Jym vs Musclepharm Hardcore series

[LiftWithDonuts]

What's everyone's thoughts on this?
Is musclepharm "copying" Jym or is it a good thing that they're starting to go towards actually dosing their stuff better.
It's also not just musclepharm.

 

[highlander31]

There was recently a lawsuit going on again Muscle Pharm that I heard of with their label claims being false. Something like the arnold mass having 20g protein instead of 40 per serving. Anyone know more?

 

[koi1214]

What's everyone's thoughts on this?
Is musclepharm "copying" Jym or is it a good thing that they're starting to go towards actually dosing their stuff better.
It's also not just musclepharm.

What are you looking for? Stay away from Musclepharm.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

What are you looking for? Stay away from Musclepharm.

I'm not looking to by anything I'm just trying to see what people's opinions are on musclepharm as a company. They are trying to seem like a superior company with this new line but they're still selling assault and poor quality supplements.

 

[carmaf]

I love the fact that Jim came out and made proper dosing and transparent labels the new standard, personally. He's changed the industry for the better.

 

[koi1214]

I love the fact that Jim came out and made proper dosing and transparent labels the new standard, personally. He's changed the industry for the better.

How does his protein taste?

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

How does his protein taste?

its taste pretty much exactly like protogen if you've ever had that. There are little chunks of graham crackers or chocolate chips

 

[LeanEngineer]

I like his diet plans and workouts routines and videos that ive seen.

 

[carmaf]

How does his protein taste?

I've never tried his protein. Only tried Pre and Post Jym, as well as ZMA Jym. Post and ZMA were just to experiment, but I would buy Pre-Jym in the future for sure. Vita-Jym looks good too.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I switched from TrueNutrition 'Team Skip' to Pro-Jym, when egg white prices went through the roof. His was a better value. They all taste darn good to me. I've since tried to save even more money by making my own 'blend' using ON protein and liquid egg whites from the grocery... but I liked Pro-Jym.

 

[The Solution]

What are you looking for? Stay away from Musclepharm.

This ^^^^
Jym is overpriced IMO, and not a fan of a guy who says you have to down pixie sticks post-workout when its clearly not true.
Protogen is half the price and tastes as good and is quality
PES Select is much cheaper and higher quality and tests above its label claims

Much better things out there for your $$ than paying for his name.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

This ^^^^ Jym is overpriced IMO, and not a fan of a guy who says you have to down pixie sticks post-workout when its clearly not true. Protogen is half the price and tastes as good and is quality PES Select is much cheaper and higher quality and tests above its label claims Much better things out there for your $$ than paying for his name.

honestly his entire line is almost the exact as b b .coms product line. Except you spend a few more $ for his product. But he is a pretty smart guy and I do trust his products more than a lot of other brands.

 

[The Solution]

honestly his entire line is almost the exact as b b .coms product line. Except you spend a few more $ for his product. But he is a pretty smart guy and I do trust his products more than a lot of other brands.

You must be ODIng on pixie sticks with him post-workout brah.


i am also LOL at this...

"This is why I recommend getting in about six meals on rest days and up to eight meals on workout days"

post-workout meal immediately after and the workout lasts only 60-90 minutes,

when in reality thats not true.

When are Carbs and Protein VERY Important Post-workout?

Carbs:
- During leg Training + HIIT Cardio or doing a 2-3 hour intense workout session
Protein:
-Resistance Training in a fasted state (no meal consumed at least 3-4 hours prior)

When are Carbs and Protein of lesser importance Post-workout?

Carbs:
- 1-2 hour training session after a pre-workout meal (Small or mixed 2-3 hours prior to session)
Protein:
- Training after a meal composed of 20-40g Protein at least 1-2 hours prior to a workout in a fed state.

Overall Cliffs:

- Nutrient Timing can be beneficial but window of opportunity is not as big as believed
- Provided protein rich meal 3-4 hours prior to training, there is no stress about immediate post-workout protein supplement or meal
- Consume .4-.5g/kg of LBM in a pre/post workout exercise window spaced 4-6 hours depending on meal size.
- Post workout carb intake does not meaningful increase aabolicsm unless doing a 2 a day workout session involving same muscle groups. Glycogen is not a limting factor if you can consume enough Carbohydrates daily in the 24 hour period.

