O.L. EP1C Unleashed Transdermal vs O.L. EP1C Unleashed

[bb333]

EP1C Unleashed Transdermal Supplement Facts

Serving Size: 2 ml
Servings per Container: 60


Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
EP1C UNLEASHED Proprietary Blend500 mg
Green Tea Extract (Camellia sinensis) (dried leaves) [standardized to 50% EGCG (Epigallocatechin gallate)], PhytoFUSE™ Green Tea Extract with Soy Phosphatidylcholine (standardized to 95% (-)- Epicatechin)

VS

EP1C supplemento Unleashed fatti

Dose: 1 capsula
Dosi per confezione: 60


Quantità per dose % Valore Giornaliero
EP1C UNLEASHED miscela di proprieta '500 mg
Estratto di tè verde (Camellia sinensis) (foglie essiccate) [standardizzato al 50% EGCG (epigallocatechina gallato)], PhytoFUSE ™ estratto di tè verde con fosfatidilcolina di soia (standardizzato al 95% (-) - epicatechina)

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There's actually a big difference between the two, with regard to the absorption?

which do you recommend?

I would like to work with Elim1nate, Alphamine, f95%.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Both product have different intended goals. The big difference is the route of administration and the peak blood concentrations.

Oral has a has a faster rate of absorption and reaches higher peak concentrations more quickly. Think of this as having more of an acute onset and effect, and then is cleared. Ideal for pre-workout dosing.

TD allows for a slower release and more stable blood levels. This doesnt have a peak per say, but more of a steady rise and decline. This is ideal for a slow and steady accumulation of its benefits.

Now whether one recommended or another is really are based on personal preference. Both are designed to work differently so that they can be stacked effectively and both are designed to be effective as standalone products. TD allows for a steady presence and then the oral is for a quick and effective pre-workout spike. Both are effective standalone.

I personally do not like TD's...I prefer caps. Other's prefer TD's and do not like caps. There is no wrong choice.

However, even though I do not like TD's, I can't deny how effective the TD was when I tried it out(as a standalone). Furthermore I cannot deny how both stacked was more effective due to the synergistic effect of stable levels supplemented with a pre-workout spike. So personally my preferred method is to stack the two if possible.

Does that help?

 

[kdubson14]

Why is it recommended to take both caps first thing AM on off days? Would it not be better to space out the dosage?

 

[mr.cooper69]

Epicatechin has respectable oral bioavailability. Transdermal delivery of catechins shows improved bioavailability over oral (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16640828). Either are good choices

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Why is it recommended to take both caps first thing AM on off days? Would it not be better to space out the dosage?

You can space out the dose if you wish.

 

[mw1]

Epicatechin has respectable oral bioavailability. Transdermal delivery of catechins shows improved bioavailability over oral (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16640828). Either are good choices

The real question is how much Epicatechin is actually in there. It can be as little as 1mg

 

[NoAddedHmones]

The real question is how much Epicatechin is actually in there. It can be as little as 1mg

Meh. The real issue holding these products back is the absence of rice flour IMO

 

[Mission1]

The real question is how much Epicatechin is actually in there. It can be as little as 1mg

Why don't you buy a bottle and spend your money to have it analyzed and figure it out? No more guessing....

 

[NewAgeMayan]

Both product have different intended goals. The big difference is the route of administration and the peak blood concentrations.

Oral has a has a faster rate of absorption and reaches higher peak concentrations more quickly. Think of this as having more of an acute onset and effect, and then is cleared. Ideal for pre-workout dosing.

TD allows for a slower release and more stable blood levels. This doesnt have a peak per say, but more of a steady rise and decline. This is ideal for a slow and steady accumulation of its benefits.

Now whether one recommended or another is really are based on personal preference. Both are designed to work differently so that they can be stacked effectively and both are designed to be effective as standalone products.

So if one wished to do just a 4 week run, might the caps be 'better' in such a scenario? Or do the benefits of one delivery system over the other 'even out' over such a time span?

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

So if one wished to do just a 4 week run, might the caps be 'better' in such a scenario? Or do the benefits of one delivery system over the other 'even out' over such a time span?

The caps are not necessarily better. Over 4 weeks the TD will have more than enough time to exert its positive effects. You just wont have the added pre-workout surge the caps offer.

