4-dhea conversion rate

[goodvibes]

Did a forum search but didn't find any definite answer to my question. Does anyone knw the potential conversion rate of 4dhea to test? Didn't dig deep enough but from all the broscience I see online it's between 15-25%. If someone have a better source please link.

 

[goodvibes]

Bumping this thread because there's an insane amount of 4-dhea products coming into the market now. I'm hoping someone out there with knowledge can answer this basic question everyone should be asking.

 

[Methylated88]

I believe it is something like 15%.

 

[goodvibes]

I believe it is something like 15%.

Thx but the 15% conversion rate is for 4ad which is one step away from test. Our new age 4ad is actually 4dhea which is two steps away.

Unfortunately the companies or reps probably dnt knw how much really converts now even with best case possible scenario

 

[Methylated88]

I had a feeling I had that mixed up. Thank you for the clarification. And as far as finding it out,, No clue where to start, beyond google ha! You trying to use it in place of test itself perhaps?

 

[goodvibes]

I did but from experience I have to run above 400mg/day to feel normal when shutdown.

I have a second choice which is trest and I like that better.

 

[IronAddiction]

Trest is wayyyy better

 

[Methylated88]

Trest is wayyyy better

You guys got me itching to try it!!

 

[goodvibes]

You guys got me itching to try it!!

That's an itch that's hard to scratch

 

[IronAddiction]

Definitely goodvibes, extremely hard to scratch

 

[DonnieM]

Any more info on this?
I'm planning a future cycle and calculating of a roughly 10% conversion rate of the 4-dhea/andro supps. 400mg a day would then give about 40mg x 7 = 280mg a week. Thats like a starter inject cycle.
Btw, would you rec Trest if I can find it? Heard good stuff but what about sides/harshness?

 

[IronAddiction]

depends on which form of trest DonnieM, IM,oral,TD? Estr-sides are very prevalent as it converts to methyl-estr. prolactin also something to watch if you are def prone to it as well. trest is very powerful for strength/size. it is def not a beginner compound by any means at all.

 

[BCseacow83]

PA used to say the conversion rate is almost meaningless to try and ascertain. I believe he said that it's not a one way deal and these can convert back and forth. Also any conversion rate would have to take into consideration absorption rate. If say only 10% of an oral dose makes it into circulation then the conversion would have to be based on that amount not what you took by pill. I believe the most recent study used 400mg/day. I would consider that a starting point. Also consider we used to take up to a gram a day of OG 4ad and that was one step closer.

That being said I like 4-dhea and with more companies bringing it to market we will finally see properly dosed products, hopefully.

 

[goodvibes]

Any more info on this?
I'm planning a future cycle and calculating of a roughly 10% conversion rate of the 4-dhea/andro supps. 400mg a day would then give about 40mg x 7 = 280mg a week. Thats like a starter inject cycle.
Btw, would you rec Trest if I can find it? Heard good stuff but what about sides/harshness?

Trest is a better base than 4dhea for me. If you dnt have a choice I did find a good 4dhea based product that's sublingual, dosed high too. PM me I can share the info.

 

[goodvibes]

PA used to say the conversion rate is almost meaningless to try and ascertain. I believe he said that it's not a one way deal and these can convert back and forth. Also any conversion rate would have to take into consideration absorption rate. If say only 10% of an oral dose makes it into circulation then the conversion would have to be based on that amount not what you took by pill. I believe the most recent study used 400mg/day. I would consider that a starting point. Also consider we used to take up to a gram a day of OG 4ad and that was one step closer.

That being said I like 4-dhea and with more companies bringing it to market we will finally see properly dosed products, hopefully.

I have done a few research and it seems like it does vary from user to user. Like you said though, luckily the market is growing and so are the proper doses.

 

[Blergs]

Any more info on this?
I'm planning a future cycle and calculating of a roughly 10% conversion rate of the 4-dhea/andro supps. 400mg a day would then give about 40mg x 7 = 280mg a week. Thats like a starter inject cycle.
Btw, would you rec Trest if I can find it? Heard good stuff but what about sides/harshness?

more like just over HRT.
i wouldent bother. other than trying to use it as test base while on other orals that shut down your production

 

[DonnieM]

more like just over HRT.
i wouldent bother. other than trying to use it as test base while on other orals that shut down your production

I though HRT/TRT/Normal test levels are around 100mg/week? 250mg+ is more than 2.5 times natural levels.

 

[IronAddiction]

normal to high 100-175mg/wk gotta remember that oral absorption is far less again. mg-conversion rate- oral bio-availability

 

[DonnieM]

normal to high 100-175mg/wk gotta remember that oral absorption is far less again. mg-conversion rate- oral bio-availability

Yeah, ok. So maybe in the end we're talking about maybe 5-10% of the original dose becoming testo in body?

 

[IronAddiction]

probably

 

[rugger48]

Jesus people just do the real thing.

 

[IronAddiction]

Jesus people just do the real thing.

Trt

 

[BCseacow83]

Not everyone wants to take the risk, big or small some people simply do not want to take a risk at all legally.