Jym ---> "The best way to fully replenish muscle glycogen is with high-glycemic or fast-digesting carbs. These carbs make it into the bloodstream and to your muscle fibers almost as quickly as you ingest them. Research confirms that the quicker you get carbs to your muscles after workouts, the faster and better the muscle glycogen replenishment."
"You can use straight dextrose/glucose powder or Wonka Pixy Stix (100% dextrose) or gummy bears, which tend to be made out of dextrose and corn syrup"

no just no.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

You must be ODIng on pixie sticks with him post-workout brah.

if by that you mean taking in 32 grams of dextrose then yes

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

You must be ODIng on pixie sticks with him post-workout brah. i am also LOL at this... "This is why I recommend getting in about six meals on rest days and up to eight meals on workout days" post-workout meal immediately after and the workout lasts only 60-90 minutes, when in reality thats not true. When are Carbs and Protein VERY Important Post-workout? Carbs: - During leg Training + HIIT Cardio or doing a 2-3 hour intense workout session Protein: -Resistance Training in a fasted state (no meal consumed at least 3-4 hours prior) When are Carbs and Protein of lesser importance Post-workout? Carbs: - 1-2 hour training session after a pre-workout meal (Small or mixed 2-3 hours prior to session) Protein: - Training after a meal composed of 20-40g Protein at least 1-2 hours prior to a workout in a fed state. Overall Cliffs: - Nutrient Timing can be beneficial but window of opportunity is not as big as believed - Provided protein rich meal 3-4 hours prior to training, there is no stress about immediate post-workout protein supplement or meal - Consume .4-.5g/kg of LBM in a pre/post workout exercise window spaced 4-6 hours depending on meal size. - Post workout carb intake does not meaningful increase aabolicsm unless doing a 2 a day workout session involving same muscle groups. Glycogen is not a limting factor if you can consume enough Carbohydrates daily in the 24 hour period. Jym ---> "The best way to fully replenish muscle glycogen is with high-glycemic or fast-digesting carbs. These carbs make it into the bloodstream and to your muscle fibers almost as quickly as you ingest them. Research confirms that the quicker you get carbs to your muscles after workouts, the faster and better the muscle glycogen replenishment." "You can use straight dextrose/glucose powder or Wonka Pixy Stix (100% dextrose) or gummy bears, which tend to be made out of dextrose and corn syrup" no just no.

so what exactly do you have against his products besides then being over priced and him selling a dextrose as part of his postworkout?

 

[The Solution]

Lets look at post-jym for a second here

First ingredient Glutamine, total waste
BA good for performance and endurnace but not very expensive as a bulk powder.

LCLT yes it can help recovery but would it be better pre-workout or post-workout? most may find it better pre-workout to aid them during their workout

Creatine at 2g is a bit underdosed as most aim for 3-5g and this is dirt cheap

5g of BCAA's when in reality most people do not even need BCAA's post-workout because 1 they are going to eat shortly after a workout, 2 they used EAA's intra-workout and that protein levels are still peaked and never had a chance to reach refractory stages, and 3 they prob ate a pre-workout meal still digesting into the post-workout period, so for nearly most of us not necessary.

30g Dextrose which is basically pennies and again for most not needed

if you breakdown his post-jym and how much it really is for whats in it, you can see why you are spending a lot of extra $$ on some ingredients that are pretty inexpensive. Especially with how most eat around their workouts or utilize an intra-workout beverage where food overlap is still present and the need for "Dextrose" or more BCAA's post-workout wont really be of true importance or necessary.

Why would you buy overpriced products when you can get better products or products of better quality for cheaper? Honestly 35$ for that? I could almost get 2 Amino IV's which would be better to use around my workouts for the price of Post-Jym and add my own dextrose for not much more.

Just eager why you like to spend more on an individuals name besides personal preference?