So in short, I do believe 4 weeks is more than enough time for both products to "even out" as you so put it. So either one will work just fine with a 4 week run. Pick whichever you prefer.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

The real question is how much Epicatechin is actually in there. It can be as little as 1mg

Wouldnt you like to know :439:

I mean it would be downright silly to call out a prop blend when focus xt, glucophase, and reduce xt all have prop blends. Which by the way I enjoyed running them all and would recommend them to others. You can even stack them with Ep1c Unleashed. Throw in some Conqu3r and X-gels for a real good time!

Furthermore I know you have more integrity and professionalism being a member of the SNS team to imply that OL is underdosing their products with NO evidence other than trying to discredit a competitor for personal gain. I mean it would reflect very poorly to slander a company who speaks very well of SNS and respects SNS as company and a competitor.

But let me reassure you...we have A LOT more then 1 mg, orders of magnitude greater then 1mg. Exactly how many, well OL wouldnt want a company to steal the formula and come out with a copy cat version of something the OL team put countless hours of research and work into. And yes that includes testing to make sure the epi we put in our product is the real deal.

Cheers! Isnt SNS coming out with an epi product soon?

 

[mw1]

Wouldnt you like to know :439:

I mean it would be downright silly to call out a prop blend when focus xt, glucophase, and reduce xt all have prop blends. Which by the way I enjoyed running them all and would recommend them to others. You can even stack them with Ep1c Unleashed. Throw in some Conqu3r and X-gels for a real good time!

Furthermore I know you have more integrity and professionalism being a member of the SNS team to imply that OL is underdosing their products with NO evidence other than trying to discredit a competitor for personal gain. I mean it would reflect very poorly to slander a company who speaks very well of SNS and respects SNS as company and a competitor.

But let me reassure you...we have A LOT more then 1 mg, orders of magnitude greater then 1mg. Exactly how many, well OL wouldnt want a company to steal the formula and come out with a copy cat version of something the OL team put countless hours of research and work into. And yes that includes testing to make sure the epi we put in our product is the real deal.

Cheers! Isnt SNS coming out with an epi product soon?

I don't think you understand..suppliers are selling this "blend" as a source for epi when in reality its just green tea. I think in the future there will be a lot of companies getting screwed by this tactic.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I don't think you understand..suppliers are selling this "blend" as a source for epi when in reality its just green tea. I think in the future there will be a lot of companies getting screwed by this tactic.

Are you saying suppliers are offering the PhytoFUSE extract, but it is merely just green tea extract?

 

[mad dog]

The 2 cap dose will be a effective dose to experience the benefits won't it?

 

[CJ_Xfit89]

I

I don't think you understand..suppliers are selling this "blend" as a source for epi when in reality its just green tea. I think in the future there will be a lot of companies getting screwed by this tactic.

I think you are missing the point Mike.

Green trea is a carrier for bioavailability.

I won't start a war

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

The 2 cap dose will be a effective dose to experience the benefits won't it?

Yep.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Are you saying suppliers are offering the PhytoFUSE extract, but it is merely just green tea extract?

I believe mw1 has a general concern that honest supplement companies get duped unknowingly. Can't fault a man who is looking out for the consumer. He was not intentionally trying to call out/bash OL's integrity or OL's products.

However, Phytofuse is truly a new and novel ingredient. OL did not merely take green tea, soy phosphatidylcholine and epi.... mix them together into a prop blend that can be faked or duped. No, OL took epicatechin and FUSED it at a molecular level with soy phosphatidylcholine to make a whole new monster of an ingredient(Phytofuse). This is what you ran NoAdded. THEN we added EGCG to what you and the other testers ran in order to enhance its effects. So we made an awesome product even better.

We are all on the same page, both OL and SNS look out for the safety of the consumer and try to bring you the best value for the highest quality in supplements.
:thumbsup:

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I believe mw1 has a general concern that honest supplement companies get duped unknowingly. Can't fault a man who is looking out for the consumer. He was not intentionally trying to call out/bash OL's integrity or OL's products.

However, Phytofuse is truly a new and novel ingredient. OL did not merely take green tea, soy phosphatidylcholine and epi.... mix them together into a prop blend that can be faked or duped. No, OL took epicatechin and FUSED it at a molecular level with soy phosphatidylcholine to make a whole new monster of an ingredient(Phytofuse). This is what you ran NoAdded. THEN we added EGCG to what you and the other testers ran in order to enhance its effects. So we made an awesome product even better.

