best non-hormonal supp/product you have ever used?
- 04-08-2005, 01:36 PM
- 04-08-2005, 03:00 PM
- 04-08-2005, 03:21 PM
04-08-2005, 04:13 PM
My cows seem to like clen.
Lately I've been throwing (approximately) the following into my pre and post-WO shakes:
1.5g Citrulline Malate
1.5g l-Arginine-l-Malate (Syntrax Nitrous)
1 tbsp splenda (masks the ass taste of the above pretty well)
I also take 200mg caffeine, 50mg ephedrine, 2g CLA, a couple doses of Sesathin, a multi-vitamin, and some extra zinc and potassium pre-workout. On the whole, it makes waking up at 5:30a to go to the gym pretty enjoyable :-)
I used to use NO-Xplode, but I like my current stack better, and it's lots cheaper.
04-08-2005, 08:29 PM
ok i just checked the site i bout it from and they have raised the price on the stuff i got it for 45 bucks for 5 bottls still looks like the cheapest place i have seen tho so here is the link
04-09-2005, 11:16 AM
PHENOGEN - about the smartest supplement anyone ever put on the ****ing market. way over everybody's head. the only supplement that makes the result last after ending use. maintaining your setpoint while chronically overeating is pretty ****ing awesome, too bad nobody gets it :-(
A7E edit - I thought a7e was something its not. Im changing this to guggul extract
04-09-2005, 02:17 PM
Without question the two best supplements in terms of strength/growth for me have been X-Factor and Product X Dermasize.
I swear I gained more strength and size over eight weeks of Product X than I did over eight weeks of 1-test transdermal and M1,4add (using "Big One" at 5 sprays twice per day and M1,4add at 120mg/day.) Every workout I increased strength on almost every exercise using Product X.
I guess I'm a creatine non-responder...neither monohydrate nor Vitargo CGL nor CEE produced any results that I couldn't have gotten without them.
04-09-2005, 02:34 PM
I get Phenogen, if it's any consolation to you...lolOriginally Posted by judge-mental
Good list by the way. I would add high-potency green tea extract and anti-oxidants (NAC, ALA) to Class A though. And I'm pretty sure 7-hydroxy-dhea gets better bioavailability than A7E, although its not like any literature exists on those ethylcarbonate esters to begin with...
04-09-2005, 02:55 PM
The prices of Avantlabs products are just too high. I have tried Absolved, Lipoderm, and now Sesathin..That is when I had the extra money to blow on a product that I wasn't sure of its effectiveness. I was disapointed with absolved and lipo. I haven't finished the Sesathin product yet, its a good product but I woundn't have marketed it towards fat loss. Also the price could come down some. I might actually add it to my daily supps if it was priced more reasonably. I was thinking about trying the Phonogen next time I cut calories but theres just not that much feedback from it as far as reviews go. Also by nobody "gets it" do you mean nobody purchases much of it or no one understands the concept of its use?. Also there is no place that lists the "Supplement Facts" of Phenogen, just the saying "One bottle will last you approximately 30 days". I'm guessing thats at the recommended dose on the bottle which most people double. I really don't believe that much in fat loss products overall. People will be doing cardio for 1 hour twice a day every day, and weight training 5 times a week, and then take a "fat loss" product and assume that that is what helped lose the fat!.Originally Posted by judge-mental
04-09-2005, 03:20 PM
Serving Size: 2 Capsules
Servings Per Container: 90
Amount Per Serving:
Salvia Miltiorrhiza (40% tanshinones) 500mg
SesaThin Powder (40% sesamin) 500mg
Guanidinopropionic Acid 500mg
Microcrystalline cellulose. Directions: For those with a significant amount of bodyfat (above 15% for men and 25% for women) or those who store fat quite easily, use 2 capsules three times per day in conjuction with a reduced calorie diet (preferably a reduced carbohydrate diet).
04-09-2005, 04:30 PM
So is phenogen used to maintain lbm while dieting, like an anti-catabolic supp, or is it just for fat loss?
04-09-2005, 04:50 PM
04-09-2005, 05:02 PM
04-09-2005, 05:42 PM
It's being taken care of.Originally Posted by T-Bone
As Derek said, it is a repartitioner of calories (particularly glucose) that improves carbohydrate tolerance and accelerates fat loss on a diet, and reduces fat gain on a mass phase by distributing more ingested calories (and again glucose) to muscle, and preventing fat storage & triglyceride formation.So is phenogen used to maintain lbm while dieting, like an anti-catabolic supp, or is it just for fat loss?
04-10-2005, 06:35 AM
its much more than a repartitioner, IMO
its (main use for me) a product that massages your brain not to raise its resistance to leptin or maybe even repairs it while you overeat or eat regularly and an endo/overweight.
04-10-2005, 06:44 AM
04-10-2005, 02:26 PM
.... I have used phenogen for 8 weeks and read the write up and the references and did some research on my own.
04-13-2005, 08:44 AM
The entire LeptiGen line pretty much fits this as well.Originally Posted by judge-mental
I've definitely learned a great deal the last 2 years on the need to dummy and bro-proof supplements.
04-13-2005, 09:48 AM
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