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

But everything is clinically dosed if you take his pre and his post. Right? That has you taking in 4gs of creating Hcl
4gs of beta alanine
3GS of Betaine
1g taurine
NALC 1g pre and LCLT post
6.6gs leucine
2.7gs l isoleucine
2.7gs l valine
And bio Perine for absorption
300mg of caffeine in the pre
And L tyrosine at 1.5gs
And some more
What else on the market has as much as his does at around 60 bucks for both a pre and post product?

 

[The Solution]

60 bucks?
its 35$ for the Post and 35$ for the pre thats 70$

I could buy an Ergonine (20$)
An Amino IV (20$)
Get adequate HICA, LCLT, Betaine, Creatine, BCAA's, and add bulk caffeine caps and make just as good of a pre-workout/intra-workout for almost half the cost.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

60 bucks? its 35$ for the Post and 35$ for the pre thats 70$ I could buy an Ergonine (20$) An Amino IV (20$) Get adequate HICA, LCLT, Betaine, Creatine, BCAA's, and add bulk caffeine caps and make just as good of a pre-workout/intra-workout for almost half the cost.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

60 bucks? its 35$ for the Post and 35$ for the pre thats 70$ I could buy an Ergonine (20$) An Amino IV (20$) Get adequate HICA, LCLT, Betaine, Creatine, BCAA's, and add bulk caffeine caps and make just as good of a pre-workout/intra-workout for almost half the cost.

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

60 bucks? its 35$ for the Post and 35$ for the pre thats 70$ I could buy an Ergonine (20$) An Amino IV (20$) Get adequate HICA, LCLT, Betaine, Creatine, BCAA's, and add bulk caffeine caps and make just as good of a pre-workout/intra-workout for almost half the cost.

 

[braskibra]

This ^^^^
Jym is overpriced IMO, and not a fan of a guy who says you have to down pixie sticks post-workout when its clearly not true.
Protogen is half the price and tastes as good and is quality
PES Select is much cheaper and higher quality and tests above its label claims

Much better things out there for your $$ than paying for his name.

no offense but stoppani knows his stuff, regardless of whether you disagree with one topic

 

[braskibra]

60 bucks?
its 35$ for the Post and 35$ for the pre thats 70$

I could buy an Ergonine (20$)
An Amino IV (20$)
Get adequate HICA, LCLT, Betaine, Creatine, BCAA's, and add bulk caffeine caps and make just as good of a pre-workout/intra-workout for almost half the cost.

you can literally make that argument for every preworkout on the market

If you buy in bulk you can save, but its a pain in the arse

 

[braskibra]

Lets look at post-jym for a second here

First ingredient Glutamine, total waste
BA good for performance and endurnace but not very expensive as a bulk powder.

LCLT yes it can help recovery but would it be better pre-workout or post-workout? most may find it better pre-workout to aid them during their workout

Creatine at 2g is a bit underdosed as most aim for 3-5g and this is dirt cheap

5g of BCAA's when in reality most people do not even need BCAA's post-workout because 1 they are going to eat shortly after a workout, 2 they used EAA's intra-workout and that protein levels are still peaked and never had a chance to reach refractory stages, and 3 they prob ate a pre-workout meal still digesting into the post-workout period, so for nearly most of us not necessary.

30g Dextrose which is basically pennies and again for most not needed

if you breakdown his post-jym and how much it really is for whats in it, you can see why you are spending a lot of extra $$ on some ingredients that are pretty inexpensive. Especially with how most eat around their workouts or utilize an intra-workout beverage where food overlap is still present and the need for "Dextrose" or more BCAA's post-workout wont really be of true importance or necessary.

Why would you buy overpriced products when you can get better products or products of better quality for cheaper? Honestly 35$ for that? I could almost get 2 Amino IV's which would be better to use around my workouts for the price of Post-Jym and add my own dextrose for not much more.

Just eager why you like to spend more on an individuals name besides personal preference?

Post-gym is probably his worst product, i agree here

 

[The_Old_Guy]

About the protein comparo - His is 4lbs of WPI, MC, MPI, and Egg White for $53.98. The other one mentioned was 3.88lbs of MPI & WPC for $49.98. Without getting into every little minutiae, IMO, his doesn't get blown out of the water in any category by any means.

The Protogen does look similar, but it's not *that* much of a savings. @3.5lbs, five = 17.5lbs for $218.95. 16lbs of Pro-Jym is 215.92.