We are all on the same page, both OL and SNS look out for the safety of the consumer and try to bring you the best value for the highest quality in supplements.
:thumbsup:

Yup wasn't doubting OL for a second, more so mw1's comment was pretty ambigious and was just seeking clarificaiton.

 

[rtmilburn]

OL took epicatechin and FUSED it at a molecular level with soy phosphatidylcholine to make a whole new monster of an ingredient(Phytofuse). This is what you ran NoAdded. THEN we added EGCG to what you and the other testers ran in order to enhance its effects. So we made an awesome product even better.

Wouldn't that change how epicatechins works because even the smallest molecular changes can complete change how it reacts inside and out of the human body. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all!(obviously it works look at NoAdded pictures and i cant wait to try it)

Like DHT weak then methyl-DHT slightly stronger 2a17a-methyl-DHT(SD) insane strong. Or dbol wet bulker then dbol-oxime dry cutter. Or SD wet bulker then bond 2 together with a nitrogen molecule and now it is a lean bulker

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Wouldn't that change how epicatechins works because even the smallest molecular changes can complete change how it reacts inside and out of the human body. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all!(obviously it works look at NoAdded pictures and i cant wait to try it)

Like DHT weak then methyl-DHT slightly stronger 2a17a-methyl-DHT(SD) insane strong. Or dbol wet bulker then dbol-oxime dry cutter. Or SD wet bulker then bond 2 together with a nitrogen molecule and now it is a lean bulker

I think you should look at this in the same fashion with what is trying to be acheived with different forms of curcumin, ie. Meriva, theracurmin. All are forms aimed at getting increased bioavailble amounts of curcumin into circulation. With the -epi it is still -epi once it has reached the blood stream.

PS. it wasn't mentioned in any of the write ups, but i was infact I was reversing out of a calorie deficit all throughout my log, I was adding in cals weekly and was losing weight week on week. Never has happened to me with any other supplement.

 

[kdubson14]

I think you should look at this in the same fashion with what is trying to be acheived with different forms of curcumin, ie. Meriva, theracurmin. All are forms aimed at getting increased bioavailble amounts of curcumin into circulation. With the -epi it is still -epi once it has reached the blood stream.

PS. it wasn't mentioned in any of the write ups, but i was infact I was reversing out of a calorie deficit all throughout my log, I was adding in cals weekly and was losing weight week on week. Never has happened to me with any other supplement.

Did you do more volume in the gym? Did your rest periods get shorter? More supersets? More cardio? Or was training the same as before?

I'm really, really looking forward to getting my bottles. Should be here Thursday! ... but I'm probably not going to start them until mid-May

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Did you do more volume in the gym? Did your rest periods get shorter? More supersets? More cardio? Or was training the same as before?

I'm really, really looking forward to getting my bottles. Should be here Thursday! ... but I'm probably not going to start them until mid-May

From end of week 1 I consistently added volume to each my hypertrophy days, for the whole 6 weeks. I also made considerable progress on strength in this time frame as well. The endurance and recovery you get from this is outstanding, but at the end of the day you need to try it to understand.

Its funny how some other members (with an agenda obviously) claim he sees Zero difference in my before and afters lmfao....

 

[bb333]

You're fantastic,
Thank you all.

I'll try the capsules.

 

[Auslifter]

From end of week 1 I consistently added volume to each my hypertrophy days, for the whole 6 weeks. I also made considerable progress on strength in this time frame as well. The endurance and recovery you get from this is outstanding, but at the end of the day you need to try it to understand.

Its funny how some other members (with an agenda obviously) claim he sees Zero difference in my before and afters lmfao....

i found consistency with the endurance and volume/strength increases with the old ep1c were really inconsistent compared to when i ran folli or myo, i had acute increases in my volume almost every week, day in day out, with those. and then followed by down time weeks were i had to lower volume a bit. but on the old ep1c i can't say it was the same, but some days it went pretty good. i want to try unleashed just on the fence about it lol

Epicatechin has respectable oral bioavailability. Transdermal delivery of catechins shows improved bioavailability over oral Transdermal delivery of (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate, a green tea polyphenol, in mice. - PubMed - NCBI[/url]). Either are good choices

I would love to see Analyzed bring an epi-(-) product out similar to like lipovate (since that had multiple ingredients)

 

[Jiigzz]

I think you should look at this in the same fashion with what is trying to be acheived with different forms of curcumin, ie. Meriva, theracurmin. All are forms aimed at getting increased bioavailble amounts of curcumin into circulation. With the -epi it is still -epi once it has reached the blood stream.

