Sustain Alpha vs Dermacrine

[jake.miller23]

What's the difference??

 

[T-Bone]

Just look at each label and compare them.

 

[thebigt]

why compare...just run em both!!!

 

[Afi140]

One is topical dhea with some extras and the other is a topical natural test booster. We have dermacrine at strong and you can view ingredients. We should have sustain alpha soon as well. Both are very good products and you can search dermacrine or primordial sustain alpha if you want to see logs and reviews. Same formula just under Bps now.

 

[Jackedjack]

Dermacrine is not natural and often used as a test base, while sustain alpha is meant as a test booster/PCT

 

[thebigt]

Dermacrine is not natural and often used as a test base, while sustain alpha is meant as a test booster/PCT

lol...it depends on your definition of natural. dhea and pregnenolone are both NATURALLY produced by the body, while resveratrol is not.

nevertheless, both are safe to use, imo.

 

[Jackedjack]

lol...it depends on your definition of natural. dhea and pregnenolone are both NATURALLY produced by the body, while resveratrol is not.

nevertheless, both are safe to use, imo.

Natural to me is anything that will not suppress endocrine system or thyroid production. Granted I have definitely not been natural all my life . Dermacrine is definitely great for overall feeling and mood/energy

Edit: Thanks for the info tbone

 

[jake.miller23]

Which would be better for libido and sex drive?

 

[T-Bone]

Natural to me is anything that will not suppress endocrine system or thyroid production. Granted I have definitely not been natural all my life . Yes DHEA is naturally produced but can suppress you even if minimally. But Dermacrine is definitely great for overall feeling and mood/energy

DHEA is not suppressive...at all.

 

[Shocker279]

Doesn't dermacrine contain everything in sustain alpha plus more?

 

[Jackedjack]

DHEA is not suppressive...at all.

Effect of oral DHEA on serum testosterone and adaptations to resistance training in young men
Gregory A. Brown, Matthew D. Vukovich, Rick L. Sharp, Tracy A. Reifenrath, Kerry A. Parsons, and Douglas S. King
Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011
Just read up and your right. But I thought high doses 300mg+ can cause an increase in estrogen, enough to trick the HPTA loop that test dosent need to be produced at the same rate anymore due to the high estrogen.

 

[rtmilburn]

What i would like to see is dermacrine with 4dhea instead of plain dhea or maybe both

 

[thebigt]

What i would like to see is dermacrine with 4dhea instead of plain dhea or maybe both

i am just glad bps brought dermacrine back!!!

 

[rtmilburn]

i am just glad bps brought dermacrine back!!!

Me to!!! but i think it would be awesome to see the same ingredient profile with 15mgs of of 4dhea add to each pump

 

[Joshlm69]

Dermacrine has definitely been shown to be suppressive. Everyone would run this year round if not!

 

[T-Bone]

Dermacrine has definitely been shown to be suppressive. Everyone would run this year round if not!

No. It's not suppressive in the least bit. There are several threads about this by Eric Portraz posted years ago when Dermacrine was first released by Primordial.

 

[testosteronet]

No. It's not suppressive in the least bit. There are several threads about this by Eric Portraz posted years ago when Dermacrine was first released by Primordial.

Disagree.

 

[Jiigzz]

Dermacrine has definitely been shown to be suppressive. Everyone would run this year round if not!

DHEA isnt beneficial for those with already high levels of it.

 

[Jiigzz]

Disagree.

Why? One word is hardly enough to convince people

 

[testosteronet]

I'm not trying to convince people. I just disagree. I love Dermacrine from the bottom of my heart. Matter of fact, I put some on this morning. Will it shut you down completely? I doubt it. However, run it long enough and there will be a dip upon cessation. This I believe to be true. My opinion.

 

[MultiVitamin]

I'm not trying to convince people. I just disagree. I love Dermacrine from the bottom of my heart. Matter of fact, I put some on this morning. Will it shut you down completely? I doubt it. However, run it long enough and there will be a dip upon cessation. This I believe to be true. My opinion.

Good for you. Your opinion doesn't make your statement anymore factual lol

 

[rtmilburn]

Good for you. Your opinion doesn't make your statement anymore factual lol

He isn't stating it as a fact or even trying to prove it is! So don't be a douche to some one giving an honest opinion. BTW haven't seen ANY PROOF of it NOT being SUPPRESSIVE nor it being suppressive. If there is please share. Not hating at all i think its a great product. I also love BPS! They are one of the companies i actually trust in this shady market.