No dog in the fight (I mix tubs of ON WGS and MC + Liquid Egg Whites), but I always see "way over-priced", but can't make my calculator show it.

 

[highlander31]

About the protein comparo - His is 4lbs of WPI, MC, MPI, and Egg White for $53.98. The other one mentioned was 3.88lbs of MPI & WPC for $49.98. Without getting into every little minutiae, IMO, his doesn't get blown out of the water in any category by any means.

The Protogen does look similar, but it's not *that* much of a savings. @3.5lbs, five = 17.5lbs for $218.95. 16lbs of Pro-Jym is 215.92.

No dog in the fight (I mix tubs of ON WGS and MC + Liquid Egg Whites), but I always see "way over-priced", but can't make my calculator show it.

Sometimes it is overpriced in the classic way as just too much margin markup on the product. Others, it is overpriced because they product has false label claims or is low quality i.e. ON Gold Standard was 3rd party tested and reported to have an average of 16g protein per scoop instead of 24g as listed and you are in reality paying more than you should for that product.

Also, not disagreeing with you about the Jym or protogen protein costs, just throwing out a different perspective on when people say something is "overpriced"

 

[The_Old_Guy]

ON Gold Standard was 3rd party tested and reported to have an average of 16g protein per scoop instead of 24g as listed and you are in reality paying more than you should for that product.

Got the link? LabDoor grades it B+ at 14 out of 60 for value. 21g per scoop. I think label is 24g.

 

[highlander31]

Got the link? LabDoor grades it B+ at 14 out of 60 for value. 21g per scoop. I think label is 24g.

Ill have to do some digging it was about 6-8 months ago I read the study/write up. Things could have changed since then for the better.

 

[braskibra]

Ill have to do some digging it was about 6-8 months ago I read the study/write up. Things could have changed since then for the better.

pretty sure that was a false test ON usually comes within a few % of label claims on all testing ive seen

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

I just don't like how he promised never to sell out then went and did just that

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

I just don't like how he promised never to sell out then went and did just that

How exactly did he sell out?

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

How exactly did he sell out?

look at all of the pointless products: zma jym, vita jym and all the ways hes promoting hardcore to just sell things and get reviews so more people will buy it.

I respect his education though.
Also on topic MP Wreckage is ruined for me because of the 3g DAA/serv which is stupid IMO. Just riding on the hype train

 

[LiftWithDonuts]

look at all of the pointless products: zma jym, vita jym and all the ways hes promoting hardcore to just sell things and get reviews so more people will buy it. I respect his education though. Also on topic MP Wreckage is ruined for me because of the 3g DAA/serv which is stupid IMO. Just riding on the hype train

That's a good point, I do think that his products are higher quality than most and he sees it as if people are going to spend their money on things like zma or mutis then his products would be a good choice just because he actually puts proper doses in his supps. Like I heard he's gonna be releasing a fish oil soon. I wouldn't take anything besides his pre and post. His protein is meh. Pretty much all of his workouts are solid as well.


The only thing that I've liked from musclepharm was there combat powder. They lost all of my respect with the Arnold line(iron pump is a joke of a preworkout)

 

[carmaf]

The pre is great, imo best on the market. Won't buy Post again, but people need to understand Post is only relevant in context: it's part of the entire Jym system.

Tried ZMA for the first time, and not faulting Jym, but the supp has done absolutely nothing for me almost a month in.

 

[Quads_of_Stee]

That's a good point, I do think that his products are higher quality than most and he sees it as if people are going to spend their money on things like zma or mutis then his products would be a good choice just because he actually puts proper doses in his supps. Like I heard he's gonna be releasing a fish oil soon. I wouldn't take anything besides his pre and post. His protein is meh. Pretty much all of his workouts are solid as well.


The only thing that I've liked from musclepharm was there combat powder. They lost all of my respect with the Arnold line(iron pump is a joke of a preworkout)

the hardcore line protein "diesel" is good though. 15g whey, 10g casein. Musclepharm is transparent on it but I feel they did copy pre/post jym with wreckage and the post formula. Have not tried post jym but want to some time