PS. it wasn't mentioned in any of the write ups, but i was infact I was reversing out of a calorie deficit all throughout my log, I was adding in cals weekly and was losing weight week on week. Never has happened to me with any other supplement.

As meriva is the best example as it is bound to the same ingredient that epi is in epi unleashed.

 

[bb333]

According to you would be fine?

capsules, days on, only prework.
pump, days off, 2 times a day.

 

[Segansational]

i found consistency with the endurance and volume/strength increases with the old ep1c were really inconsistent compared to when i ran folli or myo, i had acute increases in my volume almost every week, day in day out, with those. and then followed by down time weeks were i had to lower volume a bit. but on the old ep1c i can't say it was the same, but some days it went pretty good. i want to try unleashed just on the fence about it lol

I assure you that you will not feel the same way with Ep1c Unleashed. I have ran several different epi products, including some of those mentioned above - with and without EGCG and GTE. Ep1c Unleashed blows them all out of the water, including our OG Ep1c.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

i found consistency with the endurance and volume/strength increases with the old ep1c were really inconsistent compared to when i ran folli or myo, i had acute increases in my volume almost every week, day in day out, with those. and then followed by down time weeks were i had to lower volume a bit. but on the old ep1c i can't say it was the same, but some days it went pretty good. i want to try unleashed just on the fence about it lol



I would love to see Analyzed bring an epi-(-) product out similar to like lipovate (since that had multiple ingredients)

You repeatedly say this in multiple threads, both Folli and EP1C contain the exact same active ingredient so it has to be in your head... Segregating -epi effects from Myosynergy is pretty far fetched seeing as there are a number of other actives involved in the formula so using it to compare against a single ingredient product is naive to say the least.

 

[Auslifter]

You repeatedly say this in multiple threads, both Folli and EP1C contain the exact same active ingredient so it has to be in your head... Segregating -epi effects from Myosynergy is pretty far fetched seeing as there are a number of other actives involved in the formula so using it to compare against a single ingredient product is naive to say the least.

when i had myo i doubled the dose though lol so would be close, but your right i guess with myo, i don't know why i enjoyed folli more vs ep1c i don't know what the difference between both are just my 2 cents. i had the myo pouches when it first came out and got more later for a good deal on it. but i want to know what the difference is going to be compared to old EP1C vs this new one

 

[NoAddedHmones]

when i had myo i doubled the dose though lol so would be close, but your right i guess with myo, i don't know why i enjoyed folli more vs ep1c i don't know what the difference between both are just my 2 cents. i had the myo pouches when it first came out and got more later for a good deal on it. but i want to know what the difference is going to be compared to old EP1C vs this new one

Yep, all you can do is give it a go! I cannot wait to give it a long run while in a calorie surplus.

 

[bb333]

According to you would be fine?

capsules, days on, only prework.
pump, days off, 2 times a day.

up!

 

[NoAddedHmones]

You have a pump in one pic and not the other, and their both diff poses.

Whats so hard for you to understand?

The pic on the first page were both taken at the time of the day not on a pump. The one with a side view is obviously at a different time with a pump.

Would be pretty silly me claiming how good this product is ultilised solo for pumps without providing pics ey? They are just obviously not in context in the way that they posted them.

 

[Segansational]

up!

This would be fine.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Exactly how many, well OL wouldnt want a company to steal the formula and come out with a copy cat version of something the OL team put countless hours of research and work into. And yes that includes testing to make sure the epi we put in our product is the real deal.

This always interests me. Do you mind if I ask a question?

Say I am MusclePharm and I want to copy, steal, whatever - the formula OL is selling.

Are you saying I (MusclePharm) wouldn't have the financial or technical capability to do so, because the product is "protected" by a prop blend?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I think the best data we have so far, on dosage dependent plasma concentrations over time, is this one: (Add h t t p : / / w w w DOT)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25598082

Are there any charts/graphs etc.. for the new OL stuff, so we can compare to plain oral ingestion of purified Sigma-Aldrich -(-)Epi?

 

[Geoforce]

The pic on the first page were both taken at the time of the day not on a pump. The one with a side view is obviously at a different time with a pump.