 

[Methylated88]

Not everyone wants to take the risk, big or small some people simply do not want to take a risk at all legally.

If you can get to the same goal using a legal route, why not? Just do the research and handle it properly.

 

[kisaj]

I figured by now, no one actually knows a conversion rate as it will be different for everyone. There are arbitrary numbers that you can find with some research, but they aren't anything that I would think could be considered accurate for everyone. If you aren't going to go with the real thing, then you kind of need to take what you get and roll the dice.

 

[BCseacow83]

You could always dose a certain amount and get labs drawn. That would really be the only way to know for sure where it puts you.

 

[Methylated88]

I figured by now, no one actually knows a conversion rate as it will be different for everyone. There are arbitrary numbers that you can find with some research, but they aren't anything that I would think could be considered accurate for everyone. If you aren't going to go with the real thing, then you kind of need to take what you get and roll the dice.

I can agree with this.

 

[B5150]

Not everyone wants to take the risk, big or small some people simply do not want to take a risk at all legally.

yes but all you are risking using these bogus poorly orally available two step conversions is high aromatization and shut down. Just save your money or better yet spend it on a trainer/nutritionist if you don't have a pair enough to source.

The supplement market is so gullible it saddens me just a bit less than the industry.

 

[B5150]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10601178/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10997957/?i=2&from=/10601178/related

Just a couple in a two minute search...

 

[goodvibes]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10601178/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10997957/?i=2&from=/10601178/related

Just a couple in a two minute search...

That's DHEA, not 4-DHEA.

yes but all you are risking using these bogus poorly orally available two step conversions is high aromatization and shut down. Just save your money or better yet spend it on a trainer/nutritionist if you don't have a pair enough to source.

The supplement market is so gullible it saddens me just a bit less than the industry.

There are better absorption methodology now and I have tried these products and they do work.

Not everyone will go past the legal boundaries and I'm one of them. Why do we need 4ad/4dhea? It's just to mitigate low test symptoms that is a result of other anabolic agents we use. Pin if you want that's none of our business. You need to understand everyone has a different reason, we dnt need to explain every details to you.

 

[B5150]

No one asked you to explain.

I stand by my points on efficacy until someone shows me oral two step conversions elevating testosterone to even upper levels with blood work.

Best of luck to you.

 

[goodvibes]

No one asked you to explain

Very mature

 

[B5150]

Very mature

Really. It was a simple answer is all.

 

[goodvibes]

And no I dnt need luck. I'm good on the gains dept. I'm sure I know what I'm doing.

 

[B5150]

And no I dnt need luck. I'm good on the gains dept. I'm sure I know what I'm doing.

OK. I'll withdraw my "politely-withdrawing-myself-from-the-conversation-best-of-luck" since you're "good on gains"...

:surrendering to the gains:

Will best regards suffice?

 

[jbryand101b]

Dunn is correct.

Simply put.

Conversion rates from Patrick Arnold's patent on 4-androstenediol are from "in vitro" data.
This basically means studied from a Petri dish.

You (original poster) are asking for data on "in vivo" (basically, in the body) conversion.
This is impossible to determine, or even guess. Don't even try, just take it and keep increasing dosage until your satisfied with effects.
/end thread question.

 

[jbryand101b]

4-androstenediol felt similar to a low dosed test e cycle..... When dosing 1,000mg each day....200mg-400mg every 4hrs.

4-dhea needs to be dosed high.

 

[goodvibes]

4-androstenediol felt similar to a low dosed test e cycle..... When dosing 1,000mg each day....200mg-400mg every 4hrs.

4-dhea needs to be dosed high.

Dunn is correct.

Simply put.

Conversion rates from Patrick Arnold's patent on 4-androstenediol are from "in vitro" data.
This basically means studied from a Petri dish.

You (original poster) are asking for data on "in vivo" (basically, in the body) conversion.
This is impossible to determine, or even guess. Don't even try, just take it and keep increasing dosage until your satisfied with effects.
/end thread question.

Thanks but I already posted that conversion rates can vary from one user to another. Read post #15. Also, Dunn wasn't right. His post was in regards to dhea not 4dhea. His posts were offensive to me and I personally hate the guy. Pls tell me what he's right about, and don't tell me get a nutritionist and a trainer cause I'm goin to lose it.

 

[BCseacow83]

No one asked you to explain.

I stand by my points on efficacy until someone shows me oral two step conversions elevating testosterone to even upper levels with blood work.

Best of luck to you.

I am on TRT. I will be having labs drawn in a few days. I can use this as a baseline since my dose stays the same. I will add some 4-dhea and retest the same number of days post TRT shot. If there is a big difference I will go off the TRT for a couple weeks and then only run the 4-dhea at a reasonable dose and test again. If there is no real difference between TRT without 4-dhea and with that will answer it for me. We shall see.

 

[B5150]

Thanks but I already posted that conversion rates can vary from one user to another. Read post #15. Also, Dunn wasn't right. His post was in regards to dhea not 4dhea. His posts were offensive to me and I personally hate the guy. Pls tell me what he's right about, and don't tell me get a nutritionist and a trainer cause I'm goin to lose it.