 

[Jiigzz]

He isn't stating it as a fact or even trying to prove it is! So don't be a douche to some one giving an honest opinion. BTW haven't seen ANY PROOF of it NOT being SUPPRESSIVE nor it being suppressive. If there is please share. Not hating at all i think its a great product. I also love BPS! They are one of the companies i actually trust in this shady market.

http://m.jap.physiology.org/content/87/6/2274.short

 

[testosteronet]

We can go back and forth all day. Your study is on oral consumption of dhea, not topical. I see nothing on that study regarding changes in LH and FSH. Just because testosterone and estrogens remained constant doesn't mean anything, especially since I'd expect dhea to convert to those things. You want to prove there's no suppression, show me a study that LH and FSH was the same before administration of dhea and afterwards. Then we can talk turkey. My opinion still stands.

Be right back, it's time for my night time slathering of Dermacrine, serious.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

I believe that topical DHEA would be less suppressive than oral DHEA. We know that oral DHEA converts pretty heavily into estrogens in men based on studies, and that topical DHEA converts more into androgenic compounds due to enzymes in the skin that alter the conversion.

(This is just like how topical testosterone converts significantly more into DHT than injected testosterone.)


We know that estrogen is significantly more suppressive than androgenic compounds to the HPTA, so I would think topical DHEA, like dermcrine, would be less suppressive than oral DHEA if we're using oral DHEA studies to show suppression.

Just my 2 cents.

Any endogenous hormones are going to cause some level of suppression, topical or not.

Bottom-Line:

Sustain Alpha boosts well-being, sex drive, body composition, mental state, etc. by increasing the body's ability to produce hormones (also resveratrol is just a generally healthy substance which increases blood flow to the brain and has other healthful benefits).

Dermacrine increases the body's androgens and sex hormones by literally giving them to the body via pregnenolone and DHEA. It has AI's built in to counter-act potential rises in Estrogen from the increase in sex hormones.

They're really similar in effects but give the effects in opposite ways, imo.

 

[Jiigzz]

We can go back and forth all day. Your study is on oral consumption of dhea, not topical. I see nothing on that study regarding changes in LH and FSH. Just because testosterone and estrogens remained constant doesn't mean anything, especially since I'd expect dhea to convert to those things. You want to prove there's no suppression, show me a study that LH and FSH was the same before administration of dhea and afterwards. Then we can talk turkey. My opinion still stands.

Be right back, it's time for my night time slathering of Dermacrine, serious.

I didnt make a claim and it was tje first thing I saw lol. I couldnt care less if it was or wasnt

 

[testosteronet]

I couldnt care less if it was or wasnt

Yep, same here. It's a great product and I've used it off and on for years. I'll be so bold as to call it my favorite product.

 

[NattyForLife]

Natural to me is anything that will not suppress endocrine system or thyroid production. Granted I have definitely not been natural all my life . Dermacrine is definitely great for overall feeling and mood/energy

Edit: Thanks for the info tbone

I hold the same definition of what i consider natty and not natural.

 

[T-Bone]

Just do a search on here for Dermacrine and look for threads by Eric Portraz- creator of dermacrine.

 

[testosteronet]

Just do a search on here for Dermacrine and look for threads by Eric Portraz- creator of dermacrine.

Ok yea.

anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/140290-blow-through-walls.html

Quote from your source directly, 4th paragraph.

"Since Dermacrine can suppress natural testosterone production, we recommend a PCT after a cycle."

Balls in your court.

I do want to thank you T-Bone for taking me back in time, though. I enjoyed those days.

 

[T-Bone]

Ok yea.

anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/140290-blow-through-walls.html

Quote from your source directly, 4th paragraph.

"Since Dermacrine can suppress natural testosterone production, we recommend a PCT after a cycle."

Balls in your court.

I do want to thank you T-Bone for taking me back in time, though. I enjoyed those days.

Ehh, I'm too old and tired to debate this.

 

[testosteronet]

Ehh, I'm too old and tired to debate this.

Sorry bro. I just did what you said to do.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Don't see the debate, Dermacrine is known to cause at least some suppression, or has the potential to cause suppression. That's why we recommend using Dermacrine and then following up with Sustain Alpha (In the old PP days, anyway. Now we can recommend it again.)