Would be pretty silly me claiming how good this product is ultilised solo for pumps without providing pics ey? They are just obviously not in context in the way that they posted them.

I can see a difference, it isn't all in your head my man.

The biggest issue with any before/after is the difficulty when poses aren't the same and with different lighting. Considering we aren't professionals and mot of us are snapping these by our self on our phones it makes it incredibly difficult to have true everything equal before/after pics. How far we hold our phones, lighting, hydration levels, so many factors come into play.

Back to the point though I can't decide whether to run transdermal or capsule. Decisions, decisions.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

This always interests me. Do you mind if I ask a question?

Say I am MusclePharm and I want to copy, steal, whatever - the formula OL is selling.

Are you saying I (MusclePharm) wouldn't have the financial or technical capability to do so, because the product is "protected" by a prop blend?

That seems like a loaded question, and the answer to it is quite obvious. Mind if I ask for clarification/illuminate as to the thought process behind the question?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I see the comment all the time, that prop blends "protect formulas from copying". I disagree, and say they are to hide something from the consumer. *Note - that doesn't necessarily mean that the product is ineffective, or doesn't do what is claimed... but IMO *something* is being hidden. It could be as simple as it's the same stuff as something that sells for $20 less elsewhere, etc...

You claimed the reason for the prop blend was because: "OL wouldnt want a company to steal the formula and come out with a copy cat version"

So my question was actually asking you for a clarification: Do you really believe a competitor like MusclePharm, couldn't have OL's product analyzed and copied, because it's "protected" by a prop blend?

Of course it's a loaded question Because most educated consumers know that prop blends don't "protect" jack, and are just used for obfuscation. But every time I counter the "it's to protect the formula" argument, no one ever comes back on record saying a lab absolutely couldn't find out what, and how much, was in any "protected" prop blend.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I think the best data we have so far, on dosage dependent plasma concentrations over time, is this one: (Add h t t p : / / w w w DOT)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25598082

Are there any charts/graphs etc.. for the new OL stuff, so we can compare to plain oral ingestion of purified Sigma-Aldrich -(-)Epi?

Bump for this, as well.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

I see the comment all the time, that prop blends "protect formulas from copying". I disagree, and say they are to hide something from the consumer. *Note - that doesn't necessarily mean that the product is ineffective, or doesn't do what is claimed... but IMO *something* is being hidden. It could be as simple as it's the same stuff as something that sells for $20 less elsewhere, etc...

You claimed the reason for the prop blend was because: "OL wouldnt want a company to steal the formula and come out with a copy cat version"

So my question was actually asking you for a clarification: Do you really believe a competitor like MusclePharm, couldn't have OL's product analyzed and copied, because it's "protected" by a prop blend?

Of course it's a loaded question Because most educated consumers know that prop blends don't "protect" jack, and are just used for obfuscation. But every time I counter the "it's to protect the formula" argument, no one ever comes back on record saying a lab absolutely couldn't find out what, and how much, was in any "protected" prop blend.

Thank you very much for your honesty. Like you said, if a major company wanted to put in the time, money and research to analyze the contents of a product (especially one the size of musclepharm) they could.

However, and I only say this because I was involved in the R&D for this product, that is not the case for Ep1c Unleashed. Normally I agree with you being that my preference is not to trust a company but to make a blend myself. Could a company figure it out...yes. However they would have to put a ton of time and research into figuring out what we did because as it was stated earlier, Ep1c Unleashed is far more complex than 3 ingredients in a pill. So they could run an analysis however it still wont give them the final result so easily.

And I think if you look around, you can see quite a fee examples of smaller companies(as in smaller than musclepharm using your example) copying other companies non-prop blends. This been happening for quite some time and a prop blend would make it more difficult for other companies, not the size of musclepharm, to copy a product perfectly. Even with prop blends it wont stop companies from copying the formula and trying to put out a copy cat with similar ingredients to fool the consumer.

So, yes it does protect the formula to a certain degree, but not complete protection. Its more of a deterrent. Kind of like a gate, dog, bars and/or an alarm system for a home....they wont truly protect you completely from a break in, they just make it a whole lot harder for a break in to be successful/from happening. So in this case prop blend is like bars and a gate to our formula. OL didnt want to leave the door open on this one.

