would be a lot more orally) don't cause pro-oxidative effects. Or are they talking about something different than we are?

evidence it is a pro-oxidive

Sakagami H, et al, Apoptosis-inducing activity of vitamin C and vitamin K. Cell. Mol. Biol. (Noisy-le-grand) 2000 / 46 (1) / 129-143.

 

[chasec]

too much vitamin C decreases vitamin B12 level
Simon, J.A. et al, Relation of serum ascorbic acid to serum vitamin B12, serum ferritin ,and kidney stones in the US adults. Arch.Intern. Med. 1999 / 159 (6) / 619-624. , Herbert, V. ,Staging vitamin B-12 (cobalamin) status in vegetarian. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 1994 / 59 (5 suppl.) / 1213S-1222S.


increases activation of mutagenic HCA from food.
Hsieh, S.E. et al, The effect of vitamin C on N-acetyltransferase activity in Klebsiella pneumonia. Food and Chemical Toxicology 1997 / 35 (12) / 1151-1157.

Vitamin C can enhance tumors
Agus, D.B. et al, Stromal cell oxidation : a mechanism by which tumors obtain vitamin C. Cancer Research 1999 / 59 (18) / 4555-4558.


increases oxidative free iron level
Attiek, Z.K. et al, Ceruloplasmin ferroxidase activity stimulates cellular iron uptake by a trivalent cation-specific transport mechanism. J.Biol.Chem. 1999 / 274 (2) / 1116-1123. , Simon, J.A. et al, Relation of serum ascorbic acid to serum vitamin B12, serum ferritin ,and kidney stones in the US adults. Arch.Intern. Med. 1999 / 159 (6) / 619-624. , Palmer, A.M. et al, Dietary antioxydant supplementation reduces lipid peroxidation but impairs vascular function in small mesenteric arteries of the sptreptozotocin-diabetic rat. Diabetologia 1998 / 42 (2) / 148-156. , Rehman, A. et al, The effects of iron and vitamin C co-supplementation on oxidative damage to DNA in healthy volunteers. Biochem. Biophys. Res. Commun. 1998 / 246 (1) / 293-298. , Podmore, I.D. et al, Vitamin C exhibits pro-oxidant properties. Nature 1998 / 392 (6676) / 559. , Wienk, K.J. et al, Dietary ascorbic acid raises iron absorption in anaemic rats through enhancing mucosal iron uptake independent of iron solubility in the digesta. Br. J. Nutr. 1997 / 77 (1) / 123-131. , Herbert, V. et al, Vitamine C-driven free radical generation from iron. Journal of Nutrition 1996 / 126 / 1213-1220.





now, anyone else want to advocate 24g/day? don't be crazy. a simple once daily multi provides all you need. there is sporadic evidence to support 2g/day helps fight off colds; other than that your wasting time/money

 

[BodyWizard]

no jackass; i don't mean cocaine.

lighten up, dude - it was a joke!

Thanks for the references - I'll look 'em over.

 

[chasec]

sorry, been a long, long, day.

 

[BodyWizard]

it happens - today's been long enough for me, too.

 

[pu12en12g]

Well I've been taking about a gram an hour and have only very mild GI upset, not enough to even bother me. Considering it's my first day taking it like this I think that's pretty good. I'm pretty interested to see if the megadosing theory works for me.

Any updates ?

 

[arlowf]

If anyone finds themselves getting abdominal cramps or diahrrea from their blow, it's definitely time to find a new dealer.

Loki, is there a thread in which you explain why/how you justify the (your?) use of cocaine? ANd what the hell is lokaine?

 

[WYD02]

I missed any mention of cocaine use. Although cocaine is clearly a massive stimulant and promotes fat loss...this type of discussion or use will not be tolerated here. If you want to be a junky, go make a commercial about how you never planned to grow up to be one. Anyone suggesting or promoting use of illegal and obviously highly addictive and harmful drugs will be removed from this board.