I used to rep for Primordial for over 2 years, I know for a fact Eric recognized that Dermacrine was suppressive at least a bit.

 

[thebigt]

I believe that topical DHEA would be less suppressive than oral DHEA. We know that oral DHEA converts pretty heavily into estrogens in men based on studies, and that topical DHEA converts more into androgenic compounds due to enzymes in the skin that alter the conversion.

(This is just like how topical testosterone converts significantly more into DHT than injected testosterone.)


We know that estrogen is significantly more suppressive than androgenic compounds to the HPTA, so I would think topical DHEA, like dermcrine, would be less suppressive than oral DHEA if we're using oral DHEA studies to show suppression.

Just my 2 cents.

Any endogenous hormones are going to cause some level of suppression, topical or not.

Bottom-Line:

Sustain Alpha boosts well-being, sex drive, body composition, mental state, etc. by increasing the body's ability to produce hormones (also resveratrol is just a generally healthy substance which increases blood flow to the brain and has other healthful benefits).

Dermacrine increases the body's androgens and sex hormones by literally giving them to the body via pregnenolone and DHEA. It has AI's built in to counter-act potential rises in Estrogen from the increase in sex hormones.

They're really similar in effects but give the effects in opposite ways, imo.

very knowledgeable and informed post-repped!!!

i like that you pointed out that most if not all studies are done on oral administration.....the topical delivery makes a significant difference as you pointed out!!!

 

[thebigt]

Don't see the debate, Dermacrine is known to cause at least some suppression, or has the potential to cause suppression. That's why we recommend using Dermacrine and then following up with Sustain Alpha (In the old PP days, anyway. Now we can recommend it again.)

I used to rep for Primordial for over 2 years, I know for a fact Eric recognized that Dermacrine was suppressive at least a bit.

i think that with a 1-2 bottle run of dermacrine the suppression would be so low as to hardly be noticeable, full recovery should happen quickly, imo. but running dermacrine then sustain would be an ALMOST PERFECT SOLUTION....RUNNING THEM TOGETHER WOULD BE IDEAL, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION!!!!

 

[Jackedjack]

lol stop the bickering and just buy it all . Both are great products /thread

 

[testosteronet]

lol stop the bickering and just buy it all . Both are great products /thread

I would if I could, but everywhere I look, I can only buy one or the other. I want both at the same time darnit!

 

[thebigt]

lol stop the bickering and just buy it all . Both are great products /thread

indeed!!!:cheers:

 

[BigBlackGuy]

I would if I could, but everywhere I look, I can only buy one or the other. I want both at the same time darnit!

The BPS site! But yes I know it's always more expensive straight from the source... Gotta wait for Nutra to get it back in stock!

 

[NattyForLife]

Testosterone bought me out! Lol

 

[Joshlm69]

you think you can run derma & sustain together? or will your e2 just plummet hardcore? as its double dosing of reversatrol & benz right?

 

[MidwestBeast]

FWIW, regarding the original question, if you were looking at both, my suggestion would be to utilize Dermacrine and then run Sustain Alpha after it.

 

[thebigt]

FWIW, regarding the original question, if you were looking at both, my suggestion would be to utilize Dermacrine and then run Sustain Alpha after it.

derma and forma was one of my favorite stacks....why not derma and sustain???? sounds like a match made in heaven to me!!!

 

[NattyForLife]

Could do what midwest mentioned or you could run both at one time!

 

[BigBlackGuy]

you think you can run derma & sustain together? or will your e2 just plummet hardcore? as its double dosing of reversatrol & benz right?

Doubtful that this combo would crush estrogen. The AIs in dermacrine are just to prevent any rise that might come from the dermacrine. Should equal to a zero increase in estrogen, while the sustain would lower it. But as long as you don't overdo the dose, you should be fine.

 

[Joshlm69]

derma and forma was one of my favorite stacks....why not derma and sustain???? sounds like a match made in heaven to me!!!

I have derma & form , considering this for sure

 

[Joshlm69]

Epic unleashed
Dermacrine
Formeron
Magnitropin

What u boys thinkin?

 

[thebigt]

Epic unleashed
Dermacrine
Formeron
Magnitropin

What u boys thinkin?

i ran dermacrine with a variety of formestane products with stellar results!!!:beerchug:

 

[NattyForLife]

The epic unleashed is TD right?

 

[Jackedjack]

The epic unleashed is TD right?

There is a capped version also