I applaud your skepticism and honesty. I would love to see your opinion on Ep1c Unleashed. If you do decide to take the plunge, I hope you log it. Skeptic to skeptic, if your interested in epi, you should really try Ep1c Unleashed.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

And I appreciate your candor, really, thanks. But, if like you say, there is special molecular process to the PhytoFuse combination of ingredients that would be astronomical to even attempt to figure out... why can't we know something as simple as how much -(-)Epi in in there?

You don't have to reply if you don't want to, I *AM NOT* trying to turn this into an Anti-PropBlend thread. We can agree to disagree respectfully. Funny thing is, I just finished my supply of -(-)Epi, and decided to see if my workouts regress from not taking it. (I still do 5-10g Cacao per day though).

But I do own Ar1micare Pro and will most likely go OL TUDCA, so all is not lost!

 

[Jiigzz]

And I appreciate your candor, really, thanks. But, if like you say, there is special molecular process to the PhytoFuse combination of ingredients that would be astronomical to even attempt to figure out... why can't we know something as simple as how much -(-)Epi in in there?

You don't have to reply if you don't want to, I *AM NOT* trying to turn this into an Anti-PropBlend thread. We can agree to disagree respectfully. Funny thing is, I just finished my supply of -(-)Epi, and decided to see if my workouts regress from not taking it. (I still do 5-10g Cacao per day though).

But I do own Ar1micare Pro and will most likely go OL TUDCA, so all is not lost!

The binding isnt a difficult process - you just need the right manufacturers. If you give away the epi dose, you give away the phytofuse component as well.

I for one, dont think a prop blend is there to deceive as many consumers wouldnt have a clue what an ingredient is, nor the dose it should be used at. Ive said it before, ask 10 people from your gym for the adequete dose of betaine, nitrates, citulline, agmatine etc and see how many people actually know.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I don't know exactly how it compares, but Now BioCurcumin is a Turmeric Root Extract (Curcuma longa)/Phosphatidyl
Choline Complex... and neither they, nor the owners of Meriva, have a problem letting you know there is 90mg of Curcuminoids in a 500mg capsule.

Ep1c Unleashed is EGCG, -(-)Epi, and Phosphatidylcholine Complex-ed. Seems similar to me.

I would think PhytoFUSE would be the intellectual property protected, not the amount of -(-)Epi in there. Just like Meriva

This product uses Indena S.p.A.'s curcumin phytosome (Meriva®). Meriva is a registered trademark of Indena S.p.A.

The scientists at Indena found a way to attach a curcumin extract to Phosphatidylcholine for superior absorption, resulting in Meriva. When you take Meriva your body absorbs the PC and the attached curcumin, resulting in more curcumin reaching the cells that can benefit from it.*

We've talked about 'the average gym goer' before. They don't matter as far as prop blends go - it's *Us* that matter. How much prop blend -(-)Epi has been sold since the first studies emerged? Probably a lot of $ - to guys like us - above average. Now *hypothetically* imagine that prop blend, selling for $40, had 150mg of -(-)Epi in it. Well, I can get that retail for $20. That's a lot of profit.

I'm not saying any of that is occurring, but it's a plausible scenario.

 

[Jiigzz]

I don't know exactly how it compares, but Now BioCurcumin is a Turmeric Root Extract (Curcuma longa)/Phosphatidyl
Choline Complex... and neither they, nor the owners of Meriva, have a problem letting you know there is 90mg of Curcuminoids in a 500mg capsule.

Ep1c Unleashed is EGCG, -(-)Epi, and Phosphatidylcholine Complex-ed. Seems similar to me.

I would think PhytoFUSE would be the intellectual property protected, not the amount of -(-)Epi in there. Just like Meriva



We've talked about 'the average gym goer' before. They don't matter as far as prop blends go - it's *Us* that matter. How much prop blend -(-)Epi has been sold since the first studies emerged? Probably a lot of $ - to guys like us - above average. Now *hypothetically* imagine that prop blend, selling for $40, had 150mg of -(-)Epi in it. Well, I can get that retail for $20. That's a lot of profit.

I'm not saying any of that is occurring, but it's a plausible scenario.

It costs money to protect aspects of a formula, and you need to be the one who is owed the rights.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/262902285_Phosphatidylcholine_complex_in_improving_oral_drug_delivery_of_epicatechin_preparation_and_characterization

It seems this fusing has been done before.

A company could just read this text and find out the right dose based on it

 

[Jiigzz]

It costs money to protect aspects of a formula, and you need to be the one who is owed the rights.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/262902285_Phosphatidylcholine_complex_in_improving_oral_drug_delivery_of_epicatechin_preparation_and_characterization

It seems this fusing has been done before.