You are a funny little man. You are missing the point. I'm guessing it went over your head.

You are taking 4DHEA with poor oral availability and with a poor conversion rate to the precursor 4AD which has even more poor conversion rate to testosterone.

Sorry but you come up short... :lol:

 

[jbryand101b]

Thanks but I already posted that conversion rates can vary from one user to another. Read post #15. Also, Dunn wasn't right. His post was in regards to dhea not 4dhea. His posts were offensive to me and I personally hate the guy. Pls tell me what he's right about, and don't tell me get a nutritionist and a trainer cause I'm goin to lose it.

I didn't quote your op for a reason, you aren't the only one in the dark to this topic.
Post 15 did nothing to show your understanding of the original question.

Doesn't matter whether it's one person or another.

You can't determine in vivo conversion rates for any pro hormone for yourself or anyone else.

Also doesn't matter about the isomer of dhea.

Dhea regardless of isomer once in contact with stomach acids will be mostly converted into inactive metabolites. Then what's left still have to make it through first pass. This is why companies try to bypass oral dosing with td an sublingual

If you are taking 4dhea, you will need a lot of it.
And have to dose it frequently.

Your best option with any isomer is transdermal or rectal administration

Using a sarm is a much better option and cheaper.

 

[B5150]

I didn't quote your op for a reason, you aren't the only one in the dark to this topic.
Post 15 did nothing to show your understanding of the original question.

Doesn't matter whether it's one person or another.

You can't determine in vivo conversion rates for any pro hormone for yourself or anyone else.

Also doesn't matter about the isomer of dhea.

Dhea regardless of isomer once in contact with stomach acids will be mostly converted into inactive metabolites. Then what's left still have to make it through first pass. This is why companies try to bypass oral dosing with td an sublingual

If you are taking 4dhea, you will need a lot of it.
And have to dose it frequently.

Your best option with any isomer is transdermal or rectal administration

Using a sarm is a much better option and cheaper.

And mega dosing of it will result in excessive aromatization which will put on weight and size that most are mistaking for "the gains" that they care about. No different than oral 4AD but now a once more removed precursor.

 

[jbryand101b]

With 4-dhea you have the possibility of 4-androstenedione and 4-androstenediol conversion.
Diols are incapable of aromatization, but Dione and test both aromatize.

When I dosed 4-diol I noticed 2 things, well, three, hunger, bloat, and strength, and when stacked with superdrol, gyno.
Guess that's 4. My bad.

 

[goodvibes]

You are a funny little man. You are missing the point. I'm guessing it went over your head.

You are taking 4DHEA with poor oral availability and with a poor conversion rate to the precursor 4AD which has even more poor conversion rate to testosterone.

Sorry but you come up short...

I guess you also missed post #30. I stated different application methodology. In my case it was TD and sublingual

 

[goodvibes]

And I didn't miss the point, you threw weak a$$ references that pertained to dhea. With your "1 minute Google search"

 

[goodvibes]

I didn't quote your op for a reason, you aren't the only one in the dark to this topic.
Post 15 did nothing to show your understanding of the original question.

Doesn't matter whether it's one person or another.

You can't determine in vivo conversion rates for any pro hormone for yourself or anyone else.

Also doesn't matter about the isomer of dhea.

Dhea regardless of isomer once in contact with stomach acids will be mostly converted into inactive metabolites. Then what's left still have to make it through first pass. This is why companies try to bypass oral dosing with td an sublingual

If you are taking 4dhea, you will need a lot of it.
And have to dose it frequently.

Your best option with any isomer is transdermal or rectal administration

Using a sarm is a much better option and cheaper.

Read my post above and I know you like rectal administration.

 

[goodvibes]

What's funny is I was polite and asked a legit question at the time. Then here comes two Mr. Smart asses who think they know everything quoting wrong references.

 

[B5150]

You're an angry little man. One more personal attack and you're gone! Got it?

 

[mr.cooper69]

No one asked you to explain.

I stand by my points on efficacy until someone shows me oral two step conversions elevating testosterone to even upper levels with blood work.

Best of luck to you.

It doesn't. 4-dhea works because it converts to 4-ad at fairly respectable levels, but the overall conversion to testosterone is awful. Any perceived effects are due to the fact that 4-ad is bioactive on its own

The reason T conversion will blow on cycle is simple. By adding a second step to conversion, we backtrack to the step that is more highly regulated by negative feedback. So if you're being shutdown by some exogenous hormone, 4-ad will be an awful test base because the same mechanism that causes testicular shutdown will downregulate the enzyme necessary to get 4-dhea to 4-ad. That's the problem with 2-steppers in general, is heavy negative feedback.

 

[mr.cooper69]

Also please remember that DHEA can act as a "base" because it causes neurological effects that improve mood and drive. This does not mean it is converting to T.

So anything you guys feel from the 2-steppers probably isn't from conversion to the target hormone. Even 1-dhea, which has data showing it works great, functions due to conversion to 1-ad, as the conversion to 1-t has been studied and clocks in at around a percent