A company could just read this text and find out the right dose based on it

And fwiw most food products do not list amounts either. In essence, a prop blend. It happens and often.

I should add that OL has been open label with other things in the past as well.

 

[furion]

It seems this fusing has been done before.

A company could just read this text and find out the right dose based on it

Shame that paper only tests the solubility of the emulsified complex- the title is actually quite misleading.

The oral kinetic profile of epicatechin is seemingly consistent with other polyphenol compounds- characterised by extensive conjugation due to the susceptibility of hydroxyl groups to conjugation enzymes (...although this hasn't seen to hamper the researched pharmacological activity).

Theoretically an emulsified complex would serve to increase hydrophilicity- and as such, from a pharmacokinetics perspective, serves benefit to highly lipophilic compounds like curcumin or boswellic acid for facilitating solubility and passive absorption and diffusion across lipid membranes. There is select research that identifies some enhancement of bioavailability of polyphenols- however I'm unsure as to whether it can be transposed to the kinetics of epicatechin which seems to undergo active absorption (via MRP2) and extensive hepatic sulfotransferase conjugation.
The apparent intracellular bioactivity doesn't seem as though entry into the cell is a hindrance.

It's interesting however- overcoming oral flavonoid bioavailability issues is very difficult. Theoretically the transdermal complex would seem most promising in terms of achieving greater blood levels providing the rate absorption is greater than elimination/metabolism.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

And fwiw most food products do not list amounts either. In essence, a prop blend. It happens and often.

I should add that OL has been open label with other things in the past as well.

Doesn't make it "right". And for food - I just want a full belly without Asbestos. A supplement that is supposed to directly or indirectly increase LBM/Strength/Endurance is a whole different ball game, IMO. Think the FDA would let a "Prop Blend" drug fly? "Ingredients: MicrobeMash3RTM 1.5g Metronidizole, Ciprofloxacin, Cephalexin"

Like I said before, I own OL products and applaud the other 99% of the line - but they f'd up here *in my opinion* by hiding something (and no, I have not been convinced that prop blends protect anything still - especially the ones that just have a bunch of raws in a pill/powder. Labs can find out )

My next Ostarine purchase will be OL and I'd love to see an LGD-4033 from them.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Doesn't make it "right". And for food - I just want a full belly without Asbestos. A supplement that is supposed to directly or indirectly increase LBM/Strength/Endurance is a whole different ball game, IMO. Think the FDA would let a "Prop Blend" drug fly? "Ingredients: MicrobeMash3RTM 1.5g Metronidizole, Ciprofloxacin, Cephalexin"

Like I said before, I own OL products and applaud the other 99% of the line - but they f'd up here *in my opinion* by hiding something (and no, I have not been convinced that prop blends protect anything still - especially the ones that just have a bunch of raws in a pill/powder. Labs can find out )

My next Ostarine purchase will be OL and I'd love to see an LGD-4033 from them.

Just talking out loud, we have OL a company that has always been fully transparent, providing best value for consumers. They have discontinued their original EP1C which was fantastic value relative to other -epi products on the market. To release an improved version after significant financial investment into research and development, why on earth would they create a prop blend to rip off consumers with this new version..

Just something to think about.....

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I believe I said in an earlier post that prop blends can still be effective/and or do what they say on the label. I also don't recall saying specifically that OL is ripping people off. I *am* saying that IMO, until more convincing evidence than what has been presented so far, is shown - Prop Blends are about hiding *something* from the consumer. What that *something* is, could be a multitude of things that don't have to be "ripping off". Believe me, if I thought "ripping off" was occurring, I wouldn't be making future OL TUDCA/Ostarine purchases.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I believe I said in an earlier post that prop blends can still be effective/and or do what they say on the label. I also don't recall saying specifically that OL is ripping people off. I *am* saying that IMO, until more convincing evidence than what has been presented so far, is shown - Prop Blends are about hiding *something* from the consumer. What that *something* is, could be a multitude of things that don't have to be "ripping off". Believe me, if I thought "ripping off" was occurring, I wouldn't be making future OL TUDCA/Ostarine purchases.

Fair enough but obviously raising the issue suggests you have an agenda on the prop blend issue. Not being aggressive in what I'm saying, just making an observation